Johann
Well-known member
And yet the Bible is silent re Adam and Eve after their expulsion from the garden, especially about their status-not so?
J.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
J.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
The Bible is not silent for the need of Jesus Christ for Eternal Life. Immortality.
Before the foundation of the world, Christ was purposed for such. People take this fact and misuse it.
I take this fact and place it as a necessity for Eternal Life period. The right to Eternal Life isn't just about the absence of sin. It much more.
Where in that verse does it say anything about a spirit?
Johann
Well-known member
I was talking about Adam and Eve-Romans goes in-depth what we are to do re crucifying everything about us. Powerful Imperatives.
J.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
So how did God choose to declare the power of the Son of God according to the spirit of holiness?
We see death differently.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Since we are such powerless and needy creatures (Adam from the beginning)......there nothing but faith for us.
Do you think Satan understands this? That only through believing God can ANY THING be just in the eyes of God?
Isa 45:5 For I am the Lord God, and there is no other God beside me; I strengthened thee, and thou hast not known me.
Isa 45:6 That they that come from the east and they that come from the west may know that there is no God but me. I am the Lord God, and there is none beside.
None alone but God. Somewhat of a parallel in "none righteous" enough. To be equal with God. The death of God in humanity is essential to Eternal Life for humanity.
The Humility of our Sovereign.
Johann
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
Jesus is a Divine Person. So God the Son died in the flesh.
Johann
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
And what did that accomplish ? And for who ?
Johann
Well-known member
Selah
Active member
for His kids
Johann
Well-known member
If it is of no edification to you, may it bless others who are hungry for God's word.
J.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
I'm referring to baptism which takes away the sins of man as is taught in scripture.
I don't believe babies require baptizing.
The other member believes that man is born with sin already on his soul because he is guilty of Adam's sin.
The bible teaches that one man cannot be guilty of another man's sin....so the other member is not correct in believing that we are actually guilty of Adam's sin.
Since nothing unclean can enter into heaven as is taught in Revelation 21:27....and the other member believes that babies are born with Adam's sin already on their soul,,,,then if the baby dies he will be going straight to hell, unless, of course, he has been baptized to take away his sin which he inhereted from Adam.
I'm not Catholic and I don't understand what Catholicism has to do with this. A few Protestant denominations baptize their newborns.
The point is that babies are NOT born guilty of Adam's sin because they did not COMMIT Adam's sin...
Adam did.
brightfame52
Well-known member
What did it accomplish ?
brightfame52
Well-known member
What did it accomplish ?for His kids
Johann
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
Did it save them He died for ?
Johann
Well-known member
While I appreciate what you say re "the other member" I want to leave you with this before signing off.
Historical Development of Original Sin in Christian Theology
Early Church Period (1st-4th centuries)
The earliest Christian writers didn't have a fully developed doctrine of original sin. While they acknowledged the universality of sin and death following Adam's disobedience, they generally emphasized human free will.
Justin Martyr (c.100-165) and Irenaeus (c.130-202) viewed Adam's sin as bringing death and a propensity toward sin, but not direct guilt. Irenaeus developed an influential "recapitulation theory," seeing Christ as a "second Adam" who reversed Adam's disobedience.
Clement of Alexandria (c.150-215) and Origen (c.185-254) acknowledged Adam's sin affected humanity but emphasized individual moral responsibility and freedom.
Augustine and the Pelagian Controversy (4th-5th centuries)
The doctrine became more formalized through Augustine of Hippo (354-430), who developed a comprehensive theory of original sin during his debates with Pelagius. Augustine argued:
Adam's sin corrupted human nature itself
All humans were "seminally present" in Adam when he sinned
Sin is transmitted through procreation (sometimes linked to concupiscence)
Humanity becomes a "mass of perdition" deserving condemnation
Divine grace is necessary for salvation
Pelagius rejected this view, maintaining that:
Adam's sin affected humanity only as a bad example
Each person is born free from sin with full ability to obey God
Humans can attain salvation through moral effort
The Church condemned Pelagianism at the Council of Carthage (418) and Council of Ephesus (431), largely affirming Augustine's position.
Medieval Development (6th-15th centuries)
Gregory the Great (540-604) and other early medieval theologians generally maintained Augustine's framework.
Anselm of Canterbury (1033-1109) refined the concept, distinguishing between original sin as the absence of original righteousness and actual sin as personal wrongdoing.
Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) further systematized the doctrine, viewing original sin primarily as the deprivation of original justice rather than a positive evil quality. He maintained that original sin was transmitted through natural generation.
Reformation Era (16th century)
Martin Luther (1483-1546) and John Calvin (1509-1564) revitalized and intensified Augustine's emphasis on humanity's total depravity resulting from Adam's sin. Calvin particularly emphasized:
Adam's sin rendered humanity utterly corrupt
Original sin affects every aspect of human nature
Humans inherit both guilt and corruption from Adam
Salvation comes exclusively through divine grace
The Council of Trent (1545-1563) solidified the Catholic position, affirming that original sin:
Is transmitted by propagation, not imitation
Is inherent in each person
Can be removed through baptism
Leaves concupiscence (tendency toward sin) even after baptism
Modern Developments (17th-21st centuries)
The doctrine continued to evolve with different emphases:
Liberal Theology (19th century): Focused on sin as social and moral failings rather than an inherited condition.
Neo-orthodoxy (20th century): Karl Barth and others reinterpreted original sin through existential and relational lenses rather than biological transmission.
Contemporary Catholic theology: Has increasingly emphasized social dimensions of sin while maintaining the tradition of original sin.
Liberation Theology: Has reconceptualized original sin in terms of systemic injustice and oppressive structures.
Throughout this development, Eastern Orthodox Christianity maintained its own distinctive understanding, focusing more on the inheritance of mortality and corruption rather than inherited guilt, and emphasizing theosis (deification) as the remedy.
"The Oxford Handbook of Original Sin" edited by Jesse Couenhoven
"Original Sin: A Cultural History" by Alan Jacobs
"The Doctrine of Original Sin" by Henri Blocher
"Original Sin: Illuminating the Riddle" by Henri Blocher
"Original Sin: A Study in American Theology and Culture" by Joseph Haroutunian
"Adam, the Fall, and Original Sin: Theological, Biblical, and Scientific Perspectives" edited by Hans Madueme and Michael Reeves
These sources contain detailed accounts of the historical development of the doctrine with proper citations and references. For free online resources, you might consider checking academic theological journals through resources like JSTOR or university theological departments that publish their materials online.
And then, of course, there's Utley--
https://www.freebiblecommentary.org/ years of in-depth studies and a fully downloadable software with thousands of video and mp3's.
Free, gratis, nada. You can also get it from e Sword free.
Maybe this will edify others.
Shalom.
J.
Selah
Active member
Yes.
