Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[JLB]

the soul that sins shall die"?

That’s not the law of Moses.

That’s the law of sin and death that was enforced in the Garden.

 

[ProDeo]

Thanks for the Scriptures posted for examination. I would ask, "to understand someone's message, like Paul for instance, would we not want to consider his whole teaching on any given matter?

So please bear with me for just a minute. Let's post more of Paul's words on this topic, and see if we can discern what he means.


12 Let not sin (Transgression of God's Commandments) therefore "reign" in your mortal body, that ye should "obey it" in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither "yield ye" your members (This would be our feet/walk, what we look at, what we think about, what comes out of our mouth, Yes?) as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: (So how does the Bible define Sin?) but "yield yourselves" unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members (This would be our feet/walk, what we look at, what we think about, what comes out of our mouth, Yes?) as "instruments of righteousness" unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

So what does Paul mean here. "not under the Law"? Didn't Paul teach you and I that

Eph. 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who "were dead in trespasses and sins"; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

So then, if I'm dead in Trespasses and Sins, am I not "Under the Law"? doesn't the Law say, "The wages of Sin is death", or in another place, "the soul that sins shall die"? But these men Paul speaks to have repented and turned to God, Yes? They have been forgiven their past sins, and are no longer "Dead in trespasses and sins". They are no longer "under the Law" that held them captive to "Death". Sin/death no longer has dominion "OVER" them. They are no longer "UNDER" this Law.

So now Paul asks them the question that you posted.

15 What then? shall we sin, (continue in tresspasses and sins, continue to transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, (Dead in Tresspasses and Sins) but under grace? (Alive from the Dead) God forbid.

Isn't Paul saying, NO ProDeo and Studyman! we shall not continue in Sin, just because we are no longer Dead in trespasses and sins, but alive by the Grace of God?

And now Paul goes on to explain why this is.

16 Know ye not, (ProDeo and Studyman,) that to whom ye "yield yourselve" servants to obey, "his servants ye are" to whom "ye obey"; whether of sin (Still) unto death, or "of obedience" unto righteousness?

Isn't Paul saying that if I still "yield my members" as instruments of unrighteousness, (This would be our feet/walk, what we look at, what we think about, what comes out of our mouth, Yes?) that this behavior still brings death? That if I yield myself to obey the doctrines and philosophies of this world's religious system, who clearly transgresses God's Commandments by their own traditions, I fall back "under the Law" and I am again, "dead in Sins and Trespasses".

but Paul points out the difference between the Body of the Christ "of the bible", and "the course of this world".


17 But God be thanked, that ye were "the servants of sin", but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (That we Yield ourselves to God, and our body as instruments of Righteousness unto God)

18 Being then made free from sin, "ye became" "the servants of righteousness".

My friend, don't listen to this world's religions. They are seductive, lots of people walk in their path, and "many" who "come in Christ's Name" promote their traditions. But if you are really seeking to know God, read the Scriptures for yourself, and you will find what we found today, that being "under the law" doesn't mean "Yielding oneself a servant to obey God", it means held captive to sins and trespasses.



We were taught this by this world's religions since our youth. But if you you read the bible for yourself, in faith and obedience, you will find that it was the Same Spirit of Christ who taught in the Law and Prophets, as it was in the Jesus "of the Bible" who exposed the corrupt preachers who HE called in Matt. 5, "Them of old time".

Consider your referenced scripture above.

Matt. 5: 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Now this world's religious system has preached to you and me since our youth, that Jesus is talking about God and Moses, when HE says "them of Old Time". And that HE is "Expanding" or bring other laws that God and Moses didn't teach about. This is not true. He is speaking about the Preachers who led God's People astray, by omitting that weightier matters of the Law, matters HE inspired to be written, but was rejected by the preachers of old time.

He is renewing His Teaching that the "Them of old time" had omitted;

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Consider:

Lev. 19: 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

In every case in Matt. 5, when Jesus says, "but I say", you will find HIS same teaching that HE gave to us, as reported by Moses and the Prophets.

If you are truly seeking to know the God of the Bible, do the work and SEEK Him, not through the internet, or popular religious sects of this world, but the the Holy scriptures that Paul said were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

Thank you @Studyman

One of the answers is already in the Scripture I posted.

Rom 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

Secondly when we are really born again we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit (the promise since Pentecost) and He will change us, we no longer have the desire to sin, now our focus becomes to please God by obedience as we grow and produce fruits.

Matt 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

--

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Definitely the new covenant.

The OT Israelite's did not have the Holy Spirit, except the prophets of God of course.

God bless you Studyman.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Let's all take a deep breath and try to get along.

That said I pray that this thread will be uplifting to us all.

To the LORD be all the glory .
The Truth of the LORD is uplifting to the souls of the sheep .
From every God inspired warning to every promise , them words are good meat to the sheep .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Or we just share what we believe and leave it at that. It's not like we will make anyone believe the same as we do once they have their mind set. And we don't want guests that may not be Christians to see us acting like the rest of the world.

