An Article on free will

[Red Baker]

Oh for goodness sake RB.
The above is speaking to THE APOSTLES.

@GodsGrace

Actually, it is the Lord's prayer to his Father. The contents of this prayer is by no means limited to the apostles, which can easily be proven. One of the marks of a false doctrine is that men who hold to a false teaching uses such means as you are now employing, by saying certain portion of scriptures was written to a particular church, group of people, or during a particular time frame, etc. By the time some are finished, we truly have a very small portion that is truly for us in our day in which we are living. We accept all scriptures are profitable and appliable for us.

1 Corinthians 10:11​

“Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.”

You folks are just as guilty Jedudi when he penknife sections of the word from the prophet Jeremiah that he did not like and end up just casting the rolls into the fire, but God sent the same words to them again and added more than he did the first time, much like he said he would do to any person who are guilty of adding or taking away from the scriptures.

Jeremiah 36:23​

“And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.”

Jeremiah 36:32​

“Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.”

Revelation 22:18,19​

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

Please read some commentaries that are not calvinist.
PLEASE stop posting this verse.

It just shows how ignorant of scripture calvinists are.

I really use little quote from men, but do at times, much more so when I was younger and inexperience. But, I can assure you that the old divines were far from being ignorant, it truly amazes me how much scriptures they had to memory, since back then, there was no concordance, yet they had so many scriptures at there finger tips it seemed...........enough small talk.

 

[Red Baker]

@ GodsGrace

It looks like a copy and paste to me.

Some, not all.

PLEASE ANSWER THIS in 10 words or less:

WHAT IS JUSTICE?
WHAT IS JUST?

Okay, I'll make one more post, but it will be impossible for it to be that short, but, only one more.

 

[Red Baker]

Salvation (eternal life) is the gift not faith

@TomL

Really, Tom?

Philippians 1:29​

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five
Still was a Gentile. Like a Chinaman was still a Gentile There was no jewish nation at that time.

There were no Gentiles either. There were only Adamites. Gentiles (non-Hebrew) came later. Any "Jewish nation" that existed was in his loins, just as Levi paid tithes to Melchisedec while in Abraham's loins.

When God admitted Abraham into the blessings of the everlasting Covenant confirmed with Christ, he was a Gentile Idolator a chaldean. He was Justified by Faith as a non jew, Gentile Paul pointed that out here Rom 4:6-12

No, Scripture in Genesis 14:13 has God identifying Abram as a Hebrew from the family of Eber.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 ;Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

God made no covenant with the physical descendants of Abraham, not one, but to his spiritual descendants who were given the same Faith he was given, who had been chosen in Christ before the foundation.

God made no covenant with the physical descendants of Abraham???

Well, let's see what Scripture says to that comment.

Here's a covenant God makes with Isaac:

1 And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Genesis 26:1–5.

And God made covenant with Jacob:

10 And Jacob went out from Beer-sheba, and went toward Haran.
11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
Genesis 28:10–16.

These passages sure do look like God IS making covenant with Abraham's descendants.

So, you're WRONG again.

 

[Jim]

Look at your free-will eliminating the applicability to people beyond Paul of the entirety of Holy Spirit inspired Paul's writing of 1 Corinthians 2 with your "That entire chapter is Paul's declaration and defense of his own divinely inspired revelation and teaching".

I see that you do not understand a lot of God's word very well at all.

 

[Red Baker]

@jeremiah1five

Jeremiah, I'm very familiar concerning your corrupt, and lying doctrine and have debated in the past on another forum. So, you just deny scriptures, not one, two, or three scriptures, but every scriptures where angles are mentioned, and you also must reject Satan. I know Satan to you is the sinful corrupt nature of man, correct? Generally those that reject angels as ministering spirits, also reject their leader, the old serpent. So, I have one question for you: Who tempted Christ, surely not his sinful nature, since he was free of sin.

Matthew 4:1​

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”

Jeremiah, Who is this?

I have so much more but enough, keep from hijacking this thread. But would love to discuss this at length. But, at moment I need to get back to the other thread we are on, maybe very soon. https://berean-apologetics.communit...f-the-promises-of-god.2412/page-2#post-153321

@jeremiah1five

I'm patiently waiting for you to answer this post.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five

Jeremiah, I'm very familiar concerning your corrupt, and lying doctrine and have debated in the past on another forum. So, you just deny scriptures, not one, two, or three scriptures, but every scriptures where angles are mentioned, and you also must reject Satan. I know Satan to you is the sinful corrupt nature of man, correct? Generally those that reject angels as ministering spirits, also reject their leader, the old serpent. So, I have one question for you: Who tempted Christ, surely not his sinful nature, since he was free of sin.

Matthew 4:1​

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”

Jeremiah, Who is this?

I have so much more but enough, keep from hijacking this thread. But would love to discuss this at length. But, at moment I need to get back to the other thread we are on, maybe very soon. https://berean-apologetics.communit...f-the-promises-of-god.2412/page-2#post-153321

Oh, I'M HIJACKING this thread? And what forum is that?

Anyone who says wrong things about the One True God I will come with Scripture to correct the lies.

You're asking me "who tempted Christ?"

