An Article on free will

[Kermos]

To which I have agreed~and life by anyone's definition must precede movement, action on the stage of life~life by definition must precede hearing, seeing and understanding,............any rational person understands this process, except those who refuse to even consider the truth of this in order to protect their bias doctrine against the word of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I did not use that scripture to prove unconditional election, though a truth.

I used it to show that those that did repent at the preaching of Jonah, will rise up in the judgement at the last day against this generation, referring to the generation of the children of the devil who were never given the gift of faith and repentance that comes through the new birth~of course this was most likely went right over your head, since you close your eyes to the truth on this subject.

Let me give you a similar verse to consider:

Matthew 3:7​

“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?”

Again:

Matthew 23:33​

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”

Unless the Spirit of God regenerate a sinner to life, he will be nothing more than a Pharisees at best, that cannot escape the damnation of the lake of fire, can only clean the outside of the cup while the inside is full of dead men's bones!

When the Spirit of God regenerate a sinner to life, they will cry out ~men and brethren what MUST WE DO to be saved! Most will come running and falling at the feet of the saviour~crying out, Lord be merciful to me a sinner! Selah.

Are you saying the dead in sin are incapable of doing anything according to their own power that extends into being born of God?

If yes, and I know the answer is yes, then God has us here proclaiming this same righteous Truth (John 14:6)!

In this blessed dialog, the Author and Perfecter of the faith declares the ordained order of salvation being born of God precedes faith and that both the new birth and faith are under God's loving control:

1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal Life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal Life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
(John 3:1-21)
​

God blesses me to have you here, Red Baker.

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE TRUE FAITH!!!

 

[Rockson]

To which I have agreed~and life by anyone's definition must precede movement, action on the stage of life~life by definition must precede hearing, seeing and understanding,............any rational person understands this process, except those who refuse to even consider the truth of this in order to protect their bias doctrine against the word of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The other poster I believe was talking about Eternal Life. There are three greek words used in the NT for LIFE. Bios (biological) Psuche translated as soul life and then there's Zoe God's Eternal Life. For the reason that one has not received Eternal Life such does not mean they're not a conscious being who can't hear instructions. They are self aware living beings . Now you speak of rational people but a rational person can understand there can be more than one type of LIFE unless of course you're trying to protect your biased doctrines which are against the word of God.

​

 

[Rockson]

God blesses me to have you here, Red Baker.

No offence but maybe keep in mind this one verse though and see if it applies, " And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." Matt 15:14

 

[Red Baker]

No offence but maybe keep in mind this one verse though and see if it applies, " And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." Matt 15:14

Rockson, It does indeed applies to all who embraced another gospel based on man having a part (a major part at that) in him receiving the free gift of eternal life.

Galatians 2:20,21~"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

If God's righteousness, which is revealed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, comes by the law (or, any law that said~this DO and LIVE, sin, and die) then Jesus Christ died in vain~for those that preach such a law, in essence are saying that they can be saved from sin and condemnation by their own power of believing, repenting and fearing God apart from the Spirit of God first regenerating them and giving them the power to do so.

You men are frustrating the grace of Almighty God, given freely through the faith and obedience of Jesús Christ to God's elect.

You need to see (using Galatians 2:1-5:4) if you are following or leading the blind.

 

[Red Baker]

Are you saying the dead in sin are incapable of doing anything according to their own power that extends into being born of God?

Yes~we are born spiritual dead toward God, and the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead is the same power used to resurrect God's elect from being dead in trespasses and sins to life in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:18-20~"The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,"

Very plainly written is it not? Both we and Christ were dead, one spiritually speaking, the other one literally dead~yet it took the same power to resurrect both! Which should prove any sincere seeker of the truth, that man could not beleive until he has spiritual life. It is only plain to him which has understanding freely given to him!

Proverbs 8:9​

“They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.”

Amen!

1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal Life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal Life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

Allow me to come back and add some thoughts to this discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus~heading for Costco with my bride of almost 57 years. Later....RB

 

[civic]

Yes~we are born spiritual dead toward God, and the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead is the same power used to resurrect God's elect from being dead in trespasses and sins to life in Jesus Christ.


Very plainly written is it not? Both we and Christ were dead, one spiritually speaking, the other one literally dead~yet it took the same power to resurrect both! Which should prove any sincere seeker of the truth, that man could not beleive until he has spiritual life. It is only plain to him which has understanding freely given to him!

Proverbs 8:9​

“They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.”

Amen!


Allow me to come back and add some thoughts to this discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus~heading for Costco with my bride of almost 57 years. Later....RB

quote the verse stating man is " spiritually " dead ?

