An Article on free will

[Kermos]

@TomL

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

 

[Rockson]

“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

The wise and intelligent here aren't truly wise and intelligent. We can both agree with that. But such doesn't mean they couldn't have or that they didn't have the capacity to receive the word of God and Jesus teachings with humility and meekness. To those who do so and choose to do so the truth of God's word becomes realized and will change their lives. To ones he calls babes it's to ones of whom they chose the receive the Kingdom of God like a child. It was they who chose how they were going to receive the word of God not God. It's not God putting in them meekness or humility it rather they choosing to be this way.

 

[TomL]

Praise the Lord Jesus for this marvelous post!

Sadly, @TomL and free-willians fail to perceive the Truth (John 14:6) because the Living God says “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from above he cannot see the Kingdom of God” (John 3:3).

Kermos distorts the meaning of see in the context

John 3:3–5 (KJV 1900) — 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Thus he fails to allow scripture to interpret itself

but he does not stop at ignoring context he ignores the lexicons as well

5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3. θάνατον see death=die Lk 2:26; Hb 11:5 (cf. Ps 88:49; Anth. Pal. 6, 230 ἰδεῖν Ἀίδην); grief Rv 18:7 (cf. 1 Macc 13:3 τὰς στενοχωρίας; Eccl 6:6 ἀγαθωσύνην). τὴν διαφθοράν experience decay=decay Ac 2:27, 31; 13:35-7 (all Ps 15:10); τ. ἡμέραν (Soph., Oed. R. 831; Aristoph., Pax 345; Polyb. 10, 4, 7; 32, 10, 9; Ael. Aristid. 32 p. 601 D.; Lam 2:16; Jos., Ant. 6, 305): τὴν ἡμέραν τ. ἐμήν J 8:56; μίαν τῶν ἡμερῶν Lk 17:22.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 221.

and even the vommentary of his peers

He cannot see the kingdom of God (οὐ δυναται ἰδειν την βασιλειαν του θεου [ou dunatai idein tēn basileian tou theou]). To participate in it as in Luke 9:27. For this use of ἰδειν [idein] (second aorist active infinitive of ὁραω [horaō]) see John 8:51; Rev. 18:7.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 3:3.

By this statement, he means, “So long as you lack what is first in God’s Kingdom, it does not impress me that you call me Master. For the first step into the Kingdom of God is that you become a new man.” This sentence is so weighty that we must look into each part of it separately. To see the Kingdom of God is to enter it, as we shall soon see from the context

Joseph Haroutunian and Louise Pettibone Smith, Calvin: Commentaries (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1958), 138.

cannot see—can have no part in (just as one is said to “see life,” “see death,” &c.).

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 131.

thus we see a familar pattern Kermos extolls doctrine which is not supported by scriptural context, the lexical data or peer commentary.

They believe they are “wise and intelligent” in their own self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) to choose to believe in Jesus in spite of King Jesus of the Kingdom of God's blessed words“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

Poor Kermos fails to realise all men require revelation. Those who think they are wise in themselves he does not provide with further revelation. But those who are humble, meek he does

Psalm 25:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 The meek will he guide in judgment: And the meek will he teach his way. 10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth Unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies. 11 For thy name’s sake, O LORD, Pardon mine iniquity; for it is great. 12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? Him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.

@TomL and @Rockson believe they are “wise and intelligent” according to their own initiative to judge the Righteous One Christ Jesus, yet they fail to acknowledge Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24).

Kermos continues his distortion of scripture and the words of others

Luke 12:57 (KJV 1900) — 57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

Here Christ tells men to judge what is right

Yes, they judge Christ as worthy or unworthy to save them from the wrath of God, so the prior paragraph's "according to their own initiative to judge the Righteous One Christ Jesus" is no typo. They fail to acknowledge the finished work of Christ on the cross shedding His precious Blood. In Free-willian Philosophy, the finishing work of Christ on the cross is the free-willian's choosing Jesus.

Kermos also bears false witness

as no one denies Christ as worthy to save nor does anyone deny the finished work of Christ

Ignoring context, ignoring lexical data, ignoring peer commentary and bearing false witness are not means of sound argumentation

TomL wrote "Never is the answer [man does] nothing but it is believe, repent" as recorded in post #2,501 with respect to every question along the lines of "what must I do to be saved", but in typical free-willian denial of the Holy Word of God, he does not receive:

Kermos also denies the word of Jesus

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

which in context is to believe

He denies the words of Peter to convicted Jews as well

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

And of certain apostles to the Philippian jailor as well

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

He would reply in case there is nothing for you to do

he would not tell men to repent nor would he tell them to believe

Such possibilities do not exist in his theology

 

[TomL]

@TomL

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God

Kermos' deception ignores the fact Christ chose his apostle, his messenger who would bear witness of him

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

Examine

John 15:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Christ is chosing his witnesses to his earthly ministry. Kermos' deception would have you to believe he is choosing who will be unconditionally saved. A concept which never appears in all of scripture so he must find a way to insert it into scripture where it does not appear

1. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)

Kermos' deception denies the very words of Christ

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Where Jesus states to labor or to work Kermos' deception would say do not labor, do not work

1. 
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God

Kwermos distortion here would assume faith the gift which god infuses in man

but scripture tells us the gift is eternal life

Romans 6:23–7:1 (ESV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. 1 Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives?

further in the context of the verse we are told the gift is not of works - that one cannot easrn salvation by doing good work

To say faith is not the result of good works is nonsense no one would ever argue

Aside from which we know faith and repentance are the responsibility of man not God

John 6:27–29 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Acts 2:37–38 (ESV) — 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — . 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

kermos deception that you are to do nothing is plainly contrary to scripture

1. 
   
2. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)

Kermos' deception ignore the full context

Nicodemus confused asks

John 3:9–15 (ESV) — 9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?”

Jesus does not leave the question unanswered

10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

 

[Kermos]

Sorry the issue is the relationship between repentance and life

Your confused conflating of the word of God and life is nonsense

repentance is unto life or as the NASB puts it

Acts 11:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

repentance which leads to life

Only someone terminally brainwashed could imagine that repentance does not come before the issuing of life




Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

First the issue is the order of repentance and life

repentance leads to life

basic word meaning show repentance must precede life

Second grants does not meansto infuse

The gentiles repented at the word of Peter. The spirit bearing witness they believed

Acts 15:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

as was noted




Um regarding your definition transfer God is not transferring a property or deed. Did you imagine he takes from his own faith and transfers it to another

To repent is a function of man

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

They were to repent

God can enable repentance by the word as he did with the gentiles but the gentiles themselves repented as the Holy Spirit bore witness

God can't repent for man

He can send someone with a message of repentance as he did with Peter and Jonah

Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

he can give opportunity for repentance

Revelation 2:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.




Sorry but it was already shown

1 God does not transfer repentance

2 God cannot repent for you

3 Man must repent

given the above facts, it is not possible God unilaterally infuses repentance into man



As already shown context is not dealing with the transfer of property but of a function man himself must do

You simply ignore the biblical context centered around the word repent





Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.


Kermos' deception


Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles infuses life and then repentance into the gentiles.


but they did not testify

Then hath God also to the Gentiles has transfered his faith to the gentiles

nor did they say God irresistibly infused repentance into the gentiles.

God repented for the gentiles



So why are you trying to give them life outside of Christ that they might believe and repent

You reverse the biblical order

it is repent to life

it is believe to life

it is to choose life

Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


end pt1

Life in Christ.

Your "the issue is the relationship between repentance and life" is wrong. The issue is your denial that God causes repentance, and the following shows that God produces repentance (Acts 11:18, 2 Corinthians 7:8-10, Matthew 11:25).

Again your reading comprehension must be challenged

repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life

A person cannot "think differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("think differently after" = repent); therefore, your cognitive logic concepts are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your "repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life" is your heart putting a person "thinking differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("thinking differently after" = repenting).

The word unto or to is eis

Eis is a preposition which denotes movement toward a goal or destination

here the motion is to life

Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

to grant does not mean to irresistibly infuse

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

to grant is to enable, permit, allow

Your linguistic skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the word “grant” means to transfer, give, impart, confer (www.thefreedictionary.com/grant).

Your definition for grant "enable, permit, allow
" is deficient because you neglect to include grant's definition of "transfer, give, impart, confer".

For example, grant deed transfers ownership of land to a recipient, and a grant deed can be executed without any contribution made by the recipient, not even a signature on the grant deed document; therefore, the grant deed can mean to irresistibly [cause] the recipient of the grant deed to own said property.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Apostles literally testified ”God has granted to the Gentiles repentance to life”
(Acts 11:18), so your post’s “to grant does not mean to irresistibly [cause]” is false free-willian philosophy.

In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ (John 14:6).

there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

your theology denies scripture and the centrality of Christ in salvation

You wrote "there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ".

Life in Christ is governed by “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except because of Me” (the Word of God, John 14:6).

Faith in Christ is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Word of God, John 6:29).

God causes man's Life in Christ (John 14:6), and God causes man's Faith in Christ (John 6:29), and God causes man's repentance in Christ (Matthew 11:25). These are wonderful Spiritual blessings in Christ. Praise Jesus!

No Holy Scripture you cite states that man causes man's Life in Christ, nor man causes man's Faith in Christ, nor man causes man's repentance in Christ.

You lay claim to yourself "denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ" inside of your own post.

You really resist the below quoted Holy Scripture.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

continued from post #2,651

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HOLY AND LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[TomL]

Sorry the issue is the relationship between repentance and life

Your confused conflating of the word of God and life is nonsense

repentance is unto life or as the NASB puts it

Acts 11:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

repentance which leads to life

Only someone terminally brainwashed could imagine that repentance does not come before the issuing of life



Kermos
Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

First the issue is the order of repentance and life

repentance leads to life

basic word meaning show repentance must precede life

Second grants does not mean to infuse

The gentiles repented at the word of Peter. The spirit bearing witness they believed

Acts 15:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

as was noted




Um regarding your definition transfer God is not transferring a property or deed. Did you imagine he takes from his own faith and transfers it to another

To repent is a function of man

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

They were to repent

God can enable repentance by the word as he did with the gentiles but the gentiles themselves repented as the Holy Spirit bore witness

God can't repent for man

He can send someone with a message of repentance as he did with Peter and Jonah

Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

he can give opportunity for repentance

Revelation 2:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.




Sorry but it was already shown

1 God does not transfer repentance

2 God cannot repent for you

3 Man must repent

given the above facts, it is not possible God unilaterally infuses repentance into man



As already shown context is not dealing with the transfer of property but of a function man himself must do

You simply ignore the biblical context centered around the word repent



Kermos

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men	Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)	And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.


Kermos' deception


Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles infuses life and then repentance into the gentiles.


but they did not testify

Then hath God also to the Gentiles has transfered his faith to the gentiles

nor did they say God irresistibly infused repentance into the gentiles.

God repented for the gentiles



So why are you trying to give them life outside of Christ that they might believe and repent

You reverse the biblical order

it is repent to life

it is believe to life

it is to choose life

Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


end pt1

Kermos
Life in Christ.

