An Article on free will

[TomL]

Please note, Romans 6:23 does not exclude grace nor faith as the gift of God.

Lets see

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Only salvation is mentioned

Your grammatical error resides in "And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part" where you (1) indiscriminately eliminate the feminine noun faith while retaining the feminine noun grace, (2) unilaterally associated the most distant word grace while disassociating the nearest word faith in relation to the word that, and (3) use illegal Greek grammar to bind the word that to the verb saved at the exclusion of the noun faith. The following delves into the legal Greek grammar.

Um I quoted a premiere Greek scholar

For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.

Did you fail to see it is salvation which is God's gift

Further, I stated nothing whatsoever about retaining grace or making it the gift. In fact, my quote shows both to be feminine and thus inconsistent with a neuter touto.

You need to correct your fallacious claim.

 

[TomL]

@TomL

Really, Tom?

Philippians 1:29​

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”

Does not mean what you think

Philippians 1:29–30 (KJV 1900) — 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; 30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

Here the word given is

χαρίζομαι it means to show favor


Many Calvinists argue that passages that mention God “granting” or “enabling” belief or repentance support the notion that God has specifically chosen certain individuals for salvation while excluding others. However, these passages actually illustrate God’s decision to extend His invitation to believe and repent first to the Jews and subsequently to the Gentiles. By hearing the message of faith, the Gentiles receive God’s granted repentance and the opportunity for eternal life (Acts 11:18). After all, how can one believe in someone they haven’t heard of (Romans 10:14)? Just like an invitation is necessary to attend a banquet, through the invitation extended to all sinners, God grants and enables them to respond and come to Him.



Flowers, Leighton. Drawn By Jesus (p. 73). Trinity Academic Press. Kindle Edition.

The calvinist view as seen at Dort

Article 14 Canons of Dort states, “Faith is a gift of God, not in the sense that it is offered by God for man to choose, but that it is in actual fact bestowed on man, breathed and infused into him. Nor is it a gift in the sense that God bestows only the potential to believe, but then awaits assent—the act of believing—from man’s choice; rather, it is a gift in the sense that he who works both willing and acting and, indeed, works all things in all people produces in man both the will to believe and the belief itself.”129



David L. Allen;Steve W Lemke;; Steve W Lemke. Calvinism: A Biblical and Theological Critique (Kindle Locations 867-869). B&H Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

The problem with this


First, there is the problem of describing faith as an infused or transmitted substance. Faith is not analogous to a current of electricity that passes through a conduit and results in a release of mechanical energy. Neither is faith to be likened to water sprinkled upon a seed planted in potted soil. These illustrations of faith confuse the instrument of salvation, faith, with the agent of salvation, the Holy Spirit. It should instead be suggested that faith is a human response, i.e., a Spirit-prompted conviction of the truth of the redemptive merits of Christ.

Second, the concept of infused faith for salvation bears a marked resemblance to the sacramentalism of the Roman Catholic Church. That is to say, faith becomes a transmitted and efficacious element which God gives to men for salvation. Again, it must be emphasized that faith is not a substance, but a human response prompted by the Holy Spirit.

Third, if faith is a gift, then men no longer bear the responsibility to believe the Gospel. The term believe becomes an equivocal expression if regeneration occurs before faith (i.e., the view of those who consider faith to be a gift of God).

Fourth and finally, an infused idea of faith engenders a less-than-balanced view of sanctification, i.e., victory in the spiritual life is viewed as a virtual guarantee. If God gives believers faith to live the Christian life, then the difficult aspects of progressive holiness commanded in Scripture tend to be soft-pedaled.


How those at Phillipi were shown favor


Acts 16:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. 11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis; 12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.



Paul is not saying that their faith was given to them, but that the opportunity to believe was given to them by God's grace as God sent Paul there to present the gospel and plant the church:

Now some problematic issues which arise if faith is a unilateral gift of god

if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.

Myers, J. D.. What is Faith?: How to Know that You Believe (Christian Questions Book 3) (p. 136). Redeeming Press. Kindle Edition.

Why did God harden men so they would not believe?

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Why does Luke say if the heart of these men had not become gross they could have believed?

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

How is it these believed temporarily

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Now


How it can be shown from the Bible that ‘saving faith’ is something ultimately generated by an unregenerated man’s inherent character (i.e. his intellect, his wisdom, and his spirituality).