Well, let's look at the text and shine the light of Scripture upon your question with the Word of God. But first let me lay the foundation which will go a long way to answering your question to me.
I read all the Gentile theology books and commentators from most all popular theologians. Charles Hodge, Edwards, Martin Luther, Vos, Grudem, even some contemporary authors of today and recent history. Piper, the antichrist, MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, Chuckie Smith, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Barth, Mark Deaver, and many others.

You seem to me to want to personalize "devil" in this passage of Matthew 4:1 but the word is neither a noun nor a personal pronoun. It's an adjective and you do damage to understanding the text in Matthew 4:1. You can't make an adjective into a noun. That's bad hermeneutics and exegetical study. As for me, I don't choose to make an adjective into a noun but receive the text as written. So, let's first locate where "Satan" and the "Devil" are. According to Peter and Jude the angels that sinned are 'locked up.'

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 6.

According to Peter and Jude the angels that sinned, all one-third of angelic beings created by God, are locked up and being held until the day of judgment which is still yet future. Now let's look at Jesus' temptation:

1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Matthew 4:1–11.

"devil" [Strong's #1228] from [G#1225] (diaballo); a traducer

Q: What's a traducer?
A: One who attacks the reputation of another by slander or libel

Jesus referred to one of His disciples as a "devil" or "traducer."

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
John 6:70–71.

Jesus called Judas a "traducer" (One who attacks the reputation of another by slander or libel.)

Judas did this very soon after Jesus said these words and to me it got played out when Judas went to the chief priests offering to tell the religious leaders where Jesus took His disciples to get away from the crowds and multitudes for some R&R. No one knew where this was except the twelve. The religious leaders tried to get this info from the people, but the people didn't know where Jesus kicked it with His disciples.

The priests knew Judas was a disciple of Jesus. Yet, here he comes asking how much they would give him to show where Jesus hung out. Try to imagine it. Judas out of the blue approaching the priests asking how much. I'm sure the priests thought to themselves if Jesus was hatching His own plan to "catch" the high priest and the elders. They were shrewd, they weren't going to open their purse to Judas. This was a disciple of Jesus. But the negotiation took a turn when Judas in order to convince the priests began to besmirch Jesus' character and reputation by slandering Him, telling lies. Judas became a traducer. Now, Jesus was a rabbi. If anything, Jesus' teaching was identical to the Pharisees teaching like on "angels" "marriage" the "resurrection" etc., but Jesus was a rabbi and the issues between the religious leaders and Jesus was Jesus taught the "spirit of the Law," and the religious leaders only knew the "letter of the Law" absent the Spirit. Once Judas began to speak ill of his rabbi their attitude changed. Judas was in effect, bearing false witness against Jesus, a crime under the penalty of "lex talionis" (the law of retaliation.) According to the Law of Moses, specifically within the book of Deuteronomy, the penalty for false witness was designed to mirror the punishment that the false witness intended to inflict upon the accused. To the religious leaders they planned to kill Jesus and with this in mind they took Judas' slander more seriously because the religious leaders wanted to kill Jesus. Therefore, if the false witness's testimony would have resulted in the accused's death, the false witness would face the death penalty. Keep this in mind. Life for life.
That's what Jesus meant in calling "one of you is a devil/traducer."

Here we are some 2000 years removed from when Jesus walked the earth. During this time as the New Covenant era began with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise many doctrines from Scripture came to light, one of those doctrines is the teaching of the "hupostasis" or Hypostatic Union, the teaching of Jesus Christ, fully God, fully man. Jesus the man, and Christ the Spirit ("Anointing.") Jesus [the] Christ/Messiah.
So, why the temptation? Let's look at the temptation itself.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:16.

and

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, Genesis 3:6.

The temptation unfolded in these three things.

#1.) And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. Matthew 4:2.

#2.) 5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Matthew 4:5–7.

#3.) 8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:8–10.

So, what's being tempted? I'd say the human part of the hypostatic union.
His flesh (hungry),
Lust of the eyes (pinnacle of the Temple. He used the stairs.)
Pride of life (kingdoms of the world/fall down and worship me.)

You see, there is only one method of temptation and James identifies it:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

"lust" [Strong's #1939] ἐπιθυμία epithymia from [G#1937] (epithumeo); a longing (especially for what is forbidden)

This is not a negative "lust/longing."
Jesus was hungry. He knew who He was, and He knew what belonged to Him and what He was to inherit from God. Jesus' temptation, as in all temptation, occurs when one is drawn away of His own longing/lust and enticed. But Jesus wasn't enticed. He had complete control over His human faculties and functions. He submitted Himself to God through exercise of the Scripture in each of His temptations for each temptation was targeted to each of the three things that occur to man - even born-again men - "the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life."

Jesus' temptation, as in ALL temptations, come from within, not from without. Jesus' human side of Him was being tested.

