Harpadzo, better make sure you're ready

[Johann]

Sorry that is nonsense

Read this read that is not answering objections.
If you have access to those those resources so why don't you do the work and post how you think those resources address my objections instead of trying to send me on a wild goose chase.

In any case I quoted scripture and you refuse to deal with it





you can post whatever you want but if I post scripture by way of rebuttal, sending me on a wild goose chase is not answering those objections

aside from which if you post something the onus is on you to support it not on me to hunt for answers which may not exist for you


What responses?

You did not post a single verse which actually mention a pretrib rapture seven years before Christs second advent


You did not address the fact the only verse which actually mentions a rapture has it transpiring at the second advent along with the resurrection of the dead

and you also did not address two verses which either show saints in the tribulation or coming from out of it having been slain.

In other words you had zero proof and no answers to objections

Somebody is watching you @TomL and it ain't me.

 

[TomL]

Somebody is watching you @TomL and it ain't me.

And?

additionally someone may be watching you

 

[Johann]

But he did in fact so choose and I in turn chose to respond showing he has zero proof to provide and no answers for the objections put to him.

What you are doing is hounding a family, a godly family online-there will be consequences.

 

[TomL]

What you are doing is hounding a family, online-there will be consequences.

Hogwash

I have every right to question his claims, just as much as anyone else has the right to question anyone else

 

[Johann]

Hogwash

I have every right to question his claims, just as much as anyone else has the right to question anyone else

But you don't answer specific questions-in other words, you want to interrogate others, but you don't allow others to interrogate you-what is your vocation in real time?

 

[Johann]

But you don't answer specific questions-in other words, you want to interrogate others, but you don't allow others to interrogate you-what is your vocation in real time?

--and off he goes to another thread-

 

[TomL]

But you don't answer specific questions-in other words, you want to interrogate others, but you don't allow others to interrogate you-what is your vocation in real time?

What specific questions?

Your claim is a false one

He did not ask any questions

He posted some verses which did not state what he believes and suggested I read this book and go to that website

as if the onus was not on him to answer objections and somehow became mine

 

[Johann]

What specific questions?

Your claim is a false one

He did not ask any questions

He posted some verses which did not state what he believes and suggested I read this book and go to that website

as if the onus was not on him to answer objections and somehow became mine

This is what I have observed, you are so quick to give a response but won't answer questions directed to you-because you are roaming from thread to thread---01.33 AM here-what is your time there?

 

[TomL]

That's what I have observed, you are so quick to give a response but won't answer questions directed to you-because you are roaming from thread to thread---01.33 AM here-what is your time there?

Give examples don't just make empty claims

19:25

 

[Johann]

Give examples don't just make empty claims

19:25

Very easy-I asked you what time is it there by you? AM or PM?

 

[SteveB]

Very easy-I asked you what time is it there by you? AM or PM?

19:25 is 7:25 PM, in military time.
As the post was posted at 4:23 pm my time, he's east coast time zone.

 

[TomL]

Very easy-I asked you what time is it there by you? AM or PM?

and you were answered

19:25

in other words 7:25 PM

 

[SteveB]

The Revelation Prophecy Timeline

With the book of Revelation as a guide, Dr. David Jeremiah presents a timeline of the End Times and explains how we can view each day through the lens of prophecy.

davidjeremiah.blog

 

[TomL]

The Revelation Prophecy Timeline

With the book of Revelation as a guide, Dr. David Jeremiah presents a timeline of the End Times and explains how we can view each day through the lens of prophecy.

davidjeremiah.blog

No pre trib rapture

What we have instead is the resurrection of the dead and the catching up of the living at Christ's second coming

1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 (ESV) — 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

which is after the tribulation

 

[SteveB]

No pre trib rapture

Keep telling yourself that.
You give no reason for people to live a godly life.

What we have instead is the resurrection of the dead and the catching up of the living at Christ's second coming

1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 (ESV) — 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

which is after the tribulation

Luk 21:34-36 WEB 34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Why warn us to escape the things coming on the earth, and that it'll catch them by surprise?

 

[TomL]

Keep telling yourself that.
You give no reason for people to live a godly life.