How about everywhere (Eze 18:30-32; Acts 11:18; 15:9; John 5:40, John 6:53; 6:57; 12:36; 20:31; John 1:12-13; Gal 3: 2,5; 3:26; Eph 1:13; Col 2:12; 2 Cor 3:14-16; 1 Tim 1:16; James 1:8). Not one time in the Bible does regeneration precede faith. Each time the Bible discusses such things, faith precedes regeneration. Remember, it is from an in-born, Image of God, ability/characteristic, not an unregenerated, self-built character.



God does grant us the ability to believe and suffer for His sake. But “granting” or “enabling” faith, or the subsequent suffering that may result, is not the same as “effectually causing it.” Faith comes by hearing the word of God (Rom. 10:11-14), which is sent (or granted) first to the Jew and then the Gentile (Rom. 1:16). In other words, God is enabling faith by bringing the word of faith (His revelation), which is said to go first to Israel and then to “the high-ways and by-ways…the good and bad alike” (see the wedding banquet parable in Matt. 22). Remember, during the time of Paul, the Jews, generally speaking, had grown calloused to God’s revelation, otherwise they might have seen, heard, understood and turned to God, so the apostles took the message of repentance to the Gentiles, who unlike the Jews, “were willing to listen” (see Acts 28:27-28; John 12:39-41; Romans 9-11).



In the New Testament, faith is attributed to individuals rather than God thirty-nine times (Matt 9:2, 22, 29; 15:28; Mark 2:5; 5:34; 10:52; Luke 5:20; 7:50; 8:48; 17:19; 18:42; 22:32; Rom 1:8; 1 Cor 2:5; 15:14, 17; 2 Cor 1:24; 10:15; Eph 1:15; Phil 2:17; Col 1:4; 1 Thess 1:8; 3:2, 5, 6, 7, 10; 2 Thess 1:3; Phlm 6; Heb 10:23; 12:2; Jas 1:3; 2:18; 1 Pet 1:7, 9, 21; 2 Pet 1:5; 1 John 5:4).



Anyone Can Be Saved: A Defense of “Traditional” Southern Baptist Soteriology . Wipf & Stock, an Imprint of Wipf and Stock Publishers. Kindle Edition.

 

[GodsGrace]

I told you, the word "world" in John 3:16 refers to the "world" of Jews. They are the ones who have covenant with God and every messenger of God will address the Hebrew people NOT the unsaved world who have no covenant with God and therefore are outside the grace of God.
But I get it. You've been raised and taught the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation are written to non-Hebrew Gentiles, but you are wrong. And Gentiles need to stop trying to steal another people's inheritance. The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's seed.

The WORLD in John 3:16 refers to the entire population of the earth.

Have you read Romans 9?
Paul is telling the JEWS that God has decided to allow the Gentiles into the fold.

J...the internet is ruining Christianity.
I found this just now.

When are we going to stop following MAN and start to follow JESUS?
Read your bible instead of this nonsense. Paul clearly stated what God has done in
Romans 1:18-20 and in Romans 2 regarding the conscience of man.

How small of a box do you wish to lock God into?
Well J, God ain't going in there because you read some garbage on the net.



GOD IS FOR ALL PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD.


This one spirit of SONSHIP is what Paul spoke about in Galatians.

Galatians 3:26-29
Sons of God

26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As such the Gentiles who had been under the covenant of Noah has been ushered into this New Covenant and became sons of Abraham through the abolishing of the Law. The covenant of Moses.

As such the Gentile is in every way included in the New Covenant. The re-establishment of the Covenant of Righteousness by Faith made between Abraham and God.
source: https://hischarisisenough.wordpress.com/2014/09/21/are-gentiles-included-in-the-new-covenant/

 

[GodsGrace]

@ GodsGrace

Some, not all.

Okay, I'll make one more post, but it will be impossible for it to be that short, but, only one more.

RB....I'm going to give you the answer.

WHAT IS JUSTICE?
In 10 words....

Justice simply means to give to a person what they deserve.

When a judge hands out a sentence,,,,he is giving a person what they deserve.
If he does NOT do this...he is not practicing justice....he is not just.

So the question becomes:
If God is choosing the saved and the damned, based on nothing at all...
is He giving to each person what they deserve?
NO.

He would either have to save everyone...
or damn everyone.

But as we can see, this is not the case.
So there must be a method, a plan, at work.

Can we know that plan?
YES!

