Dizerner
Well-known member
By God's Preceding Grace, they can be enabled.
An Article on free will
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By God's Preceding Grace, they can be enabled.
civic
Well-known member
Adam who was “spiritually “dead hid from God in the garden and was able to communicate with God and understand Him. In the day you eat you shall surely die. So adam sinned and was spiritually dead and yet could communicate with God and understand God. “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” (Genesis 3:10)
Luke 16:27-31 -“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Above we see that Jesus declared the physical dead and spiritual dead can respond to spiritual things. The dead spiritual/physical dead man is pleading for his own brother’s life.
Jesus declares in John 5:25, “An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”Here Jesus says the spiritually dead can and will hear him
In Mark 2:17 Jesus said, “"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." The sick/spiritually dead can hear and understand Jesus- the sinner who is dead in their sins can understand.
In Romans 1 we read of the spiritually dead that they can perceive God and that Gods handiwork is self-evident to them and that the things of God are clearly seen by them so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20- For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”
Below we see Jesus tell the "spiritually dead " pharisees that they refuse to come to Jesus so that they can have/receive life.
This is the complete opposite of what some religions teach. Jesus lets those dead pharisees know if they come to Jesus they can have life just as John taught in John 1:12-13 and Jesus taught Nicodemus in John 3:16-18. Belief in Him always precedes life. As I have mentioned before this is consistent with Jesus teachings throughout the gospels. He said no less than 13 times that- YOUR FAITH has saved you, healed, you, made you well. Not the faith that He gave them , saved them. It was THEIR OWN FAITH THAT SAVED THEM. When one placed their faith in Him they will be saved, have life, be regenerate, receive eternal life, salvation. Those conditions are taught by all the apostles and writers of the N.T.
John 5
“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?
The result is our regeneration, life, salvation, eternal life, new birth, born again- all synonyms. Don't let anyone conflate them.
John 7:17
Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
Psalm 25:9
He guides the humble in what is right and teaches them His way.
Psalm 25:14
The LORD confides in those who fear Him, and reveals His covenant to them.
Acts 17:11-12
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12 As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.
Acts 17:30-31
30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone
so we can see from the above that salvation is for everyone and God commands everyone to repent.
Gods law is to bring one to repentance and reveal one sin.
The law reveals our sin and imperfections that brings one to humble themselves and repent . Out inability to do something God commands like be perfect does not mean we cannot admit our imperfections and inability to be perfect and to rely upon Him for our perfection and not on ones self righteousness. When one understands they cannot save themselves and relies upon God for their salvation they can and will be saved. Repenting is something we do, believing is something we do, saving is what God does. He commands everyone to repent and those who do will be saved. Salvation is for everyone and everyone can repent. God saves those who repent of their sins and believe the gospel. The teaching of Jesus and the publican demonstrates the above is true without regeneration preceding repentance and belief .
Below we read Paul is reasoning with the heathen Greeks and the unbelieving Jews as Corinth. So by using reasoning, logic and persuasion the Apostle converts many of the over the next couple of years. This is how apologetics are used to persuade unbelievers who can understand the scriptures when reasoned well by the Apologist.
Acts 18
After this, Paul left Athens and went to Corinth. 2 There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, 3 and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them. 4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
5 When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah. 6 But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”
7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.
9 One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. 10 For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city.” 11 So Paul stayed in Corinth for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
12 While Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews of Corinth made a united attack on Paul and brought him to the place of judgment. 13 “This man,” they charged, “is persuading the people to worship God in ways contrary to the law.”
14 Just as Paul was about to speak, Gallio said to them, “If you Jews were making a complaint about some misdemeanor or serious crime, it would be reasonable for me to listen to you. 15 But since it involves questions about words and names and your own law—settle the matter yourselves. I will not be a judge of such things.” 16 So he drove them off. 17 Then the crowd there turned on Sosthenes the synagogue leader and beat him in front of the proconsul; and Gallio showed no concern whatever.
Acts 14:1
At Iconium, Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue, where they spoke so wellthat a great number of Jews and Greeks believed.
Acts 17:2
As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with themfrom the Scriptures,
Acts 18:19
When they reached Ephesus, Paul parted ways with Priscilla and Aquila. He himself went into the synagogue there and reasoned with the Jews.
Acts 19:26
Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
Matthew 16:15-17
He[Jesus]said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Luke 15:11-32
And he said, “There was a man who had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.’ And he divided his property between them. 13 Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living. 14 And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. 16 And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything.
17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants.”’ 20 And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. 23 And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.’ And they began to celebrate.
25 “Now his older son was in the field, and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 And he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. 27 And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and sound.’ 28 But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, 29 but he answered his father, ‘Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!’ 31 And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.’”
