civic
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Did Jesus Shed His Humanity at the Ascension?
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Rockson
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Seth said : What about this strange statement in John 21:12 None venture to Ask Him "who are you? because they knew it was him. Why did they want to ask? I feel there is a need expressed, but but they don-t venture to ask
My Response: So they're all out there 100 yards away out on the water and Jesus called out to them to throw the net in the water on a certain side. They did. Caught the fish. Peter in his heart KNEW this had to be the Lord, and thus he said to those on the boat with him, "It's the Lord!" No difference then what some of our reaction my be. Look Jesus told us to do this one other time a few years before and filled the nets!
Nobody can do this but Jesus! Thus he dove into the water and swam to shore. The disciples left in the boat allowed their minds to battle to a degree over what was self evident and obvious....that this had to be Jesus but they also knew in their hearts it would be looked upon as faithless and unbelieving..... I mean you can appreciate correct that they didn't want to call out to shore and yell out a stupid question...."Who are you!" and Jesus tell them later something like ,
"Shouldn't it had been obvious who I was? Come on how many others of anyone has told you to throw your nets on a certain side of your boat and given you a great catch???"
So their natural minds were screaming at them that's just got to be the Lord for the same reason Peter believed it was but stupid doubt and unbelief was knocking on the door of their minds as well questioning well is it? Is it really! It seems like it must be but.....but, but, but......Well again if they called out here's another thing Jesus might have said.....(I'm using modern lingo)
"Will you guys give your head a shake and stop being so slow to believe at something which should be obvious! Good grief you just had a miracle take place with your great catch of fish! Who else could it had been except me!"
So they dare not ask him or it might better help you to think of it this way they dared not call out to him the question who he was. No way did they want to open the door to have Jesus reproof them for what should have been self evident. So once they finally got on the beach yes they saw Jesus and his appearance was exactly as they knew him.
My Response: So they're all out there 100 yards away out on the water and Jesus called out to them to throw the net in the water on a certain side. They did. Caught the fish. Peter in his heart KNEW this had to be the Lord, and thus he said to those on the boat with him, "It's the Lord!" No difference then what some of our reaction my be. Look Jesus told us to do this one other time a few years before and filled the nets!
Nobody can do this but Jesus! Thus he dove into the water and swam to shore. The disciples left in the boat allowed their minds to battle to a degree over what was self evident and obvious....that this had to be Jesus but they also knew in their hearts it would be looked upon as faithless and unbelieving..... I mean you can appreciate correct that they didn't want to call out to shore and yell out a stupid question...."Who are you!" and Jesus tell them later something like ,
"Shouldn't it had been obvious who I was? Come on how many others of anyone has told you to throw your nets on a certain side of your boat and given you a great catch???"
So their natural minds were screaming at them that's just got to be the Lord for the same reason Peter believed it was but stupid doubt and unbelief was knocking on the door of their minds as well questioning well is it? Is it really! It seems like it must be but.....but, but, but......Well again if they called out here's another thing Jesus might have said.....(I'm using modern lingo)
"Will you guys give your head a shake and stop being so slow to believe at something which should be obvious! Good grief you just had a miracle take place with your great catch of fish! Who else could it had been except me!"
So they dare not ask him or it might better help you to think of it this way they dared not call out to him the question who he was. No way did they want to open the door to have Jesus reproof them for what should have been self evident. So once they finally got on the beach yes they saw Jesus and his appearance was exactly as they knew him.
sethproton
Active member
what is the verse in John 21 that says his appearance was how they remembered him. Yes they knew it was Him, but How, not by voice or sight and if he looked the same why did they want to verify?
Handaan
Active member
Most of us believe that Jesus will be God forever. But a lot of us just can't believe that Jesus will also be a man forever. The Bible is clear that Jesus rose physically from the dead in the same body that had died.
See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” Luke 24:39
And then ascended into heaven as a man in his physical body.
And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, the was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. Acts 1:9
And he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. 51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven. Luke 24:50–51
It would make no sense for him to have done this if he was simply going to ditch his body and stop being man when he arrived in heaven.
That Christ continued being man with a physical body after his ascension is confirmed by the fact that when he returns, it will be as a man in his body. He will return physically.
Philippians 3:21 says that at his second coming, Christ “will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of his glory.” This verse is clear that Jesus still has his body. It is a glorified body, which Paul calls, “the body of his glory.” And when Christ returns, he will still have it because this verse says that he will transform our bodies to be like his. Both Jesus and all Christians will then continue living together in their bodies forever, because the resurrection body cannot die.
So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 1 Corinthians 15:42
Since it is eternal.
For we know that if the tent that is lour earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 Corinthians 5:1
See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” Luke 24:39
And then ascended into heaven as a man in his physical body.
And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, the was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. Acts 1:9
And he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. 51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven. Luke 24:50–51
It would make no sense for him to have done this if he was simply going to ditch his body and stop being man when he arrived in heaven.