It's the reason the NT was written.
It's the reason for Jesus' sacrifice.
It's the reason our God is a JUST God.

Here it is in a nutshell:
John 3:14-18
14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You see, God gives to EACH PERSON the opportunity to become saved.
So....
When God judges us at our death....His judgment will be just....
He will give to each person what they deserve based on the above verses.

Easy when we don't twist scripture.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



Wrong that is all it was, people. Abraham wasn't anything but a person, no ethnicity, that's why his name was changed to Abraham, God made him a Father in the eternal covenant, a Father of many nations. Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Not :
but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many the jews have I made thee.

Salah was the head of a family that was obedient to God.
His son, Eber, is the beginning of the Hebrew people.
Abraham married his half-sister. Two Hebrews having a Hebrew child.
But it was the covenant with Abraham that set him apart from the rest of the Adamites. And circumcision sealed the deal of God's promises to Abraham. All Abe had to do was circumcise his male children and those in his household. Circumcision separated Abraham from the rest of the Adamites. The Adamites had no covenant, nor did they circumcise their male children. WHY?
Because they were not separated unto God and called His people.
God did not want them. He has His Chosen Patriarch, and later, His people. Millions of Hebrews all from one 99-year-old man.
Respect your elders.
God did. God had favor and respect to Abraham and later with his seed, a people called Israel.
When Moses came along this people became a nation with God's Laws favoring them.
God has no covenant with Gentiles. There is nothing in the Hebrew Scripture that records a covenant between God and Gentiles.
None.
And right before Christ returns Israel is in battle for their lives.
Who comes to fight alongside Israel and who finally gets the victory over the Gentile nations trying to wipe Israel off the map?
Jesus Christ.
It's such a bloodbath that Jesus' vesture becomes dripping blood of those He kills with His own hands.
And a word from His mouth, too.
Who does He rule with a rod of iron? Gentiles.
Who does He rule with a shepherd's staff? Israel.
And when all is said and done the only people left standing is Israel. They will get their Promised Land and there will be NO GENTILES living among them. Only twelve tribes of millions of Jews/Hebrews.
And then when "Satan" is loosed from his prison who does he gather together for one final push against Israel. Gentiles.
And then fire from heaven, specifically from the New Jerusalem floating in the atmosphere, falls down from heaven and consumes ALL Gentiles and Israel is safe and sound.
Read Revelation 20.
It does not end well for Gentiles.

 

[Red Baker]

You're asking me "who tempted Christ?"

I did indeed, since you rejected there's such a doctrine of angels who were a higher order of created spirits to be servants of God for his elect, etc., you said:

The "angels" happen to be merely pastors or evangelists. Human. Depending on the location these traveling pastors and evangelists and apostles, teachers, and prophets are in view here:

2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels [messengers] unawares.
Heb. 13:2.

(Red highlight was done by me for discussion) So, you believe, as a few do, that angels in the scriptures are human, correct? It would be hard to deny this since we have your testimony concerning your teaching, of course I'm not saying that you are denying it, but, for the record here is your teaching. So, what do you do with these scriptures?

Psalms 8:5​

“For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.”

Hebrews 2:7​

“Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:”

Hebrews 2:9​

“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”

So, If Jesus was made a little lower than angels, and according to you, angles are humans, what is lower than humans? Your doctrine has some serious holes in your fortress of faith ~ and there's more.

You seem to me to want to personalize "devil" in this passage of Matthew 4:1 but the word is neither a noun nor a personal pronoun. It's an adjective and you do damage to understanding the text in Matthew 4:1. You can't make an adjective into a noun. That's bad hermeneutics and exegetical study. As for me, I don't choose to make an adjective into a noun but receive the text as written. So, let's first locate where "Satan" and the "Devil" are. According to Peter and Jude the angels that sinned are 'locked up.'

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 6.

According to Peter and Jude the angels that sinned, all one-third of angelic beings created by God, are locked up and being held until the day of judgment which is still yet future. Now let's look at Jesus' temptation:

Jeremiah, I'm not going to get into English lesson, for that's not who I am, nor my calling. But, I'm no idiot ~ the word devil is a personal pronoun, not an adjective. The tempter in verse three, is an adjective describing the work of the devil. Beside, forget about personal pronounces, and adjectives, the context is what we consider as children of God, who are for the most part simple folks among the wise of this world. The main consideration here in Matthew 4:1-11 is that the Lord Jesus was tempted of the devil before he started his preaching ministry ~ and after he was tempted, angles came and ministered unto them, not humans!

