Calvinism makes man a new creation apart from Christ

[brightfame52]

Show where

Unbelievers do not receive the Spirit

Galatians 3:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

John 7:38 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ”
John 7:39 (ESV) — 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Ephesians 3:17 (ESV) — 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

Its descriptive of how God saves unbelieving sinners,

Ezk 36:25-27


25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

A New Heart is part of Salvation

 

[civic]

LOL

If faith is a gift as you argue

He either gave it to you and you accepted it (your theology rejects this)

Or he unilaterally infused it into you

And If faith is none of yourself someone else must be doing it for you

You just don't like the implications of your theological claims

Yes more oxymorons

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

LOL

If faith is a gift as you argue

He either gave it to you and you accepted it (your theology rejects this)

Or he unilaterally infused it into you

And If faith is none of yourself someone else must be doing it for you

You just don't like the implications of your theological claims

Thank you for proving my point. I didn't even answer the question and you came back with the intellectually dishonest "you believe God zapped belief into you". This is why it's not worth trying to have an honest discussion with you or @civic. You're both just anti-Calvinist trolls.

 

[civic]

Thank you for proving my point. I didn't even answer the question and you came back with the intellectually dishonest "you believe God zapped belief into you". This is why it's not worth trying to have an honest discussion with you or @civic. You're both just anti-Calvinist trolls.

No as a Former Calvinist I know it’s not your belief at all since a corpse cannot believe anything . That’s your unbiblical doctrine, not mine.

The fact is you cannot argue against it since I’m stating your own Calvinist doctrine and using it against you.

It has nothing to do with “ trolling “ that’s your cop out.

hope this helps !!!

 

[TomL]

Thank you for proving my point. I didn't even answer the question and you came back with the intellectually dishonest "you believe God zapped belief into you". This is why it's not worth trying to have an honest discussion with you or @civic. You're both just anti-Calvinist trolls.

LOL

You fail to live up to the logical implications of your theology

BTW I stated nothing about being zapped

I did note you affirm faith is a gift

And logically concluded

you can affirm it is a gift you must receive

or you can affirm he gives it unilaterally infusing into you

Now can you deny your theology affirms he gives faith unilaterally and his gift comes irresistibly?

 

[brightfame52]

Um Calvinist theology would call it a gift of faith

Salvific Faith is a Gift of Grace not of oneself Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Now both Grace and Faith in Eph 2:8 are feminine so they're one in that context !

Same in Rom 4 16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Faith is in accordance with Grace

Now if you insist, as you do with the erroneous fleshly concept that Faith in Salvation is of oneself instead of Grace, it defaults to a fleshly work of man, and not Grace.

Take your pick

 

[brightfame52]

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

 

[TomL]

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

Actually that shows faith is the instrumental cause of salvation

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



The efficient (primary) cause of our eternal salvation the Scripture uniformly proclaims to be the mercy and free love of the heavenly Father towards us; the material cause to be Christ, with the obedience by which he purchased righteousness for us; and what can the formal or instrumental cause be but faith? John includes the three in one sentence when he says, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life,” (John 3:16).


That is not the word of an Arminian or a provisionist but of


John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).


Similarly The Calvinist Theologian Berkouwer states


3. TO FAITH. Faith is the mediate or instrumental cause of sanctification as well as of justification. It does not merit sanctification any more than it does justification, but it unites us to Christ and keeps us in touch with Him as the Head of the new humanity, who is the source of the new life within us, and also of our progressive sanctification, through the operation of the Holy Spirit



L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans publishing co., 1938), 537.

There is not just a correlation between faith and justification, faith and regeneration , faith and salvation

There is a causal relationship even Calvinist theologians have affirmed

 

[brightfame52]

Actually that shows faith is the instrumental cause of salvation

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



The efficient (primary) cause of our eternal salvation the Scripture uniformly proclaims to be the mercy and free love of the heavenly Father towards us; the material cause to be Christ, with the obedience by which he purchased righteousness for us; and what can the formal or instrumental cause be but faith? John includes the three in one sentence when he says, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life,” (John 3:16).


That is not the word of an Arminian or a provisionist but of


John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).