 

[Rockson]

Rockson, It does indeed applies to all who embraced another gospel based on man having a part (a major part at that) in him receiving the free gift of eternal life.

Well man does have a major part in the receiving the free gift of eternal life. But then again you don't even believe it's a gift which one consciously has to receive but rather that it's just imparted. That is not the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ so I'd encourage you and a few others here to check the ground that you're on. You need to allow yourself to be shocked that you are mistaken and not stay in denial. Rom 10 reveals the instructions to receive salvation.....

The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, (that is something you do) and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, (that is something you do) thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; (that is something you do) and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (again something you do) UNTO means after that it is then imparted. Rom 10:8,11

If God's righteousness, which is revealed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, comes by the law (or, any law that said~this DO and LIVE,

Stop. Romans 10 said 4 times above in the quote I put down about what we're to do. It's another gospel which tells a sinner they don't have to receive the grace of God. Embrace the right gospel and let go of the one you have.

You men are frustrating the grace of Almighty God,

Nope sorry that's what you're doing. People hear your way of thinking they start to think they don't even have to listen to the gospel to believe anything. The gospel to you or other Calvinist is merely an afterthought and not crucial to hear. To readers FLEE from it.

 

[Kermos]

Yes~we are born spiritual dead toward God, and the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead is the same power used to resurrect God's elect from being dead in trespasses and sins to life in Jesus Christ.


Very plainly written is it not? Both we and Christ were dead, one spiritually speaking, the other one literally dead~yet it took the same power to resurrect both! Which should prove any sincere seeker of the truth, that man could not beleive until he has spiritual life. It is only plain to him which has understanding freely given to him!

Proverbs 8:9​

“They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.”

Amen!


Allow me to come back and add some thoughts to this discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus~heading for Costco with my bride of almost 57 years. Later....RB

I'm looking forward to it!

Yes, amen, and yes to "Very plainly written is it not?" regarding Ephesians 1:18-20.

God bless you and the little lady!

 

[TomL]

“He who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (the Word of God, John 3:21)



“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

All Kermos can do is repeat his denial of Christ's words

“He who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (the Word of God, John 3:21)



“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

Kermos continues his distorted and irrational claims

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Jesus tells the Jews there is something they must do

Kermos comes and states, "Hath Jesus really said they must do something"

Irrationally after telling them they must do something Kermos wants you to believe he then tells them they have nothing to do. (Is it any wonder even his peers reject his claims)

He does the same with john 15:16

According to
John 15:26–27 (NASB 2020) — 26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Jesus had selected those who were with him during his time on earth. They were to be witnesses of his earthly ministry

Kermos on the other hand wants you to believe Jesus is talking about unconditional salvation determined before the creation of the earth for select men who would live some time in the future

He does not seem to care that context is not teaching that, that even peers from his own theology rebuff him. He just repeats the same thing over and over and over and over

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94452
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94463

 

[TomL]

To which I have agreed~and life by anyone's definition must precede movement, action on the stage of life~life by definition must precede hearing, seeing and understanding,............any rational person understands this process, except those who refuse to even consider the truth of this in order to protect their bias doctrine against the word of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Sorry that is an assumption based on your understanding of life

but it is not scripture

John 5:40 (NASB 2020) — 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

John 6:53 (NASB 2020) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 11:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

scripture shows you must do something to have that life

 

[Red Baker]

quote the verse stating man is " spiritually " dead ?

Civic, how many do you need? We can start here:

John 5:24-26~"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;"

Jesus used double verily to denote a clear and certain revelation, that would not be easily accepted unless the emphasis of the double verily is employed to stress to the hearer what is being said should carefully be consider as a truth most do not even consider. The Lord spoke in this manner often to make his hearers slow down and ponder what is being said to them so they would get the truth being said.

Very clear and plain to him that understandeth! Even though the double verily helps us to slow down and hear what is being said.

Verse 24~any man that hears Jesus' words and believes what he hears ALREADY (hath, a past tense verb) has life given freely by the life given voice of Jesus Christ, who has life in the power of his voice! As seen in raising Lazarus from the dead~in John 11.

Such a person who has heard the voice of the Son of God, shall never come into condemnation but is passed farm death (spiritually speaking) unto life eternal! This is happening NOW~the hour is coming and now is! Before Christ, it was the power of God who possess life in himself.