The angels that sinned are locked up. No one can say "the devil/Satan/Lucifer made me do it."
Man has a fallen, sinful nature. There are no angels that sinned in the world today making people sin. Such teaching of Ol' Slew-foot in the world today guiding the nations or individuals to sin is incorrect. Man's own sinful nature, the nature he was created with and passed on to their progeny is what's going on. Ol' Slew-foot and the angels that sinned are all locked up until judgment day and mankind are quite capable of sinning on their own and very good at it. Jesus, as well as all mankind, are drawn away "of their own lust/longing" and enticed. There is only one way men are tempted and Jesus falls in that group along with the rest of us. But Jesus' human side was without sin and there was no chord in Him to strike for it says, "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me." John 14:30.
Jesus and we are/were tempted in the same way. From within.

By the way, Judas repented, confessed his deed, and the priests said, "what is that to us? See thou to that."
What the religious leaders should have done was take Judas outside the city and stone him. But they told him "You handle it."
He did. He went out and killed himself. Life for life. In obedience to the Law of Retribution.
Judas is with Jesus.

 

[Kermos]

I see that you do not understand a lot of God's word very well at all.

See, right here in your writing, Jim, you use "see" to mean "perceive".

In the Word of God, the word "SEEING" specifically corresponds to "PERCEIVE" as is found in "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE'" (Matthew 13:14), and the Hebrew of Isaiah 6:9 proves this absolute "SEEING" with purely "PERCEIVE" relationship wherein a certain person sees the Word of God yet fails to righteously perceive the Word of God because such a one cannot know that which he or she fails to perceive in the absence of the righteous Holy Spirit of God. The Word of God includes "perceive" for the word "see" in the Lord Jesus Christ's blessed saying of "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (John 3:3).

Your assignment of "signifies to partake of the kingdom" at the exclusion of "perceive" for the word "see" in the Lord Jesus Christ's blessed saying of "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God(John 3:3) results in a new non-Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot partake the Kingdom of God" authored by you, Jim (proof post #7,297).

 

[MTMattie]

You are treating faith like a club membership—only available to those who already possess it. But the biblical analogy is clear: faith is like a spark that spreads when the gospel is preached. It does not require a person to be already believing to ignite.

Thanks.

J.

Beautifully stated. Thank you.

 

[jeremiah1five]

While I agree Adam was of the earth, earthly, yet he was created in God's image with spiritual wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, which he lost when he sinned. How do we know that he was created in God's image with these spiritual gifts? Because in the new birth, these are part of the new man which is created after the image of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:24​

“And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

Colossians 3:10​

“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”

Scripture says Adam was natural, of the earth, earthy, and you want to add spirituality to his creative make up.
Adam did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in him, over him, beside him, or under him. He was not born-again, nor was he saved.

Ephesians 4:24 refers to the NEW man, not the old man. The NEW man is created by God a NEW human spirit in him so that he may process and understand through Scripture and use spiritual phenomenon, such as God who IS Spirit, to acknowledge and appreciate and use any spiritual gifts given him through the NEW birth in Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Colossians 3:10 refers to the NEW man who is born-again by the Spirit, he/she who comes to the knowledge of the truth IN CHRIST - not before - AFTER he is born-again of the Spirit. This "knowledge" is an intimate intercourse with the Spirit of God.

AND when we are born-again, we are being sanctified and conformed daily into the image of Christ, we, who were once born into this world in the image of Adam have NOW "put on Christ" (Anointing.)

Adam was NOT created in the image of God. His was the image of the natural earth, of dust, WHICH is his image - OF THE EARTH, earthy.
There is nothing spiritual about Adam. The natural man has nothing in common with the Spirit of God. Nothing!
Make distinction.
Saul does.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I am FREE........................

Are you also free ?

@jeremiah1five @brightfame52 @Red Baker @civic @Johann @TomL @synergy @MTMattie @Jim

As with everything in Christ, if one is not called to music, they have no business making music for the body of Christ, no matter how "Christianly" the words are or just because they know how to read a scale or play a guitar or any other instrument.
Sorry, this music does nothing for me. Biblical music is supposed to move you, not PUSH you.
Just more deception and delusion and arrogance.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I'm sure Pink explained the world really well.

But I'm not here to talk to Pink.

I asked YOU what two particular verses meant and you reply with Pink.

If you can't reply to a question on your own, it means you don't KNOW the answer or
you don't UNDERSTAND what the answer should be.

I told you, the word "world" in John 3:16 refers to the "world" of Jews. They are the ones who have covenant with God and every messenger of God will address the Hebrew people NOT the unsaved world who have no covenant with God and therefore are outside the grace of God.
But I get it. You've been raised and taught the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation are written to non-Hebrew Gentiles, but you are wrong. And Gentiles need to stop trying to steal another people's inheritance. The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's seed.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

There were no Gentiles either.

Wrong that is all it was, people. Abraham wasn't anything but a person, no ethnicity, that's why his name was changed to Abraham, God made him a Father in the eternal covenant, a Father of many nations. Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Not :
but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many the jews have I made thee.

 

[ProDeo]

I'll pass ~ I refuse to accept that type of music as godly music that is glorifying to the Lord. Besides, I do not follow a long hair effeminate person claiming to look like Jesus Christ, I'm no friend of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their kinfolks.......... LGBTQIA++++++++

Aside from the artwork done by someone not from the band what's wrong with the text of the song based on John 8:36?

