An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
If Jesus was praying for the world He would have said so, but He refused and rejected such a salvation prayer for the world, and do you want to know why? Because God has no covenant with the world.
You are infected by false Constantinian Gentile theology.
"Kosmos" is used of the Universe as a whole: Acts 17: 24 - "God that made the world and all things therein seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth." is used of the Universe as a whole: Acts 17: 24 - "God that made the world and all things therein seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth."
"Kosmos" is used of the earth: John 13:1; Eph. 1:4, etc., etc.- "When Jesus knew that his hour was come that He should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world He loved them unto the end." "Depart out of this world" signifies, leave this earth. "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world." This expression signifies, before the earth was founded-compare Job 38:4 etc.
"Kosmos" is used of the world-system: John 12:31 etc. "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the Prince of this world be cast out"- compare Matt. 4:8 and I John 5:19, R. V.
"Kosmos" is used of the whole human race: Rom. 3: 19, etc.-"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."
"Kosmos" is used of humanity minus believers: John 15:18; Rom. 3:6 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you." Believers do not "hate" Christ, so that "the world" here must signify the world of unbelievers in contrast from believers who love Christ. "God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world." Here is another passage where "the world" cannot mean "you, me, and everybody," for believers will not be "judged" by God, see John 5:24. So that here, too, it must be the world of unbelievers which is in view. is used of humanity minus believers: John 15:18; Rom. 3:6 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you." Believers do not "hate" Christ, so that "the world" here must signify the world of unbelievers in contrast from believers who love Christ. "God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world." Here is another passage where "the world" cannot mean "you, me, and everybody," for believers will not be "judged" by God, see John 5:24. So that here, too, it must be the world of unbelievers which is in view.
"Kosmos" is used of Gentiles in contrast from Jews: Rom. 11:12 etc. "Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their (Israel's) fulness." Note how the first clause in italics is defined by the latter clause placed in italics. Here, again, "the world" cannot signify all humanity for it excludes Israel!
"Kosmos" is used of believers only: John 1:29; 3:16, 17; 6:33; 12;47; I Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19. We leave our readers to turn to these passages, asking them to note, carefully, exactly what is said and predicated of "the world" in each place. is used of believers only: John 1:29; 3:16, 17; 6:33; 12;47; I Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19. We leave our readers to turn to these passages, asking them to note, carefully, exactly what is said and predicated of "the world" in each place.
Thus it will be seen that "kosmos" has at least seven clearly defined different meanings in the New Testament. It may be asked, Has then God used a word thus to confuse and confound those who read the Scriptures? We answer, No! nor has He written His Word for lazy people who are too dilatory, or too busy with the things of this world, or, like Martha, so much occupied with "serving," they have no time and no heart to "search" and "study" Holy Writ! Should it be asked further, But how is a searcher of the Scriptures to know which of the above meanings the term "world" has in any given passage? The answer is: This may be ascertained by a careful study of the context, by diligently noting what is predicated of "the world" in each passage, and by prayer fully consulting other parallel passages to the one being studied. The principal subject of John 3:16 is Christ as the Gift of God.
The above written by A. W. Pink.
I will do my best.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Even when men without force exercise their will freely even in doing evil, they are yet unknowingly fulfilling Gods decretive purpose and will, and so not free from His Sovereign control, case in point,
https://www.angelfire.com/nt/theology/elect-01.html The Plan of God
https://www.angelfire.com/nt/theology/elect-01.html The Plan of God
Johann
Well-known member
Your assertion—that even when men act freely in doing evil, they are ultimately fulfilling God's decretive will and are never outside His sovereign control—rests on a deterministic framework that does not fully account for the biblical portrayal of human freedom and responsibility. While it is true that God remains sovereign over all things, the notion that every human action, including evil ones, is a direct fulfillment of His decretive will raises several theological and scriptural concerns.
First, Scripture consistently affirms genuine human choice. In Deuteronomy 30:19, God declares, “I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life.” This language does not suggest a mere illusion of choice but rather a real capacity to choose between alternatives.
Similarly, Isaiah 65:12 states, “When I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.”
This passage clearly attributes responsibility to human beings for their decisions, indicating that their choices were not predetermined in a way that made them inevitable.