"As for me, I don't choose to make an adjective into a noun but receive the text as written" ~Then Jeremiah was do you reject the doctrine of angels being spirit and not humans as you claim?

Matthew 4:11​

“Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.”

So plain Jeremiah, that your fortress of faith holes are getting larger, putting you an you doctrine at serious risk of being expose as false.

So, let's first locate where "Satan" and the "Devil" are. According to Peter and Jude the angels that sinned are 'locked up.'

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 6.

According to Peter and Jude the angels that sinned, all one-third of angelic beings created by God, are locked up and being held until the day of judgment which is still yet future

So by you quoting this, I must ask you a question ~ are you saying that you do believe in angels just that they are locked up at the present? If so, then when were they locked up, for they certain were here during the Lord's day on earth and afterwards as well.

Acts 19:15,16​

“And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.”

Jeremiah, you are changing God's word to align with your false doctrine ~ they were not locked up as you call it, but were cast down to hell to delivered them into chain of darkness, there to be reserved until the judgement. I just gave the sense to these scriptures very recently, but will do so again for you.

2 Peter 2:4

"For if God spared not the angles that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto the judgement."

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned" ~ By whom are meant the devil and his angels; who are spirits created by God and as such were good; their first estate which they left was pure and holy, as well as high and honourable; they, were at first in the truth, though they abode not in it; they were once among the morning stars and sons of God, and were angels of light; their numbers are many, and therefore are here expressed in the plural number, "angels", though it cannot be said how large, a number that cannot be counted.

"God spared not"~ Notwithstanding the dignity and excellency of their nature, in strict justice, and awful severity, without any mercy, inflicted due punishment on them; wherefore it cannot be thought that false teachers, who, as they, abide not in the truth, but deny and oppose it, should escape the vengeance of God, for they will not.

"but cast them down to hell" ~In what sense are we to understand the word hell as used by Peter? It cannot be understood as the lake of fire, for that is after the judgment ~ for which they are reserved for...which is to come, as is evident by even the angles themselves:

Matthew 8:29

"And behold they cried out saying, What have we to do with thee Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

They know that there is a day appointed for them to be judge and then cast into the lake of fire, or into the deep, as used by Mark and Luke.

Also, the world is full of evil spirits as is evident by many scriptures in the NT, and in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Hell in this scripture is explain to us by Peter as he said these words:

"and delivered them into chains of darkness"~ When they left their first estate, by sinning, God Almighty delivered them into chains of darkness ~ which means their sins left them under the guilt of sin, which is the power of darkness, and in black despair; shutting them up in unbelief, impenitence, and hardness of mind; being holden with the cords of their sins, and in the most dreadful state of bondage and captivity to their lusts, in just judgment on them; and in the most miserable and uncomfortable condition, being driven from the realms of light, deprived of the face and presence of God, in the utmost horror and trembling, and fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation to consume them; and in utter darkness, without the least glimmering of light, joy, peace, and comfort; and where there is nothing but weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and being also under the restraints of the power and providence of God, and not able to stir or move, or do anything without divine permission; and being likewise, by the everlasting, unalterable, and inscrutable purposes and decrees of God, appointed to everlasting wrath and destruction; by which they are consigned and bound over to it, and held fast, that they cannot escape it! They are there~

"to be reserved unto judgment"~ And judge they shall be! By Jesus Christ and his saints. This is the prison of hell in which they are now suffering under, there waiting for that great day of the wrath of Almighty God. This hell, they will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under. Their final abode will be destruction in the lake of fire and brimstone.

I must stop here but will come back and finish keep from this being too long.

 

[Red Baker]

Now let's look at Jesus' temptation:

1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Matthew 4:1–11.

Looking forward of doing so!

 

[Jim]

See, right here in your writing, Jim, you use "see" to mean "perceive".

In the Word of God, the word "SEEING" specifically corresponds to "PERCEIVE" as is found in "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE'" (Matthew 13:14), and the Hebrew of Isaiah 6:9 proves this absolute "SEEING" with purely "PERCEIVE" relationship wherein a certain person sees the Word of God yet fails to righteously perceive the Word of God because such a one cannot know that which he or she fails to perceive in the absence of the righteous Holy Spirit of God. The Word of God includes "perceive" for the word "see" in the Lord Jesus Christ's blessed saying of "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (John 3:3).