I think the way it's set up here is we can discuses our beliefs just do it in a dignified manner.

harsh and ugly comments are what need to be corrected .
but what do you think paul meant when he wrote that we all need to be of the same judgment and mindset .
Its the doctrine . We are not entitled to our own opinions that are CONTRARY in any
way to sound doctrine . That is divisions . And if any teaches contrary to the doctrine
that is division . For far too long we been caught up in the wrong version of what men with an agenda
has taught us is divisions and sought the wrong kind of unity as a result .
But of course ugly attitudes do need to be ceased .
Doctrine matters . what one beleives and does matters . It matters to GOD thus it should matter to us .
Here is the key
Let anything that is said HONOR GOD , CHRIST . if in any way it twists His truth
it must be corrected fast .

 

[Manasseh]

The Bible emphasizes the importance of speech, highlighting that our words can bring life or death (Proverbs 18:21). Verses like Ephesians 4:29 encourage us to use speech that builds others up, while Colossians 4:6 advises that our conversation should always be gracious and seasoned with salt.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

That’s not the law of Moses.

That’s the law of sin and death that was enforced in the Garden.

Here is the glorious Law of Christ JESUS . I told you that you shall DIE in your Sins
for if you BELEIVE NOT that I AM HE then you shall die in your sins .
The end of sin IS DEATH
The Gift of eternal life , IS ONLY IN AND BY JESUS THE CHRIST .
And we both know he is no minstir of any sin .

 

[JLB]

Here is the glorious Law of Christ JESUS . I told you that you shall DIE in your Sins
for if you BELEIVE NOT that I AM HE then you shall die in your sins .
The end of sin IS DEATH
The Gift of eternal life , IS ONLY IN AND BY JESUS THE CHRIST .
And we both know he is no minstir of any sin .

Amen. The law of Christ was seen in the garden.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:16-17



Here is what the devil teaches …


Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4


Go ahead Eve (church), disobey God, you will never die… because OSAS

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

The Bible emphasizes the importance of speech, highlighting that our words can bring life or death (Proverbs 18:21). Verses like Ephesians 4:29 encourage us to use speech that builds others up, while Colossians 4:6 advises that our conversation should always be gracious and seasoned with salt.

Now who gonna argue with that my friend.
But i would like to add that any conversation we have , no matter how kind and loving it seems ,
that contradicts the words of GOD , of His Christ , is a death sentence and works much damage
unto the people .
Let every word spoken be in agreement to THE TRUTH of the HOLY GOD
And one more reminder as well
a question .
Where are the grave men . examine our leaders
against Christ and the apostles . They were quite sincere , quite grave
and sure did speak the truth , even by warnings of a rod to those who would not repent of sin .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Amen. The law of Christ was seen in the garden.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:16-17



Here is what the devil teaches …


Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4


Go ahead Eve (church), disobey God, you will never die… because OSAS

Spot on right my friend . That is exactly what the serpent teaches .
GOD warned them they would die in the day they ate of the tree .
serpent says , OH surely ye shall not die .
JESUS said YE shall die in your sins if ye BELIEVE NOT that I AM HE
serpent says , OH surely if one beleives not they will not die , for GOD is love he says .
The devil loves to twist the truth . And to the suprise of many
HE can SAY GOD IS LOVE but he gonna twist that love to make the path very broad . omitting even in the need
to beleive ON JESUS . HE is slick . but the sheep dont heed him they HEED and BELIEVE GOD .
John knew this . If any believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON he calls GOD a LIAR
the serpent says , OH DONT JUDGE you dont know their heart , they know him if they did good works . HE is a liar .

 

[JLB]

Let every word spoken be in agreement to THE TRUTH of the HOLY GOD

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12


When God Himself begins to send a delusion people gonna be in TROUBLE.


NOW is the time to repent !

 

[JLB]

Spot on right my friend . That is exactly what the serpent teaches .
GOD warned them they would die in the day they ate of the tree .
serpent says , OH surely ye shall not die .
JESUS said YE shall die in your sins if ye BELIEVE NOT that I AM HE
serpent says , OH surely if one beleives not they will not die , for GOD is love he says .
The devil loves to twist the truth . And to the suprise of many
HE can SAY GOD IS LOVE but he gonna twist that love to make the path very broad . omitting even in the need
to beleive ON JESUS . HE is slick . but the sheep dont heed him they HEED and BELIEVE GOD .
John knew this . If any believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON he calls GOD a LIAR
the serpent says , OH DONT JUDGE you dont know their heart , they know him if they did good works . HE is a liar .

They like Calvinism and OSAS because it tickles the ears.

 

[JLB]

Spot on right my friend . That is exactly what the serpent teaches .

Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4

This is the lie.

This is Calvinism.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Amen. The law of Christ was seen in the garden.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:16-17



Here is what the devil teaches …


Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4


Go ahead Eve (church), disobey God, you will never die… because OSAS

The serpent is a liar indeed . But very wise and deceives by the carnal mind those whose desires are for the flesh .
Or other acryonms as you stated .
But is that what paul or CHRIST said , or even peter , or jude .
they warned the church ABOUT leaving its first faith , its first estate .
THEY warned the church YE must CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS
otherwise ye shall also be cut off .
They warned FOR JESUS had warned . But he who endures to the END shall be saved .
IF a man continues Not in me HE is cast out .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4

This is the lie.

