Firstborn, protokos in Colossians 1:15

[101G]

Upon re-examining the passage, I realize I was talking about verse 18 rather than 15.

Verse 15 seems to be speaking of something prior to creation itself.

is not Jesus the one in verse15 and verse 18 in "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", and "Rank"?

'101G.

 

[Keiw1]

The only way it logically works is if Jesus is himself also YHVH.

And psalm 110:1 proves Jesus is not YHVH(Jehovah) = the utterance of Jehovah( LORD) to my Lord( Jesus) sit at MY right hand until I make your enemies as a stool for your feet.

 

[Keiw1]

This is JESUS, before HE became flesh = In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with Elohim and the Word was Elohim

He was in the beginning with Elohim.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”
These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him/the Word.

JESUS Says:
"no one has seen the Father except He who is in the Father"
"no one comes to the Father but thru Me" = always since Genesis chapter 1

Not one in the OT days knew the name Jesus, thus were not required to go through him to get to the Father.
Your religions twist into darkness--RUN FROM THEM.

 

[DavidTree]

Not one in the OT days knew the name Jesus, thus were not required to go through him to get to the Father.
Your religions twist into darkness--RUN FROM THEM.

GENESIS = In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.

 

[Dizerner]

And psalm 110:1 proves Jesus is not YHVH(Jehovah) = the utterance of Jehovah( LORD) to my Lord( Jesus) sit at MY right hand until I make your enemies as a stool for your feet.

That is no proof. YHWH is multi-personal. Our God becomes a man to save us—the Word becomes flesh.

 

[DavidTree]

That is no proof. YHWH is multi-personal. Our God becomes a man to save us—the Word becomes flesh.

Let's ask @Keiw1 this question:

Can the name 'Jehovah' save you from your sins?

 

[Keiw1]

GENESIS = In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.

a god=100% correct.

 

[Keiw1]

Let's ask @Keiw1 this question:

Can the name 'Jehovah' save you from your sins?

Joel 2:21-22--Those who call on the name of YHVH(Jehovah) will be saved--quoted 2 x in NT= Acts 2:21--Romans 10:13--Altered translations has LORD at Joel--carried into NT at both spots but like this Lord. YHVH(Jehovah) belongs at Joel not LORD. Thus both spots in NT = Jehovah not Lord.
Same at Luke 4:8-Matt 4:10= It is Jehovah your God you must worship and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.
Altered translations with Gods name removed=mislead.

 

[Fred]

Joel 2:21-22--Those who call on the name of YHVH(Jehovah) will be saved--quoted 2 x in NT= Acts 2:21--Romans 10:13--Altered translations has LORD at Joel--carried into NT at both spots but like this Lord.

Acts 2:21 is an exact quotation from Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the Septuagint).

 

[Keiw1]

Acts 2:21 is an exact quotation from Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the Septuagint).

Gods name belongs in those 3 spots.

 

[Fred]

Gods name belongs in those 3 spots.

Why did Luke quote exactly from Joel 3:5 in the Septuagint?


καὶ ἔσται πᾶς ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου σωθήσεται (Acts 2:21; Joel 3:5LXX)

 

[DavidTree]

a god=100% correct.

if you believe in "a god" then you break the FIRST Commandment

‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
‘You shall have no other gods before Me. - Deuteronomy 5:6-7

 

[TibiasDad]

Gen 1:26=Let us--verse 27--HE( not we or us) created all things) Prov 8:27-28=HE( not we or us) created all things.
I am YHVH(Jehovah) that maketh all things, by myself= no us or we)
making us at Gen 1:26= Jehovah( HE) And his master worker( Prov 8:30)= the one who was beside God during the creation of the universe= 100% 0 doubt=Jesus. Thus THROUGH Jesus( who worked) Jehovah by himself( only power source) created all things. --This is bible truth.

Isa 44:24“This is what the Lord says—
your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:
I am the Lord,
the Maker of all things,
who stretches out the heavens,
who spreads out the earth by myself,

There is a singular, personal, creator who worked alone to create all that has been created. John tells us that The Word created all that has been created. Thus, 1) the one who created “by myself”, is none other than “The Word” become flesh; and 2) The creator of all things cannot himself be created, for otherwise he didn’t created “all things” that have been created.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Why did Luke quote exactly from Joel 3:5 in the Septuagint?


καὶ ἔσται πᾶς ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου σωθήσεται (Acts 2:21; Joel 3:5LXX)

You mean a modern Septuagint=altered. They have real Septuagint fragments with Gods name in the NT.

 

[Keiw1]

if you believe in "a god" then you break the FIRST Commandment

‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
‘You shall have no other gods before Me. - Deuteronomy 5:6-7

You live in darkness sir because your second line at John 1;1 READS--And God was with God-- if the Word is God--how many Gods is that? Small g is NOT calling that one God--Satan is called god at 2 Cor 4:4=the same exact Greek word given to the Word at John 1:1

 

[Keiw1]

Isa 44:24“This is what the Lord says—
your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:
I am the Lord,
the Maker of all things,
who stretches out the heavens,
who spreads out the earth by myself,

There is a singular, personal, creator who worked alone to create all that has been created. John tells us that The Word created all that has been created. Thus, 1) the one who created “by myself”, is none other than “The Word” become flesh; and 2) The creator of all things cannot himself be created, for otherwise he didn’t created “all things” that have been created.


Doug

No John said-THROUGH Jesus things were created= Jehovah created all things by himself( only power source) THROUGH his master worker=Jesus--this is bible reality. Jesus worked--Jehovah created.

 

[DavidTree]

You live in darkness sir because your second line at John 1;1 READS--And God was with God-- if the Word is God--how many Gods is that? Small g is NOT calling that one God--Satan is called god at 2 Cor 4:4=the same exact Greek word given to the Word at John 1:1

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and Word was God.

John 1:2 - HE was in the beginning with God

John 1:3 - All things were made thru HIM/Word

Darkness is when we do not believe the Word was God then and claim to know God

 

[Keiw1]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and Word was God.

John 1:2 - HE was in the beginning with God

John 1:3 - All things were made thru HIM/Word

Darkness is when we do not believe the Word was God then and claim to know God

Fact--In every Greek manuscript ever the true God is called a totally different Greek word than the Word is called--there is only 1 possible difference of why= God and god.

 

[Fred]

You mean a modern Septuagint=altered. They have real Septuagint fragments with Gods name in the NT.

Please provide an example at Joel 3:5 in the Septuagint that backs up your claim.

 

[Fred]

Jesus worked--Jehovah created.

Did Jesus work in creating?

If not, then what work was He doing?