civic
Well-known member
The gospel is Gods grace for all.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
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Diserner
Well-known member
Mhm.
And grace is not "inherent goodness and ability," grace is the unmerited favor of God given us through Christ.
Diserner
Well-known member
What? Stop reading things into what I said to try to score a point, that's not honest dialogue.
civic
Well-known member
The gospel yep. And Leighton agrees it’s the gospel which brings grace that can be received by all.
It’s Gods means.
Diserner
Well-known member
The gospel yep. And Leighton agrees it’s the gospel which brings grace that can be received by all.
He equivocates a ton and doublespeaks just as much as any good Calvinist to hide his views about inability.
Jesus said "Without me you can do nothing."
That settles the issue, that's what God's Word says, inability is Biblical.
He makes grace to mean some kind of intellectual information concerning a message, instead of an inward change.
civic
Well-known member
Nope he affirms grace precedes from God through the gospel.
It’s the biblical model used by all the Apostles. They preached the gospel by which we are saved period.
Diserner
Well-known member
Nope he affirms grace precedes from God through the gospel.
You are completely wrong and I have proof in what he said.
So keep living in your unreality dream world and spamming smiles to feel better about yourself.
civic
Well-known member
I listen to him often and on his FB group. I know what he teaches and how he gets misrepresented. Just like the Arminian do with Calvinists and Calvinists with Arminians .You are completely wrong and I have proof in what he said.
So keep living in your unreality dream world and spamming smiles to feel better about yourself.
I will have to disagree with you there
if God has to harden men to prevent belief then clearly the capability for belief is there
and that is contrary to total inability.
However, I also agree with you that irresistible grace is an error
Diserner
Well-known member
No, you're just flat out wrong, that doesn't logically follow.
It's like Flowers was a hammer just looking around for a nail to pound Calvinism with no matter what.
You can't assume grace was never working in these people's lives since birth.
It's a complete non sequitur argument!
Scripture is CRYSTAL clear about total inability.
Jesus said apart from him we can do NOTHING.
You are in rebellion if you refuse to accept that.
Apparently you do not understand that total inability states men must be regenerated before they can believe
The doctrine is not satisfied unless regeneration is had
No, I just have to put it in context. It is speaking of bearing fruit not believing the gospel
civic
Well-known member
Exactly
I agree with the passages you quoted, but I disagree with your understanding and application of them.
God gave you a will to either obey Him or not. And like all of us, you of your own volition decided to disobey God and fall into sin on your very own. The devil did not make you do it, although he tempted you to do it. Once you sinned, you became enslaved to sin.
Once enslaved, God gave us His Word. We had to think about what we heard and engage our will to believe what was said or not. The Greek word for believed is πιστεύω which means to be firmly persuaded as to something. To be fully persuaded takes thought and a decision to trust what was promised, or to disregard it as untrustworthy.
The cost of following the Lord as spoken by Him in Luke 14:25-33 requires one to count the cost of what it takes to follow Him. This takes careful thought and a wholehearted decision to renounce all that he has and submit their life to the Lord.
You engaged your will to believe in Christ Jesus, and it stays engaged the whole time to stay fully persuaded. If it does not, then one will shrink back.
God Bless
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civic
Well-known member
ditto as we see the isms coming out lol.
I fully agree with you. Our Lord was speaking that we cannot live a Godly life without Him. The context of His statement was not meant to be all inclusive.
God Bless