Your assignment of "signifies to partake of the kingdom" at the exclusion of "perceive" for the word "see" in the Lord Jesus Christ's blessed saying of "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God(John 3:3) results in a new non-Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot partake the Kingdom of God" authored by you, Jim (proof post #7,297).

I agree that the word see in John 3:3 means to partake of, to experience, the kingdom of God. My point is that it does not mean, as the Reformed Theology typically says, that the unregenerated cannot even understand or have knowledge of the kingdom of God.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

Salah was the head of a family that was obedient to God.

Still a non jew Gentile

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five


The first three you mentioned I would read, and have~ the other one's you mentioned I never have read hardly any of their writings, and have no desire to do so, or even start.

I'm very busy at the moment, and will respond to this post later, thanks for postings, but much of the contents is what I expected to find. Much of this is what I have read from Mountain Retreat forum .... Tony Warren, do you know him?

I do not. But I just searched and added it to my favorites folder for later and later. Never heard of Warren. Rick, yes. Tony, no.

 

[Red Baker]

I do not. But I just searched and added it to my favorites folder for later and later. Never heard of Warren. Rick, yes. Tony, no.

@jeremiah1five

I would never read one article from Rick Warren that false prophet ~That's Barack Obama's man.

Tony Warren is a very private person, younger than me, just do not know how much younger We have exchanged a few emails, but not many, since he's private, or he chooses to not to be known. He's very gifted in forming his debates. He's black, which which you very seldom find a black man gifted as he is in the scriptures, they are very rare..... Men like J.D. Jakes does not qualify with a gift of knowledge of the scriptures, but is very gifted in speaking to people to win them over and to entertain while doing doing so, which is what most want anymore., so they deserve to be deceive by men like him ~ out to entertain their followers.

We (Mr. Warren) differ on a few subjects, but I still enjoy reading much what he has to say on other subjects.

 

[Kermos]

Your RELIGION makes false statements about God.

Christians follow Christ.
Calvinists follow John Calvin.

I quote and believe “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (The Word of God, John 3:21), and you replied "Your RELIGION makes false statements about God", and Lord Jesus Christ says "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God" (John 8:47).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Self-will or image of Christ will​

These 16 parts integrally contribute to one full composition. A response to post #6,699.
Part 1 of 16: Illegitimate Isolation
Part 2 of 16: Self-exaltation
Part 3 of 16: Unity Prayer (Acts 4:24)
Part 4 of 16: CHOOSE, ABLE, list
Part 5 of 16: God creates all
Part 6 of 16: Matthew 11 examined
Part 7 of 16: Free-willian NT Conflict
Part 8 of 16: John 3 16/Matthew 11:25
Part 9 of 16: Free-willian Self-savior
Part 10 of 16: Faith, the gift of God
Part 11 of 16: Free-willian are self-willed
Part 12 of 16: The Potter and the clay
Part 13 of 16: the problem here
Part 14 of 16: you confuse Calvin for Christ
Part 15 of 16: Christ controls Christians
Part 16 of 16: Christians hear Christ

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! THE LORD BE MAGNIFIED!!!

 

[synergy]

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Matt 15:9 says nothing about will, let alone free will.

(Matt 15:9) And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

So that you will not be accused of the exact same thing that Matt 15:9 is warning against, please forward at least one verse that explicitly says that "free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain". We wouldn't want to label you a hypocrite, right?

 

[jeremiah1five]

The WORLD in John 3:16 refers to the entire population of the earth.

Yeah, that's how it would read to English-speaking people. But that's how it reads to English-speaking people when you ignore the audience to whom the Scripture - Old and New - was written to and they were written to those in covenant with God: Israel.
If it was meant to everyone then John and other authors would have said "everyone" in the text. But there is only one Greek word that exists that refers to "everyone" and that is the word "everyone."
When you fully understand the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture is written to and for the Hebrew people by Hebrew people then it's not hard to extend that to the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation.