Your "the issue is the relationship between repentance and life" is wrong. The issue is your denial that God causes repentance, and the following shows that God produces repentance (Acts 11:18, 2 Corinthians 7:8-10, Matthew 11:25).

Sorry repentance is unto life. We do not read life unto repentance

Again you have distorted and twisted the word of God to suit your doctrine

Again your reading comprehension must be challenged

repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life

Kermos
A person cannot "think differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("think differently after" = repent); therefore, your cognitive logic concepts are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33).

The issue is not encountering the word but the order of life and repentance

Why do you attempt such distortion

Kermos
Your "repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life" is your heart putting a person "thinking differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("thinking differently after" = repenting).

scripture

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Kermos' deception

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted life unto repentance.

The word unto or to is eis

Eis is a preposition which denotes movement toward a goal or destination

here the motion is to life

Kermos
Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

Kermos actually refutes his own position

For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation,

repentance is unto salvation - life

if kermos' view had any merit the verse would read God produces life leading to repentance

to grant does not mean to irresistibly infuse

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

to grant is to enable, permit, allow

Kermos
Your linguistic skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the word “grant” means to transfer, give, impart, confer (www.thefreedictionary.com/grant).

Your definition for grant "enable, permit, allow
" is deficient because you neglect to include grant's definition of "transfer, give, impart, confer".

There is no transference in Acts 11:18


Did you imagine God transfers his faith to men

compare

Acts 4:29 (KJV 1900) — 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,

Acts 4:29 (NIV) — 29 Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness.

John 6:65 (ESV) — 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”


John 6:65 (NIV) — 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

grant and enable are used interchangeably

Kermos
For example, grant deed transfers ownership of land to a recipient, and a grant deed can be executed without any contribution made by the recipient, not even a signature on the grant deed document; therefore, the grant deed can mean to irresistibly [cause] the recipient of the grant deed to own said property.

There is no land transfer in Acts 11:18

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men	Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)	And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Apostles literally testified ”God has granted to the Gentiles repentance to life”
(Acts 11:18), so your post’s “to grant does not mean to irresistibly [cause]” is false free-willian philosophy.

In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ (John 14:6).

And one becomes in Christ when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

hello

Your doctrine attempts to impart life apart from Christ

as stated

there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

your theology denies scripture and the centrality of Christ in salvation
Click to expand...

Kermos
You wrote "there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ".

Life in Christ is governed by “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except because of Me” (the Word of God, John 14:6).

yep and you did not address them

Why not

there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Your theology denies that all spiritual blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

thus denies scripture and the centrality of Christ in salvation

Kermos
Faith in Christ is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Word of God, John 6:29).

Kermos deception once again controverts the words of Christ

scripture
John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Kermos deception

Do not do anything for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Kermos
God causes man's Life in Christ (John 14:6),

For those who believe

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

He does not give life that they might believe as your deception holds

Kermos
God causes man's Faith in Christ (John 6:29), and God causes man's repentance in Christ (Matthew 11:25). These are wonderful Spiritual blessings in Christ. Praise Jesus!

Again denying the word of Christ

John 6:27–40 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Kermos
No Holy Scripture you cite states that man causes man's Life in Christ, nor man causes man's Faith in Christ, nor man causes man's repentance in Christ.

God gives life to those who believe


John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

No one believes as you deceptively post that man gives himself life

Kermos
You lay claim to yourself "denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ" inside of your own post.

Wrong all who believe are in Christ

while your theology grants election and regeneration apart from the experience of being in Christ'

it is a deception

 

[Kermos]

Sorry repentance is unto life. We do not read life unto repentance

Again you have distorted and twisted the word of God to suit your doctrine




The issue is not encountering the word but the order of life and repentance

Why do you attempt such distortion




scripture

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Kermos' deception

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted life unto repentance.








Kermos actually refutes his own position

For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation,

repentance is unto salvation - life

if kermos' view had any merit the verse would read God produces life leading to repentance






There is no transference in Acts 11:18


Did you imagine God transfers his faith to men

compare

Acts 4:29 (KJV 1900) — 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,

Acts 4:29 (NIV) — 29 Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness.

John 6:65 (ESV) — 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”


John 6:65 (NIV) — 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

grant and enable are used interchangeably





There is no land transfer in Acts 11:18





And one becomes in Christ when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

hello

Your doctrine attempts to impart life apart from Christ

as stated




yep and you did not address them

Why not

there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Your theology denies that all spiritual blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

thus denies scripture and the centrality of Christ in salvation





Kermos deception once again controverts the words of Christ

scripture
John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Kermos deception

Do not do anything for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”





For those who believe

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

He does not give life that they might believe as your deception holds






Again denying the word of Christ

John 6:27–40 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.



God gives life to those who believe


John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

No one believes as you deceptively post that man gives himself life



Wrong all who believe are in Christ

while your theology grants election and regeneration apart from the experience of being in Christ'

it is a deception

You are dead wrong with "you have distorted and twisted the word of God".

Your "the issue is the relationship between repentance and life" is wrong. The issue is your denial that God causes repentance, and the following shows that God produces repentance (Acts 11:18, 2 Corinthians 7:8-10, Matthew 11:25).

Sorry the issue is the relationship between repentance and life

Your confused conflating of the word of God and life is nonsense

repentance is unto life or as the NASB puts it

Acts 11:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

repentance which leads to life

Only someone terminally brainwashed could imagine that repentance does not come before the issuing of life




Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

First the issue is the order of repentance and life

repentance leads to life

basic word meaning show repentance must precede life

Second grants does not meansto infuse

The gentiles repented at the word of Peter. The spirit bearing witness they believed

Acts 15:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

as was noted




Um regarding your definition transfer God is not transferring a property or deed. Did you imagine he takes from his own faith and transfers it to another

To repent is a function of man

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

They were to repent

God can enable repentance by the word as he did with the gentiles but the gentiles themselves repented as the Holy Spirit bore witness

God can't repent for man

He can send someone with a message of repentance as he did with Peter and Jonah

Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

he can give opportunity for repentance

Revelation 2:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.




