The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Say what? You free-willers have repeatedly stated that "This is the work of God" means "This is the work required by God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." You are claiming faith is produced by work.
Calvinism makes man a new creation apart from Christ
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Say what? You free-willers have repeatedly stated that "This is the work of God" means "This is the work required by God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." You are claiming faith is produced by work.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Eph 2:8,9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
The Apostle doth not affirm that we are saved for our faith, for the worth, merit, dignity or excellency thereof, but through faith; faith being the gift of grace by which grace is revealed, and applied unto us.
But if faith be of ourselves, then it immediately denies Vs 9
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Grace is the principal cause of our salvation, whilst faith is the organ or instrument given unto us by God, for the discovery and application of his grace unto our own minds/heart
If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9
but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense
No one argues faith is produced by works
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
People have repeatedly argued "This is the work of God that you believe on Him whom He has sent" means "This is the work required by God that you believe on Him whom He has sent".
That means several people argue that faith is a work.
but not a work in the sense Paul uses it. It is not that which earns merit and is owed to the believer
Romans 4:1–5 (ESV) — 1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
box of cracker jacks where else it sure aint bible
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Work is not the same as work, says the person who also says belief and faith are the same because they have the same root word.
Work is work.
You did not deal with the argument
but not a work in the sense Paul uses it. It is not that which earns merit and is owed to the believer
Romans 4:1–5 (ESV) — 1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its Grace Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.
You failed to address the argument
If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9
but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense
No one argues faith is produced by works
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I had it wrong before, but now I see the reason why "that" is neutral and refers to EVERYTHING preceding it.
And that [being saved through faith] is not of yourselves. It is the gift of God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its Grace Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.
Still not addressing the argument
If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9
but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense
No one argues faith is produced by works
Salvation by grace through faith is a gift, but that does not mean the faith is a gift
Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
FIRST THING you got right makes No sense you sure don't
If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9
but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense
No one argues faith is produced by works
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its plain as the noon day sun, with Apostolic authority, faith is not of ourselves, its of Grace Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So dont tell me you believe the word of God, because you dont.
why can't you address this and just assume your interpretation
If salvation is referred to, that is consistent with verse 9
but if faith is referred to, the not of works, makes no sense
No one argues faith is produced by works
civic
Well-known member
its their strawman- its nothing but equivocating.
That guy never addresses a single thing
