An Article on free will

[brightfame52]

You can see it in scripture that faith precedes salvation, life, eternal life, regeneration, born again, new birth etc.......

Jesus and the Prophets and Apostles all taught faith comes before life/salvation/regeneration.

Jesus never once taught that faith was given , granted or a gift .He said " YOUR FAITH " has saved and healed you. Not the faith I gave you has saved you, healed you.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( not the faith I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith (not the faith I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( not the faith I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith(not the faith I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

FAITH PRECEDES REGENERATION

Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.

1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life
7- conversion
8- repentance
9- justification
10- sanctification
11- glorification




hope this helps !!!

See when I give scripture evidence of what I see in scripture, doesnt mean you see it. Im responsible to witness what's reveled to me, not you

 

[civic]

See when I give scripture evidence of what I see in scripture, doesnt mean you see it. Im responsible to witness what's reveled to me, not you

I can see that you cannot see the truth from all the scriptures I quoted from Jesus and the Prophets and Apostles. You remain in willful unbelief by rejecting the truth and light you have been shown in the bible. Only Jesus can open up your eyes and heart to see the truth.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Rowan]

@Rowan



Its what Gods word teaches

That's your opinion. Not everyone shares your opinion. Some of us have a different opinion.

 

[Rowan]

no scripture supports that assumption- faith always precedes life- one must believe to receive life John 1:12, 3:16-18, 20:31.

I hear that

 

[brightfame52]

I can see that you cannot see the truth from all the scriptures I quoted from Jesus and the Prophets and Apostles. You remain in willful unbelief by rejecting the truth and light you have been shown in the bible. Only Jesus can open up your eyes and heart to see the truth.

hope this helps !!!

I have shown you scripture, you cant see it

 

[civic]

I hear that

yes those with ears to hear and eyes to see can learn from the Father John 6.

John 6:32-70
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Desert Jesus​

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

conclusion: So must for TULIP in this passage. Its the opposite of tulip.

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

That's your opinion. Not everyone shares your opinion. Some of us have a different opinion.

Right my opinion. Im not here to voice your opinion. My opinion has been formulated by the Spirit of God

 

[Aeliana]

You must be regenerated first, which is a Spiritual saving Tyrus 3:5 then you will come to Christ, believe on Him. And believing on Christ isnt believing in the false christ of arminainism, its the Christ of particular, effectual redemption.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

 

[civic]

Right my opinion. Im not here to voice your opinion. My opinion has been formulated by the Spirit of God

John 12:32 when I am lifted up I will draw all men, everyone to Me.

I believe Jesus and the Holy Sprit, not you.

The gospel is for everyone as promised by Jesus . John 3:16 cf Matthew 28:18-20.

hope this helps !!!

 

[TomL]

Very true Tom.

And let's look at how weird things get with Calvinism. They would be forced to acknowledge that the Jeremiah 32:33 verse above is true. That God taught them persistently but they believe man is spiritually dead in the strange way they teach about what a spiritual dead person is...so we can picture someone getting a bunch of lifeless dolls......putting them behind desks like in a classroom and then the live teacher teaching the dolls persistently.

Then the teacher laments the facts that the dolls won't receive the instruction but what would be the point of teaching them persistently to begin with? To even express a grief they wouldn't respond would be to question the sanity of the one who is teaching. So our Calvinists friends need to have the courage to ask themselves what's the point? They might say it's all for God's glory......for God's glory??? For something to bring glory to one that means something which causes us to look upon another in a positive light. What possibly could be anything positive to take away with someone doing something with no meaning?

One can't even say it's logical to assume the one's being taught could have received the instruction. There doesn't have to be any assuming it at all. It would merely be a fact.

Some additional scriptures

Isaiah 30:9–16 (ESV) — 9 For they are a rebellious people, lying children, children unwilling to hear the instruction of the LORD; 10 who say to the seers, “Do not see,” and to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us what is right; speak to us smooth things, prophesy illusions, 11 leave the way, turn aside from the path, let us hear no more about the Holy One of Israel.” 12 Therefore thus says the Holy One of Israel, “Because you despise this word and trust in oppression and perverseness and rely on them, 13 therefore this iniquity shall be to you like a breach in a high wall, bulging out and about to collapse, whose breaking comes suddenly, in an instant; 14 and its breaking is like that of a potter’s vessel that is smashed so ruthlessly that among its fragments not a shard is found with which to take fire from the hearth, or to dip up water out of the cistern.” 15 For thus said the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel, “In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and in trust shall be your strength.” But you were unwilling, 16 and you said, “No! We will flee upon horses”; therefore you shall flee away; and, “We will ride upon swift steeds”; therefore your pursuers shall be swift.

Romans 10:18–21 (ESV) — 18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” 19 But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.” 20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.” 21 But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”

Jeremiah 44:15–17 (ESV) — 15 Then all the men who knew that their wives had made offerings to other gods, and all the women who stood by, a great assembly, all the people who lived in Pathros in the land of Egypt, answered Jeremiah: 16 “As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of the LORD, we will not listen to you. 17 But we will do everything that we have vowed, make offerings to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we did, both we and our fathers, our kings and our officials, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, and prospered, and saw no disaster.