Sorry but it was already shown

1 God does not transfer repentance

2 God cannot repent for you

3 Man must repent

given the above facts, it is not possible God unilaterally infuses repentance into man



As already shown context is not dealing with the transfer of property but of a function man himself must do

You simply ignore the biblical context centered around the word repent





Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.


Kermos' deception


Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles infuses life and then repentance into the gentiles.


but they did not testify

Then hath God also to the Gentiles has transfered his faith to the gentiles

nor did they say God irresistibly infused repentance into the gentiles.

God repented for the gentiles



So why are you trying to give them life outside of Christ that they might believe and repent

You reverse the biblical order

it is repent to life

it is believe to life

it is to choose life

Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


end pt1

Life in Christ.

Again your reading comprehension must be challenged

repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life

A person cannot "think differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("think differently after" = repent); therefore, your cognitive logic concepts are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your "repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life" is your heart putting a person "thinking differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("thinking differently after" = repenting).

The word unto or to is eis

Eis is a preposition which denotes movement toward a goal or destination

here the motion is to life

Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

to grant does not mean to irresistibly infuse

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

to grant is to enable, permit, allow

Your linguistic skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the word “grant” means to transfer, give, impart, confer (www.thefreedictionary.com/grant).

Your definition for grant "enable, permit, allow
" is deficient because you neglect to include grant's definition of "transfer, give, impart, confer".

For example, grant deed transfers ownership of land to a recipient, and a grant deed can be executed without any contribution made by the recipient, not even a signature on the grant deed document; therefore, the grant deed can mean to irresistibly [cause] the recipient of the grant deed to own said property.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Apostles literally testified ”God has granted to the Gentiles repentance to life”
(Acts 11:18), so your post’s “to grant does not mean to irresistibly [cause]” is false free-willian philosophy.

In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ (John 14:6).

there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

your theology denies scripture and the centrality of Christ in salvation

You wrote "there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ".

Life in Christ is governed by “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except because of Me” (the Word of God, John 14:6).

Faith in Christ is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Word of God, John 6:29).

God causes man's Life in Christ (John 14:6), and God causes man's Faith in Christ (John 6:29), and God causes man's repentance in Christ (Matthew 11:25). These are wonderful Spiritual blessings in Christ. Praise Jesus!

No Holy Scripture you cite states that man causes man's Life in Christ, nor man causes man's Faith in Christ, nor man causes man's repentance in Christ.

You lay claim to yourself "denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ" inside of your own post.

You really resist the below quoted Holy Scripture.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

continued from post #2,651

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HOLY AND LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[TomL]

You are dead wrong with "you have distorted and twisted the word of God".

Your "the issue is the relationship between repentance and life" is wrong. The issue is your denial that God causes repentance, and the following shows that God produces repentance (Acts 11:18, 2 Corinthians 7:8-10, Matthew 11:25).



Life in Christ.



A person cannot "think differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("think differently after" = repent); therefore, your cognitive logic concepts are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your "repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life" is your heart putting a person "thinking differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("thinking differently after" = repenting).



Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).



Your linguistic skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the word “grant” means to transfer, give, impart, confer (www.thefreedictionary.com/grant).

Your definition for grant "enable, permit, allow
" is deficient because you neglect to include grant's definition of "transfer, give, impart, confer".

For example, grant deed transfers ownership of land to a recipient, and a grant deed can be executed without any contribution made by the recipient, not even a signature on the grant deed document; therefore, the grant deed can mean to irresistibly [cause] the recipient of the grant deed to own said property.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Apostles literally testified ”God has granted to the Gentiles repentance to life”
(Acts 11:18), so your post’s “to grant does not mean to irresistibly [cause]” is false free-willian philosophy.

In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ (John 14:6).



You wrote "there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ".

Life in Christ is governed by “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except because of Me” (the Word of God, John 14:6).

Faith in Christ is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Word of God, John 6:29).

God causes man's Life in Christ (John 14:6), and God causes man's Faith in Christ (John 6:29), and God causes man's repentance in Christ (Matthew 11:25). These are wonderful Spiritual blessings in Christ. Praise Jesus!

No Holy Scripture you cite states that man causes man's Life in Christ, nor man causes man's Faith in Christ, nor man causes man's repentance in Christ.

You lay claim to yourself "denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ" inside of your own post.

You really resist the below quoted Holy Scripture.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

​

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).​

​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

continued from post #2,651

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HOLY AND LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

this is a repeat

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94953

 

[TomL]

​

Kermos​

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Notice how kermos self refutes, Repentance leads to salvation i.e. life

Kermos would put life before repentance, reversing the words of scripture

Kermos
Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

And you are still stuck with

Acts 11:18 (ESV) — 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

The Calvinist idea man must be made alive before he can believe or repent is contrary to scripture

one must repent to be made alive

man must believe to be made alive

Acts 11:18 (ESV) — 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

man must believe to be saved

Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation"

Kermos
NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

Um except according to God means the focus of repentance is toward God not toward the world or earthly sorrows

It says nothing at all about God infusing repentance in man and repentance remains man's responsibility

Acts 2:37–38 (ESV) — 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Ezekiel 14:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

Ezekiel 18:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Matthew 3:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 4:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

etc

Kermos ignores much scripture

Kermos

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

Revelation 2:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Matthew 11:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

The bible does not share your belief of infused repentance

 

[Kermos]

This is undoubtedly the worst defense for man's free will I have ever read, pitiful! That's what a Ph.D. does for men, it deceives them, causing them to think they are wiser than the average believer. I rather listen to a fishermen, or carpenter, or any blue collar worker sharing his mediation of the scriptures any day of the week!