Verse 1]
Through You, the blind will see
Through You, the mute will sing
Through You, the dead will rise
Through You, all hearts will praise
Through You, the darkness flees
Through You, my heart screams
I am free
Yes, I am free

[Chorus]
And I am free to run (I am free to run)
I am free to dance (I am free to dance)
I am free to live for You (I am free to live for You)
I am free (I am free)
Yes, I am free (I am free)

[Verse 2]
Through You, the kingdom comes
Through You, the battle's won
Through You, I'm not afraid
Through You, the price is paid
Through You, there's victory
Because of You, my heart sings
I am free
Yes, I am free

[Chorus]
And I am free to run (I am free to run)
And I am free to dance (I am free to dance)
And I am free to live for You (I am free to live for You)
I am free (I am free)
Yes, I am free (I am free)

[Bridge]
Who the Son sets free is free indeed (Who the Son sets free)
Who the Son sets free is free indeed (Who the Son sets free)
(I am, I am, I am, I am)

[Chorus]
I am free to run (I am free to run)
I am free to dance (I am free to dance)
And I am free to live for You (I am free to live for You)
I am free (I am free)
Yes, I am free (I am free)

 

[Kermos]

Salvation (eternal life) is the gift not faith


Romans 6:23 (LEB) — 23 For the compensation due sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


And that not of yourselves. That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered that—τοῦτο—is in the neuter gender, and the word faith—πίστις—is in the feminine. The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to the salvation by grace of which he had been speaking. This is the interpretation of the passage which is the most obvious, and which is now generally conceded to be the true one; see Bloomfield1


1 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Ephesians, Philippians & Colossians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 42.


But they commonly misintepret this text, and restrict the word ‘gift’ to faith alone. But Paul is only repeating his earlier statement in other words. He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God … " (from, Calvin’s Commentaries 4:145


For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.

I believe my Leader Jesus “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake” (Philippians 1:29).

Regarding blessed in the Spirit Paul's "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8), you quoted support for your free-will belief "Salvation (eternal life) is the gift not faith" as founded upon your leader Calvin's words being "But Paul is only repeating his earlier statement in other words. He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God".

Please note, Romans 6:23 does not exclude grace nor faith as the gift of God.

Your grammatical error resides in "And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part" where you (1) indiscriminately eliminate the feminine noun faith while retaining the feminine noun grace, (2) unilaterally associated the most distant word grace while disassociating the nearest word faith in relation to the word that, and (3) use illegal Greek grammar to bind the word that to the verb saved at the exclusion of the noun faith. The following delves into the legal Greek grammar.

The True Grammar of Ephesians 2:8-10​

The Apostle Paul wrote:

​

"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).​

​

In Ephesians chapter 2, Paul introduces the development for the concept of "by grace you have been saved" in Ephesians 2:5, then Paul proceeded through the intervening verses to the fully developed big reveal of "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" in Ephesians 2:8.

Paul expanded on what he started to talk about in Ephesians 2:5; moreover, in Ephesians 2:8, Paul makes it Spiritually and grammatically clear that faith is inextricably included in the "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".

The Greek grammar of Ephesians 2:8 is multi-faceted, so let's look at these ten words, at constructs such as Greek language case/gender/number which establish communication, so here they are:

• grace - noun - dative/feminine/singular
• you is exclusively the subject in (Ephesians 2:8), and "you" is derived from the second person and plural count of the inflection of the verb "are".
• are - verb - is a present, indicative, active verb in the second person and plural count
• saved - verb - nominative/masculine/plural
• faith - noun - genitive/feminine/singular
• and - conjunction
• that - demonstrative pronoun - nominative/neuter/singular
• yourselves - personal pronoun - genitive in the second person with plural count.
• God - noun - genitive/masculine/singular
• gift - noun - nominative/neuter/singular

Since both "you" and "yourselves" are second person and plural count, then the word "yourselves" refers specifically to the complete sentence subject of "you"; therefore, the word "that" arbitrates the thing that is "not of yourselves" as well as "the gift of God".

A noun is the subject of a sentence, and a verb is an action by or on the subject of the sentence; moreover, a verb is not the subject of a sentence, and this is fundamental grammar.

A nuance of inflective languages is that a sentence's verb can concretely indicate the sentence's subject noun without including the specific word for the noun in the sentence. Both Greek and Spanish are examples of such inflective languages.

In Ephesians 2:8, the Greek verb ἐστε (Strong’s 1510 – εἰμί – eimi – am, are, is) translates to the English verb "are", and we know ἐστε equals “are” because of the inflection of ἐστε which is both second person, "you", and this "you" is plural; therefore, the Greek verb ἐστε (are) implicitly indicates the sentence’s subject noun “you” for this sentence:

​

For by grace you are saved through faith​

(Ephesians 2:8)​

​

The English word "you" is concretely the subject.

As is clearly evident in Ephesians 2:8, Paul utilized no full grammatical inflective agreement between the words, for example, he did not precisely tie objects back to the subject using case/number/gender agreement.

There is a principle in Greek grammar which dictates that in the absence of full inflective agreement, then the word order in the sentence becomes paramount, so the word order in Ephesians 2:8 dictates relationship between the words.

