An Article on free will

[TomL]

I must come back and address one more post for you Tom, and then Rockson has one or two for me, and then I'm finished with this thread.

Good and show how the parable of the good samaritan does not teach us that we are to love our enemies and that in doing so we will be like our father in heaven

Calvinism teaches God is like the priests and the Levites who pass by the wounded without concern. Even while the parable teaches as not to be like that

 

[Kermos]

I will not answer this post since it was not to me, yet, I have seen where this one verse is being quoted often and twisted by you, so I thought I would address it.

John 15:16​

“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”

This scripture should be easy to understand, but for many reasons, man has darken the truth on this one simple teaching of Jesus.
Let me ask my readers this question, if answered correctly should help us see the truth Christ intended for us to receive.

What type of service do we have that we could possibly choose Christ for? You say that's a stupid question, well I agree, but so are these words: "Ye have not chosen me"...if we believe Christ is teaching his disciples you have not chosen to be my apostles but I have chosen you, that would be a redundant statement on Jesus' part. They knew Christ chose twelve apostles~yet, he was reminding them they did not choose to follow Him by their own free will, but he first chosen them to be his children and to know him, which caused them to follow him! This truth they had to be reminded of.

Amen, and AMEN.

Be prepared.... he will not address much of your post, but will repeat the same old verses that have been addressed already, thinking he's doing God a service. He may very well be sincere, but sincerely wrong.

You are kind to @TomL. See TomL's response way back in post #353 has been consistent against the pure Word of God.

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• ""I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• ""What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

 

[Kermos]

As we shall see throughout this post,, TomL declares and demands that his faith is not of the Author and Perfecter of the one faith, the Faithful One Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately for you it was not just Calvin

You put your faith in your god Calvin as your authority, but, in Truth (John 14:6), the Lord Jesus Christ is the treasure of us Christians.

and repeating his name does not change the facts

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jews understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

You are quoting your god Calvin, again.

Your heart's treasure "John 6:28 establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God John 6:29" subjugates the Word of God as inferior to the word of man, that is, your context is the traditions of man (Matthew 15:9); in other words, your treasure adulterates the Holy Word of God resulting in a replacement thing called the word of TomL.

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29)		Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that His sayings are pure, clear, and precise “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you practice lawlessness with your "Utter nonsense" about the Word of God recorded in John 6:29 (proof post #2,126), and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

You heart's faulty redefinition of Christ's "the work of God" into your "the work of man" by way of

John 6:28 (NASB 1995) — 28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

is your man generated deception because Lord Jesus Christ eliminates man as a cause factor because Christ's fully complete definition of saving faith/belief occurs in this single sentence:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

You do not receive "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29) which declares who God is and who man is.

The King of Glory's the work of God specifically includes God's work while specifically excluding "the work of man"; therefore, every mention of saving faith/belief in the Holy Scripture is governed by King Jesus' blessed definition.

Since you wrote “In context its meaning is that which God requires of man” (the word of TomL), then your heart converts John 6:29 into “This is the work of man that God requires of you, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man as authored by TomL, see Matthew 15:9); therefore, you disobey the voice from Heaven saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5) because you listen to man instead of listening to the beloved Son.

The full and complete context of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Author and Perfecter of the faith, John 6:29) is specifically “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

As is evident, you call “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) your abominable "Utter nonsense" (proof post #1,116).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

 

[TomL]

As we shall see throughout this post,, TomL declares and demands that his faith is not of the Author and Perfecter of the one faith, the Faithful One Jesus Christ.

Sorry it is your understanding I reject not the text

This is what i stated in the post you reply to

Unfortunately for you it was not just Calvin

and repeating his name does not change the facts

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jews understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

You put your faith in your god Calvin as your authority, but, in Truth (John 14:6), the Lord Jesus Christ is the treasure of us Christians.

The text above shows how deceptive you comments are. It was not Just calvin

and the argument presented came from scripture. It was supported by Calvinist who hold to the theology you hold

Men such as Calvin and Barne's

Calvinist commentary from the geneva bible

Non Calvinist sources

Marvin Vincent Marcus Dod and Henry Alford

You are quoting your god Calvin, again.

And you are simply repeating the same thing over and over

Ignoring the fact i presented an argument base of scripture and supported it by six sources of commentary

while you simply quote yourself and assume your view apart from context

Your heart's treasure "John 6:28 establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God John 6:29" subjugates the Word of God as inferior to the word of man, that is, your context is the traditions of man (Matthew 15:9); in other words, your treasure adulterates the Holy Word of God resulting in a replacement thing called the word of TomL.