Similarly The Calvinist Theologian Berkouwer states


3. TO FAITH. Faith is the mediate or instrumental cause of sanctification as well as of justification. It does not merit sanctification any more than it does justification, but it unites us to Christ and keeps us in touch with Him as the Head of the new humanity, who is the source of the new life within us, and also of our progressive sanctification, through the operation of the Holy Spirit



L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans publishing co., 1938), 537.

There is not just a correlation between faith and justification, faith and regeneration , faith and salvation

There is a causal relationship even Calvinist theologians have affirmed

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

 

[TomL]

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

That still notes faith as the instrument cause of salvation

Actually that shows faith is the instrumental cause of salvation

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And believe is what man must do

Acts 16:30–31 (NIV) — 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”




The efficient (primary) cause of our eternal salvation the Scripture uniformly proclaims to be the mercy and free love of the heavenly Father towards us; the material cause to be Christ, with the obedience by which he purchased righteousness for us; and what can the formal or instrumental cause be but faith? John includes the three in one sentence when he says, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life,” (John 3:16).


That is not the word of an Arminian or a provisionist but of


John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).


Similarly The Calvinist Theologian Berkouwer states


3. TO FAITH. Faith is the mediate or instrumental cause of sanctification as well as of justification. It does not merit sanctification any more than it does justification, but it unites us to Christ and keeps us in touch with Him as the Head of the new humanity, who is the source of the new life within us, and also of our progressive sanctification, through the operation of the Holy Spirit



L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans publishing co., 1938), 537.

There is not just a correlation between faith and justification, faith and regeneration , faith and salvation

There is a causal relationship even Calvinist theologians have affirmed

 

[brightfame52]

That still notes faith as the instrument cause of salvation

Actually that shows faith is the instrumental cause of salvation

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And believe is what man must do

Acts 16:30–31 (NIV) — 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”




The efficient (primary) cause of our eternal salvation the Scripture uniformly proclaims to be the mercy and free love of the heavenly Father towards us; the material cause to be Christ, with the obedience by which he purchased righteousness for us; and what can the formal or instrumental cause be but faith? John includes the three in one sentence when he says, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life,” (John 3:16).


That is not the word of an Arminian or a provisionist but of


John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).


Similarly The Calvinist Theologian Berkouwer states


3. TO FAITH. Faith is the mediate or instrumental cause of sanctification as well as of justification. It does not merit sanctification any more than it does justification, but it unites us to Christ and keeps us in touch with Him as the Head of the new humanity, who is the source of the new life within us, and also of our progressive sanctification, through the operation of the Holy Spirit



L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans publishing co., 1938), 537.

There is not just a correlation between faith and justification, faith and regeneration , faith and salvation

There is a causal relationship even Calvinist theologians have affirmed

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

 

[TomL]

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

Sorry but dia through makes faith the instrumental means of salvation

and touto (it or that) cannot refer to faith because verse 9 modifies the it or that of verse 8

And it is not to state

faith is not the result of works as no one would argue that.

In any case just believe scripture

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

eternal life which is salvation is the gift

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry but dia through makes faith the instrumental means of salvation

and touto (it or that) cannot refer to faith because verse 9 modifies the it or that of verse 8

And it is not to state

faith is not the result of works as no one would argue that.

In any case just believe scripture

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

eternal life which is salvation is the gift

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

 

[TomL]

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

Sorry but dia through makes faith the instrumental means of salvation

and touto (it or that) cannot refer to faith because verse 9 modifies the it or that of verse 8

And it is not to state

faith is not the result of works as no one would argue that.

In any case just believe scripture

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

eternal life which is salvation is the gift

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry but dia through makes faith the instrumental means of salvation

and touto (it or that) cannot refer to faith because verse 9 modifies the it or that of verse 8

And it is not to state

faith is not the result of works as no one would argue that.

In any case just believe scripture

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

eternal life which is salvation is the gift

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

 

[TomL]

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

sorry your logic is defective

If salvation is referred to that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is refered the not of works makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

 

[brightfame52]

sorry your logic is defective

If salvation is referred to that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is refered the not of works makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

 

[TomL]

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

You ignore the argument once again

Sorry, your logic is defective

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

 

[brightfame52]

You ignore the argument once again

Sorry, your logic is defective

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

 

[TomL]

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.

But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart

you still ignore the argument

You ignore the argument once again

Sorry, your logic is defective

If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9

but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense

No one argues faith is produced by works