Essentially, this principle of Greek grammar word order antecedent placement results in the fact that the phrase "faith and that not of yourselves" is specifically stating that faith is not of man while at the same time specifically stating faith is truly the work of God because of "it is the gift of God".

As a minimum basis, the word order principle plays a role in the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8.

There is more to the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8, such as "God" and "faith" are the only genitive and singular two words in Ephesians 2:8, and both of these words have an antecedent that is neuter, and a neuter can be an antecedent to both masculine words and feminine words, so this grammatical structure binds the words "God" and "faith" together in Ephesians 2:8, and yet there is more to the grammatical structure such that the following is entirely Truth (John 14:6).

We have 3 clauses in Ephesians 2:8:

• by grace you are saved through faith
• and that not of yourselves
• it is the gift of God

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "not of yourselves".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "the gift of God".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is composed of the constituent parts of "grace" and "saved" and "faith".

When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of

• grace is not a work of man while being the work of God.
• saved is not a work of man while being the work of God.
• faith is not a work of man while being the work of God.

in Paul's writing of

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".

In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes it clear that the work of faith is not a work of man, yet the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 clearly state that faith is the work of God because we are his work (Ephesians 2:10).

The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE SOVEREIGN LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[brightfame52]

I believe my Leader Jesus “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake” (Philippians 1:29).

Regarding blessed in the Spirit Paul's "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8), you quoted support for your free-will belief "Salvation (eternal life) is the gift not faith" as founded upon your leader Calvin's words being "But Paul is only repeating his earlier statement in other words. He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God".

Please note, Romans 6:23 does not exclude grace nor faith as the gift of God.

Your grammatical error resides in "And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part" where you (1) indiscriminately eliminate the feminine noun faith while retaining the feminine noun grace, (2) unilaterally associated the most distant word grace while disassociating the nearest word faith in relation to the word that, and (3) use illegal Greek grammar to bind the word that to the verb saved at the exclusion of the noun faith. The following delves into the legal Greek grammar.

The True Grammar of Ephesians 2:8-10​

The Apostle Paul wrote:

​

"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).​

​

In Ephesians chapter 2, Paul introduces the development for the concept of "by grace you have been saved" in Ephesians 2:5, then Paul proceeded through the intervening verses to the fully developed big reveal of "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" in Ephesians 2:8.

Paul expanded on what he started to talk about in Ephesians 2:5; moreover, in Ephesians 2:8, Paul makes it Spiritually and grammatically clear that faith is inextricably included in the "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".

The Greek grammar of Ephesians 2:8 is multi-faceted, so let's look at these ten words, at constructs such as Greek language case/gender/number which establish communication, so here they are:

• grace - noun - dative/feminine/singular
• you is exclusively the subject in (Ephesians 2:8), and "you" is derived from the second person and plural count of the inflection of the verb "are".
• are - verb - is a present, indicative, active verb in the second person and plural count
• saved - verb - nominative/masculine/plural
• faith - noun - genitive/feminine/singular
• and - conjunction
• that - demonstrative pronoun - nominative/neuter/singular
• yourselves - personal pronoun - genitive in the second person with plural count.
• God - noun - genitive/masculine/singular
• gift - noun - nominative/neuter/singular

Since both "you" and "yourselves" are second person and plural count, then the word "yourselves" refers specifically to the complete sentence subject of "you"; therefore, the word "that" arbitrates the thing that is "not of yourselves" as well as "the gift of God".

A noun is the subject of a sentence, and a verb is an action by or on the subject of the sentence; moreover, a verb is not the subject of a sentence, and this is fundamental grammar.

A nuance of inflective languages is that a sentence's verb can concretely indicate the sentence's subject noun without including the specific word for the noun in the sentence. Both Greek and Spanish are examples of such inflective languages.

In Ephesians 2:8, the Greek verb ἐστε (Strong’s 1510 – εἰμί – eimi – am, are, is) translates to the English verb "are", and we know ἐστε equals “are” because of the inflection of ἐστε which is both second person, "you", and this "you" is plural; therefore, the Greek verb ἐστε (are) implicitly indicates the sentence’s subject noun “you” for this sentence:

​

For by grace you are saved through faith​

(Ephesians 2:8)​

​

The English word "you" is concretely the subject.

As is clearly evident in Ephesians 2:8, Paul utilized no full grammatical inflective agreement between the words, for example, he did not precisely tie objects back to the subject using case/number/gender agreement.

There is a principle in Greek grammar which dictates that in the absence of full inflective agreement, then the word order in the sentence becomes paramount, so the word order in Ephesians 2:8 dictates relationship between the words.

Essentially, this principle of Greek grammar word order antecedent placement results in the fact that the phrase "faith and that not of yourselves" is specifically stating that faith is not of man while at the same time specifically stating faith is truly the work of God because of "it is the gift of God".

As a minimum basis, the word order principle plays a role in the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8.

There is more to the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8, such as "God" and "faith" are the only genitive and singular two words in Ephesians 2:8, and both of these words have an antecedent that is neuter, and a neuter can be an antecedent to both masculine words and feminine words, so this grammatical structure binds the words "God" and "faith" together in Ephesians 2:8, and yet there is more to the grammatical structure such that the following is entirely Truth (John 14:6).

