An Article on free will

[Kermos]

1 John 2:2-He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:15-17-Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 4:3-6- but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 John 4:14- And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world

1 John 5:19- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Now its very clear from the Lexicon definition and in 1 John that the cosmos/world does not mean Gods elect (that is Calvinism) not what John means in his epistle. It clearly means everyone with no exceptions in this world, all of its inhabitants who make up the ungodly multitude. It is clearly all inclusive of everyone, all, the entire world that lies under the evil one in opposition to God from the context of 1 John.

Only someone with a closed mind trapped in their dogma/doctrine would argue otherwise resulting in eisegesis( reading their own ideas into the text) rather than exegesis ( letting the text dictate ones ideas ).

We see above that the whole world lies under the evil one and its that same identical whole world in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus made PROPITIATION for which is clear from the CONTEXT in 1 John.

So if the above truth from 1 John 2:2 which is clear as to the biblical meaning is all inclusive not exclusive ( Gods elect Jew/Gentiles) which comes from ones dogma/doctrine ( calvinism) and not Scripture and specifically in 1 John makes me a non calvinist then I'm here to official renounce my association with that group.

I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma, never the doctrines of men, never to win friends, but to only uphold the Truth in Gods word from its context. And the context here is in clear opposition to the teaching of Calvinsm in 1 John. World NEVER means Jew/Gentiles in the epistle but means all of the inhabitants of the world /cosmos who are ungodly , where the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes come from and the god of this world the evil one the spirit of antichrist , the spirit of falsehoods rules and reigns in all of those inhabitants in opposition to God.

Its that world whom Christ made propitiation. Doctrine/Dogma will never cloud my mind and I will seek, search truth until my dying day and never allow any systematic theology or bias to cloud my view of Scripture.


The Golden Rule of Interpretation

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),founder of The Biblical Research Society

These Greek Lexicons affirm world means all, everyone, the whole world without exception.

Thayers

Cosmos: the inhabitants of the

5. world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17.

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Since your post leads off with "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2, then it is prudent to look at how "the whole world" is used throughout the First Letter of John.

The Word "World" in The Book of the First Letter of John (1 John 2:2, 1 John 5:19)​

The Apostle John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world" (1 John 2:2).

The Apostle John also wrote "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

Notice "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author.

Since self-willed you (2 Peter 2:9-10) says "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 means every person everywhere can choose salvation, then your interpretation of "the whole world" has you as part of "the whole world" lying in the evil one per 1 John 5:19.

The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.

Because John wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), then this means Christians are beyond the evil one; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.

This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include us Christians.

This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include every person everywhere because Christians are not included.

This means that you have not overcome the evil one since such you include yourself in "the whole world" thus including yourself as lying in the evil one.

The "lies" or "lying" in the evil one is similar to "abides" or "abiding" in the evil one, so there is a tight relationship between such you and the evil one.

The English word "lies" in 1 John 2:2 derives from the Greek word "κεῖται" (Strong's 2749 - keimai - to be laid, lie) which specifically means "lay".

This means that you exclude yourself from being a Christian, and it is your free-willian definition of "world" that effectually renders your state of being.

This also means the word "world" does not have to mean every person everywhere when the word "world" is used in the Bible.

These two different meanings for the word "world", "the whole world", occur in one book of the New Testament.

It is time to return to 1 John 2:2.

• John was writing to God's own people in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John), so the context is believers, John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 2:2) - that "our" and the upcoming "ours" are Christians, so continuing on with that which John wrote "and not for ours only, but also for the whole world".
• A believer reading 1 John 2:2 knows that God converted the believer from "the whole world" into the "our" of God's assembly of believers (Matthew 18:3), yet an unbeliever who reads 1 John 2:2 considers Jesus' sacrifice foolishness (1 Corinthians 2:14); therefore, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 is such that "the whole world" refers to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who God is yet to work faith/belief in the Son of God whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
• The phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 refers only to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who are yet to be imparted the work of God which is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29); otherwise, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 results in everyone everywhere being saved from the wrath of God, a.k.a. universalism, yet universalism is deception because the Word of God says "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 7:21) thus Jesus indicates that some people do not enter heaven which means those people go to hell (Matthew 25:41).
• The phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 refers only to persons yet to become part of Israel, the true Israel (Romans 9:6) and persons grafted into Israel (Romans 11:11-36), for the Word of God says "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24).

In 1 John 2:2, the word "world" does not include persons that currently have been imparted the work of God, faith/belief, in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29) because John led with "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only", so John uses "our" for exclusively current believers and John uses "world" for exclusively future believers.

The word "world" in 1 John 2:2 is the population of persons who are yet to be imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29), and this population of persons excludes persons that will not be imparted faith/belief before such persons die.

The word "world" in 1 John 5:19 is the population of persons who have NOT been imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29), and this population of persons includes persons that will not be imparted faith/belief before such persons die.

Behold, the two different populations of persons represented by "world" in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John).

Lord Jesus Christ's atonement always succeeds! But, you demand your CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT as recorded in post #3,926 of this thread. According to your Free-willian Philosophy Christ's atonement applies to all people everywhere in all time, and the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:

• Christ atoned for Tom's sin before Tom heard of Christ. If Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• Christ atoned for Nancy's sin before Nancy heard of Christ. If Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ's atonement succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's atonement failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE CHRIST!!!

 

[ProDeo]

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

Second time I ask, when you sin, it's not your fault?

 

[GodsGrace]

So, for you, Lord Jesus Christ's use of the conjunction "for" at the beginning on John 3:16 is meaningless to you.

FOR in John 3:16 means BECAUSE.
Why did Jesus die?
BECAUSE GOD SO LOVE THE WORLD, THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON....

I don't really care to discuss WORDS in scripture UNLESS they're very important and most are NOT because they've been correctly translated.

Translation should not be used to support doctrine.
GOD SO LOVE
THE WORLD
THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN JESUS IS SAVED

THOSE are the important words of John 3.16
John 3:5 JESUS states that one must be born again to see the Kingdom.....to be a part of the Kingdom.

Jesus came to set up God's kingdom here on earth...
to make this earth a better place.
Perhaps we should refer to the beatitudes in Matthew chapters 5 to 7.

What could FOR possibly mean other than BECAUSE?

We children of God are the beneficiaries of God working God's love in us Christians, for the Christ of us Christians says “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34).

And, John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love).

And, John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”).

So, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GOD OF LOVE!!!

We do everything through God Kermos.
Jesus said He was going away so the Holy Spirit could come.
To comfort us...to lead us into all truth.

It's important that we know the truth that leads to salvation.
I posted 4 or 5 verses about salvation and how it is BY BELIEF in JESUS and how we are to take action.
In fact, BELIEVE is an action word. It states something that we are doing.
God extends His hand to everyone...whosoever will...
but it's our part to grab onto it so He could pull us up.

