An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
You wrote "Does this sound like a JUST God", so a visit to the Apostle Paul writing is due:
18 He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory
(Romans 9:18-23)
Paul declares God's Sovereign control of man with "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:18).
Immediately after writing that God is in control, Paul continued with "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'" (Romans 9:19) - herein resides man wrongly assigning man's accountability for sin to God - the fault question.
Romans 9:18 segues right into Romans 9:19-23.
Bringing these together:
Paul conveyed "God is in control" (Romans 9:18) then the "you" defiantly mocks God's control with "Why does He still find fault for speaking careless words when it's GOD THAT PREDESTINATED me to speak them? For who resists His will?" (the book of Second Opinions 9:19).
The "you" in Romans 9:19-20 is the person who rejects God by way of rejecting God's exclusive control of man's salvation; in other words, the "you" is the person that claims man has a free-will.
Do not forget that it is written that no purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2), so scripture reveals that man cannot resist God's will, and Paul knows scripture.
Notice the "you" questioning why God still finds fault. Paul conveys that the "you" asks the fault question in a mocking manner, and the subsequent question about God's will continues with the "you" mocking God who is entirely in control of man's salvation according to Paul (Ephesians 2:8-10 for example).
The "you" is certainly mocking because immediately after the question about God's will, Paul wrote:
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? (Romans 9:20)
See the "On the contrary" which is indicative that the following statement of Paul refutes the mocking questions of the "you" about the fault question and the question about God's will (in Romans 9:19).
Paul continues immediately after "On the contrary" in Romans 9:20 showing that the thing molded cannot resist the will of the Molder.
The thing molded represents the "you".
The Molder represents God.
IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN CANNOT RESIST GOD'S WILL (ROMANS 9:19-20)!
Behold the parallel of the defiant "you" as adversary against God (in Romans 9:19-20) to free-willians based upon the content of free-willian philosophical writings - look at your post, GodsGrace.
My brother Paul wrote "it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy" (Romans 9:16).
Self-will or image of Christ will
These 16 parts integrally contribute to one full composition. A response to post #6,699.Part 1 of 16: Illegitimate Isolation
Part 2 of 16: Self-exaltation
Part 3 of 16: Unity Prayer (Acts 4:24)
Part 4 of 16: CHOOSE, ABLE, list
Part 5 of 16: God creates all
Part 6 of 16: Matthew 11 examined
Part 7 of 16: Free-willian NT Conflict
Part 8 of 16: John 3 16/Matthew 11:25
Part 9 of 16: Free-willian Self-savior
Part 10 of 16: Faith, the gift of God
Part 11 of 16: Free-willian are self-willed
Part 12 of 16: The Potter and the clay
Part 13 of 16: the problem here
Part 14 of 16: you confuse Calvin for Christ
Part 15 of 16: Christ controls Christians
Part 16 of 16: Christians hear Christ
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
You have a Bible. Each covenant beginning with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) is between God, Abram the Hebrew, and with his Hebrew seed. The Mosaic Covenant is between God and with the children of Israel. The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.) There is no covenant in the Bible between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE.
Joel, prophesied God's Spirit is promised to Israel. There is no Scripture by any of the Hebrew prophets promising God's Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE.
Samaritans (mixed heritage Hebrews) are called "Samaritan" by Jews and not called "Jews." This people are the offspring of various ten tribes of Israel and Gentiles. They are mixed heritage Hebrews as a result of the Assyrian conquest and exile by the Assyrians, and the Jewish women were raped, made concubines, or made slaves by the Assyrians. The Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom in 722 BC. From that date until the advent of Jesus are about 25-30 generations of births in those 700-plus years. Samaria was the capital of the ten northern kingdom tribes that rebelled against the two southern kingdom tribes (Judah and Benjamin.) The northern kings were the most corrupt and in time faced God's judgment and were defeated by Assyria and taken away into Assyria.
The kingdom of Judah held out the longest and after Babylon defeated Assyrian the northern kingdom tribes were taken to Babylon. In 586 BC Judah was finally conquered by Babylon and carried away captive. In 522 BC king Cyrus gave Nehemiah permission to return to the Holy Land to rebuild their city. Only a "remnant" returned with Nehemiah. Ten percent of all living Hebrews returned to Israel while the majority of Hebrews (90%) remained in Babylon, and the surrounding territories in-between. From 586 BC until the advent of Jesus is about 15-20 generations. But the majority of Hebrews that remained living in Gentile lands were heavily influenced by Greek culture, Assyrian culture, and Babylonian culture.
