An Article on free will

[Johann]

Or your post deleted if you note they are violating the rules.

The clichéd of this thread.​

 

[TomL]

The clichéd of this thread.​

The verses you quoted?

 

[Johann]

The verses you quoted?

Triviality.

 

[brightfame52]

So what you are saying is you have no control over your decisions. You are a victim of Satan; not a follower who accepts the guidance of him. He forces you against your will to sin against God.

Let me just say for the record, that kite will not fly on judgment day.

The comedian Flip Wilson had a punchline where he would say, "the devil made me do it". It made people laugh because we all know the devil does not make us do anything. We choose to follow his guidance. We live according to the lies of the devil. The garden is absolute proof. Satan had no power over Adam or Eve. They gave an ear to Satan's lies and decided to follow his lying words rather than obey God's truthful Words. That same pattern replicates itself day after day to every human being ever born. There is only One who did not follow after Satan, and it was the Lord Jesus Christ. It wasn't because He used supernatural strength over Satan. It is because He loved God His Father over everything, including Himself, and quoted God's Words against Satan.

Read Romans 1:18-32. The Apostle Paul lays out God's rightful wrath against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. You will read where what can be known about God is plain to mankind, because He has shown it. But man exchanged God's glory for for false imagery, so God gave us up to our own sinful lusts. And because man did not want to retain the knowledge of God, He gave us over to a debased mind to do things we should not do. And at the end of it all, even though man knows God's righteous decree that people who live like this deserve death, we continued to do them and approve of others who did too.

God gave you a will to either obey Him or not. And like all of us, you of your own volition decided to disobey God and fall into sin on your very own. The devil did not make you do it, although he tempted you to do it..


God Bless

Im saying man by nature is governed in his mind by an evil nature and disposition Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Our will wasnt free from that government, sorry

 

[TomL]

Triviality.

Care to explain yourself?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

God was hardening, concealing truth as Christ had to fulfill his mission to go to the cross. Had multitudes believe that mission would be in jeopardy.

Ah, so what you're saying is that God can withhold salvation from some people if it's for a good cause?

 

[civic]

Ah, so what you're saying is that God can withhold salvation from some people if it's for a good cause?

no the people do not want Gods salvation so God gives them their wishes, He doesn't force Himself on anyone.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

no the people do not want Gods salvation so God gives them their wishes, He doesn't force Himself on anyone.

You're contradicting yourself here. Your original point was that these people could be saved, but Jesus deliberately withheld the information that would make them turn and be saved.

 

[civic]

You're contradicting yourself here. Your original point was that these people could be saved, but Jesus deliberately withheld the information that would make them turn and be saved.

Quote me in this thread , thanks

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Quote me in this thread , thanks

Wow, what a weasel way to avoid the contradiction. So it was in a different thread. So, what?

Why did Jesus speak in parables if calvinism is correct ?

We hear this all of the time comparing mans unregenerate state to that of Lazarus in the tomb in reformed/calvinist teachings.

The fact is calvinism's view on dead is wrong otherwise there would be no need to hide it from them. Why does Jesus need to hide truth from a dead corpse ?

See the contradiction ?

See the oxymoron ?

See the calvinists dilemma ?

In the real world we call this process cognitive dissonance, an inconsistent and contradictory belief. So much for total inability and Jesus need for parables. This is just another example of the inconsistent calvinist/reformed position. Why would God have to harden a dead corpse, a dead man having no ability to hear, see or perceive ?

hope this helps !!

 

[TomL]

Ah, so what you're saying is that God can withhold salvation from some people if it's for a good cause?

I am saying God temporarily hardened some people so he could affect redemption for a greater number.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I am saying God temporarily hardened some people so he could affect redemption for a greater number.

You're saying the same thing. God withheld salvation for some people for a good cause.

It's almost like God can make His own decisions and we just have to trust Him. Fancy that.

 

[TomL]

You're saying the same thing. God withheld salvation for some people for a good cause.

It's almost like God can make His own decisions and we just have to trust Him. Fancy that.

You have not addressed the point.

Fancy that,

Had those not been hardened, they could have believed

So much for your doctrine of total inability.

 

[TomL]

deleted accidental double.

 

[Dizerner]

If it is in defense of truth it is worthwhile

It is difficult to completely purify our motives.

The flesh just likes arguing, whether it's right or wrong.

 

[TomL]

It is difficult to completely purify our motives.

The flesh just likes arguing, whether it's right or wrong.

But more so when right

The Calvinist over there argue when wrong. They even argument against their own teachers.

A moderator argued against

Piper

MacArthur

Ligonier

PRCA

Murray

CARM

in addition to scripture

so there is truth in what you say

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

You have not addressed the point.

Fancy that,

Had those not been hardened, they could have believed

So much for your doctrine of total inability.

Which means God decides at any given time who will believe and who won't. Which is the #1 complaint about Calvinism.

 

[civic]

But more so when right

The Calvinist over there argue when wrong. They even argument against their own teachers.

A moderator argued against

Piper

MacArthur

Ligonier

PRCA

Murray

CARM

in addition to scripture

so there is truth in what you say

All over the map. Most have no idea what Calvin taught or what Calvinism actually teaches. I tell them then stop calling yourself a Calvinist lol.

 

[Dizerner]

So much for your doctrine of total inability.

It really has nothing to do with that. as much as Flowers wants to equivocate what grace means.

The wrong pillar of Calvinist is Irresistible Grace and not TD or inability.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

It really has nothing to do with that. as much as Flowers wants to equivocate what grace means.

The wrong pillar of Calvinist is Irresistible Grace and not TD or inability.

So what you get from the passage with the parable is that irresistible grace is wrong? How did you arrive at that conclusion?