Please post some verses that show man does not have free will.

In the meantime...here are some verses that show we have free will:

Psalm 110:3
3 Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew.
Deuteronomy 23:23
23 "You shall be careful to perform what goes out from your lips, just as you have voluntarily vowed to the LORD your God, what you have promised.
Judges 5:1-2
1 Then Deborah and Barak the son of Abinoam sang on that day, saying,
2 "That the leaders led in Israel, That the people volunteered, Bless the LORD!
1 Corinthians 9:16-17
16 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel.
17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.
1 Peter 5:2
2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily,


There's much more Kermos.
You like to concentrate on one word....
how do you explain the above?

 

[Cosmo]

Second time I ask, when you sin, it's not your fault?

Yes it's our fault.

When tempted, no one should say, 'God is tempting me.' For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death... Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created'

James 1:12-18​

​

Matthew 18:15-20​

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault,

Romans 6:14​

For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

We have been set free from sin and death. Going back to a sinful (pretend believers) lifestyle is like a dog returning to his own vomit.

Walking in the Light
…8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.…

 

[Kermos]

Help me out, when you sin, it's not your fault?

I proclaim the Sovereignty of God to the glory of God according to the Word of God in the Love of God, and Almighty God's Redemption of the world is Love. In typical free-willian fashion, you, @MTMattie (your "Like"), and @civic (your "Like") issue a post devoid of Holy Scripture thus your Free-willian Philosophy is null.

Discussing me is unimportant, but discussing the Word of God is my heart's treasure! Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) nullified the Word of God when you deleted the Word of God from the post which God caused me to compose, so let's review.

Lord Jesus Christ lovingly says "no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (Matthew 11:27) which is similar to "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Notice, the only Way (John 14:6) for one to know Jesus is by the cause of the will of the Way.

Notice, further, Jesus mentions not the free-will of man as a contributing factor, at all.

Notice even further that the Lord says “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25) as a prelude to Matthew 11:27 quoted above.

Lord Jesus Christ speaks of blessed revelation caused by God inside of us chosen by God to the glory of God!

@ProDeo, @MTMattie, and @civic, see your Free-willian Philosophy contradicting the Holy Word of God in the following.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

 

[civic]

I proclaim the Sovereignty of God to the glory of God according to the Word of God in the Love of God, and Almighty God's Redemption of the world is Love. In typical free-willian fashion, you, @MTMattie (your "Like"), and @civic (your "Like") issue a post devoid of Holy Scripture thus your Free-willian Philosophy is null.

Discussing me is unimportant, but discussing the Word of God is my heart's treasure! Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) nullified the Word of God when you deleted the Word of God from the post which God caused me to compose, so let's review.

Lord Jesus Christ lovingly says "no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (Matthew 11:27) which is similar to "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Notice, the only Way (John 14:6) for one to know Jesus is by the cause of the will of the Way.

Notice, further, Jesus mentions not the free-will of man as a contributing factor, at all.

Notice even further that the Lord says “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25) as a prelude to Matthew 11:27 quoted above.

Lord Jesus Christ speaks of blessed revelation caused by God inside of us chosen by God to the glory of God!

@ProDeo, @MTMattie, and @civic, see your Free-willian Philosophy contradicting the Holy Word of God in the following.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Fatalism which is your belief system is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

 

[ProDeo]

I proclaim the Sovereignty of God to the glory of God according to the Word of God in the Love of God, and Almighty God's Redemption of the world is Love. In typical free-willian fashion, you, @MTMattie (your "Like"), and @civic (your "Like") issue a post devoid of Holy Scripture thus your Free-willian Philosophy is null.

Discussing me is unimportant, but discussing the Word of God is my heart's treasure! Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) nullified the Word of God when you deleted the Word of God from the post which God caused me to compose, so let's review.

Lord Jesus Christ lovingly says "no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (Matthew 11:27) which is similar to "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Notice, the only Way (John 14:6) for one to know Jesus is by the cause of the will of the Way.

Notice, further, Jesus mentions not the free-will of man as a contributing factor, at all.

Notice even further that the Lord says “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25) as a prelude to Matthew 11:27 quoted above.

Lord Jesus Christ speaks of blessed revelation caused by God inside of us chosen by God to the glory of God!

@ProDeo, @MTMattie, and @civic, see your Free-willian Philosophy contradicting the Holy Word of God in the following.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

This was my simple question -

Help me out, when you sin, it's not your fault?

You returned no answer, instead a load of Gish gallop.

Furthermore you made false accusations
1. You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ
2. so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
3. Your heart makes false statements about God and man

And you conclude all that based on a simple question.

Furthermore you contradict yourself
I use free will to mean man choosing toward God

Written using my God given free will.

 

[Kermos]

FOR in John 3:16 means BECAUSE.
Why did Jesus die?
BECAUSE GOD SO LOVE THE WORLD, THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON....

I don't really care to discuss WORDS in scripture UNLESS they're very important and most are NOT because they've been correctly translated.

Translation should not be used to support doctrine.
GOD SO LOVE
THE WORLD
THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN JESUS IS SAVED

THOSE are the important words of John 3.16
John 3:5 JESUS states that one must be born again to see the Kingdom.....to be a part of the Kingdom.

Jesus came to set up God's kingdom here on earth...
to make this earth a better place.
Perhaps we should refer to the beatitudes in Matthew chapters 5 to 7.

What could FOR possibly mean other than BECAUSE?


We do everything through God Kermos.
Jesus said He was going away so the Holy Spirit could come.
To comfort us...to lead us into all truth.

It's important that we know the truth that leads to salvation.
I posted 4 or 5 verses about salvation and how it is BY BELIEF in JESUS and how we are to take action.
In fact, BELIEVE is an action word. It states something that we are doing.
God extends His hand to everyone...whosoever will...
but it's our part to grab onto it so He could pull us up.

Please post some verses that show man does not have free will.

In the meantime...here are some verses that show we have free will:

Psalm 110:3
3 Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew.
Deuteronomy 23:23
23 "You shall be careful to perform what goes out from your lips, just as you have voluntarily vowed to the LORD your God, what you have promised.
Judges 5:1-2
1 Then Deborah and Barak the son of Abinoam sang on that day, saying,
2 "That the leaders led in Israel, That the people volunteered, Bless the LORD!
1 Corinthians 9:16-17
16 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel.
17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.
1 Peter 5:2
2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily,


There's much more Kermos.
You like to concentrate on one word....
how do you explain the above?

You wrote "In fact, BELIEVE is an action word...it's our part to grab onto it", but your words mismatch with Lord Jesus Christ's words of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29). I believe In Lord Jesus! Thank you for all you do, Lord and God Jesus!

