An Article on free will

TomL said:
2 Corinthians 5:20 (NASB 2020) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Isaiah 55:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you, Even the sure mercies of David.

Isaiah 45:22 (ESV) — 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isaiah 55:1 (ESV) — 1 “Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Revelation 22:17 (ESV) — 17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.
Click to expand...

You quoted lovely passages, TomL; on the other hand, your heart tries to nullify the Word of God "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21), so let's test your spirit, TomL, for the Apostle wrote "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

In 2 Corinthians 5:20, Paul is addressing specifically converts/believers (2 Corinthians 1:1); therefore, Paul is not addressing unconverted/unbelievers. Anyone who responded to Paul is under "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so one to be be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20) is entirely dependent on "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).

In Isaiah 55:3, Isaiah 45:22, and Isaiah 55:1, the Word of God issues commands, and commands do not convey ability. The Apostle Peter addressed the commands found in the Old Testament with "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear" (Acts 15:10), so one who obeys any of the commands is entirely dependent on "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).

In Revelation 22:17, the ONLY participants identified in the exchange are The Spirit and the Bride saying “Come.”. We are told of the presence of Holy God and the saints ("holy ones") only in Revelation 22:17. You better be careful about conveying that unholy ones are present, here, TomL, because adding to Revelation carries dire consequences (Revelation 22:18-19).

None of those passages that you quoted states that man can choose God unto salvation.

The Word of God explicitly excludes man from being able to choose God unto salvation with Christ's powerful:
  • "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
  • "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
  • "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for free-willians to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

We Christians are blessed of God to be chosen by Lord Jesus without us being required to do any kind of work because the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation)! PRAISE BE TO THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!!
 
In John:27–29, Jesus told them that God’s salvation is a gift—‘which the Son of Man will give you’—and that all that was required was to believe in what God had done for them. But they couldn’t get their heads around this: ‘What must we do to do the works God requires?’

All they had to do was believe.
 
Kermos said:
You quoted lovely passages, TomL; on the other hand, your heart tries to nullify the Word of God "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21), so let's test your spirit, TomL, for the Apostle wrote "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

In 2 Corinthians 5:20, Paul is addressing specifically converts/believers (2 Corinthians 1:1); therefore, Paul is not addressing unconverted/unbelievers. Anyone who responded to Paul is under "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so one to be be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20) is entirely dependent on "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).

In Isaiah 55:3, Isaiah 45:22, and Isaiah 55:1, the Word of God issues commands, and commands do not convey ability. The Apostle Peter addressed the commands found in the Old Testament with "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear" (Acts 15:10), so one who obeys any of the commands is entirely dependent on "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).

In Revelation 22:17, the ONLY participants identified in the exchange are The Spirit and the Bride saying “Come.”. We are told of the presence of Holy God and the saints ("holy ones") only in Revelation 22:17. You better be careful about conveying that unholy ones are present, here, TomL, because adding to Revelation carries dire consequences (Revelation 22:18-19).

None of those passages that you quoted states that man can choose God unto salvation.

The Word of God explicitly excludes man from being able to choose God unto salvation with Christ's powerful:
  • "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
  • "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
  • "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for free-willians to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

We Christians are blessed of God to be chosen by Lord Jesus without us being required to do any kind of work because the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation)! PRAISE BE TO THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!!
Click to expand...
Wonderfull verses you turn around and deny

This is an universal call

2 Corinthians 5:20 (NASB 2020) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

sorry the ideas Paul is calling on believers to be reconciled is absurd

World is not synonymous with the elect or believers

God was reconciling the world which is then instructed to be reconciles to God

2 Corinthians 5:19–20 (ESV) — 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.


Isaiah 55:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you, Even the sure mercies of David.



Isaiah 45:22 (ESV) — 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isaiah 55:1 (ESV) — 1 “Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Again we have a universal call which your theology denies



Revelation 22:17 (ESV) — 17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.
 
TomL said:
Sorry God regenerates those who receive Christ

(5) The “children of God.”—Those who are “begotten of God” are ipso facto “children of God” (tékna theoú, Jn 1:12; 11:52; 1 Jn 3:1, 2, 10; 5:2).1
1 R. Law, “Johannine, Theology, The,” ed. James Orr et al., The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia (Chicago: The Howard-Severance Company, 1915), 1703.

CHILDREN OF GOD. Persons in this category are only those who of the fallen race are regenerated as a result of faith in Christ1
1 Merrill F. Unger, “Children of God,” ed. R.K. Harrison, The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1988).

The indwelling of the spirit predicated on sonship Gal 4:6

Galatians 4:6 (ESV) — 6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

So one is given the right to be a child of God through receiving christ


John 1:12-13 (KJV)

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

confirmed

Galatians 3:26 (ESV) — 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

and being a son one is given the Spirit Gal 4:6 see above


Children of God (tekna theou). In the full spiritual sense, not as mere offspring of God true of all men (Acts 17:28). Paul's phrase huioi theou (Galatians 3:26) for believers, used also by Jesus of the pure in heart (Matthew 5:9), does not occur in John's Gospel (but in Rev. 21:7). It is possible that John prefers ta tekna tou theou for the spiritual children of God whether Jew or Gentile (John 11:52) because of the community of nature (teknon from root tek-, to beget). But one cannot follow Westcott in insisting on "adoption" as Paul's reason for the use of huioi since Jesus uses huioi theou in Matthew 5:9. Clearly the idea of regeneration is involved here as in John 3:3.
Word Pictures in the New Testament. A.T. Robertson


Sons (τέκνα)
Rev., more correctly, children. Son is υἱός. Τέκνον, child (τίκτω, to bring forth), denotes a relation based on community of nature
Word Studies in the New Testament.