That Christ continued being man with a physical body after his ascension is confirmed by the fact that when he returns, it will be as a man in his body. He will return physically.
Philippians 3:21 says that at his second coming, Christ “will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of his glory.” This verse is clear that Jesus still has his body. It is a glorified body, which Paul calls, “the body of his glory.” And when Christ returns, he will still have it because this verse says that he will transform our bodies to be like his. Both Jesus and all Christians will then continue living together in their bodies forever, because the resurrection body cannot die.
So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 1 Corinthians 15:42
Since it is eternal.
For we know that if the tent that is lour earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 Corinthians 5:1
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sethproton
Active member
We believe, like you said, this body will be taken down/destroyed. Bible says like a tent ad replaced with a temple from heave
For Jesus that happened when He died, and resurrected, His earthly body was gone out of the tomb. It had been taken down and destroyred not fix into a new body
Rockson
Well-known member
Good grief Seth.....that was already established in Lk 24:39
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” Lk 24: 39
Sorry but that should have already established IN YOU that if you saw Jesus you would see him in the body he said he had.....and what was that? A flesh and bone body!
So what exactly do you want Seth? If he appeared in seven different chapters every time God has got to have it recorded over and over and over that he had a flesh and bone body? I think rather the Lord would say I've told you what my body was and I was very clear about it. If you're not going to accept that then there's nothing else I have to say. (at least I think that's what the Lord would say)
Rockson
Well-known member
Then you're rejecting what Jesus said very clearly.....touch my body he said to Thomas....put your finger into my wounds and he called that body flesh and bone. So you're saying they weren't REAL the wounds but merely an illusion. So you have Jesus being disengeious saying things which weren't true. If that's what you're choosing to stay with then I guess there's nothing more can be said. I release you to God in this matter.
Rockson
Well-known member
Amen to that.
sethproton
Active member
Luke 24:39 is a a different story each incident was different
So no one story does not prove another story. proof has to come from each for what was actually said
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sethproton
Active member
John says about His second coming Now we don't know what he looks like, but when we see him as He is, we will e transformed to look like Him
John had seen Jesus. Why didn't he know?
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sethproton
Active member
1Jo 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
The verse states we don't know what we will be, Then John says he as never seen Jesus as He is, Why? How does John claim that, after having so many post resurrection visits with Christ. He doesn't know what jesus looks like?
civic
Well-known member
yes its denying the bodily resurrection the heart of the gospel. no body means no gospel means no salvation, no faith. its the trickle down effect.
civic
Well-known member
no one has gone to heaven to see Him as He is in heaven is all that means. John was on this side of heaven when he penned those words in 1 John.
even better than that John years later writes the book of revelation and describes Jesus as a man( the son of man ) in heaven, with a real body.
He has hair, feet, a face, eyes, hands, mouth etc....... all body parts.
so now that trumps your out of context isolated pet verse from 1 John 3.
sethproton
Active member
Behind all this is a thought that the eventual goal of the incarnation was for Jesus to be eternally like us,I belive that is what you are supporting.
That was not the goal, it was for us to be eternally like Him. So that after his death and resurection in eternity, we will be revealed as the sons of God. Romans 8
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civic
Well-known member
And humans never become non human . Being human like I pointed out in Genesis was first being created with a human body that houses the spirit/ soul. So we remain human like Jesus throughout all eternity. Jesus is the eternal “ son of man” . Forever God incarnate “ in the flesh”.
hope this helps!!!
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sethproton
Active member
It makes no sense to you because you may have built a false foundation and are standing on it. So whatver does not match your foundation is considered a lie
that foundation is that Christ is still a man
civic
Well-known member
wow calling the foundation of the Christian faith ( the Resurrection )once and for all delivered to the saints false by denying Jesus is a man. Denying the bodily Resurrection is denying the gospel itself, the very core tenant of Christianity.
sethproton
Active member
what is the nature of the resurrection, to lead the human race into a new life.
civic
Well-known member
no the nature of the resurrection is physical, bodily where there is no more death, sin or the devil. Believers will put on immortally, incorruptible and imperishable- all things that have to do with our present bodies due to the fall being reversed and restored.
Rockson
Well-known member
And I'd say seeing him as he is has to do with seeing him in his full statue of maturity and wisdom. We see,
"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, (or a mature man) unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Eph 4:13
That's what I think it means when we see him as he is.....in other words we get the true perspective of what he is in teaching or wisdom. At this point in time people struggle in life with just what truth is.....we have different denominations etc.....we see through a glass darkly now....but then all will see the exact truth seeing God as he is.
1 Cor 13 says the same....when that which is perfect is come. In other words seeing him as he is has nothing to do with Jesus physical appearance but we see him as he is in truth. So our good friend Seth here is trying to think it's all about what Jesus appearance is.
1 John 3:23 has nothing to do with that. We already know what his appearance is as we know it was what Thomas and the other disciples saw after his resurrection. Luke 24:39 That didn't change nor ever will. Sad that some refuse to see this.
