The Eternal Son
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Dizerner
Active Member
The debate doesn't even start until after the 10 minute mark...
It's literally packed with information and argumentation from both sides.
If that were true, you would be a very poor communicator, right?
After all, I learn what you know by what you post...
Bluster. You never follow through, you're all clouds and no rain.
No one said it shouldn't. Maybe you should stop just assuming things about your opponents.
Sure, I could pick up a phone book and say it's the Word of God to me, but might not we assume in general that God has been attempting to guide his people?
Might not we assume that God's inspired documents would not have overt falsehoods, contradictory doctrines, sketchy origins, or blasphemous descriptions of God?
I don't see anything wrong with that assumption, even if I would ultimately agree the canon is self-verifying and can only be known by personal revelation from God.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Okay. Did you notice the "great swelling words". The "fawning" over one another means what to you?
Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Notice your statement concerning "both sides". It is nothing more than a false dichotomy. A false choice between "two sides".
Shallow. Nonsensical. We have talked very little about this "VAST" subject.
Sure I do. I'm not going to beg you actually deal with the issue. I offer. You ignore. We can come to terms if you do more than ignore. We can have a peer based discussion on the subject.
Was this a part of the discussion in the video? It certainly didn't "start" with it.
When YOU and they CLAIM acceptances was "early"......
Pray tell, how does personal revelation have anything to do with that specific claim?
Humm.... I'll wait. This is my last response here. I'll start a reply in a different thread.....
Greetings @Duane
You are holding to a false teaching (no pun intended) that it is impossible to explain logically in order to make biblical sense. But, more than that, you are denying the deity of Jesus Christ, being the I AM THAT I AM (which I'm sure you have no desire to do so, but you are) by using the unscriptural term.......... "eternally" begotten, that we have no biblical record of such a thing.
Let me ask you a question: We ask: can an object begin and not begun? No, impossible. The saying within itself is most absurd. Why do not people consider this, and understand it? Acts 28:25-27 is the answer.
The Eternal Sonship is a dogma that is discredited logically by self contradiction. To contend that Jesus was eternally begotten is a manifest contradiction of term.
Following creeds instead of God's testimony of what is the truth, will take the power of reasoning away from you and force you to come their ways.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Good morning @Red Baker,
Unless I am mistaken, you are off on vacation and possibly will not see this reply.
I had posted this in this very subject and having read your reply to Duane felt I should reply to you with a reply that comes from a source that is very within keeping of yours on predestination... Got Questions.
I had been searching eternal generation. Not for what I found but I had one of those lightbulb moments, but I did find this and
lets see why you will find fault with it.
What is the doctrine of eternal generation and is it biblical?
Answer
The doctrine of eternal generation harkens back to the early stages of the Christian church. This doctrine, along with the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit, form the basis for the complete doctrine of the Trinity. This doctrine was codified in the Nicene Creed, which is universally accepted as an accurate statement of faith in both Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. Furthermore, this doctrine has also been included in such Reformation confessions of faith as the Belgic Confession (Articles X & XI) and the Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter II.3). These two confessions stand as the doctrinal standard for many Reformed and Presbyterian churches worldwide.
When discussing the Trinity, we are immediately confronted with the fact that it is a doctrine clouded in mystery. As finite, created beings, we will never be able to fully comprehend the doctrine of the Trinity; it is simply beyond our ability to fully comprehend. All human analogies used to explain the Trinity break down at some level. So, we need humility as we try to explain these things. We should not attempt to go further than the Scriptures warrant. Every heresy concerning the Trinity has arisen out of an attempt to explain the inexplicable.
With that said, let’s review what is commonly believed within evangelical circles in regards to the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity makes four basic assertions:
1. There is one and only one true and living God.
2. This one God eternally exists in three Persons—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
3. These three Persons are completely equal in attributes, each sharing the same divine nature.
4. While each Person is fully and completely God, the Persons are not identical.
These four claims are universally accepted by all professing Christians whether Roman Catholic or Protestant. Each of these four claims can be defended with Scripture. If we accept these as true, then we should be able to compare the doctrine of eternal generation against these and see if it holds up.