Is there any doubt the Law (Pentateuch) was written to and for the Hebrews? Oh, sure, when you see those Scripture "books" were originally written in Hebrew. Same with the Psalms and the Prophets. But the New Covenant writings were written in Greek and so it's assumed outright they must've been written to non-Hebrews since Greek is the language of the Greek people, specifically, Alex the Great, of whom these Roman cities (Corinth, Ephesus, Philippi, etc.), are Roman provinces, so sure, those New Covenant writing must be written to the Greek people. But what about the French? Or the Slavic people? Or the Huns? But to be fair I also was among the millions of English-speaking people that think and believe the New Covenant writings were meant to and for the non-Hebrew people (Gentiles.) Would you still think the New Covenant writings were written to non-Hebrew Gentiles if they were in Hebrew? Why was the Old Testament written in Greek? Mainly, for the Hellenized, mixed cultured Hebrews who may have stopped reading and writing in Hebrew due to the Diaspora of the 8th and 6th centuries BC. No doubt the generation and their children who were conquered and Exiled to Assyria would have spoken Hebrew, but how long do you think that would have lasted? From the Assyrian conquest and Exile to when Jesus of Nazareth appeared was about 25-30 generations of Hebrews that were born in Assyria and in other Gentile lands in-between. How far and deeply would Hebrews have maintained their culture growing up generation after generation for 25-30 generations that Hebrews would have grown up in this situation? But everything is not as it seems on the face of it.

Have you read Romans 9?
Paul is telling the JEWS that God has decided to allow the Gentiles into the fold.

J...the internet is ruining Christianity.
I found this just now.

When are we going to stop following MAN and start to follow JESUS?
Read your bible instead of this nonsense. Paul clearly stated what God has done in
Romans 1:18-20 and in Romans 2 regarding the conscience of man.

How small of a box do you wish to lock God into?
Well J, God ain't going in there because you read some garbage on the net.



GOD IS FOR ALL PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD.


This one spirit of SONSHIP is what Paul spoke about in Galatians.

Galatians 3:26-29
Sons of God

26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As such the Gentiles who had been under the covenant of Noah has been ushered into this New Covenant and became sons of Abraham through the abolishing of the Law. The covenant of Moses.

As such the Gentile is in every way included in the New Covenant. The re-establishment of the Covenant of Righteousness by Faith made between Abraham and God.
source: https://hischarisisenough.wordpress.com/2014/09/21/are-gentiles-included-in-the-new-covenant/

Take an honest and closer look at to whom the Galatian letter was written to, especially Galatians 3:23-29.
These sentences were to address those Jews who became born-again and were now disciples of Jesus. They were concerned with whether or not they were still belonging to Abraham's seed now that they were followers of Jesus. And for Jews who were disciples of any of their favorite Hebrew elders or religious leaders they only had one teacher, unlike today where one can be a Christ-follower but still learn from writings of Calvin, Martin Luther, Charles Hodge, John Edwards, etc. To these Jewish Christians in the first century AD they were seriously concerned whether their being Jesus followers/disciples' affected their standing under their heirship under the Abraham Covenant and those promises to Abraham (and his seed.)

23 But before faith came, we [JEWS] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [JEWS] schoolmaster to bring us [JEWS] unto Christ, that we [JEWS] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [JEWS] are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye [JEWS] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [JEWS] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek [HELLENIZED MIXED HERITAGE HEBREWS] there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [JEWS] are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [JEWS] be Christ’s, then are ye [STILL JEWS AND] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal. 3:23–29.

Were Gentiles ever under the schoolmaster (the Law)?
No, so why do you insert non-Hebrew Gentiles into the text?
Saul is addressing those Jews who became Jesus' disciples and concerned whether they were still Abraham's seed and heirs according to THOSE promises. Israel had entered Jeremiah's New Covenant era. There was no doctrine or written guidance to the Jew now that this Jesus came on the scene and the Holy Spirit of Promise was making His Presence felt and seen among all Jewry. The question Saul appears to be answering by these Jews who became Jesus' disciple was a valid one. But there was no instruction, no guidance, all they had was Jeremiah 31:31-34 and those verses didn't answer many specific questions.