Sorry one does not need to hold to pretrib rapture to live a godly life

Luk 21:34-36 WEB 34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Why warn us to escape the things coming on the earth, and that it'll catch them by surprise?

And who told you that refers to the rapture when it appears to speak of the visible second coming rather than a secret invisible coming

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Keep telling yourself that.
You give no reason for people to live a godly life.

So when people see the man of lawlessness revealed and realize there was no pre-trib rapture, does that meant they will stop leading a Godly life and start getting drunk and carousing?

 

[SteveB]

Sorry one does not need to hold to pretrib rapture to live a godly life

Yet you fail to explain whynot being concerned about being right with God beforehand is important.
Mid/post-trib let's us wait, without any concern, yet Jesus warns us to be ready for an undefined moment, lest we're left on a world of sheer madness and chaos.

And who told you that refers to the rapture when it appears to speak of the visible second coming rather than a secret invisible coming

You continue to ignore my constant, and repeatedly stated point...

There is no secret invisible coming.
It's been made known since Isaiah wrote Isaiah 26:19-21, Jesus told us:

Luk 21:34-36 WEB 34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

And Paul told us

1Th 4:13-18 WEB 13 But we don’t want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those who have fallen asleep, so that you don’t grieve like the rest, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first, 17 then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

So, you have imposed your ignorance on these passages.

So...
What....
Exactly.....
Will it take.....
For you to grasp the concept that there is no secret invisible coming of Jesus?


He's coming in the air and we will meet him in the clouds.
Only those who are in Christ shall experience this.

When Jesus comes back to the earth, he'll set foot on the Mt. of Olives, and split the mountain.
The entire human race who is alive at that time will be aware of it.

Two very different events, with different elements.

 

[SteveB]

So when people see the man of lawlessness revealed and realize there was no pre-trib rapture, does that meant they will stop leading a Godly life and start getting drunk and carousing?

Ever actually read that entire narrative?

That day won't come until there's as apotasia.
2Th 2:3 OGNT
μή mē miy not
τις tis tiys one
ὑμᾶς hymas iymas you
ἐξαπατήσῃ exapatēsē eksapatiysiy to deceive
κατὰ kata kata according to
μηδένα mēdena miyðena nothing
τρόπον tropon tropon way.
ὅτι hoti otiy since
ἐὰν ean ean if
μὴ mē miy not
ἔλθῃ elthē elθiy to arrive
ἡ hē iy the
ἀποστασία apostasia apostasiya apostasy
πρῶτον prōton proton first
καὶ kai ke and
ἀποκαλυφθῇ apokalyphthē apokaliyfθiy to reveal
ὁ ho o the
ἄνθρωπος anthrōpos anθropos a human

τῆς tēs tiys the
ἀνομίας anomias anomiyas lawlessness,
ὁ ho o the
υἱὸς huios iyos son
τῆς tēs tiys the
ἀπωλείας apōleias apoliyas destruction,


So, I'd say that you have it backwards.

 

[Johann]

Ever actually read that entire narrative?

That day won't come until there's as apotasia.
2Th 2:3 OGNT
μή mē miy not
τις tis tiys one
ὑμᾶς hymas iymas you
ἐξαπατήσῃ exapatēsē eksapatiysiy to deceive
κατὰ kata kata according to
μηδένα mēdena miyðena nothing
τρόπον tropon tropon way.
ὅτι hoti otiy since
ἐὰν ean ean if
μὴ mē miy not
ἔλθῃ elthē elθiy to arrive
ἡ hē iy the
ἀποστασία apostasia apostasiya apostasy
πρῶτον prōton proton first
καὶ kai ke and
ἀποκαλυφθῇ apokalyphthē apokaliyfθiy to reveal
ὁ ho o the
ἄνθρωπος anthrōpos anθropos a human

τῆς tēs tiys the
ἀνομίας anomias anomiyas lawlessness,
ὁ ho o the
υἱὸς huios iyos son
τῆς tēs tiys the
ἀπωλείας apōleias apoliyas destruction,


So, I'd say that you have it backwards.

This is the way to do it! Now you are speaking glossalia!