The doctrine of eternal generation essentially teaches that God the Father eternally and by necessity generates or begets God the Son in such a way that the substance (the divine essence) of God is not divided. In other words, there is a communication of the whole, indivisible substance of the Godhead so that God the Son is the exact representation (or express image) of God the Father. There is still one divine essence that eternally exists in two persons through eternal generation. Reformed theologian Louis Berkhof states the doctrine of eternal generation in this way:
It is that eternal and necessary act of the first person in the Trinity, whereby He, within the divine Being, is the ground of a second personal subsistence like His own, and puts this second person in possession of the whole divine essence, without any division, alienation, or change (Systematic Theology, Eerdmans, 1938, p. 94).
So, we see that eternal generation is an act performed by the First Person of the Trinity. Furthermore, this act by the First Person is necessarily and eternally performed. Finally, the result of this act is the generation of the Second Person of the Trinity in such a way that the entire divine essence is communicated from the Father to the Son.
Because of this act of eternal generation, the relational terms Father and Son are used to identify the First and Second Persons of the Trinity. The Father eternally generates the Son, and the Son (having no beginning or end) is eternally generated by the Father. This is similar to human generation (which, we note, is neither eternal nor necessary) in that human fathers also “generate” or “beget” human sons in their own image.
The doctrine of eternal generation is sometimes attacked on the basis that the idea of begetting implies a creation in time or that it suggests an ontological dependence. In response, we note that all human analogies regarding the Trinity eventually break down, so we can’t carry our analogies too far. Also, the qualifiers eternally and necessarily should remove any concerns of a temporal or subordinate relationship between the Father and the Son. The qualifier eternal removes this relationship from the constraints of time and space; there was no beginning, and will be no end to the generation of the Son from the Father. The qualifier necessarily removes any ontological dependence between the Father and the Son; the Son must be generated from the Father, and the Father must generate the Son.
(Of course, Got Questions got their predestined bias into this so I'll leave the following paragraph for those of you who are.
I myself do not subscribe to this (following) as they present things)
The terms Father and Son do more than analogize the relationship between the First and Second Person of the Trinity; they also help explain a theological truth. There is a hierarchical and functional order being described here—one that defines the activity of Father and Son in the economy of creation and salvation. The Father speaks the universe into existence, and the Son is the agent of that creation. The Father elects the chosen unto salvation, and the Son provides the necessary atonement. The Father sends the Son, and not the other way around. This hierarchy of role and function in no way diminishes the ontological equality between the Father and the Son; they are both essentially God, sharing equally in the full divine essence. So, the terms Father and Son, far from being a mere anthropomorphism, go to the heart of defining this necessary and eternal relationship. As such, the doctrine of eternal generation is clearly in line with our four assertions concerning the Trinity, above.
Is this doctrine supported in Scripture? Consider the following verses:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14)
“No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.” (John 1:18)
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)
“For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.” (John 5:26)
“Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.” (John 14:11)
“That they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” (John 17:21)
“He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.” (Hebrews 1:3)
The thrust of these verses, as they apply to the Trinity, is to suggest that the relationship between Father and Son has existed for all eternity and is grounded in ontological equality. Also worth consideration are the words of the Nicene Creed and the Westminster Confession of Faith as they pertain to eternal generation:
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made. (Nicene Creed)
In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son. (WCF, II.3)
Based on Scripture and the witness of the creeds and confessions, we can be sure that the doctrine of eternal generation is biblical.
We should not expect every believer to have a fully mature grasp of this doctrine. The doctrine of the Trinity—including the doctrine of eternal generation—is the centerpiece of orthodox theology and should be affirmed by every true believer, but it is not a requirement for a true confession of faith. In other words, salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8). As one studies the Christian faith, one will come to a more mature understanding of this doctrine.
civic
Active Member
Thanks for posting this article.Good morning @Red Baker,
Unless I am mistaken, you are off on vacation and possibly will not see this reply.
I had posted this in this very subject and having read your reply to Duane felt I should reply to you with a reply that comes from a source that is very within keeping of yours on predestination... Got Questions.
I had been searching eternal generation. Not for what I found but I had one of those lightbulb moments, but I did find this and
lets see why you will find fault with it.
What is the doctrine of eternal generation and is it biblical?