If the New Testament writings had been preserved and disseminated solely in Hebrew, it would have fundamentally altered their reception. Non-Hebrew Gentiles, lacking fluency in the language and familiarity with Jewish scriptures and traditions, would have found the message significantly less accessible. The very nature of the messianic claims, rooted in Hebrew prophecy and covenantal theology, would have been obscured. The concept of a Messiah was deeply embedded in Jewish religious thought. The New Testament writers drew heavily on Hebrew scriptures to demonstrate Jesus's fulfillment of messianic prophecies. Without this linguistic and cultural context, non-Hebrew Gentiles would have struggled to grasp the significance of Jesus's role. Even with translation, nuances of meaning and cultural references are often lost. A Hebrew New Testament would have presented a formidable barrier to non-Hebrew Gentiles, requiring extensive interpretation and explanation. The Greek language allowed for a much wider understanding of the New Covenant writings, especially where Greek-speaking Hellenized Hebrews of mixed heritage were concerned. Maintaining the Jewish roots of Christianity while reaching out to mixed heritage Hebrews of Gentile upbringing was a delicate balancing act. Many Jews didn't accept mixed heritage Jew-Gentile offspring as Jews and all one had to do was remember the Jews attitude towards Samaritans who were mixed heritage of the Assyrian conflict with the northern kingdom tribes.

In essence, highlighting the fact that a Hebrew New Testament would have likely remained within a primarily Jewish context, and the widespread mixed heritage Hebrew adoption of Christianity was largely enabled by the use of the Greek language.

 

[Johann]

Matt 15:9 says nothing about will, let alone free will.

(Matt 15:9) And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

So that you will not be accused of the exact same thing that Matt 15:9 is warning against, please forward at least one verse that explicitly says that "free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain". We wouldn't want to label you a hypocrite, right?

He is not willing to discuss anything brother.

J.

 

[synergy]

He is not willing to discuss anything brother.

J.

He's been caught lying and he's been caught misquoting people. The god that he says controls him is evidently a pagan sinful god. That's critical deductive thinking right there.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



Still a non jew Gentile

There was no such thing as a Gentile. The world was divided into two groups: the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

Salah was of the obedient seed of a woman for he actively separated himself and his family from the rest of the disobedient Adamites. He crossed over (either the Jordan or the Euphrates) and the river was a physical divider of his family from the seed of the serpent. He commemorated the "crossing over" the physical barrier of the river and named his son Eber which means "crossed over." Back then, names of children were specific and spoke of something of significance. Consider the naming of the twelve sons of Jacob. Remember the name of Isaac which means laughter? Sarah laughed when told she would give birth (she was 90 years old.) She thought it impossible. The names of things meant a great deal to these people. Even the Name "Yeshua" (Jesus) which means "the Lord's salvation." Or Immanuel which means...

Gentile in time came to mean "non-Hebrew/Jew." And it didn't mean that until there was first a Jew and THEN it came to mean Gentile (non-Jew.)

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

There was no such thing as a Gentile.

Thats all it was Acts 17:26

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

 

[Red Baker]

Yeah, that's how it would read to English-speaking people. But that's how it reads to English-speaking people when you ignore the audience to whom the Scripture - Old and New - was written to and they were written to those in covenant with God: Israel.
If it was meant to everyone then John and other authors would have said "everyone" in the text. But there is only one Greek word that exists that refers to "everyone" and that is the word "everyone." When you fully understand the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture is written to and for the Hebrew people by Hebrew people then it's not hard to extend that to the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation.

@jeremiah1five @GodsGrace

Jeremiah that's being dishonest with the scriptures, but you are not alone in trying to make the scriptures limited in their scope and application, in order to support one's biased doctrine, that they have come to embraced. Why not stop corrupting scriptures in this manner, and used the biblical method of hermeneutic to reveal the true biblical sense of the speaker words, which in this case would be the Lord form heaven. Biblical hermeneutics is:

Isaiah 28:9,10​

“Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:”

Isaiah 28:13​

“But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.”
Here a little and there a little until the spiritual puzzle comes together with scriptures flowing from one to another showing us the TRUTH of any particular doctrine that may be under consideration ~ this biblical method works every time.

Jesus is speaking to a Jew named Nicodemus, one of their leader. In John 3:16 we have a biblical declaration of a truth that is in the word of God.

First, he that believes in the Jesus Christ shall never perish, but will have everlasting life. Even though everlasting life is a present possession of the believer, but the reality is yet in the future.

Secondly, Jesus is revealing to Nicodemus that God's love is not limited the the Jews only, but also to the Gentiles! The world in John 3:16 is all without distinction, not all without exception, for God does make exceptions!

World equals Jews and Gentiles. Consider:

Romans 3:29​

“Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:”

Romans 9:24​

“Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”

You both are wrong, the scriptures settled the argument.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

There was no such thing as a Gentile. The world was divided into two groups: the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

Could you please give me your understanding on this passage? Rom2:26-29

26 ;Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.