You wrote "or carpenter". You are so clear! I love the Jewish Carpenter named Jesus! How many times have you listened to a fisherman named Peter (his writings), Red Baker?

Among the fisherman Peter's blessed writings for us to hear is "know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (2 Peter 1:20-21); therefore, any person of today must have the Holy Spirit in order to think the Truth (John 14:6) - that one’s own interpretation is the same as "one’s own self-willed thoughts".

Speaking of self-willed, the Apostle Peter covers God's control over man with "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10), so we find that self-willed persons despise God's authority over man's faith as per the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Well, back to Peter's Holy Spirit inspired writing about God's requirement that a person have the Holy Spirit to understand Holy Scripture because no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21).

We find Peter agrees with the Jewish Carpenter, Lord Jesus Christ saying:

I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
(John 16:7-11)
​

In essence, a Ph.D. in Free-willian Philosophy is a Ph.D. in pridefulness.

A Ph.D. or anyone in Free-willian Philosophy who espouses fleshy thoughts such as "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit – The spirit himself after repentance" instead of Spiritual thoughts shows the Ph.D.'s deeds of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21) instead of fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

Here is post #2,550 which records an actual free-willian's "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit – The spirit himself after repentance" in spite of all the posts containing this precious and pure Word of God “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)!

 

[TomL]

“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Still twisting scripture

Jesus stated

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Kermos makes Jesus a liar

and states

Labour not for the meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

 

[Kermos]

Sorry it is your understanding I reject not the text

This is what i stated in the post you reply to





The text above shows how deceptive you comments are. It was not Just calvin

and the argument presented came from scripture. It was supported by Calvinist who hold to the theology you hold

Men such as Calvin and Barne's

Calvinist commentary from the geneva bible

Non Calvinist sources

Marvin Vincent Marcus Dod and Henry Alford




And you are simply repeating the same thing over and over

Ignoring the fact i presented an argument base of scripture and supported it by six sources of commentary

while you simply quote yourself and assume your view apart from context


Hardly

John 6:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

that is the word of God from Jesus christ himself first telling them they are to work and then the work they must do is to believe

Something seen repeatedly throughout John's gospel while your theology of God infusing faith in man appears nowhere


John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

how much exegesis do you need to see the apostle believes men might believe the truth based upon the baptists witness

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

how much exegesis do you need to see Christ states had they believed Moses they would believe him


John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis do you need to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men believe based on the apostles testimony

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Lets see men can believe if they believer john, Moses, A women at the well, the apostles, John's gosperl

what do you have to offer but your own repeat assumptions posted over and over

You have to begin by ignoring the very words of Christ

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Jesus tells them to labor

Your theology says there is no labor for you to do

Your theology has no labor for them, and starts by contradicting the text showing itself to be a product of man and not scripture

Regarding your quotation of:

John 6:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
​

you wrote your utter deception:

"that is the word of God from Jesus christ himself first telling them they are to work and then the work they must do is to believe"
​

because the Word of God, Jesus Christ Himself, did not utter "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God", truly that is man speaking, not Jesus speaking; therefore, your "that is the word of God from Jesus christ himself first telling them they are to work and then the work they must do is to believe" is anti-truth.

Clearly, the Author and Perfecter of the Belief Lord Jesus removed man as the cause for saving belief in "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (the Word of God, John 6:29) because this is Jesus speaking, but you reject the Word of God again with your heart's thoughts "that is the word of God from Jesus christ himself first telling them they are to work and then the work they must do is to believe" (proof post #2,644).

No Scripture you cite states God imparted man the ability to choose to believe in God, so your free-willian philosophy is dead false.

Your heart's treasure "John 6:28 establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God John 6:29" (proof post #2,643) subjugates the Word of God as inferior to the word of man, that is, your context is the traditions of man (Matthew 15:9); in other words, your treasure adulterates the Holy Word of God resulting in a replacement thing called the word of TomL.

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29)		Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that His sayings are pure, clear, and precise “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you practice lawlessness with your "Utter nonsense" about the Word of God recorded in John 6:29 (proof post #2,126), and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

You do not receive "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29) which declares who God is and who man is.

The King of Glory's the work of God specifically includes God's work while specifically excluding "the work of man"; therefore, every mention of saving faith/belief in the Holy Scripture is governed by King Jesus' blessed definition.

The full and complete context of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Author and Perfecter of the faith, John 6:29) is specifically “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

As is evident, you call “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) your abominable "Utter nonsense" (proof post #1,116).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

 

[Red Baker]

Acts 2:37–38 (ESV) — 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

This post is for the benefit of @ The Rogue Tomato; and @Kermos and any other who desires the truth.

Tom above quoted a few scriptures mostly out of context, time will not allow me to go in detail and prove it, nor do I even have a desire to do so, since I have spent way too many posts on him, in area of Soteriology, to a point it is almost sinful to continue in doing more.

Repentance for a person who is at enmity against God is a free gift and the product of the new man where the Spirit of Christ dwells.

Acts 2:38 is a prime example of this truth. Peter was speaking to people who had ask him what shall they do after being pricked in their hearts by the Spirit of the Living God, which can only happen to those already born of the Spirit of God. We have already covered this two to three times in depth.