We have 3 clauses in Ephesians 2:8:

• by grace you are saved through faith
• and that not of yourselves
• it is the gift of God

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "not of yourselves".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "the gift of God".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is composed of the constituent parts of "grace" and "saved" and "faith".

When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of

• grace is not a work of man while being the work of God.
• saved is not a work of man while being the work of God.
• faith is not a work of man while being the work of God.

in Paul's writing of

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".

In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes it clear that the work of faith is not a work of man, yet the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 clearly state that faith is the work of God because we are his work (Ephesians 2:10).

The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE SOVEREIGN LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

You should be commended for this work, but it was for nought to that poster, it will be ignored and then you will be told you never addressed it. I found it quite interesting, and will go through it a couple of times to grasp it more fully, but a lot of it I agree right off .

 

[Red Baker]

@jeremiah1five

I read all the Gentile theology books and commentators from most all popular theologians. Charles Hodge, Edwards, Martin Luther, Vos, Grudem, even some contemporary authors of today and recent history. Piper, the antichrist, MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, Chuckie Smith, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Barth, Mark Deaver, and many others.

The first three you mentioned I would read, and have~ the other one's you mentioned I never have read hardly any of their writings, and have no desire to do so, or even start.

I'm very busy at the moment, and will respond to this post later, thanks for postings, but much of the contents is what I expected to find. Much of this is what I have read from Mountain Retreat forum .... Tony Warren, do you know him?

 

[Johann]

• grace - noun - dative/feminine/singular
• you is exclusively the subject in (Ephesians 2:8), and "you" is derived from the second person and plural count of the inflection of the verb "are".
• are - verb - is a present, indicative, active verb in the second person and plural count
• saved - verb - nominative/masculine/plural
• faith - noun - genitive/feminine/singular
• and - conjunction
• that - demonstrative pronoun - nominative/neuter/singular
• yourselves - personal pronoun - genitive in the second person with plural count.
• God - noun - genitive/masculine/singular
• gift - noun - nominative/neuter/singular

@Kermos

Your parsing has some correct elements but contains several errors.

Correct Parsing of Ephesians 2:8
Text:
τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον.
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."

1. Corrected Word-by-Word Parsing
Greek Word Lemma Part of Speech Case Gender Number Notes
τῇ ἡ Definite article Dative Feminine Singular Matches χάριτί
γὰρ γάρ Conjunction - - - Logical connector ("for")
χάριτί χάρις Noun Dative Feminine Singular "By grace" (means of salvation)
ἐστε εἰμί Verb - - 2nd Person Plural "You are" (present, indicative, active)
σεσῳσμένοι σῴζω Participle Nominative Masculine Plural Perfect, passive, participle ("having been saved")
διὰ διά Preposition - - - "Through" (indicating means)
πίστεως πίστις Noun Genitive Feminine Singular "Of faith" (genitive of means)
καὶ καί Conjunction - - - "And" (connective)
τοῦτο οὗτος Demonstrative Pronoun Nominative Neuter Singular Refers to the concept of salvation
οὐκ οὐ Adverb - - - "Not"
ἐξ ἐκ Preposition - - - "Out of, from"
ὑμῶν σύ Personal Pronoun Genitive - Plural "Of yourselves"
θεοῦ θεός Noun Genitive Masculine Singular "Of God"
τὸ ὁ Definite article Nominative Neuter Singular Matches "gift" (δῶρον)
δῶρον δῶρον Noun Nominative Neuter Singular "Gift"

2. Errors in Your Parsing and Corrections
"Saved" is not a verb

Incorrect: "saved - verb - nominative/masculine/plural"

Correct: σεσῳσμένοι is a perfect passive participle (not a verb) and is nominative/masculine/plural.


"you have been saved" This is a perfect passive periphrastic participle which is a repeat of Eph_2:5 (see note there). Its thrust is that "believers have been and continue to be" saved by God.
Meaning: It describes a completed action with continuing results: "having been saved" (perfect tense).

"That" (τοῦτο) is a demonstrative pronoun, but not referring to faith

Incorrect: Suggesting τοῦτο refers to πίστις (faith).

Correct: τοῦτο is neuter and refers to the entire process of salvation ("by grace through faith"), not just "faith."

"You" is not explicitly present in Greek

Incorrect: "You is exclusively the subject in Ephesians 2:8."

Correct: The subject is implicit in ἐστε ("you are"), but "you" is not explicitly written.

"Are" is a verb but not in the second person plural count

Incorrect: "Are - verb - is a present, indicative, active verb in the second person and plural count."

Correct: ἐστε ("you are") is second person plural, present indicative active, meaning "you (plural) are."

"Faith" is correctly parsed as genitive feminine singular

This part of your parsing is correct.

"Gift" (δῶρον) is nominative neuter singular

This is correctly identified.

3. Proper Theological and Syntactical Implications
σεσῳσμένοι (having been saved) is passive, meaning salvation is something received, not self-generated.

διὰ πίστεως (through faith) shows that faith is the means by which salvation is received—it does not say faith itself is the gift.

τοῦτο (that) refers to the entire concept of salvation by grace through faith, not to faith alone.

οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν (not of yourselves) clarifies that salvation is not earned.

θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον (the gift of God) confirms that salvation as a whole is a gift.

4. Summary of Corrections
Word Your Parsing Correct Parsing
saved Verb Perfect Passive Participle
that (τοῦτο) Refers to faith Refers to salvation as a whole
are Verb (correct) Verb (correct, 2nd person plural)
you Subject (explicit) Implied in the verb ἐστε

Your parsing contained some correct elements, but also major grammatical errors, particularly in identifying σεσῳσμένοι as a verb (instead of a participle) and misunderstanding the neuter demonstrative pronoun τοῦτο. The correct grammatical analysis confirms that salvation is by grace through faith, but faith itself is not "the gift"—salvation as a whole is.

Your claim that "saved" (σεσῳσμένοι) is a verb is incorrect.

1. Correct Parsing of σεσῳσμένοι (Saved)
Greek: σεσῳσμένοι

Root Lemma: σῴζω (sōzō, "to save")

Part of Speech: Perfect Passive Participle, NOT a verb.

Case: Nominative

Gender: Masculine

Number: Plural

Parsing: V-RPM/P-NMP (Verb - Perfect Middle/Passive Participle - Nominative Masculine Plural)

Meaning: "Having been saved" (a completed past action with continuing results).

2. Why σεσῳσμένοι is NOT a Finite Verb
Finite verbs express a direct action in a sentence, with a conjugated form indicating tense, mood, and person.

In Ephesians 2:8, the finite verb is ἐστε ("you are"), which is present indicative active, second person plural.

σεσῳσμένοι is a participle, which functions like an adjective or verbal noun, describing the state of the subject ("you").

The perfect tense in the passive voice means that the action of salvation was completed in the past but has continuing effects—this aligns with the biblical teaching that salvation is an accomplished work.

3. The Correct Verb in Ephesians 2:8
Finite Verb: ἐστε ("you are")

Present Indicative Active

2nd Person Plural

Meaning: "You are"

This verb carries the sentence and links to σεσῳσμένοι, which describes the state of "you" (plural).

4. Common Mistake: Confusing Participles with Verbs
A participle (like σεσῳσμένοι) is not a full verb on its own but is used to modify or describe something in the sentence. In Ephesians 2:8:

σεσῳσμένοι functions as a predicate adjective with ἐστε, meaning "you are saved."

It does not function as a finite verb but describes the state of the subject.

5. Proof from Standard Greek Grammars
A.T. Robertson (Greek Grammar, p. 891): "σεσῳσμένοι is a perfect passive participle used as a predicate nominative with ἐστε. The state of salvation is described as an existing fact."

Daniel B. Wallace (Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, p. 620): "σεσῳσμένοι is a periphrastic perfect construction, meaning that the participle functions with ἐστε to emphasize the present result of past action."

BDF Grammar (Blass-Debrunner-Funk, §352): "Perfect participles used with εἰμί express a state resulting from a completed past action."

6. Correct Understanding of Ephesians 2:8
τῇ γὰρ χάριτί → "By grace" (Dative of means).

ἐστε → "You are" (Finite verb, present indicative active).

σεσῳσμένοι → "Having been saved" (Perfect Passive Participle, Nominative Plural, describing state).

διὰ πίστεως → "Through faith" (Genitive of means).

καὶ τοῦτο → "And this" (Neuter singular demonstrative pronoun).

οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν → "Not from yourselves" (Genitive of source).

θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον → "It is the gift of God" (Nominative of apposition).

7. Final Conclusion
σεσῳσμένοι is NOT a verb—it is a participle.

ἐστε is the finite verb ("you are").

The correct translation is "For by grace you are having been saved through faith."

Your original parsing was incorrect in treating σεσῳσμένοι as a finite verb.

We are not scholars but even with a little bit of "Geek" we can twist the Scriptures, right @Kermos? And you need to work on the "promptings" since ChatGpt can make mistakes, but maybe you are not aware of this.

σεσῳσμένοι → "Having been saved" (Perfect Passive Participle, Nominative Plural, describing state)<<< Can you "see" this?

"through faith" Faith receives God's free gift in Christ (cf. Rom_3:22; Rom_3:25; Rom_4:5; Rom_9:30; Gal_2:16; Gal_3:24; 1Pe_1:5). Mankind must respond to God's offer of grace and forgiveness in Christ (cf. Joh_1:12; Joh_3:16-17; Joh_3:36; Joh_6:40; Joh_11:25-26; Rom_10:9-13).
God deals with fallen mankind by means of a covenant. He always takes the initiative (cf. Joh_6:44; Joh_6:65) and sets the agenda and the boundaries (cf. Mar_1:15; Act_3:16; Act_3:19; Act_20:21). He allows fallen mankind to participate in their own salvation by responding to His covenant offer. The mandated response is both initial and continuing faith. It involves repentance, obedience, service, worship, and perseverance.
The term "faith" in the OT is a metaphorical extension of a stable stance. It came to denote that which is sure, trustworthy, dependable, and faithful. None of these describe even redeemed fallen mankind. It is not mankind's trustworthiness, or faithfulness, or dependability, but God's. We trust in His trustworthy promises, not our trustworthiness! Covenant obedience flows from gratitude! The focus has always been on His faithfulness, not the believers' faith! Faith cannot save anyone. Only grace saves, but it is received by faith. The focus is never on the amount of faith (cf. Mat_17:20), but on its object (Jesus).
Utley.