The same power that will resurrect all in that day, (John 5:28) now is resurrecting his chosen people whom he has ordained to eternal life. Acts 13:48

John 5:28​

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,”

Marvel if you want to, but it is the truth of the word of God.

civic, what is the first resurrection to you, mentioned in the scriptures, if it is not a spiritual resurrection by the power of God toward believers?

 

[Red Baker]

Sorry that is an assumption based on your understanding of life

Assumption on my part? Wishingful thinking on your part Tom.

Tom, go into any funeral home nearest you tonite and go to the first casket and tell the dead person to do something and see if they can hear you~ Speak as loud as you need to speak, and see. Call 911 and see if they will help out. They just might load you up and take you to the nearest hospital with padded walls.....if not, they should.

 

[Red Baker]

Well man does have a major part in the receiving the free gift of eternal life. But then again you don't even believe it's a gift which one consciously has to receive but rather that it's just imparted. That is not the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ so I'd encourage you and a few others here to check the ground that you're on. You need to allow yourself to be shocked that you are mistaken and not stay in denial. Rom 10 reveals the instructions to receive salvation.....

The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, (that is something you do) and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, (that is something you do) thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; (that is something you do) and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (again something you do) UNTO means after that it is then imparted. Rom 10:8,11



Stop. Romans 10 said 4 times above in the quote I put down about what we're to do. It's another gospel which tells a sinner they don't have to receive the grace of God. Embrace the right gospel and let go of the one you have.


Nope sorry that's what you're doing. People hear your way of thinking they start to think they don't even have to listen to the gospel to believe anything. The gospel to you or other Calvinist is merely an afterthought and not crucial to hear. To readers FLEE from it.

Rockson, I'm going back and find what I have already posted to you (or to someone) concerning Romans 10:1-13~ give me time, maybe even tomorrow.

 

[Kermos]

All Kermos can do is repeat his denial of Christ's words


Kermos continues his distorted and irrational claims

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Jesus tells the Jews there is something they must do

Kermos comes and states, "Hath Jesus really said they must do something"

Irrationally after telling them they must do something Kermos wants you to believe he then tells them they have nothing to do. (Is it any wonder even his peers reject his claims)

He does the same with john 15:16

According to
John 15:26–27 (NASB 2020) — 26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Jesus had selected those who were with him during his time on earth. They were to be witnesses of his earthly ministry

Kermos on the other hand wants you to believe Jesus is talking about unconditional salvation determined before the creation of the earth for select men who would live some time in the future

He does not seem to care that context is not teaching that, that even peers from his own theology rebuff him. He just repeats the same thing over and over and over and over

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94452
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94463

Regarding your quotation of:

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
​

you wrote your utter deception:

Jesus tells the Jews there is something they must do Kermos comes and states, "Hath Jesus really said they must do something"
​

because the Word of God, Jesus Christ Himself, causes me to proclaim in the very post to which you replied:

He who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.
(the Word of God, John 3:21)
​

which is the Truth (John 14:6) that you deny.

Praise Jesus, He has been with me since the beginning of my walk in faith with Him:

When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
(John 15:26-27 (NASB 2020))
​

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29)		Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that the Word of God sayings are pure, clear, and precise:

“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

“You did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16).

“I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

 

[Rockson]

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

So you actually do believe that one who is not a Calvinist is worshiping God in vain, in other words God doesn't accept them. I think most other Calvinists would call you an extremist and tell you to be quite and that you're not helping their cause.

 

[TomL]

Regarding your quotation of:

​

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”​

​

you wrote your utter deception:

​

Jesus tells the Jews there is something they must do Kermos comes and states, "Hath Jesus really said they must do something"​

​

because the Word of God, Jesus Christ Himself, causes me to proclaim in the very post to which you replied:

​

He who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.​

(the Word of God, John 3:21)​

​

which is the Truth (John 14:6) that you deny.

Praise Jesus, He has been with me since the beginning of my walk in faith with Him:

​

When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.​

(John 15:26-27 (NASB 2020))​

​

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29)		Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that the Word of God sayings are pure, clear, and precise:

“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

“You did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16).

“I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

Kermos continues his denial of the words of scripture

All Kermos can do is repeat his denial of Christ's words


Kermos continues his distorted and irrational claims

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Jesus tells the Jews there is something they must do

Kermos comes and states, "Hath Jesus really said they must do something"

Irrationally after telling them they must do something Kermos wants you to believe he then tells them they have nothing to do. (Is it any wonder even his peers reject his claims)

He does the same with john 15:16

According to
John 15:26–27 (NASB 2020) — 26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Jesus had selected those who were with him during his time on earth. They were to be witnesses of his earthly ministry

Kermos on the other hand wants you to believe Jesus is talking about unconditional salvation determined before the creation of the earth for select men who would live some time in the future

He does not seem to care that context is not teaching that, that even peers from his own theology rebuff him. He just repeats the same thing over and over and over and over

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94452
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-94463

 

[TomL]

Assumption on my part? Wishingful thinking on your part Tom.