Let me ask you this: The Samaritans were the offspring of ten northern tribes and Assyrian and other Gentile (non-Hebrew) tribes. They are called "Samaritan" in the gospels.
But what are the two southern kingdom tribes
And how do you know you are a vessel of mercy in your theology?
You can not know.
You have to live your whole life in fear.
Else you haven't understood your own theology.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Thanks for confirming what I've been telling you BF:
IN CALVKNISM THERE IS NO GOSPEL.
Of course you're wrong....
Scriptures are for EVERYONE.
And how do you know you are of Jewish DNA in your theology?
You can not know.
You have to live your whole life in fear.
Else you haven't understood your own theology.
And how do you know you are an elect in your theology?
You can not know.
You have to live your whole life in fear.
Else you haven't understood your own theology.
You are adding to scripture once again
2 Peter 3:3–9 (NASB95) — 3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
In your theology, God has no need for patience. He regenerates, causes to repent and saves at his will without any need to wait upon man coming to repentance.
Your theology is contrary to scripture.
@GodsGrace @Jim @civic @MTMattie @Johann @brightfame52 @Administrator
It is not about about Calvinism, nor Arminianism, or, any other "ism" per se ~but it truly comes down to what saith the word of God? Armenians have much more problems when it comes to preaching the truth, so much more. The truth is, all men teachings concerning Soteriology will land them close to one of the two schools that have been in professing Christendom since the days of Christ.
I personally prefer to address scriptures and leave sect calling out as much as possible, there will be times that we must name sects, just as Christ did, but, for the most part preach/teach the truth and that will take care of much unneeded, and unappreciated slandering, just to be slandering, often times to mustard up support and to just put one down as their only means left for them in debating. Much like kids do when they know they are beat, then all they have left is to speaking evil about the person in some way that's degrading, that they think they have an advantage. There's a lot of bashing of Calvinism on this forum, some I think is warranted by the way some defend Calvinism with their short. often repeated post that truly serves no purpose, it would have been better if they just shut up and speak when they truly have something to say. Now that's off my should, let me address this post.
Greetings Fran,
Maybe some do who teach God's election of grace, and the doctrines of grace, as I do, yet, I can assure you that I have no problem addressing scriptures that has "all....whosoever....world...any...etc., etc." A sincere child of God welcomes any opposing scriptures to his doctrine, for either it will sharpen his understanding once considered and made to agree with other scriptures, or it will convert him, as it has me over the years on certain doctrines. even concerning my understanding of this very subject under consideration.
I well remember back in the early to mid seventies when I first begin to see the truths concerning grace, I started out in a Baptist church that taught free will, preached against election and that forced me to consider the scripture as to what they taught and I gradually went from not believing to first accepting three points of what is known as Calvinism. I remember one preacher saying to me~well, you are a Calvinst, even though you do not preach in a limited atonement ~and I told him, I do not see that in the scriptures yet, but if I do, then I will believe it and defend it with all of my heart, and soon afterward I begin to teach that Christ died only for his people ~ after I considered God's justice for the payment made, knowing that if payment had been made, then God must acquit, knowing God is more righteous than man, and if man has a law of double Jeopardy, God much more so will not demand payment twice, once at my surety's hand, and then at mine!
So, Fran, you pick any scriptures you think I would have trouble understanding where there is "all" ~ and let us consider the same.
Fran, that's going against scriptures when applying this without any restriction to the unregenerate. It is God that grants repentance, so if He grants repentance, that how absurd to even make such a statement?
2nd Timothy 2:25
“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;”Acts 11:18
“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”Only Adam and Eve had a will free from being a servant to sin and the devil, all other have a will that is in bondage to both; thereby, God must create a new man, after the image of Jesus Christ before one is truly free to do spiritual acts pleasing to God. Salvation (from sin and condemnation) is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth (worketh) but of God's pure mercy to the sinner. John 1:13; 5:40; etc.
2 Peter 3:9 (NASB95) — 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Ezekiel 33:11 (LEB) — 11 Say to them, ‘As I live,’ declares the Lord Yahweh, ‘Surely I have no delight in the death of the wicked, except in the wicked returning from his way, and he lives. Turn back! Turn back from your ways, O evil ones, for why should you die, house of Israel?’
