An Article on free will

[civic]

As I told you before, and I'm telling you again. If you want me to even consider addressing your points, then you need to apologize to Red Baker for your long standing and repeated position of bearing false witness against him as shown per the below. You need to apologize publicly in this forum for your publicly visible behavior.

@brightfame52, synergy's falsified "overlooked" was addressed in the post to which synergy replied and post #5,669, yet both posts were addressed to you which included the concept that the born of God become the children of God per Saint John's Gospel (John 1:9-13), and synergy!s heart visibly nullifies Lord Jesus Christ's blessed “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) along with the Apostle John's words recorded in John 1:9-13 in relation to this blessed Word of God. @brightfame52, the remainder of this post is specifically to @synergy.



Self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) you continues to refuse to apologize, that is clear, and you persist in bearing false witness against @Red Baker who stated:

​

Nicodemus' child like confession proved that he was already born of the Spirit of God, or, else he would had been just like the other leaders of the Pharisees who said that jesus did what he did under the power of the prince of the devils​

​

in post #2,814 regarding the Lord’s saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE BE TO GOD FOR CHRIST’S SALVATION!!!

nowhere did Jesus say or imply Nicodemus was born again and in fact Jesus pointed out his need to be born again. Nic did not know what the new birth even was and Jesus had to explain it to him.

Way to TWIST scripture to fit into your self willed pharisaical self righteous and fatalistic/determinist theology.

no one was born again until Pentecost which Jesus and the Apostles taught in the New Testament.

next fallacy.................

conclusion: Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Fatalism is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

hope this helps !!!

 

[MTMattie]

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE BE TO GOD FOR CHRIST’S SALVATION!!!

So, then, it is only God who choses us, and guides us on our course through life. Do I have that right?

 

[civic]

So, then, it is only God who choses us, and guides us on our course through life. Do I have that right?

yes and causes you to sin and disobey him. another god, another jesus, another gospel.

 

[MTMattie]

yes and causes you to sin and disobey him. another god, another jesus, another gospel.

And also He just guided me away from readily agreeing to join in a Bible study on the book of John at my Westminster Confession of Faith following church. One whose mission statement is Saved by Grace alone through Christ alone....

Something stopped me cold from saying to my neighbor I would like to.... count me in.

So had to be the heavenly Father who did not want me there? Right?

I doubt it was Satan cause he runs from me.

Or was it my own free will because My studies have led me to believe John was a teacher and supported of Free will....?

So , while this could have been an education from the church end where they show a video and then you are
given questions for homework for the next lesson... (How great the power of suggestion in that method is.) I quickly backed off with saying I would think about it.

 

[brightfame52]

tulip is not the gospel

do you @Kermos agree with him that tulip is the gospel ? yes or no

Yes it is the Gospel

 

[Kermos]

you don't now what "born again" even means or how a person becomes born again. just more empty rhetoric and gook gobbly.

next fallacy

There you go again calling the beautifully wonderful Word of God your wicked "empty rhetoric and gook gobbly" for you replied to the post containing God's expression of Love with the Christ of us Christians declaring "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63). You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GIVER OF LIFE AND UNDERSTANDING!!!

 

[civic]

There you go again calling the beautifully wonderful Word of God your wicked "empty rhetoric and gook gobbly" for you replied to the post containing God's expression of Love with the Christ of us Christians declaring "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63). You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GIVER OF LIFE AND UNDERSTANDING!!!

projecting again its your understanding, your heretical beliefs, false teaching, false gospel etc.... that makes void the word of God by your traditions of men- Mat 15:9.

 

[Kermos]

Projecting it’s you that has rearranged the word of God to make it say something it doesn’t say or imply. Believing and receiving precedes becoming a child of God / born of God.

Next fallacy

You believe that your free-will choosing to believe causes you to be born of God as per John 1:12-13, yet no one causes himself to be born of God. As the Word of God declares, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3), so you cannot choose that which you cannot righteously perceive; therefore, your Free-willian Philosophy leads to you choosing to believe in something other than the true Lord Jesus Christ.

You impose your free-will adulteration as a replacement for the Apostle John' Gospel thusly:

The Book of Free-willians		The Gospel of John
But as many as free-will chose to accept Him, to them He gave the right to cause themselves to become children of God, even to those who free-will chose to believe in His name who caused themselves to be born of God. (civic 1:9-13)		There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:9-13)

so your heart believes your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Scripture, again.

Behold, God causes me to proclaim exactly that which the Apostle John proclaims.

Let's follow John's blessed chain linking these people:

• John starts with the full population of the planet "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him" (John 1:10) as he builds toward the source of holiness which is "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John narrows the population to Israel only "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11).
• John further narrows the focus to a sub-population of Israel "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12)
• John equates the population of "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12) with the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John further equates the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) with the population of "believe in His name" increasing tempo about the source of holiness being"born of God" (John 1:13).
• John arrives at the source of holiness for every single one of us saints (holy ones) which is being "born of God" (John 1:13).

