An Article on free will

Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,---

Are you suggesting these believers can become "unsealed" later @Eternally-Grateful?

Johann.
continue the passage

14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The seal lasts until the day of redemption or resurrection day. It can not be broken
 
Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,---

Are you suggesting these believers can become "unsealed" later @Eternally-Grateful?

Johann.
Okay. Now we’re getting to some meat.

I’ll quote from Ephesians 1:1 all the way to verse 12. Starting In verse 4, all of these scriptures refer to the time when God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:1-13 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Now notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior.


13 In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
 
Okay. Now we’re getting to some meat.

I’ll quote from Ephesians 1:1 all the way to verse 12. Starting In verse 4, all of these scriptures refer to the time when God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:1-13 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Now notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior.

13 In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
This is a good study-we can have a good, edifying conversation later @Selah.

God bless.

Johann.
 
Well i carry mine, everyone I know does.
So you now agree that we should be obedient to do certain works such as carrying our cross. You are beginning to see that your anathema against works is embarrassing yourself in front of the Bible.
thats not the problem
the problem is those tryign to add their works of righteousness to the gospel of grace. nullifying grace
the jew added circumcision. do you think your any better than the jew?
Paul called them fools, he said they should be anathema.. what makes you better than them?
Between James promoting Abraham’s justifying works and your despising of “works of righteousness”, I will side with the Apostle.
no. you see, Like james, you have a faulty view
You dare to say that James has a faulty view??? You can say that I have a faulty view and we can debate that but for you to say that James has a faulty view is for you to stoop lower than vermin.
Read the passage,
it is impossible.
what is impossible?
If they fall away, to renew them to repentance.
It is clear in the passage, the people Hebrews was written to wanted to Go back to law. In the law. You sin, you fall away, You give sacrifice, you are renewed to repentance and resaved until you sin again.

The author is clear. If you fall away (if it were possible, which it is not) you could never get resaved.

This destroys nosas.. and your saved, not saved, saved, not saved roller coaster
Where is the law even mentioned in Heb 6:4-6??? With all due respect, you must book your eye examination appointment as soon as possible.
 
So you now agree that we should be obedient to do certain works such as carrying our cross. You are beginning to see that your anathema against works is embarrassing yourself in front of the Bible.
I never denied works

But you can;t hear what I am saying, because your stuck on trying to prove me wrong

once again, I am against works that merit salvation.. it is a false gospel. and should be anathema
Between James promoting Abraham’s justifying works and your despising of “works of righteousness”, I will side with the Apostle.
Here you go with your false accusations again.

dude. You are not reasonable. and have no argument, you keep putting your foot in your mouth by proving your not hearing a word I said.

typical legalistic mindset
You dare to say that James has a faulty view??? You can say that I have a faulty view and we can debate that but for you to say that James has a faulty view is for you to stoop lower than vermin.

Where is the law even mentioned in Heb 6:4-6??? With all due respect, you must book your eye examination appointment as soon as possible.
James did not have a FULTY VIEW

AGAIN, YOU DO

JAMES SAID THEY HAD ZERO WORKS

YOU CLAIM THEY WERE SAVED WITHOUT TRULY REPENTING.

NEXT..

(you should seriously give up)
 
lol. this is called fishing
Not playing your game..
So you can’t prove that you were “predestined before time began”. I see. That proves that you’re just blowing smoke, as usual. That’s no surprise to me.
God said I was predestined before time..
God said that Christians are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. Show us the proof of your claim you believed.
I will trust God. not someone who does not even trust the cross is sufficient to save a person completely
The Atonement is complete and there's nothing more that needs to be added to the Atonement. This is just more strawmen from you.
Yes. and you failed to prove your point

the wage of sin is death, Not your good works..
Who said that the wage of sin is good works? Your strawmen are getting weirder and weirder.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Again, show me where ANYTHING other than faith is required in this passage.

It is of faith. that it might be of grace.

it does not say it is of faith plus works.

Faith minus anything equals faith alone

Keep resisting.. All your doing is proving to me I am on the right track.
That’s on you to prove your “faith alone” and “minus works” ideas. I’m not going to do your work for you.
No what? That you refuse to acknowledge that James 2:24 declares how we’re justified by God? First you dared to say that James has a faulty view. Now you won’t acknowledge what he wrote. What’s next?
lol. I agree with James
So you do believe James when he said that we are justified by God by both faith and good works. That's exactly what I believe also. Excellent! Case closed!
 
