Well, at least YOU did not say it was because I was not baptized after believing.
Go ahead. I am sure you will have some takers.
This was not said to all mankind. PERIOD. Not this verse. But it is the verse that
@Kermos et al use to claim they were chosen out of the world.
You know better then that. "Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you".... and ordained you. NOT ONCE DO YOU SEE ANY SUGGESTION THAT 'THEY'' WERE CHOSEN BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH. Predestination style.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Ye have not chosen me - The word here translated "chosen" is that from which is derived the word "elect," and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated,
Mark 13:20;
Matthew 24:22,
Matthew 24:24,
Matthew 24:31;
Colossians 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles.
Matthew Poole's Commentary
Ye have not chosen me to be your Lord, Master, Saviour,
but I have chosen and ordained you; so we have it in our translation; but the Greek is, eyhka, I have set you, or placed you in a station. What choosing Christ here speaks of is doubted amongst various divines. Some think that our Saviour here speaks of his choice of them to the apostleship, as
Luke 6:13 John 6:70: those who thus understand it, understand by going and bringing forth fruit, the apostles’ going out, preaching, and baptizing all nations, bringing forth fruit amongst the Gentiles. But others understand it of election to eternal life, and the means necessary to it; for our Saviour brings this as an argument of his greatest love: Judas was in the first sense chosen, yet not beloved with any such love: and this seemeth to be favoured by
John 13:18, I speak not of you all; I know whom I have chosen: and certain it is, Augustine and others of the ancients from hence proved the freedom of election and special grace. Both senses may be united, for the eleven (to whom Christ was now speaking) were chosen in both senses; they were chosen for this end, to bring forth fruit amongst the Gentiles, turning many to righteousness, and that they might bring forth the fruit of holiness, in obedience to the gospel of Christ. Yea, not only to bring forth fruit, but that they might persevere in bringing forth fruit; and that thus doing, they might have a freedom of access to the throne of grace, and obtain whatsoever they should ask of the Father, in the name, for the merits, and through the mediation of the Lord Jesus Christ. See Poole on "
John 14:13". See Poole on "
John 14:14".
From:
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible (In part)
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,.... Not but that they had made choice of him as their Lord and Master, Saviour and Redeemer; but not first, he was before hand with them; he chose them, before they chose him; so that his choice of them was entirely free, did not arise from any character, motive, or condition in them: the allusion is to a custom of the Jews, the reverse of which Christ acted; with whom it was usual for disciples to choose their own masters, and not masters their disciples: hence that advice of R. Joshuah ben Perachiah, said (r) to be the master of Jesus of Nazareth,
(s), "make", provide, or chose "thyself a master", and get thyself a companion.''
Those words in Sol 2:16; "my beloved is mine, and I am his", are thus paraphrased by the Jews (t);
"he hath chosen me, and I have chosen him:''
which is not amiss, provided the latter choice is thought to be by virtue, and in consequence of the former; if not, our Lord directly opposes the words and sense.
This may be understood both of election to salvation, and of choice to the office of apostleship; in both which Christ was first, or chose them before they chose him, that good part, which shall never be taken away; for as they were chosen in him, so by him, before the foundation of the world; being as early loved by him, as by his Father; and in consequence thereof, were chosen by him, for his people and peculiar treasure; he first chose and called them to be his disciples and apostles, to follow him, preach his Gospel, and become fishers of men; and clothed them with full power and authority to exercise their high office:
Why? Because they had a mission to fulfill.
Question. When Jesus sent his diciples out to the various churches, what was the reason?
SEE BELOW
Red,
"And you are
a living proof of its modern day followers!" REALLY??????
It is my church only so far as they serve communion and I partake... "from home". I am not going to go find another brick and mortar building to attend knowing only too well that at some point I will see that they are not following the bible as is clearly understandable. You said yourself that
you have not attended a brick and mortar building for a long time... did you not?
You have known me long enough to know I do not subscribe to the teaching of my church. I have walked my own path longer then I can say I was comfortable saying I am a born again Christian ... SPIRIT BORN... of which I am not certain you relate to that.
Is it that You are so against the idea of free will that even a predestined church that mentions is (BUT NO REAL PREACHING ON IT) bugs you?
You are not a Calvin predestined believer as you have said over the years that I have known you. But you have a form of predestined belief... for everyone????
You said " It just proves how confused your church is, attempting to live up to what some of their founders believed in and what they! And you are
a living proof of its modern day followers! " I do not follow them.... Must I totally give up membership here and to all to prove that to you?
I ask how this can be when I am not a Calvin/predestined believing person and I cringe every time the pastor quotes something of Calvin
from the pulpit. Of course, you may feel I am one of the reprobates that Calvin talked about and the Westminster Confession of Faith had written in... and I am doomed to "not be saved but to whatever the people will be depending on their interpretations from death, to damnation, to hell.
Because I choose to follow Christ, and the Holy Spirit is living within me?
You say I am incapable of making that choice by my free will? Well, duh!!!!!!!! Here I am, and there is no turning me back... unless I get to the pearly gates and St. Peter is there blocking my entrance telling me that I am not allowed to enter because I came to my belief wrong. That it is not the wrong belief but how I came to believe and understand the faith I have. ... and then he turns me away.
Yes... I know it does not work that way... but maybe for free will believers it might
I do know that much of what you believe I dont.
