Did Jesus Shed His Humanity at the Ascension?

Yes, somethng is happening with Thomas,
Hold it stop. It's not just "something" happening to Thomas. It's something happening with Jesus who opened up his mouth and said, " ....flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Jn 24:39
but then the Bible makes a strong statement flesh and blood cannout inhereit the kingdom/
OK fair enough. The Bible says that. 1 Cor 15:50 But why do you gravitate towards claiming that's a strong statement and Jesus statement isn't? Jesus said, "...flesh and bone as you see me have" You're wanting to claim it was not flesh. We got to go with Jesus on this! He said IT WAS.

So how do we reconcile that verse you provided. 1 Cor 15:50 Theologians have discussed a couple of possibilities but certainly not anything like you're claiming. Your claim is an absolute diverting from Jesus clear statement. So what is possible? The verse you quoted says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom.

It did NOT say though that flesh and bone couldn't. If you know anything you know a great number of theologians point that out as something for us to consider. HOWEVER it still is the SAME body. The wounds in his hands and feet, and side the same body Jesus had on the cross.....but glorified.

Other theologians suggest the flesh in 1 Cor 15 isn't talking about physical flesh but is used in the same usage as they that walk in the flesh or after the natural man or mind cannot please God. Flesh in those terms is used in a different context. So what two options are true. I won't say but never should one embrace your idea.

You say no to the physical human body. Jesus said it was his body and he said it was flesh that went to the cross so you need not to have any doubt about that.
 
They were NOT on the shore you're making that up! And you're making that up to have it your way but you can do that all you want but it's very clear they were NOT on the shore.

1) they're out there in the water fishing all night out there away from the shore.
2) Jesus at dawn stood on the shore and called out to them and it even tells us how far they were from the shore....200 cubits (100 yards) John 21:8 To call means to express oneself in a loud fashion so as to be heard.

But you're wanting to assert they were all on the shore right up beside him....thus to back your claim he must have had a body they didn't know. Sorry Seth but if you continue your claim in light of what I've just shared it really becomes just stonewalling against the truth of scripture which is absolutely clear on the matter.

of fish.
Verse John 21: 6, They came in with no fish. they came back to the beach
John 21:7 Jesus on the beach where they landed sends then back out, no one recognizes Him yet
When they catch fish then they know it is Him
 
John 21:3 says they went and got in the boat.
Without Jesus with them for he wasn't with them.
Then they had come back to the shore empty.
The Jn 21 DOES NOT say they came back to the shore. It most certainly did not. Where do you get that from this?

3“We will go with you,” they said. So they went out and got into the boat, but caught nothing that night. 4Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not recognize that it was Jesus. (they were still out there 100 yards away) 5So He called out to them, “Children, do you have any fish?”


 
Hold it stop. It's not just "something" happening to Thomas. It's something happening with Jesus who opened up his mouth and said, " ....flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Jn 24:39

OK fair enough. The Bible says that. 1 Cor 15:50 But why do you gravitate towards claiming that's a strong statement and Jesus statement isn't? Jesus said, "...flesh and bone as you see me have" You're wanting to claim it was not flesh. We got to go with Jesus on this! He said IT WAS.

So how do we reconcile that verse you provided. 1 Cor 15:50 Theologians have discussed a couple of possibilities but certainly not anything like you're claiming. Your claim is an absolute diverting from Jesus clear statement. So what is possible? The verse you quoted says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom.

It did NOT say though that flesh and bone couldn't. If you know anything you know a great number of theologians point that out as something for us to consider. HOWEVER it still is the SAME body. The wounds in his hands and feet, and side the same body Jesus had on the cross.....but glorified.

Other theologians suggest the flesh in 1 Cor 15 isn't talking about physical flesh but is used in the same usage as they that walk in the flesh or after the natural man or mind cannot please God. Flesh in those terms is used in a different context. So what two options are true. I won't say but never should one embrace your idea.

You say no to the physical human body. Jesus said it was his body and he said it was flesh that went to the cross so you need not to have any doubt about that.
I keep posting this verse teaching that God was for a while made a little lower that the angets aand I get no commet.
It refers to men being lower that angels, for a while. Then Jesus too. At some point we will not be lower than angels
 
I keep posting this verse teaching that God was for a while made a little lower that the angets aand I get no commet.
It refers to men being lower that angels, for a while. Then Jesus too. At some point we will not be lower than angels
Not sure Seth how this connects to anything of my post you put down though. Will you acknowledge it is true that Jesus said his body was and is flesh and bone. That was what we were discussing.
 