Hardly

John 6:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

that is the word of God from Jesus christ himself first telling them they are to work and then the work they must do is to believe

Something seen repeatedly throughout John's gospel while your theology of God infusing faith in man appears nowhere


John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

how much exegesis do you need to see the apostle believes men might believe the truth based upon the baptists witness

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

how much exegesis do you need to see Christ states had they believed Moses they would believe him


John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis do you need to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men believe based on the apostles testimony

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Lets see men can believe if they believer john, Moses, A women at the well, the apostles, John's gosperl

what do you have to offer but your own repeat assumptions posted over and over

You have to begin by ignoring the very words of Christ

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Jesus tells them to labor

Your theology says there is no labor for you to do

Your theology has no labor for them, and starts by contradicting the text showing itself to be a product of man and not scripture

 

[TomL]

You are kind to @TomL. See TomL's response way back in post #353 has been consistent against the pure Word of God.

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• ""I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• ""What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

The both of you deny the very words of Christ

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Jesus - there is a work for you

Calvinists - there is no work for you

One can believe Jesus or one can believe the Calvinists, but one cannot believe both

Personally I prefer to believe Jesus rather the gnostic inspired beliefs of Calvinists

 

[Red Baker]

Good and show how the parable of the good samaritan does not teach us that we are to love our enemies and that in doing so we will be like our father in heaven

Using the parable in this sense we agree. This is not what we disagreed with you concerning this parable, and you know it. Tom, you have a serious problem of being honest it seems to me.

Almost three thousand posts~this thread has long since lost its purpose and is not serving any good for anyone, other than maybe serving one's ego, which I'm not interesting in doing that.

 

[Red Baker]

@Rockson, please point out you post you desire for me to address and I will, after that I'm movin on.

 

[TomL]

Using the parable in this sense we agree. This is not what we disagreed with you concerning this parable, and you know it. Tom, you have a serious problem of being honest it seems to me.

Almost three thousand posts~this thread has long since lost its purpose and is not serving any good for anyone, other than maybe serving one's ego, which I'm not interesting in doing that.

It seem to me you are projecting.

Or maybe it is just cognitive disodence setting in and you do not realise how much your theology makes God like the Levite and the Priest who simply pass by the unfortunate man

 

[Rockson]

Rockson, please point out you post you desire for me to address and I will, after that I'm movin on.

I'd leave that up to you.

 

[Kermos]

Lets include the context

These were your words

It appears you have believers being regenerated then repenting

Thanks for quoting:

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".
​

As seen above, I believe God changes us Christians; in other words, the Word of God changes us.

As seen in your post, you believe you free-willians change yourselves; in other words, your self-will changes you.

One of us covets his self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) glory unto himself, but the other acknowledges God's glory!

to repent is man's responsibility

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The gift of the holy Spirit follows after repentance
and repentance is through the word of God which convicts us

You present my position in a deceptive manner

Your "You present my position in a deceptive manner" is false because you wrote "repentance is through the word of God which convicts us"; moreover, the Word of God is Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:14), so, even in your fraudulent free-willian philosophy, you convey repentance occurs through Jesus, yet you deny that repentance occurs through Jesus.

Thanks for quoting.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
38 Peter said to them, “Repent according to your own initiative to judge righteously, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as self-willed choose the Lord our God.” (TomL 2:38-39)		38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” (Acts 2:38-39)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Peter spoke of event relation, not event sequence, with respect to repent, baptized, and the Holy Spirit.

In fact, the promise of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38-39) is only for persons that the Word of God chooses to produce repentance, so your free-willian philosophy results in the promise of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38-39) being a broken promise as exhibited in your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" because you include people who are not repentant according to the Power of God; therefore, you portray the Word of God as a liar.

Notice:

The Lord eliminates your purported ability to discern rightly according to the judgment by your own initiative the very Righteousness of God when He asked “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?” (Luke 12:57), so man’s will is incapable of determining the “choosing” of God to amy degree; in reality, Christ alone chooses man unto salvation (John 15:16, John 15:19) with man being the blessed receiver of God’s great work. Mere man is not superior to Jesus the Lord who says “Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner'” (John 5:19) and again He mentions initiative in “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me” (John 5:30), but your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that according to the judgment by your own initiative you do choose Righteous Jesus as per your false free-willian philosophy.
​

Your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" is false as per Acts 2:38.

38 Peter said to them, “If God sovereignly and irresistibly causes you to repent and determines each of you to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will unconditionally determine
(Kermos 2:38-39)

The Apostle Peter does not have to say to those people that which you attributed to me because of all these heavenly sayings "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) and "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25). Peter said "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself" (Acts 2:38-39).

You deceptively left off a key part of Peter's words in that which you attributed to me, Peter's words of "as the Lord our God will call to Himself" (Acts 2:39).