Answer
The doctrine of eternal generation harkens back to the early stages of the Christian church. This doctrine, along with the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit, form the basis for the complete doctrine of the Trinity. This doctrine was codified in the Nicene Creed, which is universally accepted as an accurate statement of faith in both Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. Furthermore, this doctrine has also been included in such Reformation confessions of faith as the Belgic Confession (Articles X & XI) and the Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter II.3). These two confessions stand as the doctrinal standard for many Reformed and Presbyterian churches worldwide.
When discussing the Trinity, we are immediately confronted with the fact that it is a doctrine clouded in mystery. As finite, created beings, we will never be able to fully comprehend the doctrine of the Trinity; it is simply beyond our ability to fully comprehend. All human analogies used to explain the Trinity break down at some level. So, we need humility as we try to explain these things. We should not attempt to go further than the Scriptures warrant. Every heresy concerning the Trinity has arisen out of an attempt to explain the inexplicable.
With that said, let’s review what is commonly believed within evangelical circles in regards to the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity makes four basic assertions:
1. There is one and only one true and living God.
2. This one God eternally exists in three Persons—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
3. These three Persons are completely equal in attributes, each sharing the same divine nature.
4. While each Person is fully and completely God, the Persons are not identical.
These four claims are universally accepted by all professing Christians whether Roman Catholic or Protestant. Each of these four claims can be defended with Scripture. If we accept these as true, then we should be able to compare the doctrine of eternal generation against these and see if it holds up.
The doctrine of eternal generation essentially teaches that God the Father eternally and by necessity generates or begets God the Son in such a way that the substance (the divine essence) of God is not divided. In other words, there is a communication of the whole, indivisible substance of the Godhead so that God the Son is the exact representation (or express image) of God the Father. There is still one divine essence that eternally exists in two persons through eternal generation. Reformed theologian Louis Berkhof states the doctrine of eternal generation in this way:
It is that eternal and necessary act of the first person in the Trinity, whereby He, within the divine Being, is the ground of a second personal subsistence like His own, and puts this second person in possession of the whole divine essence, without any division, alienation, or change (Systematic Theology, Eerdmans, 1938, p. 94).
So, we see that eternal generation is an act performed by the First Person of the Trinity. Furthermore, this act by the First Person is necessarily and eternally performed. Finally, the result of this act is the generation of the Second Person of the Trinity in such a way that the entire divine essence is communicated from the Father to the Son.
Because of this act of eternal generation, the relational terms Father and Son are used to identify the First and Second Persons of the Trinity. The Father eternally generates the Son, and the Son (having no beginning or end) is eternally generated by the Father. This is similar to human generation (which, we note, is neither eternal nor necessary) in that human fathers also “generate” or “beget” human sons in their own image.
The doctrine of eternal generation is sometimes attacked on the basis that the idea of begetting implies a creation in time or that it suggests an ontological dependence. In response, we note that all human analogies regarding the Trinity eventually break down, so we can’t carry our analogies too far. Also, the qualifiers eternally and necessarily should remove any concerns of a temporal or subordinate relationship between the Father and the Son. The qualifier eternal removes this relationship from the constraints of time and space; there was no beginning, and will be no end to the generation of the Son from the Father. The qualifier necessarily removes any ontological dependence between the Father and the Son; the Son must be generated from the Father, and the Father must generate the Son.
(Of course, Got Questions got their predestined bias into this so I'll leave the following paragraph for those of you who are.
I myself do not subscribe to this (following) as they present things)
The terms Father and Son do more than analogize the relationship between the First and Second Person of the Trinity; they also help explain a theological truth. There is a hierarchical and functional order being described here—one that defines the activity of Father and Son in the economy of creation and salvation. The Father speaks the universe into existence, and the Son is the agent of that creation. The Father elects the chosen unto salvation, and the Son provides the necessary atonement. The Father sends the Son, and not the other way around. This hierarchy of role and function in no way diminishes the ontological equality between the Father and the Son; they are both essentially God, sharing equally in the full divine essence. So, the terms Father and Son, far from being a mere anthropomorphism, go to the heart of defining this necessary and eternal relationship. As such, the doctrine of eternal generation is clearly in line with our four assertions concerning the Trinity, above.