Now notice that the Son was the following :
A ) he was dead
B ) he was lost
So we have a dead son who was lost and on his own realized that he was better off as a slave back at his Fathers house. So as one who is dead he realized his lost state and was able to make his own decision to repent and return to his Fathers house and become a servant. This is the opposite of what Calvinists teach.
We know that Salvation is of the Lord . We know that the Father was not obligated to forgive and restore the son. The son recognized his sin and repented of it and his Father forgave and restored him. The son humbled himself, God didn't, the son repented, God didn't do that for him by granting it to him, the dead son returned home, the Father did not call him home. The Father restored the son after the son repented . Calvinists conflate Gods salvation( Savior ) and mans responsibility to humble themselves and repent of their sin.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
Nope, because Grace gives Spiritual life from the dead Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[make alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
A dead person needs life first b4 they are enabled.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Dizerner
Well-known member
This is your assertion, but you are limiting the grace of God, which can do many things.
Because the grace of God can do Y does not mean it cannot also do Z, that's a fallacy.
civic
Well-known member
Wrong I just proved it with lots of scripture that exposed the heretical teaching on dead used by Calvinists
brightfame52
Well-known member
Grace makes live from the dead Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Before one can do anything spiritual, they need to first be resurrected from the dead, saved from death, and Grace does that
brightfame52
Well-known member
A spiritually dead person has no spiritual trust, that goes for , anyone
Dizerner
Well-known member
False, that's Calvinism imposed on the text.
Even most Calvinists admit to a so-called "common grace," you are the hyper variety.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Before one can do anything spiritual, they need to first be resurrected from the dead, saved from death, and Grace does that, see Grace makes alive first Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),NKJV
MTMattie
Well-known member
Assuming a spiritually dead person knows they are spiritually dead.
Dizerner
Well-known member
False, the world is convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit. The world is defined here as those who do not believe:
8 "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 "of sin, because they do not believe in Me; (Jn. 16:8-9 NKJ)
brightfame52
Well-known member
They dont know
brightfame52
Well-known member
You in the dark about Gods Grace, its Sovereign, it reigns through Jesus Christ Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
So Grace abolishes the death that sin caused to reign, so thats why it makes alive them dead in sin Eph 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Dizerner
Well-known member
In the dark for clearly quoting Scripture that you flat out deny... absurd.
It is resisting the Holy Spirit to stubbornly stay with false doctrine.
I will not listen to such stubbornness, nor give its opinions any respect.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yeah, you dont know nothing about the Sovereign Grace of God friend, it reigns through Jesus Christ Rom5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Dizerner
Well-known member
See you at the Judgment Seat, you cannot say I did not warn you of your false doctrine.
brightfame52
Well-known member
We will see at the Judgment ! Tulip is the Gospel, and Grace reigns and makes alive !
Here is where you completely overlooked the words "to become" within the phrase "to them He gave authority to become children of God".
You did that deliberately in order to distort Saint John's sacred words. You have no shame in mangling Saint John's sacred words.
Thus, "as many as received Him" (John 1:12) it follows that "to them He gave authority to become children of God" (John 1:12).
Saint John further enforces "to the ones believing in his name" (John 1:12) "He gave authority to become children of God (John 1:12).
This is a double emphasis that those who actively received Him and believe into His name are them He gave authority to become children of God.
And how does one become children of God? By being "born of God" (John 1:13) which only God has the capability of doing.
Therefore, "received Him" (John 1:12) and "belief into His name" comes before "to become children of God" i.e.: "born of God"
Thus, Calvinism crashes and burns before our very eyes.
Therefore, I will proceed to separate your heretical words from John's sacred words that you highlighted by jettising your heretical distorted comments and keeping Saint John's sacred words as follows:
In summary, only Saint John's holy words remain. You have no shame in mangling John's sacred words. You completely overlooked the phrase "to become" in John 1:12 in order to distort John's sacred message.
As I told you before, and I'm telling you again. If you want me to even consider addressing your points, then you need to apologize to Red Baker for your long standing and repeated position of bearing false witness against him as shown per the below. You need to apologize publicly in this forum for your publicly visible behavior.
@brightfame52, synergy's falsified "overlooked" was addressed in the post to which synergy replied and post #5,669, yet both posts were addressed to you which included the concept that the born of God become the children of God per Saint John's Gospel (John 1:9-13), and synergy!s heart visibly nullifies Lord Jesus Christ's blessed “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) along with the Apostle John's words recorded in John 1:9-13 in relation to this blessed Word of God. @brightfame52, the remainder of this post is specifically to @synergy.
Self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) you continues to refuse to apologize, that is clear, and you persist in bearing false witness against @Red Baker who stated:
Nicodemus' child like confession proved that he was already born of the Spirit of God, or, else he would had been just like the other leaders of the Pharisees who said that jesus did what he did under the power of the prince of the devils
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE BE TO GOD FOR CHRIST’S SALVATION!!!