TomL, you do not believe "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) nor "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) nor “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25) - you even deny this wonderful Word of God as evidenced by that which you attributed to me about the Apostle Peter's words.

I believe "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) and "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

Kermos gnostic tradition

You believe that you have the self-willed knowledge power (gnostic power) inside of yourself to (1) perceive Jesus and (2) choose Jesus and (3) obey Jesus without any interference by God – purportedly, all this practicing the truth coming to the light is wrought in you in your gnostic power.

I believe that I am entirely dependent on the Wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) to lovingly cause me (2 Corinthians 5:14) to even be able to (1) perceive King Jesus (John 3:3) and (2) for His choosing (John 15:16-19) and (3) that all my good works are wrought in God (John 15:5).

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts. The difference between you and I:

TomL Believes		Kermos Believes
he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in man. (The Traditions of Men, TomL 3:21)		he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God. (The Word of God, John 3:21)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Man-driven gnosticism is on the left hand side of the above table, and God driven knowledge is on the right hand side of the above table.

Sorry you are in denial

repentance precedes being baptized and repentance precedes receiving the gift of the holy Spirit

Do you have anything other than bald denial of the text to offer




Your reading comprehension and logic seems to be seriously askew and you contradict yourself to boot

First you state the promise is only for those who repent

then you state God breaks his promise if he does not give the holy Spirit to the unrepentant

Hello

There is no promise of the holy Spirit for the non repentant, and you seem to not know what you are talking about

You failed to provide a reasonable response to the Acts 11:18.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, "Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the gift of the Holy Spirit." (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, "Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life." (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Apostles literally testified "God has given to the Gentiles repentance"
(Acts 11:18), so your post's "Still nothing there which shows it is other than man who causes to repent" is false free-willian philosophy.

In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ; otherwise, a broken free-willian philosophy results as exhibited in your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" because the Apostles do not say what you say.

Your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" is false as per Acts 11:18.

Sorry there goes your confused thought processes again

Christ is telling them to judge what is right, not telling them cannot do so

Your "Christ is telling them to judge what is right, not telling them cannot do so" is fraudulent because Christ's words are abundantly clear:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
And on your own initiative you can judge what is right (TomL 12:57)		And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right? (Luke 12:57)

The Word of God literally conveys you do not even on your own initiative judge what is right (Luke 12:57), so your post's "Christ is telling them to judge what is right, not telling them cannot do so" is false free-willian philosophy.

continued to post #2,651

 

[Kermos]

continued from post #2,650

Joshua 24:15–24 (KJV 1900) — 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. 23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel. 24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

scripture does not support your claim

Absolutely no Word of God you quoted states that God imparted man with a free-will to choose toward God; in fact, let's review one Old Testament passage and one New Testament passage from your post's citations.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL		Joshua
If you choose not to serve YHWH, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living, or YHWH the God of Israel; but as for me and my house because YHWH God commanded er asked er said 'please use the ability I gave you to wholeheartedly choose Me as your only God then you shall have no other gods before Me', we choose to serve YHWH. (TomL 24:15)		If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve YHWH, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH. (Joshua 24:15)

And of similar vein go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

God caused me to write Truth (John 14:6) with "man’s will is incapable of determining the 'choosing' of God to amy degree" as per Christ's words in John 15:16-19, so your "scripture does not support your claim" is free-willian folly.

You conflated Christ choice of his apostles with the giving of his disciples by the father

The father giving Christ his disciples

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything which You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on the behalf of those whom You have given Me, because they are Yours; 10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11 I am no longer going to be in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name, which You have given Me; and I guarded them, and not one of them perished except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

Jesus choosing his apostles

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”



Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.



But I chose you (ἀλλʼ ἐγω ἐξελεξαμην ὑμας [all’ egō exelexamēn humas]). First aorist middle indicative of ἐκλεγω [eklegō]. See this same verb and tense used for the choice of the disciples by Christ (6:70; 13:18; 15:19). Jesus recognizes his own responsibility in the choice after a night of prayer (Luke 6:13).11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 15:16.



12 In these days he went out to the mountain to pray, and all night he continued in prayer to God. 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles:

True, the subject now in hand is not the ordinary election of believers, by which they are adopted to be the children of God, but that special election, by which he set apart his disciples to the office of preaching the Gospel11 John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 119.



16. οὐχ ὑμεῖς. Not ye chose Me, but I chose you. Ὑμεῖς and ἐγώ are emphatic. Ἐκλέγειν refers to their election to be Apostles (6:70, 13:18; Acts 1:2); therefore the aorist as referring to a definite act in the past should be preserved. So also ἔθηκα, I appointed you, i. e. assigned you to a definite post, as in 2 Tim. 1:11; Heb. 1:2. This is better than ‘I ordained,’ as A. V. here and 1 Tim. 2:7, ‘ordain’ having become a technical term in ecclesiastical language. Comp. Acts 13:47, 20:28; 1 Cor. 12:28. The repetition of ὑμεῖς throughout the verse emphasizes the personal responsibility of the Apostles.11 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 286.