Is this doctrine supported in Scripture? Consider the following verses:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14)
“No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.” (John 1:18)
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)
“For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.” (John 5:26)
“Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.” (John 14:11)
“That they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” (John 17:21)
“He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.” (Hebrews 1:3)
The thrust of these verses, as they apply to the Trinity, is to suggest that the relationship between Father and Son has existed for all eternity and is grounded in ontological equality. Also worth consideration are the words of the Nicene Creed and the Westminster Confession of Faith as they pertain to eternal generation:
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made. (Nicene Creed)
In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son. (WCF, II.3)
Based on Scripture and the witness of the creeds and confessions, we can be sure that the doctrine of eternal generation is biblical.
We should not expect every believer to have a fully mature grasp of this doctrine. The doctrine of the Trinity—including the doctrine of eternal generation—is the centerpiece of orthodox theology and should be affirmed by every true believer, but it is not a requirement for a true confession of faith. In other words, salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8). As one studies the Christian faith, one will come to a more mature understanding of this doctrine.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
My pleasure.Thanks for posting this article.
I found it to be enlightening, yet I know flack will come from it.
It gives a differing, and clearly understanding view of the eternal Son without that begotten word in the mix.
Blessings
Good morning brother,
I did read this early this morning, and I will post on this maybe later today when we stop in Atlanta to meet up with my daughter and her family. Time is precious for me at the moment, but I will take time and make a post concerning this. If time does not permit, then I must wait until we reach the gulf of America, heading to "Water Color" ~ it's nice to have a son-in-law being a vice president of a large company....... expenses paid almost in full.
DavidTree
Active Member
The Word of God will give you and @civic some "flack" on it.
Good Morning @FreeInChrist @civic @Red Baker @Duane
the question of "eternally begotten" is once and for all solidified as 'unacceptable'
With that said, you can continue believing whatever your heart/mind desires but if it does not agree with the words coming out of God's Mouth then we must, at the very least, classify "eternally begotten" as a idea 'begotten' inside of man.
Pay close attention to the words of God - Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren.
For with God nothing will be impossible.”
FreeInChrist
Active Member
David wait a minute.
This has nothing to do with the Begotten Son. It has to do with the
eternal generation.
Not even close to the same thing.
My skin in the eternity of Word/Jesus had originally to do with what the 2nd in the Godhead was called before crestion.
Which I am not going into that debate here.
But this is not about that at all, except to agree with your statement "the question of "eternally begotten" is once and for all solidified as 'unacceptable'.
You cannot have begotten at the same time you have the begettor because one of them chronologically does not work.
But this is going dwon another yellow brick road.
I suggest you read what is written again and then if you want to talk about it, while we wait on Red, great.
Bearing in mind that The doctrine of eternal generation refers to the belief that God the Father eternally generates God the Son, meaning the Son has always existed as the Son and is of the same divine essence as the Father.
Unfortunately, this idea may not go very far... because the RCC and Eastern Orthodoxy are supporters.... and here that seems to be a big no no.
Is it biblical? Scripture teaches that Jesus Christ is both one with the Father and yet distinct from the Father. The doctrine of the “eternal generation” plays an important role in securing both points. This doctrine teaches that the Father eternally communicates the divine essence to the Son without division or change so that the Son shares an equality of nature with the Father (sharing all the attributes of deity) yet is also eternally distinct from the Father.
Another good explanation comes from https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/forever-and-always-the-son
Forever and Always the Son
Why We Treasure Eternal Generation
Article byFred Sanders
Professor, Biola University
Good theology is an invitation to look deeper into the things we believe. When it comes to the most important doctrines, we have the advantage of a rich history of carefully crafted creeds and confessions to help us along the way. For example, we believe that God the Son is “eternally begotten, not made, without beginning, being of one essence with the Father.” What is eternal generation and how important is it?
Faith in Jesus as the Son of God is the very essence of being a Christian. “If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God,” says 1 John 4:15. We confess that Jesus is the Son of God in answer to the gospel message that “the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world” (1 John 4:14). But once we have confessed that Jesus is the Son of God, we have good reason to ask ourselves how deep his sonship goes, or how far back it reaches.