Ezekiel 18:23 (LEB) — 23 Have I delight by any means in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord Yahweh, and not at his turning from his way, so that he lives?
God grants repentance by sending the word of repentance which is to be preached to all
When man receives that word and repents he is stated to have been given repentance or that he simply repented
Free-will of man is not mentioned here:
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
(2 Peter 3:9)
@TomL showed that he incidentally produced universal salvation of everyone everywhere including all believers and all unbelievers in 2 Peter 3:9, @Red Baker, or @TomL incidentally produced a description of God in which God is miserably pathetically incapably weak.
Coming to repentance is clearly shown as a response of man.
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
(2 Peter 3:9)
It is the reason for God's patience. In your theology, God has no need for such.
And thus we see a defect in your theology.
BTW there is no universal salvation in my view. You wrongly assume atonement made is atonement applied, ignoring the biblical requirement for faith.
Christ can die for all as the scriptures show and all not be saved, highlighting another defect of your theology
nb
Johann
Well-known member
Brother-your argument asserts that only Adam and Eve had a free will unbound by sin, while all others are in absolute bondage to sin and Satan, requiring God to create a new man before they can do anything pleasing to Him. However, this claim does not fully align with Scripture, which consistently affirms both the reality of sin and human responsibility.
First, Scripture presents mankind as capable of responding to God. Deuteronomy 30:19 commands, “Choose life in order that you may live”—a meaningless exhortation if human will were entirely enslaved. Likewise, Joshua 24:15 calls people to “Choose for yourselves today whom you will serve.” These passages demonstrate that while sin has deeply affected humanity, the ability to choose God is still present.
Second, your appeal to John 1:13 and Romans 9:16 does not support the notion that man’s will plays no role in salvation. John 1:12-13 states that those who receive Christ are given the right to become children of God. The phrase “not of the will of man” in verse 13 does not mean that faith is impossible, but rather that salvation is not initiated by human effort. Likewise, Romans 9:16 speaks of God's sovereign mercy, yet Romans 10:9 immediately clarifies that salvation comes through confessing and believing. These passages highlight God’s initiative in salvation but do not negate man’s responsibility to believe.
Rom 10:9 For if with your lips you acknowledge the fact that Jesus is Lord, and in your hearts you believe that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For in their hearts people exercise the faith that leads to right standing, and with their lips they make the acknowledgment which means salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "No one who puts his faith in Him will ever be put to shame."
Third, your claim that man cannot do anything pleasing to God before regeneration contradicts John 5:40, where Jesus tells the unbelieving Jews, “But you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.” This places the failure to come on their unwillingness, not on an inherent inability. Similarly, Luke 13:34 records Jesus lamenting over Jerusalem: “I wanted to gather your children together… but you were not willing!” If human will were in absolute bondage, these rebukes would make no sense.
Finally, you argue that God must first create a new man before one can believe, but Scripture consistently places faith before regeneration. Acts 16:31 says, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,” showing belief precedes salvation. Ephesians 1:13 states that after hearing and believing, one is sealed with the Spirit—meaning the new birth follows faith, not the other way around.
Your argument ultimately collapses because it misinterprets human depravity as total inability, ignores passages that affirm human responsibility, and reverses the biblical order by placing regeneration before faith.
While salvation is entirely by God’s grace, Scripture shows that man is still responsible to respond in faith.
Johann.
Pure Calvinism, at its core, is an appealing theology for simpletons because it removes any personal responsibility from the equation of salvation. By teaching that God does everything and man does nothing, it presents a straightforward, black-and-white worldview that is easy to grasp for those who prefer not to wrestle with the complexities of faith, free will, and personal accountability. This doctrine, especially in its strictest form, insists that God alone determines who is saved and who is damned, making human effort, repentance, or even faith itself irrelevant. Such a view is comforting to those who would rather not think too deeply about their role in salvation and prefer the idea that everything is already settled for them.
At the heart of Calvinism is predestination, the belief that God has already chosen, from eternity past, who will go to heaven and who will go to hell—regardless of what they do. For the simple-minded, this is an easy system to accept because it removes any need for self-reflection, moral effort, or the struggle of genuine faith. Instead of engaging with the idea that God desires a relationship with people who must actively seek Him, Calvinism hands its followers a ready-made excuse for passivity: if they are among the elect, they will be saved no matter what; if not, then nothing they do matters anyway.