I am laughing at you my friend.
Because you are funny..
The subject is Rom 10:17, not me. So your laughter is about Rom 10:17. That verse nor any other Bible verse should never be laughed at.
It is the work of God we believe
I do not take credit. I give it to God
if thats a bad thing, forgive me
Not of works lest anyone should boast. You want to boast. feel free. count me out eternity is too long
It is the work of God we believe: Thank you for proving synergy by mentioning “work of God” and “we believe” all in one sentence.
Yet you keep pushing works.
James is pushing good works. So I follow him. First you dared to say that James has a faulty view. Then you won’t acknowledge what James wrote. Now you hate the fact that I follow what James preaches. You forget that James is an Apostle of Christ with no faulty view, who should be acknowledged, and should be followed.
Your the one with the strawman, it is all of grace. but it must be merited by works..
Grace plus works = works.. Paul was clear on this
You flip the subject to grace whenever you're losing ground in your argument which is often.
You are boasting in your faith, your works. how you do good deeds. while others do not
I'm not boasting in anything.
Thats what legalists do. they boast. or they judge others.

its bad enough you claim you preach grace not works. yet works is your foundation.

now you say youi do not boast. when its all you do. Boast of your knowledge, Boast of your faith, and boast of your works
There you go again dreaming up strawmen, projecting your failures, and misrepresenting others. You must really enjoy doing that.
 
The subject is Rom 10:17, not me. So your laughter is about Rom 10:17. That verse nor any other Bible verse should never be laughed at.

It is the work of God we believe: Thank you for proving synergy by mentioning “work of God” and “we believe” all in one sentence.

James is pushing good works. So I follow him. First you dared to say that James has a faulty view. Then you won’t acknowledge what James wrote. Now you hate the fact that I follow what James preaches. You forget that James is an Apostle of Christ with no faulty view, who should be acknowledged, and should be followed.

You flip the subject to grace whenever you're losing ground in your argument which is often.

I'm not boasting in anything.

There you go again dreaming up strawmen, projecting your failures, and misrepresenting others. You must really enjoy doing that.
no, the subect is merit based salvation.

faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word (roma 10: 7) Amen, I have stated this since I came into this chat room.. sadly you are blind to the fact I believe this

So your still lost. you still are trying to pit me as a calvinist.

news flash. I reject calvinism, I reject fatalism. I reject TULIP and I reject legalism.

I am against all things that make my God look bad.

but hey keep talking. I will continue to expose you for what you are..
 
So you can’t prove that you were “predestined before time began”. I see. That proves that you’re just blowing smoke, as usual. That’s no surprise to me.

God said that Christians are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. Show us the proof of your claim you believed.

The Atonement is complete and there's nothing more that needs to be added to the Atonement. This is just more strawmen from you.

Who said that the wage of sin is good works? Your strawmen are getting weirder and weirder.

That’s on you to prove your “faith alone” and “minus works” ideas. I’m not going to do your work for you.

No what? That you refuse to acknowledge that James 2:24 declares how we’re justified by God? First you dared to say that James has a faulty view. Now you won’t acknowledge what he wrote. What’s next?

So you do believe James when he said that we are justified by God by both faith and good works. That's exactly what I believe also. Excellent! Case closed!
@synergy

James 2:21–24
“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

James 2:21–24 KJV
This is the most direct text that uses the phrase “justified by works”, while not denying faith, but showing works as the demonstration of true faith.

Galatians 5:6
“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision;
but faith which worketh by love.”


This shows that true justifying faith is not idle, but active—it expresses itself through love, which is visible in deeds.

Romans 2:6–7, 13
“Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life...”

“For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.”


Though Paul emphasizes faith throughout Romans, this section affirms a future judgment “according to works”—not as meritorious, but as a manifestation of authentic faith.

Matthew 12:36–37
“But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.”


Jesus indicates that one’s speech (a form of work) will factor into justification or condemnation—again pointing to a faith that is manifested outwardly.

Revelation 19:8
“And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:
for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.”


While salvation is by grace, the final glorification of the bride includes a picture of her clothed in righteous acts, indicating that works follow and accompany true faith.

Shalom brother.

J.
 
aww poor Guy, I know the truth hurts.
Just because the Bible exposes your falsehoods should not cause you to stigmatize others.
lol.. see here is your issue
The reality is, no one saved themselves period. By themself or not..
Your saved by God. not God plus you
So you with your faith cannot save yourself??? You are contradicting scripture again.

Mat_9:22 But turning and seeing her, Jesus said, Daughter, be comforted; your faith has saved you. And the woman was saved from that hour.

Luk_7:50 And He said to the woman, Your faith has saved you, go in peace.