Not sure Seth how this connects to anything of my post you put down though. Will you acknowledge it is true that Jesus said his body was and is flesh and bone. That was what we were discussing.
you don't get the connection to your post. We are talking abpout being human? So is my verse.
It was for a little while. That's the mode;. Jesus letf us after being a man for a little while.

So you cannot say He is still flesh. when God says it was for a little while.
 
you don't get the connection to your post. We are talking abpout being human? So is my verse.
It was for a little while. That's the mode;. Jesus letf us after being a man for a little while.

So you cannot say He is still flesh. when God says it was for a little while.
in John 21 Jesus did not say He is flesh. if you think so then state the exact verse please between verse 4 and 12
 
in John 21 Jesus did not say He is flesh. if you think so then state the exact verse please between verse 4 and 12
I don't have to show that he actually said that in Jn 21. That's already BEEN ESTABLISHED in the record of Luke 24:39.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

So why is it that you continually resist and challenge this? Is it because you believed your way for years and just WON'T accept the clear declaration above? I'm not trying to beat you down Seth but why, why, why won't you accept this?
 
I don't have to show that he actually said that in Jn 21. That's already BEEN ESTABLISHED in the record of Luke 24:39.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

So why is it that you continually resist and challenge this? Is it because you believed your way for years and just WON'T accept the clear declaration above? I'm not trying to beat you down Seth but why, why, why won't you accept this?
It’s the same way a uni cannot see the deity of Christ and refuses all the evidence. It’s no different here with Jesus resurrection and Him being the son of man for all eternity being denied.
 

It’s no different here with Jesus resurrection and Him being the son of man for all eternity being denied.
Well I think I'm probably near done with my discourse with Seth in this matter. If he's not willing to acknowledge what Jesus said that his resurrected body was FLESH and BONE Lk 24:39 than what else can be said?
 
I don't have to show that he actually said that in Jn 21. That's already BEEN ESTABLISHED in the record of Luke 24:39.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

So why is it that you continually resist and challenge this? Is it because you believed your way for years and just WON'T accept the clear declaration above? I'm not trying to beat you down Seth but why, why, why won't you accept this?
What explanation do you gve that Jesus and the men were on the bbeach and He sent them out, but they didn't know who He was?
 
What explanation do you gve that Jesus and the men were on the bbeach and He sent them out, but they didn't know who He was?
They WERE NOT on the beach WITH Jesus and he DID NOT send them out. It's not in Jn 21 and you're making this up.

. 3“I’m going out to fish,” Simon Peter told them, and they said, “We’ll go with you.” So they went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.

(My words:
So you're trying to assert that they caught nothing all night and came to shore....and on shore they were with Jesus. Not so the text DOES NOT say that. They caught nothing they were on the water, even tells us how far 100 yards out. Then verse 4 but they were still 100 yards out.

4Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.

And there's nothing there which say he sent them out, THEY WERE OUT. What he called out to them was to throw the nets to a certain place....that's not sending them out. You're either confused mixing the account of Lk 5:4,5 years before where he told them to launch out into the deep or you're stonewalling me I'd say against the truth.
 
What explanation do you gve that Jesus and the men were on the bbeach and He sent them out, but they didn't know who He was?
they were 100 yards from Him. Heck I don't recognize people 20 yards away and especially in low light conditions in the morning or evening, sunrise/sunset.

No one recognized Him because He closed their eyes , hid His true identity from them until it was in His perfect time to reveal Himself to them. Just like the parables and gospel were hidden, veiled to some so too was His resurrection hidden from most and revealed to only a few. Until God opens up one’s eyes , heart and mind it remains hidden, veiled to them . Jesus did the same thing with His bodily Resurrection until it was time to reveal himself raised from the dead to those He chose to reveal that too.

Luke 24:16- But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him.

Luke 24:31-32- Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight. They said to one another, “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scripture to us?

The real question is when will you believe Gods written word on the topic instead of doubt it ?

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead and He opened up their mind to see and understand.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”

34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

hope this helps !!!
 
They WERE NOT on the beach WITH Jesus and he DID NOT send them out. It's not in Jn 21 and you're making this up.

. 3“I’m going out to fish,” Simon Peter told them, and they said, “We’ll go with you.” So they went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.

(My words:
So you're trying to assert that they caught nothing all night and came to shore....and on shore they were with Jesus. Not so the text DOES NOT say that. They caught nothing they were on the water, even tells us how far 100 yards out. Then verse 4 but they were still 100 yards out.

4Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.

