Actually, there is nothing that says anything about being chosen for salvation. They were chosen for the specific reason of being His apostles. That they became believers either before or after being chosen seems all rather obvious, but nothing is ever said about them being elect for salvation.
The Word of God declares “
I chose you out of the world” (
John 15:19, includes salvation). The
world is careening into destruction, so all of us chosen
out of the world are delivered by God from the wrath of God into our Lord's glorious salvation! Praise be to God!
You are correct, I stand corrected, but whether 12 or 11 you still are not one of them.
I rejoice in the Lord that you see that it is 11, not 12, at the point of John 15:15-20, and may Lord Jesus open your eyes regarding the Word of God recorded in John 15:15-20!
Righteously perceive?? Seriously? Making up even more unbiblical definition of words to force fit your theology?
The real confusion is in the bad theology that you are trying to promote.
The wonderful exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus with context follows. The true Lord Jesus declares that a person cannot righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without God birthing the person anew in the exchange:
Speaker | | Holy Scripture | | Summary |
| | | | |
Nicodemus: | | "Rabbi, we see that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” (John 3:2) | | I perceive that God sent you, Teacher, for the signs you do are because God is with you! |
| | | | |
Lord Jesus: | | "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from above he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (John 3:3) | | One perceives Me because of the exclusive work of God inside of such a one |
| | | | |
Nicodemus: | | "How can someone be born when they are old?" "Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!" (John 3:4) | | How can I enter into this communion with God without me working in some way? Please help me understand. |
| | | | |
Lord Jesus: | | “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8) | | One enters into communion with God because of the Holy Spirit. One knows not when nor how nor why the Holy Spirit works in this person here or that person there. |
As the Holy Spirit makes abundantly clear, the context of John 3:2-3 is "
see" as in "perceive", and the context of John 3:4-8 is "
enter" as in "ingress".
Lord Jesus used the word "
see", which means "perceive", as recorded in (
John 3:3, so you adulterate the Holy Word of God to conform to your Free-willian Philosophy by changing the meaning of "
cannot see" to your "
can see":
The traditions of men | | The Holy Word of God |
| | |
Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the Kingdom of God[
(Jim 3:3) | | Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3) |
The obvious meaning there is contained in the warning to "stay awake". Jesus also said, in Mark 14:27, "You will all fall away",... Are you going to assume that one is for you as well?
One of the fallacies of bible interpretation is the failure to identify the who is speaking, to whom it is speaking, and about whom or what it is being spoken. You are clearly in that category here as you clearly have shown in the following.
Lord Jesus issues two statements in "
What I say to you I say to all! You be on the watch!" as recorded in the verse
Mark 13:37, so your self-willed (
2 Peter 2:9-10) thoughts that '
The obvious meaning there is contained in the warning to "stay awake"' applies to the first statement of "
What I say to you I say to all" instead of the second statement of "
You be on the watch" is
One of the fallacies of bible interpretation in Free-willian Philosophy.
You are under the delusion that Jesus conveys "
What I say to you I say to all! You be on the watch!" (
Mark 13:37) exclusively to the Apostle Peter, Apostle John, Apostle James, and Apostle Andrew (
Mark 13:3), but not the Apostle Matthew, not Mark, not Apostle Thomas, not Luke, not Apostle Paul, not Timothy, etc, yet, in Truth (John 14:6), Lord Jesus conveys these statements to all Christ's own sheep in all time.
Jesus Christ's "
you" includes all Christians in all time inside of “
you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (
John 15:16) and
“
I chose you out of the world” (
John 15:19, includes salvation) because Lord Jesus Christ includes all of us Christians with "
What I say to you I say to all" (
Mark 13:37):
At the time Jesus bestows these blessings to all believers in all time (see John 15:16-19), the Lord explained "If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you" (John 15:20) JUST ONE VERSE AFTER JOHN 15:19, so this word of Christ's is in context with the manner the world persecutes Christians as Christ's words recorded in Mark 13:1-37 including "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37) THUS CONTEXT EXISTS BETWEEN JOHN 15:16, JOHN 15:19, JOHN 15:20, AND MARK 13:37, so you are in confusion.
Lord Jesus Christ is forever gracious and merciful to exclusively choose us Christians! Praise You, Jesus! Thank You, Jesus!
That you would claim these words of Jesus were meant for you, tells us all we need to know about you. John 15:15-16 is a personal message to those who had been with him for nearly three years. Again, you are not one of them.
My Lord Jesus calls me friend (John 15:15-16)! Thank You, Jesus!
You excluded yourself from the friendship of Christ as evidenced in your writings.
Jim, you believe that you do choose Jesus but Jesus does not choose you, so you deny Lord and God Jesus who says “
you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (
John 15:16).
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (
Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (
John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GOD OF MERCY AND GRACE!!!