praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It is not "YOU". It is US.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
It is not "YOU". It is US.
Who do not support the Calvinist take
Afraid not
Receive is paralambano
it is an Aorist active verb
It is not those who received him were passively given Christ, but that they actively received him.
According to BAGD
It means to recognize his authority
e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a, b, c, d
Christ does not enter men unconditionally
According to Paul
Romans 4:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
believing on Christ is not a form of works salvation
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Us is mankind
The beloved are not in need of repentance or in danger of perishing
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
The difference between you and us depends on the translation you're using. NIV says "you" and gets that from the Greek manuscripts they used. The same is true for the NASB. It's "you" there.
Regardless, whether it's "you" (the intended recipients) or "us" (those of us who are believers, again, the intended recipients), it can't possibly be all mankind.
So you say however
the beloved are not in need of repentance or in danger of perishing
And all mankind is consistent with what we see throughout scripture
Isaiah 45:22 (ESV) — 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
Acts 17:30 (ESV) — 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,
Ezekiel 18:32 (ESV) — 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live.”
Ezekiel 33:11 (ESV) — 11 Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?
1 Timothy 2:4 (ESV) — 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) — 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Isa 45:22 is limited to the Elect, also known as Israel, not the ethnic nation.
Who is Salvation promised to in Isa 45:17 ?
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Vs 22 is the effectual call of the saved Israel of God, from all nations
"To him that worketh not", work has nothing to do with it. Faith is not a work.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
The only relevant scriptures are 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9. I've already demonstrated that "you" or "us" refers to the intended recipients (you) or Peter+the intended recipients (us).
1 Timothy 2:4 requires the context. He said to pray for kings and those in authority, because God doesn't just want common people to come to the truth, but also kings and those in authority. I can relate to this message because the natural me has no desire to pray for Biden, but Paul is saying that I should. So, all people is not referring to all mankind.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
US is less discriminate than "YOU" in the English language.
It is more difficult to make the case you're trying to make relative to "us".
If you want to discuss, I will. Either way, the case you're trying to make isn't established whether it is you or us. God is longsuffering to all of humanity. That is why depraved people live for a very long time. Many have to experience the suffering of depravity before they "look up".
Nope they had no need of repentance nor were they in danger of perishing
Your theology can demonstrate no need for long suffering on the part of God as he controls when men are made to repent
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
Necrophilia - a dead corpse
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
What?
I'm just curious... If you don't know who the elect are.... then how can you possibly discriminate in prayer?
You're not thinking this through. Kings are included whether they are elect or not. Not all Kings are elect.
The idea that you're only praying for the elect is entirely bogus nonsense.
brightfame52
Well-known member
God knows who His Elect are, we simply pray that the Lord be pleased to convert His elect, bring them to a saving knowledge of the Truth . Haven't you ever heard the prayer " Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
When did I ever say I pray only for the elect? Seriously you just make up stuff out of thin air. I have no idea (referring to people I don't know personally) who is among the elect and who isn't, so I speak truth to everyone. God can take it from there if He sees fit.
Rockson
Well-known member
Whatever can this mean? So you pray that the Lord will be pleased to convert ones you consider to be the elect? Are you thinking he would change his mind? That would mean therefore you have no confidence in what you think he's ordained to take place! If you're not thinking there's a possibility for that to exist then really what is your purpose of prayer?
Sure we've heard that prayer. But you are not really praying for something to be done. You're just making a declaration your will, will be done there's no request in your prayer so it's not really a prayer. This is something a Calvinist needs to admit.
Thing is though folks Jesus did tell us to pray that his will, will be done and if we don't do that the Kingdom of God is not advance in the way God desires.