John's Good Message (Gospel) narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then further narrowing onward, so we can expand the focus starting with John's primary narrowest foundational point moving toward the secondary larger point and then the tertiary broader point and so on.

John's primary foundational point is "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) which begets John's secondary point of "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) and "children of God" (John 1:12, John 3:3-8) and "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9) which has implications for John's tertiary point "His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) which arrives at John's opening, broadest point which is the fact that "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) does not include everybody in "the world" (John 1:10).

John has the "born of God" as the first and primary position, so John is in accord with Lord Jesus, the Christ of us Christians, who puts the new birth "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) before belief in the same dialog (see John 3:16), and Lord Jesus leaves no latitude for man free-will choosing to believe by concluding the dialog with “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

Clearly, you do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE TRUE AND FAITH FULL ONE!!!

 

[civic]

You believe that your free-will choosing to believe causes you to be born of God as per John 1:12-13, yet no one causes himself to be born of God. As the Word of God declares, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3), so you cannot choose that which you cannot righteously perceive; therefore, your Free-willian Philosophy leads to you choosing to believe in something other than the true Lord Jesus Christ.

You impose your free-will adulteration as a replacement for the Apostle John' Gospel thusly:

The Book of Free-willians		The Gospel of John
But as many as free-will chose to accept Him, to them He gave the right to cause themselves to become children of God, even to those who free-will chose to believe in His name who caused themselves to be born of God. (civic 1:9-13)		There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:9-13)

so your heart believes your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Scripture, again.

Behold, God causes me to proclaim exactly that which the Apostle John proclaims.

Let's follow John's blessed chain linking these people:

• John starts with the full population of the planet "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him" (John 1:10) as he builds toward the source of holiness which is "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John narrows the population to Israel only "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11).
• John further narrows the focus to a sub-population of Israel "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12)
• John equates the population of "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12) with the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John further equates the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) with the population of "believe in His name" increasing tempo about the source of holiness being"born of God" (John 1:13).
• John arrives at the source of holiness for every single one of us saints (holy ones) which is being "born of God" (John 1:13).

John's Good Message (Gospel) narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then further narrowing onward, so we can expand the focus starting with John's primary narrowest foundational point moving toward the secondary larger point and then the tertiary broader point and so on.

John's primary foundational point is "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) which begets John's secondary point of "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) and "children of God" (John 1:12, John 3:3-8) and "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9) which has implications for John's tertiary point "His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) which arrives at John's opening, broadest point which is the fact that "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) does not include everybody in "the world" (John 1:10).

John has the "born of God" as the first and primary position, so John is in accord with Lord Jesus, the Christ of us Christians, who puts the new birth "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) before belief in the same dialog (see John 3:16), and Lord Jesus leaves no latitude for man free-will choosing to believe by concluding the dialog with “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

Clearly, you do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE TRUE AND FAITH FULL ONE!!!

1-Man believes/receives Him/Jesus as 1:12 says
2- Afterwards God gives the new birth/born again as taught in 1:13- which comes from God, not man.

conclusion- you twist the scriptures and teach a false gospel of determinism/fatalism the doctrines of me far removed from the true gospel.

hope this helps !!!

 

[MTMattie]

I literally quoted the Word of God, so you called my glorious Lord Jesus Christ your wicked "devil". No Christian applies "The great deceiver" to the Word of God. Lord Jesus Christ is truly the Good Holy God! The Word of God is absolute Truth!

Lord Jesus Christ's atonement always succeeds! But, you believe your CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT as recorded in post #3,926 of this thread.

The Grace of God always succeeds! But, you believe your EARNABLY RESISTIBLE GRACE OF GOD deception as recorded in post #5,496 of this thread.

King Jesus of the Kingdom of God exclusively controls admission into the Kingdom of God for the Glory of God! But you believe your free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation as recorded in post #2,495 of this thread. The loving Christ of us Christians opens our ears to hear the Word of God in Truth (John 14:6):

​

And looking up to heaven, He sighed deeply and said to him, "Ephphatha!" (which means, "Be opened!"). Immediately the man’s ears were opened and his tongue was released, and he began to speak plainly.​

(Mark 7:34-35)​

​

But you do not believe Christ does the wonders that He does, instead, you believe you open your own self-willed ears (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LIVING GOD, JESUS CHRIST!!!

You say YOU believe and quote the bible.

I say you do not understand what you quote.

Cherry picking leads to nothing but confusion.

You say " Lord Jesus Christ is truly the Good Holy God! The Word of God is absolute Truth!

You seemingly do not remember who on here holds that belief.

@civic holds that belief. as do I yet we both have seen you twist things for your own interpretation.