No Holy Scripture states man was imparted free-will by God, in fact, Holy Scripture states God is Sovereign. Below, you can find an excerpt from the post to which you replied that states the Sovereignty of God, perhaps this time you won't neglect the Word of God. Before that prior post quotations of the Word of God, the word "world" as used by Jesus recorded in John 3:16 must be visited has this pertains to the Sovereignty of God, too.

You lied when you wrote "You like to concentrate on one word" because God caused me to discuss “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34) and more in the post to which you replied.

I proclaim the concept of Lord Jesus declares with His words:

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"
(John 3:14-16).
​

Among Christ's words there is "for" (Strong's Greek: 1063. γάρ (gar) -- for, because, since on BibleHub.com) at the beginning of John 3:16, and the word "for" conjoins a preceding statement to constrain a succeeding statement.

In other words, from the above BibleHub.com page is found:

HELPS Word-studies
1063 gár (a conjunction) – for. While "for" is usually the best translation of 1063 (gár), its sense is shaped by the preceding statement – the "A" statement which precedes the 1063 (gár) statement in the "A-B" unit.
Copyright 2021 by Discovery Bible
​

The conjunction "for" (or "because") indicates that "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16) is a dependent concept upon the prior concept of "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that every believing will in Him have eternal life"
(John 3:14-15).

The Word of God conclusively proves that Christ's context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus recorded in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus. This is based upon Christ correlating populations from the time of "the serpent in the wilderness" (John 3:14) to the time of the crucifixion of Christ by way of Christ integrating the Word of God recorded in Numbers 21:8-9.

As to the prior post that God caused me to quote the Word of God regarding the Sovereignty of God.

We children of God are the beneficiaries of God working God's love in us Christians, for the Christ of us Christians says “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34).

And, John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love).

And, John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”).

So, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

You do not truly love Christ unless God causes the love.

BTW, the word "voluntarily" is a mistranslation in Psalm 110:3, accurately, the root "nadab" results in "generously".

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE SOVEREIGN GOD OF LOVE!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

You wrote "In fact, BELIEVE is an action word...it's our part to grab onto it", but your words mismatch with Lord Jesus Christ's words of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29). I believe In Lord Jesus! Thank you for all you do, Lord and God Jesus!

No Holy Scripture states man was imparted free-will by God, in fact, Holy Scripture states God is Sovereign. Below, you can find an excerpt from the post to which you replied that states the Sovereignty of God, perhaps this time you won't neglect the Word of God. Before that prior post quotations of the Word of God, the word "world" as used by Jesus recorded in John 3:16 must be visited has this pertains to the Sovereignty of God, too.

You lied when you wrote "You like to concentrate on one word" because God caused me to discuss “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34) and more in the post to which you replied.

I proclaim the concept of Lord Jesus declares with His words:

​

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"​

(John 3:14-16).​

​

Among Christ's words there is "for" (Strong's Greek: 1063. γάρ (gar) -- for, because, since on BibleHub.com) at the beginning of John 3:16, and the word "for" conjoins a preceding statement to constrain a succeeding statement.

In other words, from the above BibleHub.com page is found:

​

HELPS Word-studies​

1063 gár (a conjunction) – for. While "for" is usually the best translation of 1063 (gár), its sense is shaped by the preceding statement – the "A" statement which precedes the 1063 (gár) statement in the "A-B" unit.​

Copyright 2021 by Discovery Bible​

​

The conjunction "for" (or "because") indicates that "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16) is a dependent concept upon the prior concept of "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that every believing will in Him have eternal life"
(John 3:14-15).

The Word of God conclusively proves that Christ's context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus recorded in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus. This is based upon Christ correlating populations from the time of "the serpent in the wilderness" (John 3:14) to the time of the crucifixion of Christ by way of Christ integrating the Word of God recorded in Numbers 21:8-9.

As to the prior post that God caused me to quote the Word of God regarding the Sovereignty of God.

We children of God are the beneficiaries of God working God's love in us Christians, for the Christ of us Christians says “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34).

And, John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love).

And, John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”).

So, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

You do not truly love Christ unless God causes the love.

BTW, the word "voluntarily" is a mistranslation in Psalm 110:3, accurately, the root "nadab" results in "generously".

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE SOVEREIGN GOD OF LOVE!!!

I have difficulty in understanding why you'd want to post to a liar....me.
Also, you speak a lot about love but you don't really show any.

John 3:16 is NOT A DESCRIPTIVE verse.

IT IS PRESCRIPTIVE.

It does not state that only those believing will be saved.
You're changing the verb....

It says WHOSOEVER BELIEVES....NOT.....THOSE WHO BELEIVE.

Calvinists do this.
They concentrate on a word because they cannot really use scripture because the
word of God fights against calvinism which does not properly represent God.

They twist the meanings of verses to make then say what they THINK they say.

And,,,I didn't only post Psalm 110, but a few more.
HOW do you explain those away?
Right...by stating that FREE does not really mean FREE.

Let's do this Kermos.....
The church ALWAYS taught free will until the 5th century when a
manichaen gnostic decided to become Catholic and taught some odd doctrine.
John Calvin knew him from his writings. and loved the man.
His name is Augustine of Hippo.

So...look for some statements from those that the APOSTLES taught and see
if you could find them stating that man has no free will.

Here are some stating that man has free will:

Now for a lesson in church history.
The Importance of Free Will to the Early Church Fathers

If you've listened to and read nothing but Calvinistic theologians and pastors who deny any sort of free wills or agents distinct from God, then it may seem strange to hear that nearly all of the Early Church Fathers believed and emphasized the importance of free will.
Indeed, prior to the later writings of Augustine in the late fourth century regarding an idiosyncratic misreading of Romans (particularly Romans 9) and what St. Paul meant by predestination, all of the Early Church Fathers agreed that one's salvation was conditional on the free choice to receive the Gospel and follow Jesus.

While providing quotes from all of the Fathers would prove too long for this post I will give a few (please note that any italics in the quotes are mine and are not original to the quotations).

St. Clement of Rome (d. 99 CE)—who is mentioned by Paul in
Philippians 4:3—says this:

"For no other reason does God punish the sinner either in the present or future world, except because He knows that the sinner was able to conquer but neglected to gain the victory." (Clement of Rome, Recognitions 111. 23, V. 8, IX. 30.)