Second, a proper distinction must be made between God’s decretive will (what He actively ordains) and His permissive will (what He allows). While God permits certain actions, it does not follow that He causally determines them.
Jeremiah 19:5 strongly refutes the idea that all actions are decreed in a deterministic sense: “They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind.”
If God had decreed such acts in the sense of absolute determinism, He could not say that they had never entered His mind.
Additionally, your position aligns with compatibilism, which argues that divine sovereignty and human responsibility coexist because humans act according to their desires, even though those desires are ultimately determined.
However, this view struggles to reconcile with passages where humans are explicitly said to resist God's will. Acts 7:51 states, “Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost.”
If human actions are as predetermined as you suggest, then this resistance itself would be part of God’s decretive will, making divine rebuke meaningless.
Furthermore, Scripture presents numerous instances where God desires certain outcomes that do not come to pass.
2 Peter 3:9 affirms that “The Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
Matthew 23:37 records Jesus lamenting over Jerusalem: “How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!”
If divine sovereignty necessitated exhaustive determinism, then these expressions of unfulfilled divine desire would be incoherent.
Lastly, if every act of evil necessarily fulfills God’s decretive will in such a way that it could not have been otherwise, it raises significant moral concerns. It would imply that God is the ultimate cause of sin, a conclusion explicitly denied in James 1:13-14: “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.”
If God cannot even tempt someone to sin, how could He be the ultimate determiner of sin in a way that makes it unavoidable?
Therefore, while God’s sovereignty is absolute, it does not necessitate the kind of exhaustive determinism you propose. Scripture affirms both divine control and genuine human responsibility, and the attempt to reduce the latter to mere compatibilist freedom does not do justice to the biblical witness.
Thanks.
Johann.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
1. Abraham was a gentile. Israel was his grandson
2. God said in abraham shall all nations be blessed (gentiles included.
Gods covenant with Abraham was a covenant with the world. And also with his grandson and his 12 sons and their generations
You need to study more.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Abraham was Hebrew, born from the family of Eber.
13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Genesis 14:13.
Now, why would God identify Abram's ethnicity?
The "all nations" does not mean "Gentile." It is a reference to Abraham's seed through Ishmael and Esau. And the Bible records Ishmael and Esau were blessed of God in many ways. However, the important part is that the promises were passed to Isaac and then Jacob, and then to Jacob's twelve sons.
At the time of Abraham "nations" did not mean "Gentile" but as the word is defined, it merely means "masses" [of people.] Gentiles do not come from two Hebrew parents. Gentiles (non-Hebrew) come from Japheth and Ham. Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham.
@civic
Let me add another thought, or two, that may help to convince you, but if it does not, then I would not split, over this with another brother, because as I read up on this topic, good men have divided over this issue. The thoughts below ae totally my thoughts, subject to be corrected by another brother, if they can bring scriptures proof to do so, otherwise, I'll hold fast my understanding until then. Actually, I try to practice what I read many years ago from C.H. Spurgeon: "We must hold fast in one hand what we have received as the truth, while the other hand is open to be taught more perfectly to the truth."
Concerning angels being made in God's image ~I ask you, what other image could they possible be created in? There's not another.
Also, when angles took a human body in the scriptures, with what image did this body consist of?
In Genesis 19 the two angles that went to remove Lot from Sodom, where men, which had to be in the image of a man when Adam was first created, possessing spiritual wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, and true holiness, etc. The angel in Genesis 32 uses a human form to wrestle with Jacob on even footing. Some have entertained angels unaware, all these without question had God's image that God had given to Adam who lost that image when Satan deceived Eve and then Adam. This image is restored back to us at the new birth being now created in the image of Jesus Christ in our new man where the Spirit of God dwells.
Last edited:
@GodsGrace
The Justice of God in the election of angels.
1st Timothy 5:21
“I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.”I have touch on this subject many times over the past few years, now we want to start here with addressing the justice of God, starting where God started....creation of angels, and preserving some from falling, while allowing others to follow the power of their own will, and wisdom, apart from God preventing them from doing so. .