In John 15:16, Jesus is not talking about choosing people to salvation, nor is he speaking generally of believers. Rather, he is talking specifically of picking his apostles and preparing them for their ministry, all of which Jesus accomplished during his earthly ministry. There is nothing here about selecting people for salvation before creation.



Smelley, Hutson. Deconstructing Calvinism: A Biblical Analysis and Refutation (p. 184). Hutson Smelley. Kindle Edition.

You quoted your god Calvin as your support for your sovereignty of man erasing the Sovereignty of God, again.

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
you choose Me for salvation, but I chose exclusively you apostles as apostles and for no other purpose (TomL 15:16)		you did not choose Me, but I chose you (John 15:16)
I chose not you out of the world (TomL 15:19, excludes salvation)		I chose you out of the world (John 15:19, includes salvation)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again. See the proof
post #353

In your self-willed “I choose to believe in Jesus" reviling of His Majesty Kimg Jesus (2 Peter 2:9-10), you believe you cause yourself to be saved from the wrath of God.

We children of God believe God chooses us children so Our Father saves us, His children, from the wrath of God.

You have serious reading difficulties

Acts 2:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

shall receive is future tense - that means it is future to the main verb repent

end pt1

Peter's correlated events, not consecutive events, clearly agrees with Lord Jesus declaring that God controls right repentance with “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25). Jesus your Name is Life and Living Water - blessing and honor, strength and glory and power be to You, the only wise King.

In your self-willed “wise and intelligent" state, you believe you produce your own repentance.

We children of God believe God reveals himself to us children so Our Father produces repentance in us children.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts represented in your posts as is visible contrasting your wrong with the Apostolic Right:

TomL Wrong		Apostolic Right
8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - 9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [cause yourself] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] man, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10 For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] man produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 TomL 7:8-10)		8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - 9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10 For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 Corinthians 7:8-10)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Scripture again and again and again.

You really resist the below quoted Holy Scripture.

By God's grace for God's glory, @brightfame52 put it so well in post #2,622 that it's included indented here:

​

Man by nature is under the control of his evil nature of disobedience Eph 2:2-3​

​

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:​

​

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.​

​

Man must be given repentance in regeneration, he cant do it by nature, he is captive by the devil by his will 2 Tim 2:25-26​

​

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;​

​

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.​

See mans will is captive to the devils will,​

​

Eph 2:2-3​

​

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince[Devil] of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:​

​

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.​

​

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

The Lord willing, this post is to be continued at my post with an opening response of:

​

A person cannot "think differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("think differently after" = repent);​

​

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS' HOLY NAME!!!

 

[TomL]

continued from post #2,650



Absolutely no Word of God you quoted states that God imparted man with a free-will to choose toward God; in fact, let's review one Old Testament passage and one New Testament passage from your post's citations.

You are in deniial

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (NASB 2020) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far away. 12 It is not in heaven, that you could say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us, and proclaim it to us, so that we may follow it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you could say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and proclaim it to us, so that we may follow it?’ 14 On the contrary, the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may follow it. 15 “See, I have placed before you today life and happiness, and death and adversity, 16 in that I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, so that you may live and become numerous, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but allow yourself to be led astray and you worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and take possession of it. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have placed before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding close to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, so that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”

Joshua 24:15–25 (NASB 2020) — 15 But if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served, which were beyond the Euphrates River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” 16 The people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would abandon the LORD to serve other gods; 17 for the LORD our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves, and did these great signs in our sight and watched over us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 The LORD drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your wrongdoing or your sins. 20 If you abandon the LORD and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and destroy you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve the LORD.” 22 So Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “Now then, do away with the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to the LORD, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve the LORD our God and obey His voice.” 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and made for them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL		Joshua
If you choose not to serve YHWH, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living, or YHWH the God of Israel; but as for me and my house because YHWH God commanded er asked er said 'please use the ability I gave you to wholeheartedly choose Me as your only God then you shall have no other gods before Me', we choose to serve YHWH. (TomL 24:15)		If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve YHWH, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH. (Joshua 24:15)

And of similar vein go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

God caused me to write Truth (John 14:6) with "man’s will is incapable of determining the 'choosing' of God to amy degree" as per Christ's words in John 15:16-19, so your "scripture does not support your claim" is free-willian folly.

You did not write to extoll truth you wrote to avoid scripture.