St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35-107 CE)—a student of the Apostle John—says this:

" ...and there is set before us life upon our observance [of God's precepts (aka the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Savior)], but death as the result of disobedience, and every one, according to the choice he makes, shall go to his own place, let us flee from death, and make the choice of life." (Ignatius of Antioch, The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, ch.5, long version)

"If any one is truly religious, he is a man of God; but if he is irreligious, he is a man of the devil, made such, not by nature, but by his own choice." (Ignatius of Antioch, The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, ch.5, long version)
Before going further, note here that both St. Clement and St. Ignatius were only one generation removed from Jesus himself. Indeed, they were both in direct contact with the Apostles themselves! What does that say if students of the Apostles believed in the importance of genuine free will?
St. Justin Martyr (c.100-165 CE), one of the great early Christian apologists had much to say on the matter in his dialogues with anti-Christian opponents:

"...God, wishing men and angels to follow His will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness; possessing reason, that they may know by whom they are created, and through whom they, not existing formerly, do now exist; and with a law that they should be judged by Him, if they do anything contrary to right reason: and of ourselves we, men and angels, shall be convicted of having acted sinfully, unless we repent beforehand. But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall be certainly punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably [wicked], but not because God had created them so. So that if they repent, all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God..." (Justin Martyr, Second Apology for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, chapter CXLI)

"We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man's actions. Otherwise, if all things happen by fate, then nothing is in our own power. For if it be predestined that one man be good and another man evil, then the first is not deserving of praise or the other to be blamed. Unless humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions-whatever they may be... For neither would a man be worthy of reward or praise if he did not of himself choose the good, but was merely created for that end. Likewise, if a man were evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable to do anything else than what he was made for.’ (Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapter 43)


Now, please go find some writings from the theologians that learned from the Apostles stating that we DO NOT have free will.
Thanks.

Oh. And make sure they're not gnostics because IT'S THE GNOSTICS THAT BELIEVED MAN DID NOT H AVE FREE WELL.
AGUSUTINE WAS ONE OF THEM......

 

[Kermos]

I have difficulty in understanding why you'd want to post to a liar....me.
Also, you speak a lot about love but you don't really show any.

John 3:16 is NOT A DESCRIPTIVE verse.

IT IS PRESCRIPTIVE.

It does not state that only those believing will be saved.
You're changing the verb....

It says WHOSOEVER BELIEVES....NOT.....THOSE WHO BELEIVE.

Calvinists do this.
They concentrate on a word because they cannot really use scripture because the
word of God fights against calvinism which does not properly represent God.

They twist the meanings of verses to make then say what they THINK they say.

And,,,I didn't only post Psalm 110, but a few more.
HOW do you explain those away?
Right...by stating that FREE does not really mean FREE.

Let's do this Kermos.....
The church ALWAYS taught free will until the 5th century when a
manichaen gnostic decided to become Catholic and taught some odd doctrine.
John Calvin knew him from his writings. and loved the man.
His name is Augustine of Hippo.

So...look for some statements from those that the APOSTLES taught and see
if you could find them stating that man has no free will.

Here are some stating that man has free will:

Now for a lesson in church history.
The Importance of Free Will to the Early Church Fathers

If you've listened to and read nothing but Calvinistic theologians and pastors who deny any sort of free wills or agents distinct from God, then it may seem strange to hear that nearly all of the Early Church Fathers believed and emphasized the importance of free will.
Indeed, prior to the later writings of Augustine in the late fourth century regarding an idiosyncratic misreading of Romans (particularly Romans 9) and what St. Paul meant by predestination, all of the Early Church Fathers agreed that one's salvation was conditional on the free choice to receive the Gospel and follow Jesus.

While providing quotes from all of the Fathers would prove too long for this post I will give a few (please note that any italics in the quotes are mine and are not original to the quotations).

St. Clement of Rome (d. 99 CE)—who is mentioned by Paul in
Philippians 4:3—says this:



St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35-107 CE)—a student of the Apostle John—says this:



"If any one is truly religious, he is a man of God; but if he is irreligious, he is a man of the devil, made such, not by nature, but by his own choice." (Ignatius of Antioch, The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, ch.5, long version)
Before going further, note here that both St. Clement and St. Ignatius were only one generation removed from Jesus himself. Indeed, they were both in direct contact with the Apostles themselves! What does that say if students of the Apostles believed in the importance of genuine free will?
St. Justin Martyr (c.100-165 CE), one of the great early Christian apologists had much to say on the matter in his dialogues with anti-Christian opponents:



"We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man's actions. Otherwise, if all things happen by fate, then nothing is in our own power. For if it be predestined that one man be good and another man evil, then the first is not deserving of praise or the other to be blamed. Unless humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions-whatever they may be... For neither would a man be worthy of reward or praise if he did not of himself choose the good, but was merely created for that end. Likewise, if a man were evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable to do anything else than what he was made for.’ (Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapter 43)


Now, please go find some writings from the theologians that learned from the Apostles stating that we DO NOT have free will.
Thanks.

Oh. And make sure they're not gnostics because IT'S THE GNOSTICS THAT BELIEVED MAN DID NOT H AVE FREE WELL.
AGUSUTINE WAS ONE OF THEM......

The Word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16), and I believe the Word of God (John 1:14).

In our short exchange regarding "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:14-16), your Free-willian Philosophy sums up as:

• God loves Daphne of the world before and after Daphne hears of Christ. Daphne chose to love/believe in Christ, so God rewards Daphne with eternal life.
• God loves Fred of the world before and after Fred hears of Christ. Fred chose not to love/believe in Christ, so God punishes Fred with eternal death.
• Conclusion: the Love of God is so very weak that people like Fred draw the Love of God to burn in hell for eternity according to your Free-willian Philosophy.

The Word of God conclusively proves that Christ's context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus recorded in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

Neither Psalm 110:3, Deuteronomy 23:23, Judges 5:1-2, 1 Corinthians 9:16-17, nor 1 Peter 5:2 contain free-will (will=yes and free-will=no and self-will=yes and Christ-image-will=yes and all OT quotes should be derived from "generous" not "volunteer"), and none of the passages contain the Word of God imparting free-will into man capable of successfully choosing God, and you used mistranslations among those passages that makes you feel your Free-willian Philosophy is legitimized, yet the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Now, you run to non-biblical sources because the Word of God is not enough for you! Beware of modern translators distorting early non-bible writings with Free-willian Philosophy.

You neglected the wonderful Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) in the post to which you replied.

You also keep disregarding the following.

We children of God are the beneficiaries of God working God's love in us Christians, for the Christ of us Christians says “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34).

And, John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love).

And, John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”).

So, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

You do not follow and truly love Christ unless God causes the love.

We Christians follow and truly love Christ our Leader, Lord, and, God.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GOD WHO RAINS GRACE ON US HIS CHILDREN!!!

 

[MTMattie]

I proclaim the Sovereignty of God to the glory of God according to the Word of God in the Love of God, and Almighty God's Redemption of the world is Love. In typical free-willian fashion, you, @MTMattie (your "Like"), and @civic (your "Like") issue a post devoid of Holy Scripture thus your Free-willian Philosophy is null.

I only post scripture, that you would see if you did not just copy and paste the same old, same old when you see my name, or that you either chose to ignore or cannot understand when appropriate and to shore up God's truths that Jesus is God, It is okay and encouraged to pray to Jesus, Predestination is faulty at best, Free Will is by Yahweh's design ,...................................................