Matthew 12:41~The men of Nineveh that repented at the preaching of Jonah that shall rise up against this generation is the key of understanding why some repented and others did not. Those that repented were elect children of God and those that did not were of the men whom the scriptures terms this generation! Almost exclusively this generation has reference to evil and wicked men living among the chosen generation of God's people.

Consider: https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/this_generation_shall_not_pass_until_all_be_fulfilled.shtml

 

[TomL]

This post is for the benefit of @ The Rogue Tomato; and @Kermos and any other who desires the truth.

Tom above quoted a few scriptures mostly out of context, time will not allow me to go in detail and prove it, nor do I even have a desire to do so,

Translation you made an empty claim

since I have spent way too many posts on him, in area of Soteriology, to a point it is almost sinful to continue in doing more.

Repentance for a person who is at enmity against God is a free gift and the product of the new man where the Spirit of Christ dwells.

Acts 2:38 is a prime example of this truth. Peter was speaking to people who had ask him what shall they do after being pricked in their hearts by the Spirit of the Living God, which can only happen to those already born of the Spirit of God. We have already covered this two to three times in depth.

Begging the question, assuming your view, and ignoring the fact faith precedes life

Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life



The following verses show faith precedes life

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -

One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection.



We are raised spiritually through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

.

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Matthew 12:41~The men of Nineveh that repented at the preaching of Jonah that shall rise up against this generation is the key of understanding why some repented and others did not. Those that repented were elect children of God and those that did not were of the men whom the scriptures terms this generation! Almost exclusively this generation has reference to evil and wicked men living among the chosen generation of God's people.

Consider: https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/this_generation_shall_not_pass_until_all_be_fulfilled.shtml

Eisegesis. Nowhere in the passage is there any mention of unconditional elect. Calvinism must assume its tenets because they are not found in scripture

 

[TomL]

Regarding your quotation of:

​

John 6:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.​

​

you wrote your utter deception:

​

"that is the word of God from Jesus christ himself first telling them they are to work and then the work they must do is to believe"​

​

because the Word of God, Jesus Christ Himself, did not utter "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God", truly that is man speaking, not Jesus speaking; therefore, your "that is the word of God from Jesus christ himself first telling them they are to work and then the work they must do is to believe" is anti-truth.

Clearly, the Author and Perfecter of the Belief Lord Jesus removed man as the cause for saving belief in "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (the Word of God, John 6:29) because this is Jesus speaking, but you reject the Word of God again with your heart's thoughts "that is the word of God from Jesus christ himself first telling them they are to work and then the work they must do is to believe" (proof post #2,644).

No Scripture you cite states God imparted man the ability to choose to believe in God, so your free-willian philosophy is dead false.

Your heart's treasure "John 6:28 establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God John 6:29" (proof post #2,643) subjugates the Word of God as inferior to the word of man, that is, your context is the traditions of man (Matthew 15:9); in other words, your treasure adulterates the Holy Word of God resulting in a replacement thing called the word of TomL.

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29)		Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that His sayings are pure, clear, and precise “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you practice lawlessness with your "Utter nonsense" about the Word of God recorded in John 6:29 (proof post #2,126), and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

You do not receive "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29) which declares who God is and who man is.

The King of Glory's the work of God specifically includes God's work while specifically excluding "the work of man"; therefore, every mention of saving faith/belief in the Holy Scripture is governed by King Jesus' blessed definition.

The full and complete context of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Author and Perfecter of the faith, John 6:29) is specifically “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

As is evident, you call “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) your abominable "Utter nonsense" (proof post #1,116).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94452

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94463

You have twisted the words of Christ

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

He stated there is something they must do

you make him a liar and say there is nothing to do

flatly contradicting Christ with your unbiblical doctrine

 

[Kermos]

You have twisted the words of Christ

You bear false witness against me.

God caused me to exhibit precisely where you perverted the Word of God in your heart in the very post to which you replied.

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

He stated there is something they must do

you make him a liar and say there is nothing to do

flatly contradicting Christ with your unbiblical doctrine

Every Christian Believing In The Son Whom The Father Has Sent Is The Work Of God​

A voice from Heaven was heard, saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5), and we Christians hear Christ.

Let's examine the context of the people's word, and, more importantly, the Word of God speaks the Truth (John 14:6) without human interpretation.

Let’s review the exchange:

they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
(John 6:28-33)
​

The people asked about their own work respecting salvation when they inquired “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28), yet Christ rightly removed man’s work from anyplace respecting salvation when He responded “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

The people failed to understand, just like free-willian philosophers, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29). Do not be deceived, "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The people followed up by asking/injecting the work of man, again, with “Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness” (John 6:31) in a manner that free-willian philosophers listen to the people instead of "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Lord shifts the focus from man’s purported control to God’s Sovereign control, this second time in the same exchange, with “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
(John 6:32-33). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

Behold, the Word of God establishes that faith/belief is given by God without any contribution by man (John 6:29) and, in like manner, life is given by the bread of God without any contribution by man (John 6:32-33).

PRAISE JESUS FOR HIS LOVINGKINDNESS!!!

In Truth (John 14:6), the Christ of us Christians intensifies that God works man regarding saving faith/belief, not man working, but truly the Bread of Life (John 6:35) as exclusive Savior!

Free-willian Philosophers convey things like “They obviously understood jesus to be saying what God requires of you is that you believe” (the word of TomL, see post #1,818) about the people recorded in John 6:28-33 in order for the free-willian heart’s treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) to justify adulterating the Word of God resulting in “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man, see Matthew 15:9).