The answer is that the sonship of the Son goes as deep as the depths of God; it goes all the way back into the very being of God. There was never a time when the Son was not the Son.
Are There Alternatives?
The alternatives are unacceptable. For example, if somebody said that Jesus wasn’t always the Son of God, but became the Son at some point during his life — say when the Holy Spirit descended on him, or at the transfiguration, or at the resurrection — that would be the crudest kind of adoptionism. It would limit sonship to a phase of Christ’s life, and cut it off before tracing it back into his essential or eternal being.Or if somebody admitted that there had always been such a thing as the second person of the Trinity, but that this person wasn’t “the Son” until he became incarnate, that would also be cutting off sonship before it reached all the way back. On this account we would have Jesus the Son on our side of things, but over on God’s side there would be no sonship. But if sonship is only real on our side of things, and corresponds to nothing in the being of God, then how has God made himself known in the sending of the Son?
Eternally Sendable
When the New Testament tells us that the Father sent the Son (1 John 4:14; John 3:16; Galatians 4:4), it presupposes that the Father always had the Son with him, sendable, so to speak. The Son was always there with the Father; the one God has always been the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is crucial for the depth of the biblical message of salvation that what we encounter in Christ is not just another event or arrangement, but that when we meet the Son, we meet one who “was in the beginning with God” (John 1:2), one who “was with the Father and was made manifest to us” (1 John 1:2).This was the line of biblical thinking that was classically expressed in the fourth century in the Nicene Creed, which recognizes Jesus as God the Son and calls him “eternally begotten.” The word begotten now sounds old fashioned to most people, but it means “to come from a father.” It is the paternal parallel to the maternal word born: children are begotten of fathers and born of mothers.
By calling God the Son eternally begotten, the Christian tradition is making it clear that Christ’s sonship goes all the way back into the being of God. The Son belongs within that divine being, or essence; to put it in more relational and Trinitarian language, he is of one essence with the Father.
Why Use Terms Outside the Bible?
It might seem safer to restrict ourselves to purely biblical language, and not go any further than affirming that he is the Son. But after we have quoted the biblical language, the value of using a few key terms that are not drawn directly from the Bible is that we can use them to specify what we understand the Bible to mean.That is exactly the step we take when we say that the Son is eternally begotten. We are specifying that when we say “Son,” we don’t mean just anything that might be associated with any kind of sonship. We don’t mean that this son is younger, or has a divine mother, or is under parental authority, for example.
Affirming his eternal begottenness shows that we are not freely associating every possible aspect of earthly sonship with the divine Son, but picking out this particular eternal relation with the being of God. The Son is from the Father: coeternally, coessentially, coequally. Eternal generation means we don’t bring all our ideas about sonship and apply them to him; we learn from the eternally begotten one what he means by calling himself the Son of God.
Why This Is Important
How important is eternal generation? Its fundamental value is that it tells the truth about who God the Son is according to Scripture. Even if it were a truth with no further practical implications, that would be enough, because confessing the Son’s eternal generation would help us keep our balance not just in christology but in everything we say about God the Son.But it is also a doctrine with practical implications, mainly because of how closely connected it is to the doctrine of salvation. We have talked about the importance of tracing sonship all the way back into God in order to confess more accurately that Jesus is the Son of God. Grounding sonship in God’s own being, in the one who is “eternally begotten, not made, without beginning, being of one essence with the Father,” also means that our adoption is grounded in God.
When God saves sinners, he does so by coming to us in our extreme need and bringing us into his own life of blessedness and communion. God opens up the divine life to us without compromising his deity or obliterating our creaturehood, because God the Father sends God the Son and God the Holy Spirit to encompass us in the Father-Son-Spirit life that is our only possible source of salvation.
Adopted into an Eternal Sonship
The sonship into which we are adopted as human sons and daughters is a sonship that, in the person of God the Son, goes all the way back into God. What the second person of the Trinity is by nature, the redeemed become by grace: sons. There is a linked chain of sonship that is joined to God on one side and our salvation on the other. The only-begotten Son becomes the incarnate Son and brings about fellowship with adopted sons. The more clearly and surely we confess the eternal begetting of God the Son, the more deeply we will understand our regeneration as adopted sons.The doctrine of eternal generation is a treasure of Christian theology. In addition to being a biblical truth, eternal generation also happens to be the deeply traditional position confessed by the church down through the centuries. And it reaches all the way down into the experience of salvation and the Christian life, which is a life of sonship grounded in the eternal depth of the eternal Son.