Another appealingly simple concept is irresistible grace, which teaches that those whom God has chosen have no say in the matter—they will believe and be saved, while those not chosen have no ability to respond to God’s call. This reduces salvation to an arbitrary divine lottery, removing any notion of personal striving, prayer, or decision-making. Such a framework is perfect for those who want to avoid the effort of wrestling with faith and would rather be told that everything is predetermined, freeing them from responsibility.
Yet, Scripture repeatedly calls people to repent, believe, and follow Christ, which assumes an active role in salvation. The Calvinist, however, ignores these calls in favor of a system that absolves them of all responsibility. For those who struggle with deep thought and personal accountability, Calvinism offers an easy way out: no need for self-examination, no need for effort—just blind acceptance of their supposed place in God’s plan.
In the end, Calvinism is a simplistic theology that appeals to those who prefer to see the world in rigid, preordained categories rather than engage with the complex reality of human free will and divine grace. It is a comforting belief system for those who would rather be told that everything is decided for them, sparing them the burden of real spiritual effort. For the simple-minded, this is ideal—but for those willing to think deeply about God’s nature and their role in faith, it quickly falls apart.
MTMattie
Well-known member
NO SIR. According to Got Questions.... Simply put, the “elect of God” are those whom God has predestined to salvation. They are called the “elect” because that word denotes “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.”You @brightfame52 have mostly indicated you are in the Augustinian camp with the Augustinian view, which essentially teaches that God not only divinely elects those who will have faith in Jesus Christ, but also divinely elects to grant to these individuals the faith to believe in Christ. In other words, God’s election unto salvation is not based on a foreknowledge of an individual’s faith, but is based on the free, sovereign grace of Almighty God.
In the Augustinian view, God has control; He is the one who, of His own sovereign will, freely chooses those whom He will save. He not only elects those whom He will save, but He actually accomplishes their salvation. Rather than simply make salvation possible, God chooses those whom He will save and then saves them. This view puts God in His proper place as Creator and Sovereign.
Now... should you now claim this is not the way it is... The other inclusive of election also includes free will that you dont believe in.
@TomL
2nd Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”Quoting scriptures without even attempting to give them their God given sense proves nothing, other than the person quoting the scripture has no understanding to their true biblical meaning.
" The Lord ," saith Peter ," is long-suffering to us-ward , not willing that any should perish ." Will not common sense (which is not too common any more) teach us that US is to be repeated in both the following clauses, to make them up complete and full , namely , " Not willing that any of US should perish? "
Now , who are these of whom the apostle speaks , to whom he writes ? Such as had received "great and precious promises ," 1:4 , whom he calls "beloved," 3:1 ; whom he opposeth to the "scoffers" of the "last days," verse 3; to whom the Lord hath respect in the disposal of these days ; who are said to be "elect," Matt.24:22 .
Now, truly, to argue that because God would have none of those to perish , but all of them to come to repentance , therefore he hath the same will and mind towards all and every one in the world ( even those to whom he never makes known his will , nor ever calls to repentance , if they never once hear of his way of salvation ), and a rejection of the truth. Neither is it of any weight to the contrary, that they were not all elect to whom Peter wrote : for in the judgment of charity he esteemed them so , desiring them " to give all diligence to make their calling and election sure ," chap. 1:10; even as he expressly calleth those to whom he wrote his former epistle , "elect," chap.1:2 , and a "chosen generation," as well as a "purchased people," chap.2:9 .
Tom, God has made a promise to destroy this world with fire, and that promise will be kept, but, he first will gather together his elect (usward) sheep into the fold before that that day comes, which is why God has not come back as of yet. I would say that that day is upon us, since very few anymore truly loves and follows the scriptures, which proves that few are truly being saved anymore. But, that day and hour is hidden from us, so we keep ourselves ready for that day.
L.A.M.B.
Active member
AMEN and well stated.
You wrote "Coming to repentance is clearly shown as a response of man" which directly contradicts the Word of God “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21) and “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).
God's patience is for each and every single one of God's chosen people to be converted from the kingdom of the world into the Kingdom of God which includes each child of God's repentance caused by God, and this Truth (John 14:6) is seen in:
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
(2 Peter 3:9)
Johann
Well-known member
Brother-your interpretation of 2 Peter 3:9 hinges on the assumption that us-ward (εἰς ἡμᾶς) in the first clause must be repeated in the latter clause, restricting the scope of "any" and "all" to a supposed group of elect believers. However, a careful analysis of the Greek verbs in this passage, along with contextual and syntactical considerations, undermines this restrictive interpretation.