Luk_8:48 And He said to her, Daughter, be comforted. Your faith has saved you; go in peace.

Luk_18:42 And Jesus said to him, Receive your sight! Your faith has saved you.

Rom_10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.
I believe Jesus, He who believes will never perish, but live forever. (john 3) He who believes has passed from death to life and will not come to condemnation, (john 5) He who believes will never be lost. and Jesus will raise us on the last day (john 6)

I believe paul. I was saved by grace period. But God will not force it on me, I must receive it in faith. (eph 2) Not by good deeds I have done (works) by by His mercy God saved me (a completed action (Titus 3) If it is grace it is no longer of works otherwise grace is no longer grace (grace plus works - works) romans 11. After I here the word of truth, and having believed, I am sealed by the spirit until redemtpion day (not until I fall away)

Abraham was justified in Gen 15. The work James spoke of was in Gen 22. decades after he was declaired righteous..
So you can't bring yourself to explicitly say that you believe James? Let’s list out what you have against James:
  1. You dared to say that James has a faulty view.
  2. You won’t acknowledge what James wrote.
  3. You hate the fact that I follow what James preaches.
  4. You explicitly believe Jesus and Paul but not James.
Man, you have it out for James I see. It's a given that whoever is against an Apostle he has lost the debate.
 
Just because the Bible exposes your falsehoods should not cause you to stigmatize others.

So you with your faith cannot save yourself??? You are contradicting scripture again.

Mat_9:22 But turning and seeing her, Jesus said, Daughter, be comforted; your faith has saved you. And the woman was saved from that hour.

Luk_7:50 And He said to the woman, Your faith has saved you, go in peace.

Luk_8:48 And He said to her, Daughter, be comforted. Your faith has saved you; go in peace.

Luk_18:42 And Jesus said to him, Receive your sight! Your faith has saved you.

Rom_10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

So you can't bring yourself to explicitly say that you believe James? Let’s list out what you have against James:
  1. You dared to say that James has a faulty view.
  2. You won’t acknowledge what James wrote.
  3. You hate the fact that I follow what James preaches.
  4. You explicitly believe Jesus and Paul but not James.
Man, you have it out for James I see. It's a given that whoever is against an Apostle he has lost the debate.
dude.

You have proven you do not even know what I believe.

do me a favor. humble yourself. and come back to me when your ready to talk the word and what I actually believe. and not your preconcieved notion of what you think I believe

because until then, you just keep putting your foot in your mouth and acting a fool
 
@Jim
Abraham believed in God. That was exceedingly more than simply believing that he would have many descendants.
Greetings Jim, I have no time at the moment but should later on today, and tomorrow to answer you in detail, for now, I will only said this:

Abraham's faith has nothing to do with his natural descendants, but the children of faith, the children of God's grace, which we see in such scriptures as:

Genesis 24:60​

“And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.”

Galatians 3:7​

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.”

I got to go leaving for a trip out of town already late leaving.
 
Well I guess all I can say is that your understanding of Romans 9 is about as screwed up as your understanding of so much of the rest of the Bible. Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world mostly to condemn humans to hell. But of course in your pride, arrogance and narcissism, you think that doesn't include you.

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being (John 1:3), but you wrote "Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world" with the connotation that you do not believe God created all things.

Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
(Matthew 7:13-14) says the Word of God, but you wrote "Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world mostly to condemn humans to hell" with the connotation that you do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who declares few enter through the small gate that leads to Life.

With my brother Paul, I say "far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world" (Galatians 6:14).

Evil pride proceeds out of the heart of men (Mark 7:20-23), and your heart's treasure pridefully holds to "I chose Christ" despite your exposure to the Holy Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

I am entirely and unequivocally at the mercy of King Jesus of the Kingdom of God for I have done absolutely nothing to contribute to the salvation Lord Jesus so very graciously delivers me.

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE SAVIOR JESUS!!!
 
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being (John 1:3), but you wrote "Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world" with the connotation that you do not believe God created all things.
That is not what I wrote. But that you say I did tells everyone everything they need to know about you.
 
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being (John 1:3), but you wrote "Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world" with the connotation that you do not believe God created all things.

Well I guess all I can say is that your understanding of Romans 9 is about as screwed up as your understanding of so much of the rest of the Bible. Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world mostly to condemn humans to hell. But of course in your pride, arrogance and narcissism, you think that doesn't include you.
This is wrong in so many ways, when you cut a persons words up and do not quote his message then make it appear that he said something he did not say
 
Okay. Now we’re getting to some meat.