Tom, go into any funeral home nearest you tonite and go to the first casket and tell the dead person to do something and see if they can hear you~ Speak as loud as you need to speak, and see. Call 911 and see if they will help out. They just might load you up and take you to the nearest hospital with padded walls.....if not, they should.

Conflating spiritual death and physical death


Begging the question assuming they are the same and ignoring

The prodigal son was dead he came to his senses and returned to the father being made alive

The church at Sardis was dead.

Revelation 3:1 (NASB 2020) — 1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, and yet you are dead.

yet they were told to repent

Revelation 3:3 (NASB 2020) — 3 So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Then if you are not alert, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

your position is not built on scripture

John 5:40 (NASB 2020) — 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Dead men are told to come to Christ to be made alive

John 6:53 (NASB 2020)
53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

Dead men are to eat Christ's flesh and drink his blood that they may have life

John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

dead men are to believe that they might have life

Acts 11:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

Dead men are to repent

It is pretty clear your position is not built on scripture

 

[Red Baker]

Kermos on the other hand wants you to believe Jesus is talking about unconditional salvation determined before the creation of the earth for select men who would live some time in the future

He does not seem to care that context is not teaching that, that even peers from his own theology rebuff him. He just repeats the same thing over and over and over and over

Tom, he's correct concerning unconditional salvation for conditions equals works and works by definition denies grace, per Romans 11:5,6. Also, this salvation was planned and secured before the foundation of the world~2nd Timothy 1:9;

Revelation 13:8​

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

Instead of rebuffing him we agree with him..... only an armenian/wolf in sheep clothing, rejects this truth.

 

[Red Baker]

Conflating spiritual death and physical death

Tom, I'm not combining two or more separate things, to form a whole~I'm taking a word (death) and holding fast the meaning of the word death~in this case death in a spiritual sense is just as much as a death as in the natural sense proven my my analogy that you did not address~and more importantly, the scriptures provided.

You reject the meaning of the word death, by trying to prove that dead men are not truly dead, they are asleep and just need to be awaken with just a little help, in other words God's power is not needed in your theology as it was in Paul's teachings per Ephesians 1:18-2:1; and Jesus' John 5:24-26.

The prodigal son was dead he came to his senses and returned to the father being made alive

Tom, if any man returns in their right mind after wasting his life in riotous living, then it is by the power of Almighty God alone that causes one to come to his right mind. No man has any good, gift, or power that he did not received from God first!

1st Corinthians 4:7​

“For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?”

1st Corinthians 1:27-31~"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."

your position is not built on scripture

Wishful thinking on your part. Your doctrine is built upon twisted scriptures, which will fall before God's truth just as Dagon did before the ark of God.

1st Samuel 5:1-7~"And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Ebenezer unto Ashdod. When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon. And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of the LORD. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again. And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him. Therefore neither the priests of Dagon, nor any that come into Dagon's house, tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod unto this day. But the hand of the LORD was heavy upon them of Ashdod, and he destroyed them, and smote them with emerods, even Ashdod and the coasts thereof. And when the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of the God of Israel shall not abide with us: for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon our god."

Your god of works that you believe is your ticket to eternal life will be destroyed by God's truth, it is just a matter of time.

John 6:53 (NASB 2020)
53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

Dead men are to eat Christ's flesh and drink his blood that they may have life

This scripture I will address in a separate post maybe today, let me see. But, it will be no problem with truth on a person's side.

 

[Behold]

Man has a will but its not free from Gods control,

Man's will is Man's, and its free will.


Listen

Lets say you decided to kill 40 people in a Wal-Mart today..

So, you decided to do this, 4 months ago, and then you decided which weapons to buy, and which date you were going to go and kill 40 people.
You chose the date, and you chose to do it., and you had 4 months to change your mind., but you chose not to change your mind, even tho you thought about changing you mind.

So, if a Calvinist says.>"God predestined that", then the calvinist is a mind blinded cultist's tool, who has lost any sense of mental capacity with regards to logic, reason, sanity, and correct theology.

Ive noticed that Satanists and Calvinist both blame God for the EVIL that people = choose to do.

No doubt there is a deep connection between the 2 groups, regarding their theology, that is a "doctrine of devils"... Hebrews 13:9