The people willingly stated they choose to serve the Lord God, but your theology will not allow that

So you must deny scripture

You quoted your god Calvin as your support for your sovereignty of man erasing the Sovereignty of God, again.

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
you choose Me for salvation, but I chose exclusively you apostles as apostles and for no other purpose (TomL 15:16)		you did not choose Me, but I chose you (John 15:16)
I chose not you out of the world (TomL 15:19, excludes salvation)		I chose you out of the world (John 15:19, includes salvation)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again. See the proof
post #353

In your self-willed “I choose to believe in Jesus" reviling of His Majesty Kimg Jesus (2 Peter 2:9-10), you believe you cause yourself to be saved from the wrath of God.

Scripture

John 15:16–27 (NASB 2020) — 16 You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17 This I command you, that you love one another. 18 “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they followed My word, they will follow yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you on account of My name, because they do not know the One who sent Me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 The one who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well. 25 But this has happened so that the word that is written in their Law will be fulfilled: ‘THEY HATED ME FOR NO REASON.’ 26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Show Christ chose for himself witnesses who were with him during his ministry on earth

Calvinist deception however

John 15:16–27 (NASB 2020) — 16 You did not choose Me but I chose you unconditionally for salvation because you were not able to chose me..........................................., 27 and you I have determined to testify as well, because I chose you unconditionally from the foundation of earth as you being born totally depraved according to my determination were unable to chose me.

We children of God believe God chooses us children so Our Father saves us, His children, from the wrath of God.

Scripture

1 Corinthians 1:21 (NASB 2020) — 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Calvinist deception

1 Corinthians 1:21 — 21 For since God in his determined the world woulld not come to know God, God was pleased through determination to save those he unconditionally chose before the foundation of the earth

Peter's correlated events, not consecutive events, clearly agrees with Lord Jesus declaring that God controls right repentance with “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25). Jesus your Name is Life and Living Water - blessing and honor, strength and glory and power be to You, the only wise King.

In your self-willed “wise and intelligent" state, you believe you produce your own repentance.

Calvinist deception

I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the unconditionally reprobate and have revealed these things to them you created better being as you made them unconditionally elect

We children of God believe God reveals himself to us children so Our Father produces repentance in us children.

Scripture

Isaiah 55:7 (NASB 2020) — 7 Let the wicked abandon his way, And the unrighteous person his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.

Calvinist deception

Isaiah 55:7 — 7 The wicked cannot abandon his way, And the unrighteous person cannot abandon his thoughts; nor can they return to the LORD, for i have created them without having any compassion for them and i will never pardon them.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts represented in your posts as is visible contrasting your wrong with the Apostolic Right:

TomL Wrong		Apostolic Right
8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - 9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [cause yourself] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] man, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10 For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] man produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 TomL 7:8-10)		8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - 9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10 For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 Corinthians 7:8-10)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Scripture again and again and again.

​

Eph 2:2-3​

​

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince[Devil] of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:​

​

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.​

​

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

Calvinist deception

Eph 2:2-3​

​

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to my determination, my power that now worketh in the children of disobedience as i determined:​

​

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as I created them.​

The Lord willing, this post is to be continued at my post with an opening response of:

​

A person cannot "think differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("think differently after" = repent);​

​

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS' HOLY NAME!!!

Scripture

8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -.
(2 Corinthians 7:8)

Calvinist deception

8 I regret I could not cause you sorrow by my letter, for only God can make you repent.

10 for the sorrow that god predestines only for his unconditionally elect leads to salvation. The rest have no ability to repent

 

[TomL]

Your "Christ is telling them to judge what is right, not telling them cannot do so" is fraudulent because Christ's words are abundantly clear:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
And on your own initiative you can judge what is right (TomL 12:57)		And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right? (Luke 12:57)

The Word of God literally conveys you do not even on your own initiative judge what is right (Luke 12:57), so your post's "Christ is telling them to judge what is right, not telling them cannot do so" is false free-willian philosophy.

continued to post #2,651

Scripture

Luke 12:57 (NASB 2020) — 57 “And why do you not even judge by yourselves what is right?

kermos' deception

You cannot judge by yourselves what is right

end pt1

 

[TomL]

You failed to provide a reasonable response to the Acts 11:18.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, "Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the gift of the Holy Spirit." (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, "Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life." (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Apostles literally testified "God has given to the Gentiles repentance"
(Acts 11:18), so your post's "Still nothing there which shows it is other than man who causes to repent" is false free-willian philosophy.

In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ; otherwise, a broken free-willian philosophy results as exhibited in your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" because the Apostles do not say what you say.

Your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" is false as per Acts 11:18.