This is Calvinism.

which it and many others are led now to the ulitmate lie that joins all the deceived as one within christendom
with the deceived false religoins , to merge now as one under what all beleive is LOVE
and of GOD . To preach upmost rebellion to GOD , CHRIST and to lead this unified
peoples to make war against the sheep . Yeah , its coming and even now it grows .
A sheep cannot even enter into these inclusive interfaith churches
to speak biblical truth without being labeled a hater who knows not love or GOD . and it will get worse
till words become laws and actions against any and all who did not conform
to the image of what the serpent sold this lost world as LOVE and GOD . Times are highly deceptive in this last hour .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4

This is the lie.

This is Calvinism.

Yet they did .
and the next step was
because the works of cain were evil and his brothers righteous , MURDER .
marvel not if the world hates us . And marvel not when the TIME cometh
that those who support our being rounded up , killed
will beleive they do GODS will of love for peace n safety in this world .
Many are already in some form being coaxed right into the lie through means
of a false love and its solution for interfaith to have peace n safety in the world .
Take note of two things and it becomes real easy to see just how fast time is running out .
This so called inclusive diverse broad interfaith lets be one common ground
HAS done and is doing the work of anti christ . HOW SO , did you see what its leaders
told the false religoins . THEY are all children of GOD and are coming to HIM their own way .
And what is the so called solution it hollers this can attain . PEACE N SAFETY .
and now a word from long long ago .
FOR WHEN they shall say peace n safety , THEN cometh sudden destruction upon them all .
They beleive that the mission of GOD is to bring world peace
Forgetting that JESUS never came to bring peace on earth .
But what they also dont realize is , ANOTHER ONE WAS PROPHESIED TO BRING PEACE . We darn sure
dont wanna follow his peace or him .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12


When God Himself begins to send a delusion people gonna be in TROUBLE.


NOW is the time to repent !

Who did not what . BELEIVE THE TRUTH .
the very TRUTH whereby they could have been saved .
I see a nasty delusion right now increasing . The sheep wont heed it
but i sure see many peoples that do heed this so called solution , this lie
they beleive can bring peace n safety to this world and to the middle east .
Again does that sound familiar .
First JESUS made it very clear , DO you THINK i came to bring PEACE ON EARTH
No but rather division . rather odd the things they consider division they remove in order to attain peace .
Like the opposite of what JESUS would have done .
And rather odd they beleive this so called big lovey do path , this merger , this finding common ground
will lead them TO attain world peace n safety .
And yet .....................WHO was it written would come BY PEACE
even make a covenenant and destroy through peace . IT WASNT JESUS . IT was ANTI CHRIST .
these peoples are in deadly dire danger . ITS time for an exodus my friend
out of wicked places and into the scriptures and fast . An entrodus back into the bible to learn .

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

That’s not the law of Moses.

That’s the law of sin and death that was enforced in the Garden.

the law of sin and death is included in the law of moses

1. It proved all have sinned and fall short
2. The curse for not following it as required was death.

 

[Red Baker]

@JLB

They like Calvinism and OSAS because it tickles the ears.

I'll be back later to discuss your few words. I do not teach OSAS; but do believe the scriptures and teach..."Once Loved Always Loved."

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

the law of sin and death is included in the law of moses

1. It proved all have sinned and fall short
2. The curse for not following it as required was death.

It can be seen . The end is sin IS death .
And even the law , the prophets pointed to CHRIST .
But i see another law warning , that is of the flesh
and yet many sure seem to be following that law that it calls LOVE but is NOT LOVE .
Many seem to be following the voice of one who cries to the masses
this is the love , this is the GOD , let us be as one and attain world peace n safety .
Come ye , it cries , and drink of the stolen waters , the waters of the cisterns of men
and of the love of the world and be ye one and find common ground .
But what they do not know
is the voice IS NOT OF GOD , ITS LOVE is NOT of GOD
its plan for world peace IS NOT OF GOD
but is of another . who BY PEACE shall destroy many .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

the law of sin and death is included in the law of moses

1. It proved all have sinned and fall short
2. The curse for not following it as required was death.

IT sure was death . For under the law one could be put to death by two or three witnesses .
Rather odd though
that i see many now who love a lie , love death
and have forgotten
that IF a man could be put to death under the law
HOW MUCH SORER a punishement awaits those who TROD THE SON under foot .
MANY love this idea of this broad path , this sin accpeting path , this unbelief accepting path .
Dont we know what occurs
to those who made and loved a lie . THE LAKE OF FIRE will burn harshly .
Lets remember that the next time one tries to say
Lets all find common ground , let us be one
let us merge as one peoples with all religoins and the world
to bring peace and safety on earth . This generation has BOUGHT a lie .
The false religoins always had bought a lie , BUT CHRISTENDOM , man this is not looking good .