How could there possibly be any injustice in God’s electing those whom He did, when had He not done so all had inevitably perished, angels and men alike? This is neither an invention nor an inference of ours, for Scripture itself expressly declares:
Romans 9:29
“Except the Lord of Sabbaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodom”.
Not one of God’s rational creatures, either celestial or earthly, had ever been eternally and effectually saved apart from God's divine election of grace. Though both angels and men were created in a state of perfect holiness, yet they were mutable creatures, liable to change and fall. A truth that I have emphasized many times to make men think. Yea, inasmuch as their continuance in holiness was dependent upon the exercise of their own wills, unless God was pleased to supernaturally preserve them, their fall was certain. Why you asked: because God alone is immutable an attribute that he alone possess.
Job 4:18
“Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly”.
The angels were perfectly holy, yet if God gave them no other assistance than that with which He had capacitated them at their creation, then no “trust” or reliance was to be placed in them, or their standing. If they were holy today, they were liable to sin as soon as God left them to themselves. If God but sent them on an errand to this world, they would fall before they returned to Heaven apart form God securing their sate in which he created them. The “folly” which God imputes to them in the above passage is their creature mutability: for them to maintain their holiness unchangeably to eternity, without the danger of losing the same, was utterly beyond their creature endowment. Therefore, for them to be immutably preserved is a grace which issues from another and higher spring than the covenant of works or creation endowment, namely, that of election grace, super-creation grace.
It was meet that God should, from the beginning, make manifest the infinite gulf which divides the creature from the Creator. God alone is immutable, without variableness or shadow of turning. Fitting was it, then, that God should withdraw His preserving hand from those whom He had created upright, so that it might appear that the highest creature of all (Satan, “the anointed cherub” Ezek. 28:14) was mutable, and would inevitably fall into sin as soon when left to the exercise of his own free will. Of God alone can it be predicated that He “cannot be tempted with evil” (James 1:13). The creature, though holy, can be tempted to sin, fall, and be irretrievably lost. The fall of Satan, then, made way for evidencing the more plainly the absolute necessity of electing grace—the imparting to the creature the image of God’s own immutable holiness, and securing the same!
Because of the mutability of the creature-state God foresaw that if all His creatures were left to the conduct of their own wills, they were in a continual hazard of falling. He, therefore, made an election of grace to remove all hazard from the case of His chosen ones. This we know from what is revealed of their history. Jude tells us of “the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation” (v. 6), and the remainder of them would, all would have done so too, if left to the mutability of their own wills. So also it proved with Adam and Eve: both of them evidenced the mutability of their wills by apostatizing. Accordingly, God foreseeing all of this from the beginning, made a “reserve” (Rom. 11:4—explained in v. 5 as “election), determining to have a remnant who should be blessed of Him and who would everlastingly bless Him in return. Election and preserving grace are never to be severed.
We will point out moving forward that divine justice is of an entirely different order and character than human justice; second that divine justice is grounded upon God’s sovereign dominion over all the works of His hands, being the exercise of His own imperial will. Third, that nothing whatever is due the creature from the Creator, not even what He is pleased to give, and that so far from God’s being under any obligation to it, it is under lasting obligations to Him. Fourth, that whatever God wills and works is right and must be reverently submitted to, yea, adored by us. Fifth, that it is impossible to charge God with injustice in His electing certain ones to be the objects of His amazing grace, since that apart from it, all had eternally perished. Much herein I'm indebted to A. W. Pink.
John 17:6
“I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.”The persons given were not the Father's merely by creation; for so others are his also; nor would they be peculiarly his, for they are the son's likewise in this sense; but they are his by electing grace, which is the peculiar act of the Father in Christ, and is unto salvation by him, through the sanctification of the Spirit; these are chosen to be his peculiar people, and given to Christ as such.
God did not create man with a sinful nature, never said that, and not sure why you would think that to be so.
Nora, God had himself which was all he needed to be perfectly contended. Certainly God did not need to experiment, for infinite knowledge He possessed.
@Johann
Johann, follow the flow of the context, and you will see, just how dead sinners are before they can ear, see and believe. Notice carefully, that God's power that raised Christ from the dead (not just a separation from God, but truly Christ died and was buried) God used the "same power" to raised us from being dead in trespasses and sins, the exact same power Johann!
