An Article on free will

[Joe]

Man by nature is a servant of sin, slave to sin, his mind will heart and affections.

I would think everyone would agree man by disposition lives to gratify the lust of the flesh, lust of the yes, and the pride of life.

But that does not mean man cannot go against his will and not gratify his fleshly desires. Man does it everyday constantly. We teach our kids self-control, and we adults have to control ourselves. Self-control is to deny your inherent behavior by not acting upon it and to behave differently. This is in essence reform.

So to think man cannot choose to go against his own will is not true. Man is fully capable of denying his desires. We do it everyday.

When man hears a message, he can accept it or reject it. To this very day, people reject the message with evidence that cigarette smoking causes cancer and begin smoking. And then there are those who have heard and accept the message and never smoke.

When man hears the message of God's love for them in Jesus Christ, they can choose to reject it and stay devoted to gratifying their fleshly lusts, or they can deny themselves and come to God obediently by faith.

When man denies himself and comes to God by faith in Christ, the man is freed from the power of his flesh and lives under the influence and desires of the Spirit.

Man must decide to receive a new life joined with God in Christ,; this is a transformation of life and not reformation, or man can reject it because they love their sinful life and this world and decides not to change.

God Bless

 

[brightfame52]

I would think everyone would agree man by disposition lives to gratify the lust of the flesh, lust of the yes, and the pride of life.

But that does not mean man cannot go against his will and not gratify his fleshly desires. Man does it everyday constantly. We teach our kids self-control, and we adults have to control ourselves. Self-control is to deny your inherent behavior by not acting upon it and to behave differently. This is in essence reform.

So to think man cannot choose to go against his own will is not true. Man is fully capable of denying his desires. We do it everyday.

When man hears a message, he can accept it or reject it. To this very day, people reject the message with evidence that cigarette smoking causes cancer and begin smoking. And then there are those who have heard and accept the message and never smoke.

When man hears the message of God's love for them in Jesus Christ, they can choose to reject it and stay devoted to gratifying their fleshly lusts, or they can deny themselves and come to God obediently by faith.

When man denies himself and comes to God by faith in Christ, the man is freed from the power of his flesh and lives under the influence and desires of the Spirit.

Man must decide to receive a new life joined with God in Christ,; this is a transformation of life and not reformation, or man can reject it because they love their sinful life and this world and decides not to change.

God Bless

Man by nature cant spiritually hear and understand the word of God, he must first be of God Jesus also said of natural men Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[civic]

Man by nature cant spiritually hear and understand the word of God, he must first be of God Jesus also said of natural men Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

sure they can the rich man who was "dead" could hear and understand with Lazarus , he was begging for his brothers to be warned. the prodigal son who was DEAD came to his senses .

so much for dead

 

[brightfame52]

sure they can the rich man who was "dead" could hear and understand with Lazarus , he was begging for his brothers to be warned. the prodigal son who was DEAD came to his senses .

so much for dead

Are you talking about the rich man in hell ?

 

[Frank Russell]

Psalm 115 talks about how people lived their lives affects their spiritual condition in the afterlife. Apparently idol/ cellphone worshippers become like their object of worship and are unable to see, hear, feel, etc anything.

 

[TomL]

Man by nature cant spiritually hear and understand the word of God, he must first be of God Jesus also said of natural men Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

UM

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

seems they are capable of believing

 

[Bubba]

Psalm 115 talks about how people lived their lives affects their spiritual condition in the afterlife. Apparently idol/ cellphone worshippers become like their object of worship and are unable to see, hear, feel, etc anything.

Cell phone worshipers... first time I ever heard that.

The saying goes, “Give credit where credit is due.” When it comes to receiving honor and glory, believers discover only One deserves all the credit: “Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, But to Your name give glory” (Psalm 115:1, NKJV).

Why should glory not be unto us (Psalm 115:1)? | GotQuestions.org

Why should glory not be unto us? What is the meaning of Psalm 115:1?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[brightfame52]

UM

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

seems they are capable of believing

According to Jesus in Jn 8 47 who hears the word of God

 

[TomL]

According to Jesus in Jn 8 47 who hears the word of God

The point is Jesus has argued throughout John's gospel the reason the Jews did not believe him was because they had not believed God. There is nothing in John gospel which teaches man has no capacity to believe thev word of God

To the contrary the bible presupposes the capability


John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.


John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

The point is Jesus has argued throughout John's gospel the reason the Jews did not believe him was because they had not believed God. There is nothing in John gospel which teaches man has no capacity to believe thev word of God

To the contrary the bible presupposes the capability


John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.


John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Jesus tells us who hears the word of God Spiritually.