I’ll quote from Ephesians 1:1 all the way to verse 12. Starting In verse 4, all of these scriptures refer to the time when God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:1-13 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Now notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior.

13 In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Here is an unpopular view that I posted in another thread to consider about Ephesians 1.

Paul makes the distinction with 2 groups below and contrasts them.

The Jews who were Apostles ( we, us , our )who first believed and were the ones predestined / chosen and with the gentiles ( you ) who believed after, later in verses 13 and beyond. They gentiles did not have the wisdom , knowledge and the mysteries were revealed to the Apostles not the gentiles. Paul is teaching them those mysteries in this letter and educating them. This passage refutes Calvinism it does not support it whatsoever. Only if one uses eisegesis can verses 1-12 be applied to a Calvinist. Exegetically it applies to the Apostles who were given the knowledge, wisdom, the mysteries revealed to them by ejection / predestination not the gentiles in Ephesus.

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen,having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

( Now Paul goes from we the apostles to them the gentile Ephesians. The apostles were the first to believe with wisdom from God and not prays for them to have the same wisdom they have)


13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

conclusion: the predestined group ( Jewish Apostles ) were the first to believe and were given all wisdom, understanding knowing the mystery of His will. The gentiles ( you, them ) were not the first to believe until way later after Paul was sent to them after Acts 13. Thet were prayed for by Paul as a group to be blesses with wisdom, knowledge, enlightenment so they may know ( they did not know at that time) and did not know the mysteries like the group in 1:3-12. Paul is making the distinction between the Apostles and who he is wrting to like he does in most of his other letters in the introduction of this letter.

continued:

The Mystery was given and revealed only to the Apostles and all other believers were taught it by the Apostles. In Ephesians 1:9 Paul as an Apostle was given that mystery that had been kept from everyone except the Apostles , those who were chosen by Jesus, elect and predestined by Him to reveal His will and the mystery that had been hidden. They were the ones given all wisdom and knowledge and the rest had to learn and be taught that wisdom, knowledge and mystery. The elect,chosen, predestined were the Apostles in Ephesians 1 not the gentiles in Ephesus.

Ephesians 3 below confirms Ephesians 1:3-12 is the Apostles- the predestined ones. Paul included himself with the Apostles/Disciples- the 12 chosen by Jesus personally. The foundation the church is built upon is the Apostles- Ephesians 4. Those were Gods predestined ones in Ephesians 1. They not us were given all wisdom, knowledge and the mystery of knowing Gods will. Everyone else needed to be taught what that was through Gods chosen Apostles. Those chosen/elect in the gospels are the 12 disciples/Apostles in Jesus teaching.

Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. 13 I ask you, therefore, not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory.

conclusion: Those predestined in Ephesians 1 were the Apostles who were the ones given by God all wisdom/understanding and the ones made known the mysteries directly from God. Paul prays to the Ephesian gentiles that they might gain wisdom and understanding and that they needed the mysteries explained to them by Paul in this letter. He references the mysteries I believe 5 times.

hope this helps !!!
 
dude.

You have proven you do not even know what I believe.

do me a favor. humble yourself. and come back to me when your ready to talk the word and what I actually believe. and not your preconcieved notion of what you think I believe
You want me to humble myself to your teachings??? Seriously? It's you that needs to humble himself to James's and Paul's teachings. You claim that you believe James but time and again you disprove that claim.
  1. You let it slip that James has a "faulty view" according to you,
  2. You continously fail your eye examination of James 2:24,
  3. You take exception to anyone "pushing works" which includes James,
You do have it out for James I see. It's a given that whoever is against an Apostle he has lost the debate.
because until then, you just keep putting your foot in your mouth and acting a fool
He who has lost the debate always incorrectly attacks the messenger out of desperation. This is just one more proof that you have lost the debate.
 
You want me to humble myself to your teachings??? Seriously? It's you that needs to humble himself to James's and Paul's teachings. You claim that you believe James but time and again you disprove that claim.
  1. You let it slip that James has a "faulty view" according to you,
  2. You continously fail your eye examination of James 2:24,
  3. You take exception to anyone "pushing works" which includes James,
You do have it out for James I see. It's a given that whoever is against an Apostle he has lost the debate.

He who has lost the debate always incorrectly attacks the messenger out of desperation. This is just one more proof that you have lost the debate.
lol

dude once more time

HUMBLE YOURSELF

You accused me multiple times of saying or believing things I do not believe (you attempted to put me in a calvinist mode)

I did not lose the debate, there was no debate. Because you have a mindset that I am calvinist. so their is no debate.

Until you open up. there is no debate..
 
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