The claim is biblical, not necessarily a Calvinistic doctrine, but a biblical truth ~ a truth taught by Paul as we shall see moving forward.
Well Johann, Paul is speaking of a likeness of a dead corpse that is totally dead in a spiritual sense toward God, without power to do spiritual acts pleasing to God. How do know this? Context, which is king, and will drive the interpretation for us, without the means of relying on man to provide the interpretation for us. Need proof for I'm saying? No problem:
Ephesians 1:19,20
“And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,”Johann, follow the flow of the context, and you will see, just how dead sinners are before they can ear, see and believe. Notice carefully, that God's power that raised Christ from the dead (not just a separation from God, but truly Christ died and was buried) God used the "same power" to raised us from being dead in trespasses and sins, the exact same power Johann!
I just prove my point by using the immediate context, you cannot get closer to Ephesians 2:1 that I did by using Ephesians 1:19,20. Besides, your immediate context, does not explain how one goes form being dead in trespasses and sin to life in Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:19,20 does!
Well, that just proves that they are wrong, nothing more.
Johann, Romans 1:16 clearly said that the Gospel is the power of God to EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH, not to unbeliever, to them it is foolishness! You and many others are not hearing what the scriptures are actually saying, you are hearing what you want to hear, or what goes along with your doctrine. The truths of the gospel is revealed from faith to faith! Or, from a person who has faith, to another person who has faith, impossible to reveal truths to a person who is dead in trespasses and sin, impossible. Selah!
Ah, another subject change, angels....
Just one thought I like to share, since the vast majority of angels did not fall and are still loyal and holy, it means A&E did not have to fall either.
@Red Baker - God gave all His creatures (thus angels included) a will to love Him or to reject Him, He could have easily created angels and humans without a will that love Him and never sin (as He is Himself) and save Himself a lot of pain, but He did, because robotic love is no real love, it's fake love.
The will He gave us goes two ways, reject Him, or love Him in return because He loved us first.
1Joh 4:19 we--we love him, because He--He first loved us;
It's all so simple, Romans 1 makes it simple.
Just one thought I like to share, since the vast majority of angels did not fall and are still loyal and holy, it means A&E did not have to fall either.
@Red Baker - God gave all His creatures (thus angels included) a will to love Him or to reject Him, He could have easily created angels and humans without a will that love Him and never sin (as He is Himself) and save Himself a lot of pain, but He did, because robotic love is no real love, it's fake love.
The will He gave us goes two ways, reject Him, or love Him in return because He loved us first.
1Joh 4:19 we--we love him, because He--He first loved us;
It's all so simple, Romans 1 makes it simple.
Johann
Well-known member
@Red Baker
Brother, your interpretation of Romans 1:16 is based on a misunderstanding of how πιστεύω (pisteuō, "to believe") functions in the passage, and your claim that the gospel is impossible for unbelievers to receive is exegetically untenable.
1) "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ," (ou gar epaischunomai to euangellion) "For I am not ashamed of (blushing because of) the gospel (of Christ)." To Paul the gospel never ceased to be or exist as "good news", for sinners and the saved; of it he was never ashamed, neither should any child of God ever be, because of what it is and does for the lost, 2Ti_1:7-8; Mar_8:38.
2) "For it is the power of God unto salvation", (dunamis gar theou estin eis soterian) "For it is or (exists as) the power of God, with relation to salvation," or deliverance from the power and presence of sin, to the holiness and glory of God, 2Co_4:3-4; 1Co_1:18; 1Co_1:23-24; This gospel is accompanied by the power of the Holy Spirit, 1Th_1:5.
3) "To everyone that believeth " (panti to pisteuonti) "To everyone who believes"; note how universal is this offer, and how individual this acceptance of Salvation is made, in the redemptive gospel message, Joh_3:16; Joh_5:24; Joh_6:37; Act_10:43; Rom_10:9-10; Rom_10:13.
4) "To the Jew first," (louaio te proton) "Both, firstly (in priority) to the Jew, " Mat_3:15; Joh_1:11-12.