J.

 

[TomL]

I believe my Leader Jesus “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake” (Philippians 1:29).

Um Actually you believe the word of your theology

For in context it refers to the work God would have you to do

John 6:27–29 (LEB) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but the food that remains to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For God the Father has set his seal on this one.” 28 So they said to him, “What shall we do that we can accomplish the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe in the one whom that one sent.”

Jesus told them there is a work they must do. They are to work for the food that remains to eternal life

You just ignore that

And further he reveals the work they are to do

believe in the one whom that one sent.”

repeated throughout the chapter

John 6:35 (LEB) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. The one who comes to me will never be hungry, and the one who believes in me will never be thirsty again.

John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47–48 (LEB) — 47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life.

John 6:53–54 (LEB) — 53 Then Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves! 54 The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.


showing it to be something they must do.

 

[TomL]

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake” (Philippians 1:29).

How those at Phillipi were granted faith


Acts 16:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. 11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis; 12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.



Paul is not saying that their faith was given to them, but that the opportunity to believe was given to them by God's grace as God sent Paul there to present the gospel and plant the church:



Smelley, Hutson. Deconstructing Calvinism: A Biblical Analysis and Refutation (p. 185). Hutson Smelley. Kindle Edition.

Paul was given a vision which caused him to go to Philippi and preach the gospel

You have assumed a unilateral giving in which the men played no part

That is pure assumption

First, there is the problem of describing faith as an infused or transmitted substance. Faith is not analogous to a current of electricity that passes through a conduit and results in a release of mechanical energy. Neither is faith to be likened to water sprinkled upon a seed planted in potted soil. These illustrations of faith confuse the instrument of salvation, faith, with the agent of salvation, the Holy Spirit. It should instead be suggested that faith is a human response, i.e., a Spirit-prompted conviction of the truth of the redemptive merits of Christ.

Second, the concept of infused faith for salvation bears a marked resemblance to the sacramentalism of the Roman Catholic Church. That is to say, faith becomes a transmitted and efficacious element which God gives to men for salvation. Again, it must be emphasized that faith is not a substance, but a human response prompted by the Holy Spirit.

Third, if faith is a gift, then men no longer bear the responsibility to believe the Gospel. The term believe becomes an equivocal expression if regeneration occurs before faith (i.e., the view of those who consider faith to be a gift of God).

Fourth and finally, an infused idea of faith engenders a less-than-balanced view of sanctification, i.e., victory in the spiritual life is viewed as a virtual guarantee. If God gives believers faith to live the Christian life, then the difficult aspects of progressive holiness commanded in Scripture tend to be soft-pedaled.

Given- χαρίζομαι

it means to be permitted or granted something (1 Cor. 2:12; Phil. 1:29; Phile. 1:22).1

1 Spiros Zodhiates, The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament (Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000).

Grant (Oxford dictionaries)



1usually with two objects Agree to give or allow (something requested) to.

‘they were granted a meeting’

‘her request was granted’

More example sentencesSynonyms

1. 1.1 Give (a right, power, property, etc.) formally or legally to.
2. ‘they will grant you asylum’

it means to be permitted or granted something (1 Cor. 2:12; Phil. 1:29; Phile. 1:22).



Syn.: dídōmi<G1325>,



Complete word study Dictionary



But, in their worldview, God has chosen to save those have ‘saving faith’ and them alone. The problem with the answer is two fold: 1) How it can be shown from the Bible that ‘saving faith’ is something ultimately generated by an unregenerated man’s inherent character (i.e. his intellect, his wisdom, and his spirituality).



How about everywhere (Eze 18:30-32; Acts 11:18; 15:9; John 5:40, John 6:53; 6:57; 12:36; 20:31; John 1:12-13; Gal 3: 2,5; 3:26; Eph 1:13; Col 2:12; 2 Cor 3:14-16; 1 Tim 1:16; James 1:8). Not one time in the Bible does regeneration precede faith. Each time the Bible discusses such things, faith precedes regeneration. Remember, it is from an in-born, Image of God, ability/characteristic, not an unregenerated, self-built character.



God does grant us the ability to believe and suffer for His sake. But “granting” or “enabling” faith, or the subsequent suffering that may result, is not the same as “effectually causing it.” Faith comes by hearing the word of God (Rom. 10:11-14), which is sent (or granted) first to the Jew and then the Gentile (Rom. 1:16). In other words, God is enabling faith by bringing the word of faith (His revelation), which is said to go first to Israel and then to “the high-ways and by-ways…the good and bad alike” (see the wedding banquet parable in Matt. 22). Remember, during the time of Paul, the Jews, generally speaking, had grown calloused to God’s revelation, otherwise they might have seen, heard, understood and turned to God, so the apostles took the message of repentance to the Gentiles, who unlike the Jews, “were willing to listen” (see Acts 28:27-28; John 12:39-41; Romans 9-11).