Discussing me is unimportant, but discussing the Word of God is my heart's treasure! Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

I would not dream of discussing you. But you do not discuss the bible. If you did you would know what we say to be true. You say..
but discussing the Word of God is my heart's treasure! How so. The Word of God is Jesus, unless you are just not reading the book of John, or maybe your translation does not say so.

Furthermore, your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) nullified the Word of God when you deleted the Word of God from the post which God caused me to compose, so let's review.

Lord Jesus Christ lovingly says "no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (Matthew 11:27) which is similar to "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Yes, He chose His disciples. Are you reincarnated from one of them? Otherwise you were not given this directed to you.

Notice, the only Way (John 14:6) for one to know Jesus is by the cause of the will of the Way.

Notice, further, Jesus mentions not the free-will of man as a contributing factor, at all.

Notice even further that the Lord says “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25) as a prelude to Matthew 11:27 quoted above.

Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another great verse to prov baptisms of babes are appropriate because Jesus says that babes have gotten the word.

Lord Jesus Christ speaks of blessed revelation caused by God inside of us chosen by God to the glory of God!

@ProDeo, @MTMattie, and @civic, see your Free-willian Philosophy contradicting the Holy Word of God in the following.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

Even though YOU say above... "I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ."
I really think you are the one doing the conjuring. Do you need an explanation?

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

The Word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16), and I believe the Word of God (John 1:14).

In our short exchange regarding "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:14-16), your Free-willian Philosophy sums up as:

• God loves Daphne of the world before and after Daphne hears of Christ. Daphne chose to love/believe in Christ, so God rewards Daphne with eternal life.
• God loves Fred of the world before and after Fred hears of Christ. Fred chose not to love/believe in Christ, so God punishes Fred with eternal death.
• Conclusion: the Love of God is so very weak that people like Fred draw the Love of God to burn in hell for eternity according to your Free-willian Philosophy.

The Word of God conclusively proves that Christ's context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus recorded in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

You can continue to believe the word WORLD does not mean WORLD Kermos.

I'm going to post Strong's...I think you like strong's:

Strong's Lexicon kosmos: World, universe, order, adornment​ Original Word: κόσμος Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: kosmos Pronunciation: KOS-mos Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos) Definition: World, universe, order, adornment Meaning: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment. Word Origin: Derived from a primary verb κομέω (koméō), meaning "to take care of" or "to order." Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: - H8398 תֵּבֵל (tebel) – often translated as "world" or "earth." - H776 אֶרֶץ ('erets) – commonly translated as "earth" or "land." Usage: The Greek word "kosmos" primarily refers to an ordered system or arrangement. In the New Testament, it is used to denote the universe as an ordered creation, the earth, the inhabitants of the earth, and the worldly affairs or systems opposed to God. It can also refer to adornment or decoration, as seen in 1 Peter 3:3. Cultural and Historical Background: In ancient Greek culture, "kosmos" was used to describe the universe's order and harmony, reflecting the Greek appreciation for balance and beauty. Philosophers like Pythagoras and Plato used the term to discuss the cosmos's structure and the universe's inherent order. In the New Testament context, "kosmos" often contrasts the divine order with the fallen state of humanity and the world system that stands in opposition to God's kingdom.​

​

It means world, earth, or its inhabitants.
The WORLD mean everything in or on the earth...
everything living on the earth.

The world could also mean a SYSTEM...the order of that system.
But it wouldn't make since for John 3:16
God cannot LOVE A SYSTEM.

Neither Psalm 110:3, Deuteronomy 23:23, Judges 5:1-2, 1 Corinthians 9:16-17, nor 1 Peter 5:2 contain free-will (will=yes and free-will=no and self-will=yes and Christ-image-will=yes and all OT quotes should be derived from "generous" not "volunteer"), and none of the passages contain the Word of God imparting free-will into man capable of successfully choosing God, and you used mistranslations among those passages that makes you feel your Free-willian Philosophy is legitimized, yet the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

No Christian denies that God is at work in us.
Jesus said it was good that He go away in order to send the Holy Spirit.
And yes...God wills for us to do good works to please Him.
EVERY Christian believes this.

You say my verse do not denote free will...
but you don't explain why.
Because YOU state something Kermos....
does not make it so.

Just take Philemon for instance...
Philemon 1:12-14
12 I have sent him back to you in person, that is, sending my very heart,
13 whom I wished to keep with me, so that on your behalf he might minister to me in my imprisonment for the gospel;
14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.


Please exegete Philemon 1:14 and explain how it is NOT speaking to the free will of Philemon.

Now, you run to non-biblical sources because the Word of God is not enough for you! Beware of modern translators distorting early non-bible writings with Free-willian Philosophy.

Well, actually K...I was trying to make you understand that free will ALWAYS existed in the church...
you seem to believe that calvinism was always the norm AND IT HAS NEVER BEEN THE NORM.
I mentioned to you have the absence of free will was taught FOR THE FIRST TIME by a manichaen gnostic
that joined the Catholic Church in the 5th century. And...to boot, the CC, to this day believes that man has free will.

So, yes, I'd say that the theologians of the early church THAT PRESERVED GOD'S WORD FOR YOU...
and that ASSEMBLED THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR YOU,,,,which you are using today....
are a very good source to know what the early church believed about free will.

And you keep mentioning philosophy...
I don't know any philosophy...
I DO know theology and I'm speaking to theology.

If you want to discuss PHILOSOPPHICAL FREE WILL
you'll have to go find someone to discuss it with because it's 2 totally different topics.

You neglected the wonderful Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) in the post to which you replied.

You also keep disregarding the following.

We children of God are the beneficiaries of God working God's love in us Christians, for the Christ of us Christians says “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34).

What do the above have to do with free will??

And WHY would God have to give us ANY commandments
IF HE is the one that is going to choose the saved and the lost
and IF HE is the one that decrees everything from the beginning?

And, John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love).

And, John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”).

Why would God command us to love one another?
Does this mean we have free will !!
Why give a command for something YOU say we cannot do ??

So, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

You do not follow and truly love Christ unless God causes the love.

I agree that it's the Holy Spirit in us that gives us our strength to follow God.

We Christians follow and truly love Christ our Leader, Lord, and, God.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GOD WHO RAINS GRACE ON US HIS CHILDREN!!!

You love to copy and paste don't you?

So does this mean you don't even read my posts to you?
Does this mean that you're not doing any NEW thinking on this subject?

Paul said we are to grow and stop drinking milk and start eating meat.
Try it.

 

[MTMattie]

The Word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16), and I believe the Word of God (John 1:14).

In our short exchange regarding "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:14-16), your Free-willian Philosophy sums up as:

• God loves Daphne of the world before and after Daphne hears of Christ. Daphne chose to love/believe in Christ, so God rewards Daphne with eternal life.
• God loves Fred of the world before and after Fred hears of Christ. Fred chose not to love/believe in Christ, so God punishes Fred with eternal death.
• Conclusion: the Love of God is so very weak that people like Fred draw the Love of God to burn in hell for eternity according to your Free-willian Philosophy.