5) "And also to the Greek," (kai Helleni) "And to the Greek," as well or also; To the Greeks who said, "Sir, we would see Jesus," "we long to see the Savior;" he turned to make himself known to them also, Joh_12:21-23; These were "other sheep," not of the Jewish fold, Joh_10:16; Peter also unashamedly preached this gospel of power to others – Act_10:34-44.
1. Romans 1:16 – "To Everyone Who Believes" Does Not Mean "Only Those Already Believing"
Paul writes:
Οὐ γὰρ ἐπαισχύνομαι τὸ εὐαγγέλιον· δύναμις γὰρ θεοῦ ἐστιν εἰς σωτηρίαν παντὶ τῷ πιστεύοντι, Ἰουδαίῳ τε πρῶτον καὶ Ἕλληνι.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."
everyone who believes -- Salvation is offered to all people on the same grounds. An important theme in Romans is including Gentiles as equal participants with Jews in God’s new covenant (Rom_3:23-24, Rom_3:29-30; Rom_4:9-12, Rom_4:16-17; Rom_9:24-26, Rom_9:30-31; Rom_10:4, Rom_10:11-13; Rom_15:8-12).
believes -- "Believes" is here a synecdoche (a figure of speech frequently used in the scriptures) where a part is put for the whole. Here it stands for the whole process of coming to God and trusting Him so explicitly that one obeys and follows Him fully.
Jew first and also to the Greek --
The key phrase παντὶ τῷ πιστεύοντι (panti tō pisteuonti, "to everyone believing") uses the present active participle of πιστεύω, which signifies an ongoing or current action. This does not mean that only those who were already believing can be saved; rather, the gospel is available to all who believe upon hearing it.
Think of a key that unlocks a door—the key itself has the power to open, but it is effective only when one takes it and turns the lock. The gospel is inherently powerful (δύναμις θεοῦ, dynamis Theou), but that power is applied when one believes—it does not mean the key is only handed to those who already have an open door!
2. 1 Corinthians 1:18 – "Foolishness" Does Not Mean "Impossible to Receive"
You referenced 1 Corinthians 1:18:
ὁ λόγος γὰρ ὁ τοῦ σταυροῦ τοῖς μὲν ἀπολλυμένοις μωρία ἐστιν, τοῖς δὲ σωζομένοις ἡμῖν δύναμις θεοῦ ἐστιν.
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
Yes, unbelievers often perceive the gospel as μωρία (mōria, "foolishness"), but this does not mean they are incapable of responding.
A blind man sees no light, but that does not mean he is incapable of being healed if his eyes are opened. Jesus' ministry was filled with those who initially could not see but later came to faith—Paul himself being the prime example (Acts 9:1-18).
If unbelievers were incapable of responding to the gospel, why does Paul say in Romans 10:17:
ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς, ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ.
"So faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."
If faith comes through hearing, then unbelievers can indeed hear and believe, just as Acts 16:14 describes Lydia’s heart being opened through hearing the gospel.
3. The Gospel Must Be Preached to Unbelievers, Not Just to the Already Believing
Jesus commanded:
πορευθέντες εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἅπαντα κηρύξατε τὸ εὐαγγέλιον πάσῃ τῇ κτίσει.
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)
If the gospel were only for those already believing, why would it need to be preached to all creation? This is like a doctor who only gives medicine to those who are already well! The gospel is the medicine of life for those perishing.
4. "Dead in Sin" Does Not Mean "Incapable of Believing"
Ephesians 2:1:
καὶ ὑμᾶς ὄντας νεκροὺς τοῖς παραπτώμασιν καὶ ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις.
"And you, being dead in trespasses and sins."
To be νεκρός (nekros, "dead") in sin does not mean one is incapable of responding to the gospel. Jesus said in John 5:25:
ἔρχεται ὥρα καὶ νῦν ἐστιν, ὅτε οἱ νεκροὶ ἀκούσουσιν τῆς φωνῆς τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ, καὶ οἱ ἀκούσαντες ζήσουσιν.
"The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."
If spiritual deadness means total inability, then how do the dead "hear" and "live"?
Being "dead in sin" means being separated from God, not being incapable of responding to His voice.