1. Greek Verbal Analysis of 2 Peter 3:9
Key Greek Phrases and Their Verbs
οὐ βραδύνει κύριος τῆς ἐπαγγελίας (ou bradunei kyrios tēs epangelias) – "The Lord is not slow concerning the promise"
βραδύνει (bradunei, present active indicative, 3rd person singular) – This verb means "to delay" or "to be slow." The present tense signifies an ongoing reality: God is not delaying without purpose.
ἀλλὰ μακροθυμεῖ εἰς ἡμᾶς (alla makrothymei eis hēmas) – "but is longsuffering toward us"
μακροθυμεῖ (makrothymei, present active indicative, 3rd person singular) – This verb means "to be patient" or "to endure with long-suffering." The present tense here reinforces that God's patience is actively displayed toward a certain group (εἰς ἡμᾶς, "toward us").
μὴ βουλόμενος τινὰς ἀπολέσθαι (mē boulomenos tinas apolesthai) – "not willing that any should perish"
βουλόμενος (boulomenos, present middle/passive participle, nominative masculine singular) – The verb boulomai means "to will, to desire, to wish." As a present participle, it expresses an ongoing disposition or intent rather than a determined decree. This undermines the claim that this expresses an absolute decree of election.
τινὰς (tinas, accusative masculine plural) – "any," an indefinite pronoun that is not limited by default unless the context demands it.
ἀπολέσθαι (apolesthai, aorist middle infinitive) – "to perish," derived from apollumi (ἀπόλλυμι), meaning "to be destroyed, to perish." The aorist aspect points to a definitive end rather than an ongoing process of destruction.
ἀλλὰ πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν χωρῆσαι (alla pantas eis metanoian chōrēsai) – "but that all should come to repentance"
πάντας (pantas, accusative masculine plural) – "all," again an unrestricted term unless the context limits it.
χωρῆσαι (chōrēsai, aorist active infinitive) – "to come, to proceed," emphasizing the desired outcome of repentance. The aorist aspect implies a decisive action rather than a continuous process.
2. Addressing the Restrictive Interpretation (Repetition of "Us")
Your argument rests on the claim that τινὰς (any) and πάντας (all) refer only to "us" (εἰς ἡμᾶς), meaning a particular elect group. However, this is grammatically and contextually unfounded.
Greek Syntax Does Not Require Repetition of "Us"
The phrase εἰς ἡμᾶς (toward us) is attached to μακροθυμεῖ (is longsuffering).
However, the subsequent clause—"not willing that any should perish"—introduces a new subject (τινὰς and πάντας), which is not inherently linked to the previous "us."
If Peter had intended to limit τινὰς and πάντας strictly to "us," a clarifying pronoun or article would be necessary (e.g., τινὰς ἡμῶν "some of us" or πάντας ἡμῶν "all of us"). The absence of such a modifier suggests a broader referent.
Peter’s Use of "All" and "Any" in Context
Nowhere in 2 Peter does Peter use πάντας (all) in a way that limits it to the elect.
2 Peter 3:7 speaks of the ungodly being reserved for judgment, immediately setting the context of God’s dealings with all people, not just believers.
The contrast in 2 Peter 3:3 ("scoffers will come") and 2 Peter 3:9 ("not willing that any should perish") suggests that τινὰς (any) and πάντας (all) include both believers and unbelievers—hence, the general human race.
3. Broader Biblical Context – God's Desire for Repentance
Ezekiel 18:23+ – "Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? Declares the Lord GOD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"
God's revealed desire (ḥāpēṣ, חָפֵץ, equivalent to Greek boulomai) is that even the wicked turn from their sins.
1 Timothy 2:4+ – "Who desires (θέλει, thelei) all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
Uses a different verb (thelo instead of boulomai), but still expresses God's genuine will toward humanity.
Romans 2:4+ – "Do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?"
Again, God's patience has a universal dimension, not just for the elect.
4. The Context of Election and Judgment
Your argument heavily relies on equating us with a group of elect believers. However, 2 Peter 3 is about judgment and God's patience before executing final destruction. The passage is not a decree of individual election but an explanation of why God delays judgment—so that all have time to repent.