Scripture

Acts 11:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

Kermos' deception

Acts 11:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the gentiles the Holy spirit so they might repent.

end pt2

 

[TomL]

You believe that you have the self-willed knowledge power (gnostic power) inside of yourself to (1) perceive Jesus and (2) choose Jesus and (3) obey Jesus without any interference by God – purportedly, all this practicing the truth coming to the light is wrought in you in your gnostic power.

I believe that I am entirely dependent on the Wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) to lovingly cause me (2 Corinthians 5:14) to even be able to (1) perceive King Jesus (John 3:3) and (2) for His choosing (John 15:16-19) and (3) that all my good works are wrought in God (John 15:5).

Scripture

John 3:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

understanding

John 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Kermos' lack of understanding

John 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot know or understand anything concerning the kingdom of God no matter what the scriptures may say.

scripture concerning those he chosen

John 15:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Kermos' distortion

All throughout time which I have unconditionally chosen from before the foundation of the earth shall bear witness of me

Scripture

John 15:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Kermos' distortion

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that I determined unconditionally to abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye cannot even believe

end pt 3

 

[TomL]

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

Scripture

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Kermos' deception


27 You cannot Labour for the meat which perisheth, or for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto some unconditionally select

Lexical meaning


4. world(people) — all of the people of the world understood according to the place in which human beings live. Related Topics: People; World.
Jn 1:10 ὁ κόσμος
Jn 3:16 Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν
Jn 8:12 Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ φῶς τοῦ κόσμου·
Jn 17:6 οὓς ἔδωκάς μοι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου.
2 Pe 2:5 ἀρχαίου κόσμου οὐκ ἐφείσατο,
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

Kermos' deception

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent

 

[Kermos]

Again your reading comprehension must be challenged

repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life

A person cannot "think differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("think differently after" = repent); therefore, your cognitive logic concepts are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your "repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life" is your heart putting a person "thinking differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("thinking differently after" = repenting).

The word unto or to is eis

Eis is a preposition which denotes movement toward a goal or destination

here the motion is to life

Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

to grant does not mean to irresistibly infuse

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

to grant is to enable, permit, allow

Your linguistic skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the word “grant” means to transfer, give, impart, confer (www.thefreedictionary.com/grant).

Your definition for grant "enable, permit, allow
" is deficient because you neglect to include grant's definition of "transfer, give, impart, confer".

For example, grant deed transfers ownership of land to a recipient, and a grant deed can be executed without any contribution made by the recipient, not even a signature on the grant deed document; therefore, the grant deed can mean to irresistibly [cause] the recipient of the grant deed to own said property.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Apostles literally testified ”God has granted to the Gentiles repentance to life”
(Acts 11:18), so your post’s “to grant does not mean to irresistibly [cause]” is false free-willian philosophy.

In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ (John 14:6).

there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

your theology denies scripture and the centrality of Christ in salvation

You wrote "there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ".

Life in Christ is governed by “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except because of Me” (the Word of God, John 14:6).

Faith in Christ is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Word of God, John 6:29).

God causes man's Life in Christ (John 14:6), and God causes man's Faith in Christ (John 6:29), and God causes man's repentance in Christ (Matthew 11:25). These are wonderful Spiritual blessings in Christ. Praise Jesus!

No Holy Scripture you cite states that man causes man's Life in Christ, nor man causes man's Faith in Christ, nor man causes man's repentance in Christ.

You lay claim to yourself "denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ" inside of your own post.

You really resist the below quoted Holy Scripture.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

continued from post #2,651

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HOLY AND LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[TomL]

Again your reading comprehension must be challenged

repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life

Kermos
A person cannot "think differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("think differently after" = repent); therefore, your cognitive logic concepts are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your "repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life" is your heart putting a person "thinking differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("thinking differently after" = repenting).

Sorry the issue is the relationship between repentance and life

Your confused conflating of the word of God and life is nonsense

repentance is unto life or as the NASB puts it

Acts 11:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

repentance which leads to life

Only someone terminally brainwashed could imagine that repentance does not come before the issuing of life

The word unto or to is eis

Eis is a preposition which denotes movement toward a goal or destination

here the motion is to life

Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

First the issue is the order of repentance and life

repentance leads to life

basic word meaning show repentance must precede life

Second grants does not meansto infuse

The gentiles repented at the word of Peter. The spirit bearing witness they believed

Acts 15:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

as was noted

to grant does not mean to irresistibly infuse

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

to grant is to enable, permit, allow

Kermos
Your linguistic skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the word “grant” means to transfer, give, impart, confer (www.thefreedictionary.com/grant).