Jeremiah 18:7–12 (ESV) — 7 If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, 8 and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. 9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it. 11 Now, therefore, say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: ‘Thus says the LORD, Behold, I am shaping disaster against you and devising a plan against you. Return, every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your deeds.’ 12 “But they say, ‘That is in vain! We will follow our own plans, and will every one act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’

Jeremiah 3:19–20 (ESV) — 19 “ ‘I said, How I would set you among my sons, and give you a pleasant land, a heritage most beautiful of all nations. And I thought you would call me, My Father, and would not turn from following me. 20 Surely, as a treacherous wife leaves her husband, so have you been treacherous to me, O house of Israel, declares the LORD.’ ”



Isaiah 65:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, That forget my holy mountain, That prepare a table for that troop, And that furnish the drink offering unto that number. 12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, And ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: Because when I called, ye did not answer; When I spake, ye did not hear; But did evil before mine eyes, And did choose that wherein I delighted not.

 

[Aeliana]

You must be regenerated first, which is a Spiritual saving Tyrus 3:5 then you will come to Christ, believe on Him. And believing on Christ isnt believing in the false christ of arminainism, its the Christ of particular, effectual redemption.

You realize of course if you're wrong how bad that'll look at the judgment right? If you are wrong you just called Jesus "A false Christ" That might not go over so good for you good seeing how you're believing in a man-made theology.

 

[Aeliana]

Right my opinion. Im not here to voice your opinion. My opinion has been formulated by the Spirit of God

Already then, I'm glad we got that straightened out. Make sure you test the spirits.

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).

This is true in all situations but most importantly when a person is claiming to speak for God.

 

[TomL]

Right my opinion. Im not here to voice your opinion. My opinion has been formulated by the Spirit of God

No it has not. It has been formulated by gnostic inspiration which cannot address rebuttal

 

[civic]

Already then, I'm glad we got that straightened out. Make sure you test the spirits.

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).

This is true in all situations but most importantly when a person is claiming to speak for God.

Yes its a great test for the real Jesus and the real gospel since we know Jesus and Paul both taught there are false christs and false gospels.

 

[Cyrus]

No it has not. It has been formulated by gnostic inspiration which cannot address rebuttal

Ouch, Yes a good rebuttal tops an opinion every time. God could have made us like machines. Machines do what they’re supposed to do without thinking about doing anything different or considering why they do whatever they do. But he didn't he gave us a free will to choose him.

Scripture shows that we humans have minds and wills of their own.

Surely, this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too hard for you, nor is it too far away…See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, death and adversity. If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I am commanding you today, by loving the Lord your God, walking in his ways, and observing his commandments, decrees, and ordinances, then you shall live and become numerous, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you do not hear, but are led astray to bow down to other gods and serve them, I declare to you today that you shall perish…I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live…. Deut. 30:11–19

 

[TomL]

Ouch, Yes a good rebuttal tops an opinion every time. God could have made us like machines. Machines do what they’re supposed to do without thinking about doing anything different or considering why they do whatever they do. But he didn't he gave us a free will to choose him.

Scripture shows that we humans have minds and wills of their own.

Surely, this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too hard for you, nor is it too far away…See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, death and adversity. If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I am commanding you today, by loving the Lord your God, walking in his ways, and observing his commandments, decrees, and ordinances, then you shall live and become numerous, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you do not hear, but are led astray to bow down to other gods and serve them, I declare to you today that you shall perish…I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live…. Deut. 30:11–19

Yes Deut 30:11-19 is a good one

so also is

Joshua 24:15–25 (KJV 1900) — 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. 23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel. 24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey. 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.

 

[brightfame52]

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

You must be regenerated first, which is a Spiritual saving Titus 3:5 then you will come to Christ, believe on Him. And believing on Christ isnt believing in the false christ of arminainism, its the Christ of particular, effectual redemption.

 

[brightfame52]

John 12:32 when I am lifted up I will draw all men, everyone to Me.

I believe Jesus and the Holy Sprit, not you.

The gospel is for everyone as promised by Jesus . John 3:16 cf Matthew 28:18-20.

hope this helps !!!

Jn 12:32 is the Sheep, the drawing is when they are regenerated. Also Jn 12:32 sets forth the saving, converting Death of Christ. None of them shall be lost

 

[brightfame52]

You realize of course if you're wrong how bad that'll look at the judgment right? If you are wrong you just called Jesus "A false Christ" That might not go over so good for you good seeing how you're believing in a man-made theology.

You must be regenerated first, which is a Spiritual saving Titus 3:5 then you will come to Christ, believe on Him. And believing on Christ isnt believing in the false christ of arminainism, its the Christ of particular, effectual redemption.

 

[brightfame52]

Already then, I'm glad we got that straightened out. Make sure you test the spirits.

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).

This is true in all situations but most importantly when a person is claiming to speak for God.

You not talking about nothing friend