If the text meant only the elect, it would make no sense in the broader context. If only the elect are in view, why does Peter contrast "scoffers" (v.3) with the call to repentance (v.9)? Why does he mention the destruction of the ungodly (v.7) while asserting God's longsuffering? The patience of God here extends to the world at large, not just a preselected group.
2 Peter 3:9 Does Not Support a Restrictive Interpretation
The Greek verb βουλόμενος (willing) expresses God’s desire, not an absolute decree, which aligns with passages where God calls all people to repent.
The syntax does not require repeating "us", and grammatically τινὰς (any) and πάντας (all) are unrestricted unless modified, which they are not.
The immediate and broader biblical context shows that God’s patience and desire for repentance are extended to all humanity, not just a preselected elect.
Your interpretation imposes a restrictive theological presupposition onto the text that neither the Greek syntax nor the context supports. Instead, 2 Peter 3:9 affirms that God’s patience is directed at humanity, desiring repentance for all, before final judgment is executed.
"not wishing for any to perish" This is a Present middle (deponent) participle. God wants all humans to be saved (cf. Eze_18:23; Eze_18:32; Eze_33:11; Joh_3:16; Joh_4:42; Act_17:30; Rom_11:32; 1Ti_2:4; 1Ti_2:6; 1Ti_4:10; Tit_2:11; Heb_2:9; 1Jn_2:2). Because all humans are made in His image for personal fellowship, He sent His Son to die so that all may respond to Him (cf. Rom_5:12-21). This is an important balance to theological systems which major on God's place in salvation, but minimize mankind's needed covenantal response. I have included my notes from 1Ti_2:4 (Vol. 9, p. 25) regarding this topic.
Notes from my commentary on 1Ti_2:4
2Pe_2:4 "who desires all men to be saved" Believers are to pray for all people because God wants all people saved. This was a shocking statement to the exclusivistic false teachers, whether Gnostic or Jewish or, more probably in the pastoral letters, a combination.
This is the great truth about God's love for all mankind (cf. 1Ti_4:10; Eze_18:23; Eze_18:32; Eze_33:11; Joh_3:16; Act_17:30; Rom_11:22; 1Ti_2:4; 1Ti_2:6; 1Ti_4:10; Tit_2:11; Heb_2:9; 2Pe_3:9; 1Jn_2:2).
This verse shows the imbalance of dogmatic, super-lapsarian, double-edged predestination which emphasizes God's sovereignty to the exclusion of any needed human response.
The stated truths of "five point" Calvinism, especially "irresistible grace" and "limited atonement" violate the covenant aspect of biblical faith. It is improper to reduce God to a puppet of human free will, as it is also improper to reduce mankind to a puppet of divine will. God in His sovereignty has chosen to deal with fallen mankind by means of covenant.
He always initiates and structures the covenant (cf. Joh_6:44; Joh_6:65), but He has mandated that humans must respond and continue to respond in repentance and faith (cf. Mar_1:15; Act_3:16; Act_3:19; Act_20:21), as well as obedience and perseverance!
Often the theological discussion of God's sovereignty (predestination) and human free will deteriorates into a proof-texting contest.
The Bible clearly reveals the sovereignty of YHWH. However, it also reveals that His highest creation, mankind, made in His image, had been given the awesome personal quality of moral decision making. Humans must co-operate with God in every area of life.
The term "many" has been used to assert that God has chosen some (the elect) but not all; that Jesus died for some, not all. A careful reading of the following texts shows that these are used in a parallel sense!
Isaiah 53
Romans 5
1. "all" (Isa_53:6)
2. "many" (Isa_53:11-12)
1. "all" (Rom_5:18)
2. "many" (Rom_5:19)
To youward (eis humas). Pros rather than eis after makrothumei in 1Th_5:14 and epi in Jas_5:7, etc.
Not wishing (mē boulomenos). Present middle participle of boulomai. Some will perish (2Pe_3:7), but that is not God’s desire. Any (tinas). Rather than “some” (tines) above. Accusative with the infinitive apolesthai (second aorist middle of apollumi. God wishes “all” (pantas) to come (chōrēsai first aorist active infinitive of chōreō, old verb, to make room). See Act_17:30; Rom_11:32; 1Ti_2:4; Heb_2:9 for God’s provision of grace for all who will repent.
J.
Notice the word "should". If the verse was talking about only the elect then the verse would have used the word "will" instead of "should". IOW, the verse should have read something like: all (elect) will come to repentance. So your attempt to warp the meaning of 2 Pet 3:9 fails miserably.