 

[Kermos]

nice strawman and btw you are making the argument for us rofl.

faith is a gift for BELIEVERS, not unbelievers.

an unbeliever must believe the gospel to become saved, faith is the requirement to be saved.

nowhere in scripture does God ever give, grant or gift faith to an unbeliever. That is the requirement God places on man.

next fallacy............ your fatalism/determinism has once again been proven wrong. Jesus and the Apostles taught man but believe by his own will which is free to choose to believe God or deny Him.

hope this helps !!!

The Author and Perfecter of the Faith (Hebrews 12:2) implants faith/belief into the born of God because the Way of the loving Sovereign God (John 14:6) says “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (Lord Jesus Christ,John 3:21) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (The Word of God, John 6:29) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3)

Your own thoughts of "Jesus and the Apostles taught man but believe by his own will which is free to choose to believe God" demonstrate that you believe in your heart that you self-willed author and perfect the faith/belief inside of you instead of Lord Jesus Christ of us Christians. You deny Christ as quoted above in John 3:21 and John 6:29 and John 3:3.

I believe in Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Truth (John 14:6) along with His graciously wonderful sayings, so you calling me a "fatalist" means that you are calling the Leader Jesus Christ of us Christians your wicked "fatal", a.k.a. "death", and no Christian applies death to Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ is Life!

Your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) of "Jesus and the Apostles taught man but believe by his own will which is free to choose to believe God" shows that you deny Apostolic testimony of the Apostle Peter declaring “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9).

Your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) preaching of "Jesus and the Apostles taught man but believe by his own will which is free to choose to believe God" exhibits your adulteration of Apostolic testimony by your nullification of "not" "by the will of man" in the Apostle John's word:

The Book of civic		The Gospel of John
But as many as free-will chose to accept Him, to them He gave the right to cause themselves to become children of God, even to those who free-will chose to believe in His name who caused themselves to be born of God. (civic 1:9-13)		There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:9-13)

so your heart places your self-willed faith/belief in the position of causing yourself to be born of God, yet no one causes himself to be born of God!

The Apostle Paul wrote faith/belief is the "gift of God" in this Apostolic testimony:

​

by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

Behold, faith/belief is not of yourselves, so your "Jesus and the Apostles taught man but believe by his own will which is free to choose to believe God" and "nowhere in scripture does God ever give, grant or gift faith" is your self-willed deception.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

 

[MTMattie]

@Kerrmos

I am not jumping in between you and civic but some of your reply #5711 begs for clarity.

Lord Jesus Christ,John 3:21) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (The Word of God, John 6:29) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3)

Your own thoughts of "Jesus and the Apostles taught man but believe by his own will which is free to choose to believe God" demonstrate that you believe in your heart that you self-willed author and perfect the faith/belief inside of you instead of Lord Jesus Christ of us Christians. You deny Christ as quoted above in John 3:21 and John 6:29 and John 3:3.

I believe in Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Truth (John 14:6) along with His graciously wonderful sayings, so you calling me a "fatalist" means that you are calling the Leader Jesus Christ of us Christians your wicked "fatal", a.k.a. "death", and no Christian applies death to Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ is Life!

You are sounding suspiciously like you are likening your self and Jesus to be one. You are the one saying if you are called a fatalist then Jesus is also.

Your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) of "Jesus and the Apostles taught man but believe by his own will which is free to choose to believe God" shows that you deny Apostolic testimony of the Apostle Peter declaring “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9).

You need to back up to Acts 15:7

Acts 15:7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Peter was the choice God made.... so.... the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and then believe.... God did not have these people be born again before they heard the gospel.

And one final thing. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
The gift is not the grace that saves. The salvation that results through faith IS the gift.

Further...

John 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

IOW: Everyone who beholds the Son. ( faith in , belief) will have eternal life.....
NOT being given eternal life or born again first, then being told to have faith......

 

[TibiasDad]

Faith/Belief in Christ inside of us Christians is the Fruit of the Holy Spirit of God:

​

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.​

(Galatians 5:22-23)​

​

Therefore, faith in Jesus whom the Father has sent is a Fruit of the Spirit, the work of God, without ever being your work of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21), TibiasDad, for the King of Glory declares “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Free-willians are thieves for in the free-willian heart lies the deception that faith is the work of the free-willian's flesh.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

New International Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

New Living Translation
But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

English Standard Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Berean Study Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

New American Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

NASB 1995
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

NASB 1977
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Amplified Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Christian Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,


Contemporary English Version
God's Spirit makes us loving, happy, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful,

Good News Translation
But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
But the spiritual nature produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

International Standard Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

NET Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,

King James Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

New King James Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,


Only one of the more modern translations follows the KJV; even the NKJV says Faithfulness is the intended meaning of πίστις in Gal 5:22.

As has been amply mentioned by others, the fruits of the Spirit are qualitative aspects of the Christian believer, and they are not intended to represent the nature of one coming to Christ initially.