Later
DavidTree
Active Member
eternal generation = eternal begotten
splitting hairs of the same presuppositional position
Eternal Son is only because Elohim is Eternal from Eternity
What are you missing from Luke 1:35
DavidTree
Active Member
CORRECT
FreeInChrist
Active Member
What exactly do you understand begotten to mean?
The very first thing that pops up in the drop down list. This I understood from grade school was the meaning because this was what they used to teach the children.
verb
- Past participle of beget.
adjective
- (of offspring) generated by procreation.
and on this one I do.
I also cannot control the definitions given to promote and idea.
Eternal Generation and Eternal Begotten have zero ties to my mind....
The Greek word "γεγεννηκα" (gegenneka) translates to "have begotten" or "have brought forth," indicating the act of fathering or causing to arise. It is often used in a biblical context to refer to God's relationship with Jesus, as seen in passages like Acts 13:33.
So back to what was in that article.
"There is still one divine essence that eternally exists in two persons through eternal generation."
This, in no way , can be said of begotten. The only possible way would be for someone to add to the actual meaning of the word, which does seem to be an ongoing process. There is no way that "generated by procreation." Happened before Mary.
Look at
Hebrews 1:5
For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“ You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”? And again:
“ I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
He said You are My Son, Today I have begotten you. IT DOES NOT SAY You are my begotten Son. WHY?
also said
I will be to Him a Father and He shall be to Me a Son. SHOULD IT NOT SAY I am His Father and He is My Son?
The answer is no because this is different then eternal. These were current into the future.
There is still one divine essence that eternally exists in two persons through eternal generation. Reformed theologian Louis Berkhof states the doctrine of eternal generation in this way:
It is that eternal and necessary act of the first person in the Trinity, whereby He, within the divine Being, is the ground of a second personal subsistence like His own, and puts this second person in possession of the whole divine essence, without any division, alienation, or change (Systematic Theology, Eerdmans, 1938, p. 94).
So, we see that eternal generation is an act performed by the First Person of the Trinity. Furthermore, this act by the First Person is necessarily and eternally performed. Finally, the result of this act is the generation of the Second Person of the Trinity in such a way that the entire divine essence is communicated from the Father to the Son.
DavidTree
Active Member
generate/generation
generate /jĕn′ə-rāt″/
transitive verb
- To bring into being; give rise to.
"generate a discussion." - To produce as a result of a chemical or physical process.
"generate heat." - To engender (offspring); procreate.
Forget everything you have been taught or read from 'scholars' or the supposed 'fathers'
BELIEVE every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God - Matt 4:4
Reject any word from any source that contradicts the words Spoken by God from Genesis to Revelation
Do not remove the ancient landmark,
Nor enter the fields of the fatherless;
For their Redeemer is mighty;
He will plead their cause against you.
Apply your heart to instruction,
And your ears to words of knowledge.
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
DavidTree
Active Member
CORRECT = TRUTH
FreeInChrist
Active Member
"There is still one divine essence that eternally exists in two persons through eternal generation."??????????????????????????
Do you disagree?
DavidTree
Active Member
There is the Echad True ELOHIM and THEIR Number is THREE = Genesis chapter 1 = John chapter 1
Go back to Luke 1:35 = what do you SEE
civic
Active Member
I see the Eternal 3 Divine Persons are Father, Son , Holy Spirit who are the One God.
hope this helps !!!
DavidTree
Active Member
AMENI see the Eternal 3 Divine Persons are Father, Son , Holy Spirit who are the One God.
hope this helps !!!
And THESE THREE are ETERNAL
You have 7-7-7 Vision
FreeInChrist
Active Member
This has absolutely nothing to do with 417 trillion times 5198 billion times 17 gazillion years before Adam... And you have The god, who people had called Yahweh, The Word, and The Holy Spirit.
There was a relationship between two of these main spirits.
What do you call these two? Their common title.