And there's nothing there which say he sent them out, THEY WERE OUT. What he called out to them was to throw the nets to a certain place....that's not sending them out. You're either confused mixing the account of Lk 5:4,5 years before where he told them to launch out into the deep or you're stonewalling me I'd say against the truth.
please continue on.
John 21 Verse 6 Wnen they come back empty he tells them from the beach to Cast their net on the right hand side
john 21 verse 7 they are at the beach, so they go out again,they catch a load And John and peter know it is Jesus, and they all come back
John 21 verse 8, they were 100 feet from the land
they were 100 yards from Him. Heck I don't recognize people 20 yards away and especially in low light conditions in the morning or evening, sunrise/sunset.

No one recognized Him because He closed their eyes , hid His true identity from them until it was in His perfect time to reveal Himself to them. Just like the parables and gospel were hidden, veiled to some so too was His resurrection hidden from most and revealed to only a few. Until God opens up one’s eyes , heart and mind it remains hidden, veiled to them . Jesus did the same thing with His bodily Resurrection until it was time to reveal himself raised from the dead to those He chose to reveal that too.

Luke 24:16- But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him.

Luke 24:31-32- Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight. They said to one another, “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scripture to us?

The real question is when will you believe Gods written word on the topic instead of doubt it ?

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead and He opened up their mind to see and understand.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”

34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

hope this helps !!!
Luke 24_16-32 is a differen story? Why would you distract peoplr with that? And then add other stories,are you trying to confuse them.
 
please continue on.
John 21 Verse 6 Wnen they come back empty he tells them from the beach to Cast their net on the right hand side
john 21 verse 7 they are at the beach, so they go out again,they catch a load And John and peter know it is Jesus, and they all come back
John 21 verse 8, they were 100 feet from the land

Luke 24_16-32 is a differen story? Why would you distract peoplr with that? And then add other stories,are you trying to confuse them.
WRONG they were 300 feet or 100 yards- An entire football field away. I would need binoculars to identify someone at that distance. I'm not an eagle , falcon or hawk who can see things clearly from hundreds of yards away- humans are incapable of such eyesight.

from a 100 yards you cannot tell is someone is a man or a woman, their height, nationality, weight etc.......

its impossible.

next fallacious argument ?
 
They WERE NOT on the beach WITH Jesus and he DID NOT send them out. It's not in Jn 21 and you're making this up.

. 3“I’m going out to fish,” Simon Peter told them, and they said, “We’ll go with you.” So they went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.

(My words:
So you're trying to assert that they caught nothing all night and came to shore....and on shore they were with Jesus. Not so the text DOES NOT say that. They caught nothing they were on the water, even tells us how far 100 yards out. Then verse 4 but they were still 100 yards out.

4Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.

And there's nothing there which say he sent them out, THEY WERE OUT. What he called out to them was to throw the nets to a certain place....that's not sending them out. You're either confused mixing the account of Lk 5:4,5 years before where he told them to launch out into the deep or you're stonewalling me I'd say against the truth.
you have been the nicest over my ridiculous position. I kept reading John 21, and this morning I see the way I was taught 50 years ago in my first church and I could not see thru my stronghold. Because of your kindness in correcting me, the stronghold is brought down. Praise God! And watch out forThe power of a first church to indoctrinate.
Still, I have to maintaim that from 300 yards, It was the spirit that enlightened them it was Jesus not their eyes and ears.
 
you have been the nicest over my ridiculous position. I kept reading John 21, and this morning I see the way I was taught 50 years ago in my first church and I could not see thru my stronghold. Because of your kindness in correcting me, the stronghold is brought down. Praise God! And watch out forThe power of a first church to indoctrinate.
Still, I have to maintaim that from 300 yards, It was the spirit that enlightened them it was Jesus not their eyes and ears.
Well thank you for your kind words Seth. I do seek to be kind and gentle in how I present myself....at least that's what I strive to do but perhaps not always successful. And we can agree being out 100's of yards yes the Spirit bore witness that it was Jesus on the shore. I have no problem with that. Peace :)
 
you have been the nicest over my ridiculous position. I kept reading John 21, and this morning I see the way I was taught 50 years ago in my first church and I could not see thru my stronghold. Because of your kindness in correcting me, the stronghold is brought down. Praise God! And watch out forThe power of a first church to indoctrinate.
Still, I have to maintaim that from 300 yards, It was the spirit that enlightened them it was Jesus not their eyes and ears.
Wow this is amazing seth you are serious right ?
 
Well thank you for your kind words Seth. I do seek to be kind and gentle in how I present myself....at least that's what I strive to do but perhaps not always successful. And we can agree being out 100's of yards yes the Spirit bore witness that it was Jesus on the shore. I have no problem with that. Peace

What about this strange statemet in John 21:12 None venture to Ask Him "who are you? because they nkew it was him. Why did they want to ask? I feel there is a need expressed, but but they don-t venture to ask
 
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