5. "From Faith to Faith" Does Not Mean "Only Transferred Between Believers"
Romans 1:17 states:
δικαιοσύνη γὰρ θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ ἀποκαλύπτεται ἐκ πίστεως εἰς πίστιν, καθὼς γέγραπται· Ὁ δὲ δίκαιος ἐκ πίστεως ζήσεται.
"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written: ‘But the righteous shall live by faith.’”
You claim that ἐκ πίστεως εἰς πίστιν (ek pisteōs eis pistin, "from faith to faith") means faith is only passed between believers, but this is not what the phrase means.
ἐκ πίστεως (ek pisteōs, "from faith") refers to the origin of righteousness—faith.
εἰς πίστιν (eis pistin, "to faith") refers to the continuation or growth of faith.
A.T. Robertson explains that this phrase is a progression, either from initial faith to mature faith or from the faith of the preacher to the faith of the hearer. It does not mean that gospel truth is impossible to reveal to an unbeliever.
This is like a flame igniting another flame—faith spreads, but that does not mean the second flame already existed before it was lit!
The Gospel’s Power Is to Save Those Who Believe, Including Unbelievers Who Respond
Romans 1:16 does not mean the gospel is only for preexisting believers—it is the power to save all who believe upon hearing it.
1 Corinthians 1:18 states that the perception of unbelievers is that the gospel is foolishness, not that they are incapable of believing.
If faith comes by hearing (Romans 10:17), then unbelievers must be able to hear and respond.
To be "dead in sin" means separation from God, not an incapacity to respond—just as Jesus calls the "dead" to "hear and live" (John 5:25).
"From faith to faith" refers to the progression of faith, not a restriction on whom the gospel can reach.
You are treating faith like a club membership—only available to those who already possess it. But the biblical analogy is clear: faith is like a spark that spreads when the gospel is preached. It does not require a person to be already believing to ignite.
Thanks.
J.
Another awesome verse that glorifies the Lord God Almighty by faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Hallelujah!
civic
Well-known member
Wrong
1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
hope this helps !!!
@ProDeo
The only reason some did not leave their first estate, was by the very fact God secured their state in which they were created by electing some of them, a great multitude no doubt.
No one has said that Adam and eve had to fall, yet it was inevitable they would, since God alone is immutable.
I agree ~ with an exception of the elect angels ~ they were created and elected to love him and serve him. The difference between the elect angels and those that were not can only be trace to God's election of them.
God created Michael and Lucifer, and caused Jacob and Esau birth in time and chose one and rejected the other, before either of them had done any good or evil, their election secured eternal life for each, based solely on God's will to elect one and not the other.
ProDeo, that will to love and obey their Creator, lasted no longer than when God left them to themselves!
Most people do not hear what John is saying in 1st John 4:19. The only reason why any man loves God is that God first loved him. God does not love all men without an exception, some he hates. God only loves those chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world, all others are an object of his hatred. He loved his own even while they were dead in trespasses and sins. There is no middle ground. If God loved all men without an exception then John's words would have no meaning of any value. The only reason why any person loves God is that God first loved that person.
Truth is not that simple, but it is easy to those who understands!
Proverbs 14:6
“A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.”Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
Good luck my friend.
You have some strange thinking.
Gen 12, In you (literally through your seed) Shall all the families, or nations of the EARTH be blessed
next
@civic
Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”Civic, in Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is the faith of Christ, for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and this faith alone is the means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. This faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.
When a man hears and believes, it is not the old man (for that is impossible) but his new man that is a creative work in God's elect by the almighty power of God~this birth happens to a child of God sometimes after conception and before death, and is evidenced by faith and obedience to the word of God. Two prime examples of this is John the the Baptist and the thief on the cross.
I could spend more time proving the metonymy in Ephesians 2:8 by the context in just before verse 8, in verses: 4-6..."But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"
We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago. This is the faith that is NOT of ourselves, but it is the gift of God provided for us by our surety, Jesus Christ. This is the truth of the gospel, but, Lord who hath believed our report, not many.
Red, it does not say there was no second chance. He is comparing the fate of the false prophets and false teachers to the fate of the angels who sinned. But then, I guess you believe that by election or lack thereof, there was/is no second chance with the false prophets and false teachers either. 'Tis a Pity, indeed.