@GodsGrace ... I am not going to reply to any more to what @Kermos posted because I see a glaring error on his part with this above.

His bullet points make zero sense because his conclusion that "

• the Love of God is so very weak that people like Fred draw the Love of God to burn in hell for eternity according to your Free-willian Philosophy.

absolutely make zero sense because you never said that and I never said that and neither does any person who believe in free will.

But what this does do is make me realize, as it should all, that Kermos has quite a knack for twisting the scripture wording to suit his needs.

If this were not so he would know that "HIS" conclusion was wrong for he would immediately realize that the mustard seed would have saved him.
I truly hate to give the reference on the mustard seed knowing Kermos is likely to come back and blame Fred's loss on it.

He twists words that have no need to be twisted.

There is zero translation I could find that used the words from above... " so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, "
If he cannot even quote the words correctly from his choice of translations how can he even respond here?

The Word of God conclusively proves that Christ's context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus recorded in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

καθαρή ηλιθιότητα

Neither Psalm 110:3, Deuteronomy 23:23, Judges 5:1-2, 1 Corinthians 9:16-17, nor 1 Peter 5:2 contain free-will (will=yes and free-will=no and self-will=yes and Christ-image-will=yes and all OT quotes should be derived from "generous" not "volunteer"), and none of the passages contain the Word of God imparting free-will into man capable of successfully choosing God, and you used mistranslations among those passages that makes you feel your Free-willian Philosophy is legitimized, yet the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Now, you run to non-biblical sources because the Word of God is not enough for you! Beware of modern translators distorting early non-bible writings with Free-willian Philosophy.

You neglected the wonderful Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) in the post to which you replied.

You also keep disregarding the following.

We children of God are the beneficiaries of God working God's love in us Christians, for the Christ of us Christians says “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34).

And, John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love).

And, John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”).

So, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

You do not follow and truly love Christ unless God causes the love.

We Christians follow and truly love Christ our Leader, Lord, and, God.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GOD WHO RAINS GRACE ON US HIS CHILDREN!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace ... I am not going to reply to any more to what @Kermos posted because I see a glaring error on his part with this above.

I have to agree. There's not much point in posting to someone who just repeats the same thing over and over with no end in sight.
Also, the personal insults, after posting a lot on God's love and how we're supposed to love each other, is rather hypocritical.
He keeps bring up the serpent in Exodus and I really don't know why.

His bullet points make zero sense because his conclusion that "

• the Love of God is so very weak that people like Fred draw the Love of God to burn in hell for eternity according to your Free-willian Philosophy.

Agreed.
This is a horrible statement.
First of all we're discussing doctrine here and one of us will be wrong, and we'll find out when we see Jesus.
But to assign those that MIGHT have incorrect doctrine to hell is going way beyond the kind of judging that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 28.
We can judge whether or not someone is sinning...
But we CANNOT judge a person's soul....only God can do that.

He also keep posting about free will PHILOSOPHY....
Free will philosophy is different from biblical free will and I will only address biblical free will since I'm not a philosopher.

absolutely make zero sense because you never said that and I never said that and neither does any person who believe in free will.

Amen to that!

But what this does do is make me realize, as it should all, that Kermos has quite a knack for twisting the scripture wording to suit his needs.

The reformed seem to do this, don't they?
Scripture must be twisted so that IT agrees with THEM.
WE don't need to twist anything because we already agree with it in its plain and simple reading.

If this were not so he would know that "HIS" conclusion was wrong for he would immediately realize that the mustard seed would have saved him.
I truly hate to give the reference on the mustard seed knowing Kermos is likely to come back and blame Fred's loss on it.

Who is Fred??
I must have missed something...

He twists words that have no need to be twisted.

There is zero translation I could find that used the words from above... " so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, "
If he cannot even quote the words correctly from his choice of translations how can he even respond here?


View attachment 1483 καθαρή ηλιθιότητα

It's what HE would want John 3:16 to say,,,
but, unfortunately for him, it does not state what he THINKS it does.
It just plainly states that everyone who believes will be saved.
Simple.

Funny emoji !
Yeah. It's a battle....

 

[MTMattie]

I have to agree. There's not much point in posting to someone who just repeats the same thing over and over with no end in sight.
Also, the personal insults, after posting a lot on God's love and how we're supposed to love each other, is rather hypocritical.
He keeps bring up the serpent in Exodus and I really don't know why.

Agreed.
This is a horrible statement.
First of all we're discussing doctrine here and one of us will be wrong, and we'll find out when we see Jesus.
But to assign those that MIGHT have incorrect doctrine to hell is going way beyond the kind of judging that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 28.
We can judge whether or not someone is sinning...
But we CANNOT judge a person's soul....only God can do that.

He also keep posting about free will PHILOSOPHY....
Free will philosophy is different from biblical free will and I will only address biblical free will since I'm not a philosopher.

Amen to that!

The reformed seem to do this, don't they?
Scripture must be twisted so that IT agrees with THEM.
WE don't need to twist anything because we already agree with it in its plain and simple reading.

Who is Fred??
I must have missed something...

You did.

His reply #6510 .. I quote

In our short exchange regarding "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:14-16), your Free-willian Philosophy sums up as:

• God loves Daphne of the world before and after Daphne hears of Christ. Daphne chose to love/believe in Christ, so God rewards Daphne with eternal life.
• God loves Fred of the world before and after Fred hears of Christ. Fred chose not to love/believe in Christ, so God punishes Fred with eternal death.
• Conclusion: the Love of God is so very weak that people like Fred draw the Love of God to burn in hell for eternity according to your Free-willian Philosophy.

It's what HE would want John 3:16 to say,,,
but, unfortunately for him, it does not state what he THINKS it does.
It just plainly states that everyone who believes will be saved.
Simple.

Funny emoji !
Yeah. It's a battle....

A lot of people use the New World Translation which is the JW bible and that one is horrible with the twisting of words.

I always look when something does not read right ( and I did here also) to see if it came from there. It didnt which means that somehow he "conjured" up things to suit himself.

 

[civic]

This was my simple question -

Help me out, when you sin, it's not your fault?

You returned no answer, instead a load of Gish gallop.

Furthermore you made false accusations
1. You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ
2. so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
3. Your heart makes false statements about God and man

And you conclude all that based on a simple question.

Furthermore you contradict yourself
I use free will to mean man choosing toward God

Written using my God given free will.

yep what he said

 

[GodsGrace]

This was my simple question -

Help me out, when you sin, it's not your fault?

You returned no answer, instead a load of Gish gallop.

Furthermore you made false accusations
1. You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ
2. so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
3. Your heart makes false statements about God and man

And you conclude all that based on a simple question.

Furthermore you contradict yourself
I use free will to mean man choosing toward God

Written using my God given free will.