Um regarding your definition transfer God is not transferring a property or deed. Did you imagine he takes from his own faith and transfers it to another

To repent is a function of man

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

They were to repent

God can enable repentance by the word as he did with the gentiles but the gentiles themselves repented as the Holy Spirit bore witness

God can't repent for man

He can send someone with a message of repentance as he did with Peter and Jonah

Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

he can give opportunity for repentance

Revelation 2:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Kermos

Your definition for grant "enable, permit, allow
" is deficient because you neglect to include grant's definition of "transfer, give, impart, confer".

Sorry but it was already shown

1 God does not transfer repentance

2 God cannot repent for you

3 Man must repent

given the above facts, it is not possible God unilaterally infuses repentance into man

Kermos
For example, grant deed transfers ownership of land to a recipient, and a grant deed can be executed without any contribution made by the recipient, not even a signature on the grant deed document; therefore, the grant deed can mean to irresistibly [cause] the recipient of the grant deed to own said property.

As already shown context is not dealing with the transfer of property but of a function man himself must do

You simply ignore the biblical context centered around the word repent





Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.


Kermos' deception


Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles infuses life and then repentance into the gentiles.

Kermos
The Apostles literally testified
Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

(Acts 11:18), so your post’s “to grant does not mean to irresistibly [cause]” is false free-willian philosophy.

but they did not testify

Then hath God also to the Gentiles has transfered his faith to the gentiles

nor did they say God irresistibly infused repentance into the gentiles.

God repented for the gentiles

Kermos
In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ (John 14:6).

So why are you trying to give them life outside of Christ that they might believe and repent

You reverse the biblical order

it is repent to life

it is believe to life

it is to choose life

Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


end pt1

 

[Kermos]

Tom, actually, the god you have created in your own heart "is under obligation" to show mercy to those who are at enmity against him, and have rejected and killed his servant sent unto them~they hated his wisdom that is in the word of God, which they considered foolishness in comparison to their own vain, worthless wisdom. Hear the word of God:

Proverbs 1:20-31~"Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets: She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying, How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices."

Wisdom laughs. Ha-ha! Wisdom mocks. You are not so tough now, fool wisdom will one day say Wisdom laughs and ridicules men suffering calamities and terrorized with fear. There is no cruelty here, just the sound of divine justice making fun of fools and scorners who rejected instruction.

He who laughs last, laughs best. Lady Wisdom and the LORD Jehovah laugh last, and best. But this is no laughing matter for sinners, for these are some of the most sober words in the Bible. Men refusing to listen to instruction will be destroyed without mercy (Pr 1:20-32). In fact, Lady Wisdom declares that those who reject her must love death (Pr 8:36).

Fools and scorners laugh at those who try to teach, correct, and warn them. They hate them for trying to spoil their fun (Pr 9:7-8). When a horrible calamity lands on their heads and painful fear floods their hearts, it is only fitting that Lady Wisdom, who offered to impart wisdom, should be filled with laughter and ridicule as they are destroyed.

This view of wisdom, and the God of wisdom, is not popular in this effeminate and compromising age (II Tim 3:4-5; Heb 12:28-29). Laughter and ridicule at the horrible pain and morbid fear of fools and scorners are right. This is not the god of free willers, and those who preach that God loves sinners just as they are? Most have been taught fables about a make-believe sugar daddy in the sky as their God who loves them?

Pharaoh said, “Who is the LORD?” and rejected Moses (Ex 5:2). After ten horrible plagues, including frogs, lice, and flies, and funerals for all the firstborn of Egypt, he was told Israel had left with much of the nation’s wealth. Driving furiously along the dry seabed of the Red Sea, the chariot wheels came off the best chariot Egypt could produce, and Pharaoh had a few moments to think about his disabled chariot in the midst of sea water looking more and more unstable! Surely heaven rang with God’s laughter joining in with Israel’s mocking song and dance over waterlogged Egyptian bodies (Ex 15:1-21)! Tom, this is the God you are rejecting at the moment.

Space and time do not permit to tell the details of the flood, when those who laughed and mocked at Noah slipped under the waves with gopher wood under their fingernails and their mouths and nasal passages full of water. It was a calamity! It was fearful! But do not think God and Wisdom were wringing their hands in regret. These drowned wretches were intolerable, wicked haters of God and had been disobedient to Noah’s plain preaching for many years (Heb 11:7; I Pet 3:18-20). Now do you know this God, Tom?

God laughs at the judgment of the wicked (Ps 37:13). He holds the heathen in derision (Ps 59:8), and He will laughed derisively when destroying His Son’s enemies (Ps 2:4).

You are misusing the parable of the good Samaritan, attacking God's people.

Praise the Lord Jesus for this marvelous post!

Sadly, @TomL and free-willians fail to perceive the Truth (John 14:6) because the Living God says “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from above he cannot see the Kingdom of God” (John 3:3).