Initial faith being placed in Christ is not the same thing as the character of being faithful as a result of growth in the Spirit which follows that initial experience of believing!


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

A spiritually dead person has no spiritual trust

Until they do, and then they become no longer dead!

To him that believes, he gives the right to become children of God.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Until they do, and then they become no longer dead!

To him that believes, he gives the right to become children of God.

Doug

They cannot spiritually trust until they are made spiritually alive, duh

 

[TibiasDad]

They cannot spiritually trust until they are made spiritually alive, duh

Again, there is not natural trust and spiritual trust; there is trust or no trust! The object in which we trust can be natural or spiritual, but it is not a qualitatively different trust in itself. The focus of our trust is the difference! We trust in God, or we trust in something other than God. We believe God or something other than God.


Doug

 

[MTMattie]

They cannot spiritually trust until they are made spiritually alive, duh

When did the thief on the cross show he had belief/faith in who Jesus was.

It was before Jesus said he would be in Paradise that day... IOW saved.

 

[Kermos]

nowhere did Jesus say or imply Nicodemus was born again and in fact Jesus pointed out his need to be born again. Nic did not know what the new birth even was and Jesus had to explain it to him.

Way to TWIST scripture to fit into your self willed pharisaical self righteous and fatalistic/determinist theology.

no one was born again until Pentecost which Jesus and the Apostles taught in the New Testament.

next fallacy.................

conclusion: Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Fatalism is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

hope this helps !!!

I quoted @Red Baker specifically in reference to @synergy's malrepresentation of Red Baker's statements; nonetheless, your adulterations to the Gospel of Christ is clearly visible:

The Anti-truth of civic		The Gospel of Luke
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was not filled with the Holy Spirit because Pentecost had not arrived. (civic 1:41)		When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. (Luke 1:41)

The first mention of Nicodemus by name is the conversation between Lord Jesus and Nicodemus recorded in (John 3:2-21, and Nicodemus hears Lord Jesus, and Nicodemus asks Lord Jesus for clarification about the meaning of born of God in a humble manner, and Nicodemus' inquiry along with the dialog with surrounding context between Lord Jesus and Nicodemus indicates that Nicodemus was born of God.

God works in mysterious ways, civic, and Nicodemus speaking thusly indicates that Nicodemus was indwelt by the Holy Spirit:

Nicodemus (he who came to Him before, being one of them) said to them, “Our Law does not judge a man unless it first hears from him and knows what he is doing, does it?” They answered him, “You are not also from Galilee, are you? Search, and see that no prophet arises out of Galilee.”
(John 1:9-13)
​

after all, the Pharisees were savage toward Lord Jesus and His followers.

Later, Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea took the Body of Jesus Christ off of the cross in a very publicly visible display which indicates Fruit of the Spirit of God in Nicodemus:

After these things Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. So he came and took away His body. Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight. So they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen wrappings with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews.
(John 17:38-40)
​

after all, the Pharisees were savage toward Lord Jesus and His followers.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD'S HOLY NAME!!!

 

[Dizerner]

Imma call you a Robotarian of Puppetism.

God making people talk back to him since the start, nice game.

 

[civic]

I quoted @Red Baker specifically in reference to @synergy's malrepresentation of Red Baker's statements; nonetheless, your adulterations to the Gospel of Christ is clearly visible:

The Anti-truth of civic		The Gospel of Luke
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was not filled with the Holy Spirit because Pentecost had not arrived. (civic 1:41)		When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. (Luke 1:41)

The first mention of Nicodemus by name is the conversation between Lord Jesus and Nicodemus recorded in (John 3:2-21, and Nicodemus hears Lord Jesus, and Nicodemus asks Lord Jesus for clarification about the meaning of born of God in a humble manner, and Nicodemus' inquiry along with the dialog with surrounding context between Lord Jesus and Nicodemus indicates that Nicodemus was born of God.

God works in mysterious ways, civic, and Nicodemus speaking thusly indicates that Nicodemus was indwelt by the Holy Spirit:

​

Nicodemus (he who came to Him before, being one of them) said to them, “Our Law does not judge a man unless it first hears from him and knows what he is doing, does it?” They answered him, “You are not also from Galilee, are you? Search, and see that no prophet arises out of Galilee.”​

(John 1:9-13)​

​

after all, the Pharisees were savage toward Lord Jesus and His followers.

Later, Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea took the Body of Jesus Christ off of the cross in a very publicly visible display which indicates Fruit of the Spirit of God in Nicodemus:

​

After these things Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. So he came and took away His body. Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight. So they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen wrappings with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews.​

(John 17:38-40)​

​

after all, the Pharisees were savage toward Lord Jesus and His followers.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD'S HOLY NAME!!!

Reds a big boy and can defend himself and does not need your help.

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