 

[TomL]

Jesus tells us who hears the word of God Spiritually.

You are repeating yourself and isolating Christs words from their context. Jesus is extolling why the Jews did not believe him. They were not of God. That is they did not believe God. Had they believed God, they would have believed him.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-54521

 

[brightfame52]

You are repeating yourself and isolating Christs words from their context. Jesus is extolling why the Jews did not believe him. They were not of God. That is they did not believe God. Had they believed God, they would have believed him.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-54521

Truth needs repeating, Jesus tells us who hears the words of God, he that is of God, meaning born of God. If one hasnt never been born of God, Jesus says they cant hear nor understand [spiritually] the words of God Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Do you believe those whom Jesus stated unto " ye cannot hear my word" can use their freewill to reverse that and hear Gods word ?

 

[TomL]

Truth needs repeating, Jesus tells us who hears the words of God, he that is of God, meaning born of God. If one hasnt never been born of God, Jesus says they cant hear nor understand [spiritually] the words of God Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Do you believe those whom Jesus stated unto " ye cannot hear my word" can use their freewill to reverse that and hear Gods word ?

As noted previously

They could not believe Jesus because they did not believe God

Had they believed God, they would have believed Jesus. Men go from unbelief to belief all the time its called conversion

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-54521

 

[brightfame52]

As noted previously

They could not believe Jesus because they did not believe God

Had they believed God, they would have believed Jesus. Men go from unbelief to belief all the time its called conversion

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-54521

Only those of God can believe Gods words. The condition to hearing is regeneration. Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. By the way, Jesus and God are One and the Same. Do you believe Jesus is God ?

 

[TomL]

Only those of God can believe Gods words. The condition to hearing is regeneration. Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. By the way, Jesus and God are One and the Same. Do you believe Jesus is God ?

You are repeating yourself only those who believed God could believe Jesus. Nothing there suggests only unconditionally select men could believe God.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-54521

Jesus is God. He is not the Father however

 

[brightfame52]

You are repeating yourself only those who believed God could believe Jesus. Nothing there suggests only unconditionally select men could believe God.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-54521

Jesus is God. He is not the Father however

Okay, then you cant hear Gods word if not of God, its simple as that. You may hear it naturally like the spiritually dead jews did, however that profits nothing as to spiritual hearing with spiritual understanding.

 

[TomL]

Okay, then you cant hear Gods word if not of God, its simple as that. You may hear it naturally like the spiritually dead jews did, however that profits nothing as to spiritual hearing with spiritual understanding.

They did not hear Christ because they did not hear God

John 8:42–47 (NASB 2020) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

The passage is not saying every man is born with an inability to hear God

Rather Jesus argues the reason they do not hear him is that they do not hear God. Had they heard God, they would have heard Jesus. Had they loved God, they would have loved Jesus

The Jews had argued Abraham was their father. Jesus refutes that

John 8:39–42 (NASB 2020) — 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.”

They claimed god was their father

They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them,

Jesus refutes that

“If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me.

He is not teaching total inability to believe God

 

[civic]

They did not hear Christ because they did not hear God

John 8:42–47 (NASB 2020) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

The passage is not saying every man is born with an inability to hear God

Rather Jesus argues the reason they do not hear him is that they do not hear God. Had they heard God, they would have heard Jesus. Had they loved God, they would have loved Jesus

The Jews had argued Abraham was their father. Jesus refutes that

John 8:39–42 (NASB 2020) — 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.”

They claimed god was their father

They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them,

Jesus refutes that

“If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me.

He is not teaching total inability to believe God

Yes some ignore the context and isolate a verse to read into it their man made theology.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Okay, then you cant hear Gods word if not of God, its simple as that. You may hear it naturally like the spiritually dead jews did, however that profits nothing as to spiritual hearing with spiritual understanding.

Nonsense. The Gospel is preached in natural terms that parallel spiritual things. It is preached from man to man. Faith to faith. This alone provides revelation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

You claim to be spiritual but deny the Scriptures. What does that say about how you are like those Jews that rejected Jesus?

 

[brightfame52]

They did not hear Christ because they did not hear God

John 8:42–47 (NASB 2020) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

The passage is not saying every man is born with an inability to hear God

Rather Jesus argues the reason they do not hear him is that they do not hear God. Had they heard God, they would have heard Jesus. Had they loved God, they would have loved Jesus

The Jews had argued Abraham was their father. Jesus refutes that

John 8:39–42 (NASB 2020) — 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.”

They claimed god was their father

They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.”42 Jesus said to them,

Jesus refutes that

“If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me.

He is not teaching total inability to believe God

They Cant hear God because they were not of God