Biblical Facts against PSA !

How does he give us our faith?

He does so by providing someone to tell us the Word of God that is needed to be taken by the hearer and believed.

"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."


Romans 10:17
Faith is still a gift-


1 ) "So then faith cometh by hearing", (ara he pistis eks akoes) "Then the faith comes out of hearing;" He who refuses to hear the Word, through which knowledge of condemnation and conviction of sin comes, Pro_1:22-24 will never have or ' take hold of the "gift of faith," thru which media every sinner is offered salvation by placing his divinely offered gift of faith in Jesus Christ, Eph_2:8-9; Joh_3:16.
 
How does he give us our faith?

He does so by providing someone to tell us the Word of God that is needed to be taken by the hearer and believed.

"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."


Romans 10:17
Exactly
 
Pick any topic on this forum you want to discuss with me and I will gladly see who has the biblical and exegetical view and who has the one based upon personal opinion or eisegesis.

Careful, please...

You should not make such a challenge to someone who is not gifted in exegesis. Real exegesis.

If not? What you proposed is an invitation for manipulation.

I have sat under exegetical men. They would never propose such a challenge to another unless both were respected scholars.
 
Careful, please...

You should not make such a challenge to someone who is not gifted in exegesis. Real exegesis.

If not? What you proposed is an invitation for manipulation.

I have sat under exegetical men. They would never propose such a challenge to another unless both were respected scholars.
This wasn't my challenge @GeneZ
 
Oh, please.

God can speak to anyone through his Word, not just people with humongous brains and thousands of hours of study.
 
Faith is still a gift-


1 ) "So then faith cometh by hearing", (ara he pistis eks akoes) "Then the faith comes out of hearing;" He who refuses to hear the Word, through which knowledge of condemnation and conviction of sin comes, Pro_1:22-24 will never have or ' take hold of the "gift of faith," thru which media every sinner is offered salvation by placing his divinely offered gift of faith in Jesus Christ, Eph_2:8-9; Joh_3:16.

It is a gift. Its a gift of like a free meal.

Faith is given from the outside to us, like with food.
After its chewed and assimilated?
It then proceeds to become one with our very being in our thinking.

Someone gives you a meal as a gift? You are not that meal.

But? The next day, after having that meal digested?
It now becomes a part of your body.
What was digested becomes a living part of you!
Such is faith. Its like food that enters into being experientially a living part of us.

Yet.. Without digestion and assimilation after being given the Word of God?
The potential for it becoming our faith remains like food put on the shelf. Its not yet our faith.
Like notes from a Bible lesson to be looked at again in the future.

Faith is not some gift we keep in a box...
We are to assimilate it. To be used by our heart to circulate through our stream of consciousness.

The spiritual 'digestive juices' to assimilate the Word of God?
That is the Holy Spirit.

When our faith spiritually digested and assimilated it is circulated by our kardia... heart = doctrinal thinking.

grace and peace ....................
 
Oh, please.

God can speak to anyone through his Word, not just people with humongous brains and thousands of hours of study.

Just the same, the Word we read in good translations from the Hebrew and Greek texts came from those with humongous brains and thousands of hours of study. Its true.
 
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Just the same, the Word we read translated from the Hebrew and Greek texts, came from those with humongous brains and thousands of hours of study.

Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus. (Acts 4:13 NKJ)
 
Disagree.

They may have been a vessel, but it came from God.

Bible translating? So you can get the Word from a Bible? It involved a lot of study...
That is, if the translation will be accurate, and not some emotion driven endeavor designed to appeal to some personal bias.
 
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus. (Acts 4:13 NKJ)
But, being Jews in ancient Israel they had been taught Scripture from their youth! They knew lots of Scripture. And, from the original languages that had accuracy. That is why Peter knew to quote from Joel at Pentecost. And, why the Jewish hearers knew what Peter was relating to.
 
Bible translating? So you can get the Word from a Bible? It involved a lot of study...
That is, if the translation will be accurate, and not some emotion driven endeavor designed to appeal to some personal bias.

Yes, but we still cannot rely upon the abilities of man for revelation from God.
 
100% correct.

this is the basis of Christianity. because this is why we believe in the first place.

101G.
He rescued us from Gods wrath but did not suffer wrath from God. The suffering He experienced came from the hands of wicked men.

hope this helps !!!
 
He rescued us from Gods wrath but did not suffer wrath from God. The suffering He experienced came from the hands of wicked men.

hope this helps !!!
ERROR, now before you go running off into fairyland.... READ this scripture that 101G about to give you carefully, understand it, and think before you speak..... ok,

Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."

next verse, Isaiah 53:11 "He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities."

next verse, Isaiah 53:12 "Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

now READ those verses carefully.

101G.
 
ERROR, now before you go running off into fairyland.... READ this scripture that 101G about to give you carefully, understand it, and think before you speak..... ok,

Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."

next verse, Isaiah 53:11 "He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities."

next verse, Isaiah 53:12 "Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

now READ those verses carefully.

101G.
Bingo-Ditto
 
He rescued us from Gods wrath but did not suffer wrath from God. The suffering He experienced came from the hands of wicked men.

This is an interesting loophole.

I don't like that Jesus had to suffer for my sins, but I also respect God too much to write my own code of justice.

I think the humble thing to do here, is let God bear his own wrath on my behalf.

And not whine about that.
 
This is an interesting loophole.

I don't like that Jesus had to suffer for my sins, but I also respect God too much to write my own code of justice.

I think the humble thing to do here, is let God bear his own wrath on my behalf.

And not whine about that.
Here is the interesting dilemma-some will lay the blame on what men did TO Messiah-but wholly neglect as to what YHVH did TO Messiah.
 
This is an interesting loophole.

I don't like that Jesus had to suffer for my sins, but I also respect God too much to write my own code of justice.

I think the humble thing to do here, is let God bear his own wrath on my behalf.

And not whine about that.
The TRUTH from scripture bears repeating for the members and guests here. So once again thank you @dizerner for yet another opportunity to share the TRUTH from Gods word and not my personal opinion that comes from any man made doctrine I believe.

How did God view His own death, atonement for sin ?

1- Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13

2-No man takes my life I lay it down and I will take it up again- John 10:18

3- I lay My life down for the sheep- John 10:15

4- Jesus viewed His death as the Passover John 6:51

5-just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many- Matthew 20:28

6-I Am the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep- substitution, John 10:11

7-Jesus said in John 11:50- nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish- substitution

8-Jesus tells His disciples the cup of suffering that awaited Him and that they too would also drink of this cup- Matthew 20

9-This is my blood of the Covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins- Matthew 26:28

10- Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing- Luke 23:34

Who killed Jesus ? the Father as PSA teaches on man as Jesus and the Apostles taught in the Bible ?

Acts 2:23
this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

Acts 2:36
“Therefore, let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

Acts 4:10- Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole…

Acts 5:30- The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree
Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life

Matthew 20:18-19
“We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will deliver Him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. And on the third day He will be raised to life."

Matthew 27:1- When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:

Matthew 27:35- When they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments by casting lots.

Mark 15:24- And they crucified Him. They also divided His garments by casting lots to decide what each of them would take

conclusion: The One who made Atonement for my sins completely left out PSA and not once mentioned it or hinted at it in any way, shape or form. He said His death was a substitution, ransom, Passover, sacrifice and for forgiveness of sins. and There was no wrath from the Father to the Son. The anger, wrath, vengeance, retribution as the Apostles taught in Acts and Jesus taught in the gospels came from evil and wicked men.

hope this helps !!!
 
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