The Lord uses the continuing exchange to illumine the people's, and free-willian, ignorance. The Word of God is precise and pure “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) - "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

This examination needs to expand to the larger passage of "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (John 6:27), but this would be incomplete without the intervening passage culminating with "Then they said to Him, 'Lord, always give us this bread.' Jesus said to them, 'I am the Bread of Life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst'" (John 6:34-35).

Do not be confused about the "who comes to Me" in John 6:35 because the Lord says "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21), so we Christians work for God because God wrings our work/deeds out of us!

In John 6:27 and John 6:34-35, Jesus says He is our Christian's food (John 6:27), our Christian Bread of Life (John 6:35). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Christ of us Christians says "I am the Living Bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh" (John 6:51).

We Christians work (John 6:27) for the Bread of Life (John 6:35) according to the Power of God (John 3:21), so we proclaim the glorious King of the Kingdom of God in the Power of God to the world; therefore, this "proclaiming" is working for the food enduring to eternal life (John 6:27). Christ gives Himself, the Bread of Life, to us Christians for we Christians partake in the food of the Body and Blood of Christ, so our wonderful Leader sustains and strengthens us for the works prepared for us beforehand by God to the Glory of God! God has set His seal on us Christians, that is, our seal is our very believing in the Son whom the Father has sent by the Grace of God for the Glory of God!

Praise the Lord for He explains our Christian work (John 6:27) is to eat the Bread of Life (John 6:35, John 6:51). Christ says "work" "for the food" (John 6:27) which means "work for Christ" as in fruit of the Spirit of the Living God (see bearing fruit in John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and Galatians 5:22-23), so Christ says not that believing in Christ is the work of man, so this means free-willian philosopher's "He told them there was a certain type of work they were to do and it was the work of faith so stop trying to twist the passage and say it wasn't so" (the word of Rockson regarding John 6:27, see post #1,847) is false according to the Word of God!

Free-willian Philosophers are under the delusion that "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (tthe Word of God, John 6:27) in their hearts translates to "Do not work for the food which perishes, but YOU HAVE THE ABILITY IN YOUR OWN INITIATIVE TO WORK for the food which endures to eternal life, SO YOU MUST CHOOSE WHETHER TO ACCEPT THE FOOD THAT the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (the word of free-willians) in spite of the Word of God sayings “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right” (Luke 12:57) and
“you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

Free-willian's hearts even subtract "which the Son of Man will give to you" (John 6:27) about the food for which Jesus says "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). Jesus clearly states the righteous work of man is Fruit of the Spirit because the food is given by God to man which is another declaration about the exclusive power of God in the salvation of man. A crucial concept established by Jesus in John 6:27 is that the only people to receive Jesus' food are the people to whom Jesus gives the food, but free-willian philosophy ends up with people in hell who are failures of "the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). This paragraph's explanation is all in the recorded Word of God in John 6:27 without stepping to another verse. "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Word in John 6:27 refers to the man's work which is truly the act of God in man; on the other hand, the Word in John 6:29 refers to man's belief which is truly the act of God in man.

In the first moment (John 6:27), Lord Jesus explains the outward evidence of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and in the second moment (John 6:29), Jesus explains the inward event of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and this Father declares "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

 

[TomL]

You bear false witness against me.

God caused me to exhibit precisely where you perverted the Word of God in your heart in the very post to which you replied.

Every Christian Believing In The Son Whom The Father Has Sent Is The Work Of God​

A voice from Heaven was heard, saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5), and we Christians hear Christ.

Let's examine the context of the people's word, and, more importantly, the Word of God speaks the Truth (John 14:6) without human interpretation.

Let’s review the exchange:

​

they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”​

(John 6:28-33)​

​

The people asked about their own work respecting salvation when they inquired “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28), yet Christ rightly removed man’s work from anyplace respecting salvation when He responded “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

The people failed to understand, just like free-willian philosophers, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29). Do not be deceived, "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The people followed up by asking/injecting the work of man, again, with “Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness” (John 6:31) in a manner that free-willian philosophers listen to the people instead of "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Lord shifts the focus from man’s purported control to God’s Sovereign control, this second time in the same exchange, with “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
(John 6:32-33). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

Behold, the Word of God establishes that faith/belief is given by God without any contribution by man (John 6:29) and, in like manner, life is given by the bread of God without any contribution by man (John 6:32-33).

PRAISE JESUS FOR HIS LOVINGKINDNESS!!!

In Truth (John 14:6), the Christ of us Christians intensifies that God works man regarding saving faith/belief, not man working, but truly the Bread of Life (John 6:35) as exclusive Savior!

Free-willian Philosophers convey things like “They obviously understood jesus to be saying what God requires of you is that you believe” (the word of TomL, see post #1,818) about the people recorded in John 6:28-33 in order for the free-willian heart’s treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) to justify adulterating the Word of God resulting in “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man, see Matthew 15:9).

The Lord uses the continuing exchange to illumine the people's, and free-willian, ignorance. The Word of God is precise and pure “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) - "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

This examination needs to expand to the larger passage of "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (John 6:27), but this would be incomplete without the intervening passage culminating with "Then they said to Him, 'Lord, always give us this bread.' Jesus said to them, 'I am the Bread of Life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst'" (John 6:34-35).

Do not be confused about the "who comes to Me" in John 6:35 because the Lord says "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21), so we Christians work for God because God wrings our work/deeds out of us!

In John 6:27 and John 6:34-35, Jesus says He is our Christian's food (John 6:27), our Christian Bread of Life (John 6:35). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Christ of us Christians says "I am the Living Bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh" (John 6:51).