They believe they are “wise and intelligent” in their own self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) to choose to believe in Jesus in spite of King Jesus of the Kingdom of God's blessed words“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

@TomL and @Rockson believe they are “wise and intelligent” according to their own initiative to judge the Righteous One Christ Jesus, yet they fail to acknowledge Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24).

Yes, they judge Christ as worthy or unworthy to save them from the wrath of God, so the prior paragraph's "according to their own initiative to judge the Righteous One Christ Jesus" is no typo. They fail to acknowledge the finished work of Christ on the cross shedding His precious Blood. In Free-willian Philosophy, the finishing work of Christ on the cross is the free-willian's choosing Jesus.

TomL wrote "Never is the answer [man does] nothing but it is believe, repent" as recorded in post #2,501 with respect to every question along the lines of "what must I do to be saved", but in typical free-willian denial of the Holy Word of God, he does not receive:

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
(Matthew 19:25-26)
​

 

[Kermos]

Sorry the issue is the relationship between repentance and life

Your confused conflating of the word of God and life is nonsense

repentance is unto life or as the NASB puts it

Acts 11:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

repentance which leads to life

Only someone terminally brainwashed could imagine that repentance does not come before the issuing of life




Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

First the issue is the order of repentance and life

repentance leads to life

basic word meaning show repentance must precede life

Second grants does not meansto infuse

The gentiles repented at the word of Peter. The spirit bearing witness they believed

Acts 15:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

as was noted




Um regarding your definition transfer God is not transferring a property or deed. Did you imagine he takes from his own faith and transfers it to another

To repent is a function of man

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

They were to repent

God can enable repentance by the word as he did with the gentiles but the gentiles themselves repented as the Holy Spirit bore witness

God can't repent for man

He can send someone with a message of repentance as he did with Peter and Jonah

Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

he can give opportunity for repentance

Revelation 2:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.




Sorry but it was already shown

1 God does not transfer repentance

2 God cannot repent for you

3 Man must repent

given the above facts, it is not possible God unilaterally infuses repentance into man



As already shown context is not dealing with the transfer of property but of a function man himself must do

You simply ignore the biblical context centered around the word repent





Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.


Kermos' deception


Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles infuses life and then repentance into the gentiles.


but they did not testify

Then hath God also to the Gentiles has transfered his faith to the gentiles

nor did they say God irresistibly infused repentance into the gentiles.

God repented for the gentiles



So why are you trying to give them life outside of Christ that they might believe and repent

You reverse the biblical order

it is repent to life

it is believe to life

it is to choose life

Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


end pt1

Life in Christ.

Again your reading comprehension must be challenged

repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life

A person cannot "think differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("think differently after" = repent); therefore, your cognitive logic concepts are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your "repentance to life can do no other than put repentance before the reception of life" is your heart putting a person "thinking differently after" an encounter with the Word of God in the time before the person encounters the Word of God ("thinking differently after" = repenting).

The word unto or to is eis

Eis is a preposition which denotes movement toward a goal or destination

here the motion is to life

Your language skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because God has me here proclaiming that God causes repentance precisely as Apostolic Testimony declares with God's "giving" in these blessed words "God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) in alignment with "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

to grant does not mean to irresistibly infuse

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

to grant is to enable, permit, allow

Your linguistic skills are confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the word “grant” means to transfer, give, impart, confer (www.thefreedictionary.com/grant).

Your definition for grant "enable, permit, allow
" is deficient because you neglect to include grant's definition of "transfer, give, impart, confer".

For example, grant deed transfers ownership of land to a recipient, and a grant deed can be executed without any contribution made by the recipient, not even a signature on the grant deed document; therefore, the grant deed can mean to irresistibly [cause] the recipient of the grant deed to own said property.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart’s thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, “Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the Gentiles to give themselves repentance to the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, “Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Apostles literally testified ”God has granted to the Gentiles repentance to life”
(Acts 11:18), so your post’s “to grant does not mean to irresistibly [cause]” is false free-willian philosophy.

In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ (John 14:6).

there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

your theology denies scripture and the centrality of Christ in salvation

You wrote "there is no life in Christ without faith in Christ".

Life in Christ is governed by “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except because of Me” (the Word of God, John 14:6).

Faith in Christ is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Word of God, John 6:29).

God causes man's Life in Christ (John 14:6), and God causes man's Faith in Christ (John 6:29), and God causes man's repentance in Christ (Matthew 11:25). These are wonderful Spiritual blessings in Christ. Praise Jesus!

No Holy Scripture you cite states that man causes man's Life in Christ, nor man causes man's Faith in Christ, nor man causes man's repentance in Christ.

You lay claim to yourself "denying that all spiritual blessing are in Christ" inside of your own post.

You really resist the below quoted Holy Scripture.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

continued from post #2,651

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HOLY AND LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!