civic
Well-known member
Yes and our revisionists on the forum can’t change the historical facts
Where's the wrath??
- Thread starter Joe
- Start date
The eastern Church did not have much regard for Augustine and hence were not infected by his doctrineYes and our revisionists on the forum can’t change the historical facts
civic
Well-known member
Praise the Good Lord
No brother, I do not have any problems with God being pleased to crush His Son, thus causing Him grief. It is because of His reasons.
The reasons why He subjected His Son to such humility and suffering is given to us in the bible. And not one single verse in the bible states God did so in fierce anger-wrath. Not one single verse in the bible states God punished His Son. So we can without a doubt understand He did not punish His Son for our sins. You yourself should know it is wrong to punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty. Knowing this, then there must be other reasons.
So what were God's reasons that pleased Him to crush His Son and cause Him grief? Here are only some of them.
- For His Son to willingly offer up His life unto death to be the final and effectual offering for sin.
- For God to judge sin in the bodily death of His Son.
- For God's Son to pay the ransom price of death for the guilt of our sins, thus freeing us from death and the grave.
- For by His Son to reconcile all things to Himself.
- For in the body of His Son's flesh through death to present us holy, blameless, and above reproach in His sight.
- To set forth His Son as the atoning sacrifice to demonstrate He is righteous for forbearing sin prior to His death and now in this present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of anyone who has faith in His Son.
- For His Son's death to usher in the New Covenant where it is God who forgives our sins and remembers them no more<--Hallelujah, who writes His law into our hearts and minds so that we live righteously.
- For His Son to be the firstborn from the dead, with all believers following suite at God's timing.
- To bring all enemies under the feet of His Son.
- Fulfill God's promises to Abraham, and all others.
- To pour-liberally give the Holy Spirit to all who believe.
- For His Son to be the new Adam from heaven.
- For His Son to be Savior of the world.
- For His Son to give us eternal life.
- For His Son to resurrect everyone from death and the grave.
- For His Son to judge all mankind.
- For God to deliver us from the power of Satan into the Kingdom of His beloved Son.
- To give His Son "dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed."
- To make our Lord, the Author of our salvation "perfect" through suffering.
- For His Son to learn obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
- To give His Son children.
- To liberate creation from is bondage to decay and bring it into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
- Etc, etc, etc
God's reason's were holy, perfect, pleasing, and righteous. His reasons are a benefit for Himself, His Son, for us, and all of creation except Satan and his angels, and unfortunately for unbelieving mankind that would rather live for sin than in union with God.
I pray this leaves you to understand God was not pleased to crush His Son to feel better about forgiving us. He crushed His Son for the reasons above and many more.
God Bless
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Johann
Well-known member
If you guys want to carry on blaspheming what I believe is the truth, and know it is the truth-please go ahead.
Call me a heretic man-you and your comrades but I want to see how you walk your talk and not talk your walk and in now way, shape or form do I believe that "God wanted to have His "pound of flesh" as you stated.
Look again at the verbs in Isaiah 53 and YOU tell me it is not penal-Ps 22 and many more--
Thanks
Johann.
Deal with the facts
In Penal substitutionary atonement God imputes to Christ all the sins of the world
In Penal substitutionary atonement God pours wrath out on His Son instead of us; to punish Him for our sins instead of us.
In Penal substitutionary atonement the Father forsakes the son who has now become the embodiment of sin and thus fractures the Trinity
Johann
Well-known member
I deal with facts-Scripturally-you however are twisting and perverting everything and it is impossible to have a dialogue with you.
Next time you "swing" around you will be on ignore.
civic
Well-known member
@Joe @TomL and myself have thoroughly refuted your false doctrine of PSA in this and other threads. It does not exist anywhere in the scriptures. Gods wrath never falls upon His Beloved Son in whom He is well pleased. It always falls on the god haters never on those who love God.
PSA like tulip are imaginay made up, man made heretical doctrines that are an ASSAULT on Gods Good nature/character.
next
civic
Well-known member
Yes those are the plain and simple facts even a child can understand.
civic
Well-known member
PSA is blasphemy. The doctrine is heresy. Its an assault upon Gods Good character. It pits the Father against the Son in anger, retribution, vengeance which are all definitions of wrath. The Tri-Unity of God is at stake- God turning His back and separating Himself from Jesus on the cross is ANTI- CHRIST.
2 Corinthians 5:19
God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world unto HIMSELF.
John 17:23
I in them, and Thou in Me that they may be perfect in One.
And they raise significant problems for the theory of penal substitutionary atonement
Indeed Jesus stated
John 8:29 (UASV) — 29 And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.”
So how could God look with displeasure upon Christ as PSA teaches
civic
Well-known member
Except on the cross lol where PSA says the opposite- God was angry, full of wrath, vengeance, retribution etc.......
civic
Well-known member
Amen
Johann
Well-known member
My false doctrine?
The reason you are on ignore is that you have become too personal in your ad hominems against me and you are not capable to refute anything-no offense.
I don't have to waste my time with you.
And this despite the fact Christ was acting to please him
Isa 53:10.................................................................And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
civic
Well-known member
PSA is a false doctrine and several of us have proven is heresy. You are free to believe that false doctrine that pits the Father against the Son. Its Anti- Trinitarian, antichrist in its teachings.
So continue ignoring the truth when its presented. God will hold you accountable for teaching heresy and not repenting.
See James 3:1- My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
1 Timothy 1:7
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not understand what they are saying or that which they so confidently assert.
Johann
Well-known member
The same goes for you-you are not fit or called to be a pastor, preacher or a teacher. Instead of promulgation the Scriptures, Christ Jesus, the cross and resurrection you are in a all out, online, attack on fellow brothers and sisters in Messiah holding to PSA-you are not going to muzzle me as you attempt to muzzle the others.
Enjoy your stay here-there is an election going on in South Africa.
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