We Christians work (John 6:27) for the Bread of Life (John 6:35) according to the Power of God (John 3:21), so we proclaim the glorious King of the Kingdom of God in the Power of God to the world; therefore, this "proclaiming" is working for the food enduring to eternal life (John 6:27). Christ gives Himself, the Bread of Life, to us Christians for we Christians partake in the food of the Body and Blood of Christ, so our wonderful Leader sustains and strengthens us for the works prepared for us beforehand by God to the Glory of God! God has set His seal on us Christians, that is, our seal is our very believing in the Son whom the Father has sent by the Grace of God for the Glory of God!

Praise the Lord for He explains our Christian work (John 6:27) is to eat the Bread of Life (John 6:35, John 6:51). Christ says "work" "for the food" (John 6:27) which means "work for Christ" as in fruit of the Spirit of the Living God (see bearing fruit in John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and Galatians 5:22-23), so Christ says not that believing in Christ is the work of man, so this means free-willian philosopher's "He told them there was a certain type of work they were to do and it was the work of faith so stop trying to twist the passage and say it wasn't so" (the word of Rockson regarding John 6:27, see post #1,847) is false according to the Word of God!

Free-willian Philosophers are under the delusion that "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (tthe Word of God, John 6:27) in their hearts translates to "Do not work for the food which perishes, but YOU HAVE THE ABILITY IN YOUR OWN INITIATIVE TO WORK for the food which endures to eternal life, SO YOU MUST CHOOSE WHETHER TO ACCEPT THE FOOD THAT the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (the word of free-willians) in spite of the Word of God sayings “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right” (Luke 12:57) and
“you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

Free-willian's hearts even subtract "which the Son of Man will give to you" (John 6:27) about the food for which Jesus says "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). Jesus clearly states the righteous work of man is Fruit of the Spirit because the food is given by God to man which is another declaration about the exclusive power of God in the salvation of man. A crucial concept established by Jesus in John 6:27 is that the only people to receive Jesus' food are the people to whom Jesus gives the food, but free-willian philosophy ends up with people in hell who are failures of "the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). This paragraph's explanation is all in the recorded Word of God in John 6:27 without stepping to another verse. "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Word in John 6:27 refers to the man's work which is truly the act of God in man; on the other hand, the Word in John 6:29 refers to man's belief which is truly the act of God in man.

In the first moment (John 6:27), Lord Jesus explains the outward evidence of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and in the second moment (John 6:29), Jesus explains the inward event of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and this Father declares "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

Kermos continues his distorted and irrational claims

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Jesus tells the Jews there is something they must do

Kermos comes and states "Hath Jesus really said they must do something"

irrationally after telling them they must do something Kermos wants you youo believe in he then tellsd them thry have nothing to do. (Is it any wonder even his peers reject his claims)

He does the same with john 15:16

According to
John 15:26–27 (NASB 2020) — 26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Jesus had selected those who were with him during his time on earth. They were to be witnesses of his earthly ministry

Kermos on the other hand wants you to believe Jesus is talking about unconditional salvation determined before the creation of the earth for select men who would live some time in the future

He does not seem to care that context is not teaching that, that even peers from his own theology rebuff him. He just repeats the same thing over and over and over and over

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94452
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94463

 

[Red Baker]

Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life

To which I have agreed~and life by anyone's definition must precede movement, action on the stage of life~life by definition must precede hearing, seeing and understanding,............any rational person understands this process, except those who refuse to even consider the truth of this in order to protect their bias doctrine against the word of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Eisegesis. Nowhere in the passage is there any mention of unconditional elect. Calvinism must assume its tenets because they are not found in scripture

I did not use that scripture to prove unconditional election, though a truth.

I used it to show that those that did repent at the preaching of Jonah, will rise up in the judgement at the last day against this generation, referring to the generation of the children of the devil who were never given the gift of faith and repentance that comes through the new birth~of course this was most likely went right over your head, since you close your eyes to the truth on this subject.

Let me give you a similar verse to consider:

Matthew 3:7​

“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?”

Again:

Matthew 23:33​

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”

Unless the Spirit of God regenerate a sinner to life, he will be nothing more than a Pharisees at best, that cannot escape the damnation of the lake of fire, can only clean the outside of the cup while the inside is full of dead men's bones!

When the Spirit of God regenerate a sinner to life, they will cry out ~men and brethren what MUST WE DO to be saved! Most will come running and falling at the feet of the saviour~crying out, Lord be merciful to me a sinner! Selah.

 

[Kermos]

Kermos continues his distorted and irrational claims

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Jesus tells the Jews there is something they must do

Kermos comes and states "Hath Jesus really said they must do something"

“He who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (the Word of God, John 3:21)

irrationally after telling them they must do something Kermos wants you youo believe in he then tellsd them thry have nothing to do. (Is it any wonder even his peers reject his claims)

He does the same with john 15:16

According to
John 15:26–27 (NASB 2020) — 26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Jesus had selected those who were with him during his time on earth. They were to be witnesses of his earthly ministry

Kermos on the other hand wants you to believe Jesus is talking about unconditional salvation determined before the creation of the earth for select men who would live some time in the future

He does not seem to care that context is not teaching that, that even peers from his own theology rebuff him. He just repeats the same thing over and over and over and over

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94452
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94463

“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

 

[Rockson]

To which I have agreed~and life by anyone's definition must precede movement, action on the stage of life~life by definition must precede hearing, seeing and understanding,............any rational person understands this process, except those who refuse to even consider the truth of this in order to protect their bias doctrine against the word of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I did not use that scripture to prove unconditional election, though a truth.

Matthew 3:7​

“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?”

Wonder why you left off the next verse where they were told, "Produce fruit, then, in keeping with repentance." In other words these vipers, who were not sheep at the time could have been saved along with everybody else.

​