Biblical Facts against PSA !
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Diserner
Well-known member
If the light comes, embrace it.
It won't keep coming forever.
Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I don't see it that way. Through regeneration, God opens the eyes and ears to the truth, which itself is irresistible.
But, just for the sake of argument, if God "forced" depraved people to believe, it is still not unjust for God to punish those he didn't "force" to believe. We all deserve death and punishment. That's just and fair.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Is God's "justice" served by allowing some more opportunity than others?
Diserner
Well-known member
That's the heart of offense, isn't it.
A justice that doesn't seem just to us.
"O Lord, you know."
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Claiming to be "chosen" isn't new. It has been the claim of men almost from the beginning.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It is a reasonable question that should be answered. It shouldn't start a conversation but it is important.
Grace alleviates this issue. Not Justice. Justice cries for equal opportunity.
Diserner
Well-known member
Wrong solution!
It's the solution of pride.
Explain it to me God!
Make me feel good about it!
Justify yourself to me in a way that makes sense to me!
Make it grace because I don't like your justice!
Now read the book of Job.
And find the solution of humility.
And say, maybe I wasn't so smart.
Or holy.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Jesus created the original you. Your soul.
After all. He saved our souls, not our bodies.
He did not create the you that you became after the fall when Adam fell.
If all we could only be is what we became in Adam's fall?
He could have no part of us...
And, that is why....
He wants us back to be made to become (by grace) what He originally created our souls to be.
Grace's power restores our function of soul by stopping the rule of the flesh over our souls.
And, as far as honoring our flesh's desires? God crucified our flesh in Christ on the Cross!
We can not see that our flesh is dead now. But, God in His omniscience does see our flesh as dead.
That is why He sees those who habitually walk in the flesh as dead.
“To the angel of the church in Sardis write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.
I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead."
Revelation 3:1
New International Version
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Job had an issue that all of us have. It the issue of our existence.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
We "hear" about God from many sources. It is OUR duty to seek God.
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
The battle has never been with the fool that says there is no God. The battle has always been.... just "Who" is this God we serve. Most people have formed an idol of imagination. Not saying you have.
Some look at Job and see justice. I see Grace. Grace I try to extend to every man.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Its God's grace that provides equal opportunity.
For while God applies his grace in drawing us, grace is keeping our depraved flesh out of the decision making.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I'm not complete without the parts that form "me". It is why our bodies are resurrected.
Nonsense. He has targeted our bodies for incorruptibility.
Nonsense. If God abandoned us over our sin, then He would have anything to do with any of us. It is why the claims of "justice" that come from this arguments are so.... empty.
God chastens those He loves. God rebukes in lovingkindness. Sin doesn't drive Him away from us no more than dirt causes you to abandon your car/truck to another. God is not challenged by sin.
Nonsense. He still knows that we are but dust........ He knows our frame.
Gen 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
Grace extended to those at Sardis. God talks to those He loves.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
So God is an Equal Opportunity Employer? Given the murderers and swindlers in the Bible whom God chose to favor, it sounds more like God is into Affirmative Action.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Your present body has been crucified with Christ. Galatians 2:20
Your crucified body is now consisting of the dust of this earth.
The same earth which is doomed for destruction from whence your body came.
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar;
the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be
burned up.
Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be?
You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed
its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements
will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven
and a new earth, where righteousness dwells." 2 Peter 3:10-13
That means?
When you are resurrected you will receive a new kind of body totally different than the one you have now.
Jesus no longer has the same body material as he needed to have in order to die in our place.
Our home is not this earth. Our home is Heaven. And,our body will be accordingly constructed.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 2 Cor 5:17
As a bride lives with her husband in his home.... The Lord's home is Heaven!
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior
from there, the Lord Jesus Christ." Philippians 3:20
Your resurrection body will be from Heaven! A body just like His own glorious body. No longer a body of the dust of the earth!
The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven." 1 Cor 15:47
We will be resurrected, but your body will not be your old one simply cleaned up and made like new.
It will be totally new in nature and structure.
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another
and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the
splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another." 1 Cor 15:38-40
We have much to learn...
And, for the ornery... much to distort.
grace and peace...
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GeneZ
Well-known member
Not the case. Affirmative action is being a respecter of persons.
God is not a respecter of persons! Romans 2:11
Keep in mind.
David murdered Bathsheba's husband.
And, Paul murdered Christians.
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GeneZ
Well-known member
What do you mean by "generational?"
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Your present body has been crucified with Christ.
Your crucified body is now consisting of the dust of this earth.
The same earth which is doomed for destruction from whence your body came.
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar;
the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be
burned up.
Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be?
You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed
its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements
will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven
and a new earth, where righteousness dwells." 2 Peter 3:10-13
That means?
When you are resurrected you will receive a new kind of body totally different than the one you have now.
Jesus no longer has the same body material as he needed to have in order to die in our place.
Our home is not this earth. Our home is Heaven. And,our body will be accordingly constructed.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 2 Cor 5:17
As a bride lives with her husband in his home.... The Lord's home is Heaven!
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior
from there, the Lord Jesus Christ." Philippians 3:20
Your resurrection body will be from Heaven! A body just like His own glorious body. No longer a body of the dust of the earth!
The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven." 1 Cor 15:47
We will be resurrected, but your body will not be your old one simply cleaned up and made like new.
It will be totally new in nature and structure.
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another
and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the
splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another." 1 Cor 15:38-40
We have much to learn...
And, for the ornery... much to distort.
grace and peace!
You're conflating. I have a heavenly body awaiting my death. My current body will changed at the Resurrection. It will not be abandoned. It will be changed.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
GeneZ
Well-known member
You will not have the same body. It will be changed.
Just like the serpent in the Garden was totally transformed into something its body was not before.
Do you understand what 'changed/transformed' means?
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly
bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. Philippians 3:20-21
I know you like to argue.
But do you like to make yourself look stupid, too?
I am being Biblical in what I just said...
Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid." Proverbs 12:1
but whoever hates correction is stupid." Proverbs 12:1
If you really want to?
Find a better way to argue...
Don't shoot yourself in the foot to try to prove the shoes are poorly designed.
Proverbs 12:1
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You're the one that said this body was destined for destruction. Not me.
I like to the discuss the Truth. Arguing is sometimes part of the process. I'm not the one calling someone "stupid".
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