τέκνα θ. γενέσθαι] The spiritual life owes its beginning to a birth from above, ch. 3:3–7. And this birth is owing to the Holy Spirit of God; so that this is equivalent to saying, ‘As many as received Him, to them gave He His Holy Spirit.’ And we find that it was so: see Acts 10:44.
Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 684.
Click to expand...
Those taught of God are the regenerated, being taught by the Spirit, thats part of the drawing process. Its a Covenant blessing 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Spirit teaches the regenerated elect, its a NT Covenant Blessing in Salvation Heb 8:11

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Isa 54:13

And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Those taught of God the Spirit comes to Christ. The word taught in Jn 6:45 is the same word in 1 Cor 2:13 referring to the Spirit,

3 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

This teaching results in coming to Christ, believing in Him as stated in Jn 6:45

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God[The Spirit]. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 
TomL said:
To be taught one must hear and learn (believe)

John 6:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
but that depends on the will and one may hear but not believe
Jeremiah 32:33 (ESV) — 33 They have turned to me their back and not their face. And though I have taught them persistently, they have not listened to receive instruction.
Click to expand...
Very true Tom.

And let's look at how weird things get with Calvinism. They would be forced to acknowledge that the Jeremiah 32:33 verse above is true. That God taught them persistently but they believe man is spiritually dead in the strange way they teach about what a spiritual dead person is...so we can picture someone getting a bunch of lifeless dolls......putting them behind desks like in a classroom and then the live teacher teaching the dolls persistently.

Then the teacher laments the facts that the dolls won't receive the instruction but what would be the point of teaching them persistently to begin with? To even express a grief they wouldn't respond would be to question the sanity of the one who is teaching. So our Calvinists friends need to have the courage to ask themselves what's the point? They might say it's all for God's glory......for God's glory??? For something to bring glory to one that means something which causes us to look upon another in a positive light. What possibly could be anything positive to take away with someone doing something with no meaning?

One can't even say it's logical to assume the one's being taught could have received the instruction. There doesn't have to be any assuming it at all. It would merely be a fact.
 
brightfame52 said:
Those taught of God are the regenerated, being taught by the Spirit, thats part of the drawing process. Its a Covenant blessing 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Spirit teaches the regenerated elect, its a NT Covenant Blessing in Salvation Heb 8:11

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Isa 54:13

And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Those taught of God the Spirit comes to Christ. The word taught in Jn 6:45 is the same word in 1 Cor 2:13 referring to the Spirit,

3 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

This teaching results in coming to Christ, believing in Him as stated in Jn 6:45

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God[The Spirit]. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Click to expand...
No one was regenerated in John 6. Where do you see that in John 6 ?

next
 
Aeliana said:
First your saved then comes regeneration. You're putting the Cart in front of the horse.
Click to expand...
You must be regenerated first, which is a Spiritual saving Tyrus 3:5 then you will come to Christ, believe on Him. And believing on Christ isnt believing in the false christ of arminainism, its the Christ of particular, effectual redemption.
 
brightfame52 said:
You must be regenerated first, which is a Spiritual saving Tyrus 3:5 then you will come to Christ, believe on Him. And believing on Christ isnt believing in the false christ of arminainism, its the Christ of particular, effectual redemption.
Click to expand...
Well yes that is what Calvinists believe but not the majority of Christians. The biblical calls to believe in Christ as Savior are key:

16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life
John 3:16

And they answered, Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ [give yourself up to Him, take yourself out of your own keeping and entrust yourself into His keeping] and you will be saved, [and this applies both to] you and your household as well.
Acts 16:31

If people are unable to believe without God first regenerating them, witnessing is pointless. God does not command people to do what they are incapable of doing. Calling people to believe in Christ when they are incapable of doing so on their own, and then judging them for their lack of faith, would be unfair and unjust. Further, if God must regenerate people in order for them to have faith, essentially “installing” faith in people, God would essentially be forcing people into salvation. Draging them kicking and screaming to the cross.
 
brightfame52 said:
You cant see it in scripture
Click to expand...
You can see it in scripture that faith precedes salvation, life, eternal life, regeneration, born again, new birth etc.......

Jesus and the Prophets and Apostles all taught faith comes before life/salvation/regeneration.

Jesus never once taught that faith was given , granted or a gift .He said " YOUR FAITH " has saved and healed you. Not the faith I gave you has saved you, healed you.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( not the faith I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith (not the faith I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( not the faith I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith(not the faith I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

FAITH PRECEDES REGENERATION

Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.

1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life
7- conversion
8- repentance
9- justification
10- sanctification
11- glorification




hope this helps !!!
 

Similar threads

brightfame52
Salvation is according to the will of God
5 6 7
Replies
124
Views
999
civic
civic
civic
God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES
63 64 65
Replies
1K
Views
12K
TomL
T
civic
Our Divine Messiah
Replies
2
Views
89
101G
101G
P
Knowing God through knowing nature
Replies
1
Views
33
praise_yeshua
P
T
Refuting effectually caused faith
70 71 72
Replies
1K
Views
20K
brightfame52
brightfame52
Back
Top Bottom