Hey ProDeo....
agreed.
Just want to say that yes, you use your free will which God gave to you.

This:
Biblically speaking and theologically speaking, free will has a very simple meaning:
It's the ability to freely choose between two moral options with no outside coercion.

If you want to know more...then you have to study Libertarian Free Will...the biblical explantion.

It seems to me that K is always speaking about philosophy....that's a whole different topic and I doubt he even
understands that since he doesn't sound like a philosopher...
I defer to Wm Lane Craig!

 

[Kermos]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU DEAR LORD GOD. OUR FATHER WHO INSTRUCTS WITH SUCH UNDERSTANDABLE TRANSLATIONS IN YOUR HOLY WORD.

Please Heavenly Father help those who only see what they want to see, even with other posters posting what one has said but get jumped over to jumped on one with a copy and paste that if I thought you were using some of your great humor could well believe that a little AI is at work here.

And Heavenly Father thank you, thank you thank you for your gift of ignore. You are wondrously wise to let your servant know when it is time for a time out.

Amen

Have you heard of The Great Commission? I'm listening as my Master speaks:

​

All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”​

​

(Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 28:18-20)​

​

Thank You, Father of Heaven and Earth, for Your glorious Word of God!

God has me contrast your word against the Word of God, here:

the word of MTMattie		The Word of God
John 15 have nothing to do with you or me (MTMattie, proof post #6,395).		teaching them to observe all that I commanded you (Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 28/20).

You vehemently believe that you are not a friend of Jesus thus making yourself an enemy of Jesus because your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me" (proof post #6,395) thus you self-willingly (2 Peter 2:9-10) exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16). I reject your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me". Lord Jesus, you chose me as your friend, and I thank you, my Lord and Savior! King Jesus, You know I am weak, but You are strong!

You conveyed that you put the Word of God, which our loving Holy Father in Heaven caused me to post, on your ignore in your very public prayer that you posted. Putting the Word of God on ignore is not the will of Christ's Father in Heaven. This same Christ of us Christians declares "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48). We Christians do not put the Christ's sayings on ignore.

The Word of God issues these wonderful blessings to all believers in all time:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

And I am forevermore thankful to Lord Jesus Christ!

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Again, you have made it very clear with your amplification of "John 15:16 WAS NEVER MEANT FOR ALL PEOPLE" that you deny being a friend of Lord Jesus because you self-willingly (2 Peter 2:9-10) exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16) as recorded in post #6,407.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE YOU, MY FATHER IN HEAVEN, FOR YOU ALONE ARE WORTHY OF PRAISE!!! ALL GLORY TO JESUS!!!

 

[civic]

Have you heard of The Great Commission? I'm listening as my Master speaks:

​

All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”​

​

(Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 28:18-20)​

​

Thank You, Father of Heaven and Earth, for Your glorious Word of God!

God has me contrast your word against the Word of God, here:

the word of MTMattie		The Word of God
John 15 have nothing to do with you or me (MTMattie, proof post #6,395).		teaching them to observe all that I commanded you (Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 28/20).

You vehemently believe that you are not a friend of Jesus thus making yourself an enemy of Jesus because your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me" (proof post #6,395) thus you self-willingly (2 Peter 2:9-10) exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16). I reject your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me". Lord Jesus, you chose me as your friend, and I thank you, my Lord and Savior! King Jesus, You know I am weak, but You are strong!

You conveyed that you put the Word of God, which our loving Holy Father in Heaven caused me to post, on your ignore in your very public prayer that you posted. Putting the Word of God on ignore is not the will of Christ's Father in Heaven. This same Christ of us Christians declares "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48). We Christians do not put the Christ's sayings on ignore.

The Word of God issues these wonderful blessings to all believers in all time:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

And I am forevermore thankful to Lord Jesus Christ!

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Again, you have made it very clear with your amplification of "John 15:16 WAS NEVER MEANT FOR ALL PEOPLE" that you deny being a friend of Lord Jesus because you self-willingly (2 Peter 2:9-10) exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16) as recorded in post #6,407.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE YOU, MY FATHER IN HEAVEN, FOR YOU ALONE ARE WORTHY OF PRAISE!!! ALL GLORY TO JESUS!!!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Fatalism which is your theology is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

 

[MTMattie]

You vehemently believe that you are not a friend of Jesus thus making yourself an enemy of Jesus because your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me" (proof post #6,395) thus you self-willingly (2 Peter 2:9-10) exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16).

I was forced to cut the following posts due to size. If you want to read them in full just look them up.... but the key point I have made red.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(16) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.—Comp. Luke 6:12 et seq., and in this Gospel John 6:70; John 13:18. The thought of His love for them, which had exalted them from the position of slaves to friends, from fishermen to Apostles, is made to remind them again (John 15:17) of the duty of love to each other. In John 15:20 he reminds them of the words which accompanied His own act of humility in washing their feet (John 13:15-16). The chiefest Apostle owed all to His gift and election, and should be ready to sacrifice all for his brethren, as He Himself was.
And ordained you.—The word “ordained” has acquired a special sense in modern English which is here misleading, and it will be better, therefore, to read appointed.



Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
15:9-17 Those whom God loves as a Father, may despise the hatred of all the world. As the Father loved Christ, who was most worthy, so he loved his disciples, who were unworthy. All that love the Saviour should continue in their love to him, and take all occasions to show it. The joy of the hypocrite is but for a moment, but the joy of those who abide in Christ's love is a continual feast. They are to show their love to him by keeping his commandments. If the same power that first shed abroad the love of Christ's in our hearts, did not keep us in that love, we should not long abide in it. Christ's love to us should direct us to love each other. He speaks as about to give many things in charge, yet names this only; it includes many duties.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Ye have not chosen me - The word here translated "chosen" is that from which is derived the word "elect," and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mark 13:20; Matthew 24:22, Matthew 24:24, Matthew 24:31; Colossians 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See John 6:70; also Matthew 4:18-22. He thus shows them that his love for them was pure and disinterested; that it commenced when they had no affection for him; that it was not a matter of obligation on his part, and that therefore it placed them under more tender and sacred obligations to be entirely devoted to his service. The same may be said of all who are endowed with talents of any kind, or raised to any office in the church or the state. It is not that they have originated these talents, or laid God under obligation. What they have they owe to his sovereign goodness, and they are bound to devote all to his service. Equally true is this of all Christians. It was not that by nature they were more inclined than others to seek God, or that they had any native goodness to recommend them to him, but it was because he graciously inclined them by his Holy Spirit to seek him; because, in the language of the Episcopal and Methodist articles of religion, "The grace of Christ prevented them;" that is, went before them, commenced the work of their personal salvation, and thus God in sovereign mercy chose them as His own. Whatever Christians, then, possess, they owe to God, and by the most tender and sacred ties they are bound to be his followers.
I have chosen you - To be apostles. Yet all whom he now addressed were true disciples. Judas had left them; and when Jesus says he had chosen them to bear fruit, it may mean, also, that he had "chosen them to salvation, through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth," 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Ordained you - Literally, I have placed you, appointed you, set you apart. It does not mean that he had done this by any formal public act of the imposition of hands, as we now use the word, but that he had designated or appointed them to this work, Luke 6:13-16; Matthew 10:2-5.



Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
16. Ye have not chosen me, but I … you—a wholesale memento after the lofty things He had just said about their mutual indwelling, and the unreservedness of the friendship they had been admitted to.
ordained—appointed.

you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit—that is, give yourselves to it.

and that your fruit should remain—showing itself to be an imperishable and ever growing principle. (Compare Pr 4:18; 2Jo 8).

that whatsoever ye shall ask, &c.—(See on [1859]Joh 15:7).

Matthew Poole's Commentary
Ye have not chosen me to be your Lord, Master, Saviour,

but I have chosen and ordained you; so we have it in our translation; but the Greek is, eyhka, I have set you, or placed you in a station. What choosing Christ here speaks of is doubted amongst various divines. Some think that our Saviour here speaks of his choice of them to the apostleship, as Luke 6:13 John 6:70: those who thus understand it, understand by going and bringing forth fruit, the apostles’ going out, preaching, and baptizing all nations, bringing forth fruit amongst the Gentiles. But others understand it of election to eternal life, and the means necessary to it; for our Saviour brings this as an argument of his greatest love: Judas was in the first sense chosen, yet not beloved with any such love: and this seemeth to be favoured by John 13:18, I speak not of you all; I know whom I have chosen: and certain it is, Augustine and others of the ancients from hence proved the freedom of election and special grace. Both senses may be united, for the eleven (to whom Christ was now speaking) were chosen in both senses; they were chosen for this end, to bring forth fruit amongst the Gentiles, turning many to righteousness, and that they might bring forth the fruit of holiness, in obedience to the gospel of Christ. Yea, not only to bring forth fruit, but that they might persevere in bringing forth fruit; and that thus doing, they might have a freedom of access to the throne of grace, and obtain whatsoever they should ask of the Father, in the name, for the merits, and through the mediation of the Lord

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,.... Not but that they had made choice of him as their Lord and Master, Saviour and Redeemer; but not first, he was before hand with them; he chose them, before they chose him; so that his choice of them was entirely free, did not arise from any character, motive, or condition in them: the allusion is to a custom of the Jews, the reverse of which Christ acted; with whom it was usual for disciples to choose their own masters, and not masters their disciples: hence that advice of R. Joshuah ben Perachiah, said (r) to be the master of Jesus of Nazareth,
(s), "make", provide, or chose "thyself a master", and get thyself a companion.''

Those words in Sol 2:16; "my beloved is mine, and I am his", are thus paraphrased by the Jews (t);

"he hath chosen me, and I have chosen him:''

which is not amiss, provided the latter choice is thought to be by virtue, and in consequence of the former; if not, our Lord directly opposes the words and sense. This may be understood both of election to salvation, and of choice to the office of apostleship; in both which Christ was first, or chose them before they chose him, that good part, which shall never be taken away; for as they were chosen in him, so by him, before the foundation of the world; being as early loved by him, as by his Father; and in consequence thereof, were chosen by him, for his people and peculiar treasure; he first chose and called them to be his disciples and apostles, to follow him, preach his Gospel, and become fishers of men; and clothed them with full power and authority to exercise their high office:

and ordained you; which may design either ordination to eternal life, or apostleship, before the world began; as Jeremiah was ordained to be a prophet, before he was born; or else the investiture of them with that office, and with all gifts and graces necessary for the discharge of it; for when he called and sent forth his disciples to preach the Gospel, he is said to "ordain" them, Mark 3:14; and the rather this may be meant here, because the former is designed by his choosing them; or he set them, or planted them in himself, a fruitful soil, that they might shoot up and bear much fruit, as it follows:



Meyer's NT Commentary
John 15:16. Along with this dignity, however, of being Jesus’ friends, they were not to forget their dependence on Him, and their destiny therewith appointed.

ἐξελέξασθε … ἐξελεζάμην] as Master … as disciples, which is understood of itself from the historical relation, and is also to be gathered from the word chosen (John 6:70, John 13:18; Acts 1:2). Each of them was a σκεῦος ἐκλογῆς of Christ (Acts 9:15); in each the initiative of this peculiar relation lay not on his but on Christ’s side. Hence not to be taken merely in a general sense of the selection for the fellowship of love (Euth. Zigabenus, Luther, and several others, including Luthardt, Lange).



Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
16. Ye have not, &c.] Better, Ye chose Me not, but I chose you: ‘Ye’ and ‘I’ are emphatic; there is no emphasis on ‘Me.’ The reference is to their election to be Apostles, as the very word used seems to imply (comp. John 6:70, John 13:18; Acts 1:2); therefore the aorist as referring to a definite act in the past should be preserved in translation.

ordained you] Better, appointed you (as 2 Timothy 1:11 and Hebrews 1:2), in order to avoid an unreal connexion with ordination in the ecclesiastical sense. The same word used in the same sense as here is rendered ‘set’ in Acts 13:47 and 1 Corinthians 12:28, ‘ordained’ 1 Timothy 2:7, and ‘made’ Acts 20:28.



Pulpit Commentary
Verse 16. - From the thirteenth to the fifteenth verse, our Lord, in a brief digression, has justified a portion of the great commandment of mutual love. That love is to correspond with his love to the disciples, and to explain his self-sacrifice to them; he proves to them that they are his "friends," and therefore the objects of his dying love. Then the appeal is still further clenched by showing the origin and purport of his friendship for them. Ye did not choose me (ἐξελέξασθε... ἐξελεξάμην are middle, "you chose... I chose... for yourselves or for myself"), but I chose you. I selected you as individuals, not excluding thereby a gracious choice of other souls; I destined you to accomplish work dear to me and essential to my kingdom. Christ has already told them that he must "go away" from' them to the Father, and that they "cannot follow him now, but afterwards;" and he has also convinced them that, though he go away, he will "come again, and abide with them," and also that "severed" from him they can "do nothing." Consequently when he adds, I appointed you (see 1 Corinthians 12:28; 1 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 1:2; Acts 20:28, for similar use of τιθέναι) as my apostles and representatives, to do work in my Name, there is no contradiction in his adding, that ye should go forth, depart into the world with my message and in my Name, as I am "departing" to the Father, to rule over you from a higher and more august position. And bear fruit. A passing reference to the imagery of the first part of the chapter, showing that their "going forth or away" upon this mission would not separate them from his Spirit, or divide the link without which they could bear no fruit at all. The "fruit" may here, in its issues, suggest another class of ideas. In the first case the "fruit" was the "fruit of the Spirit," but here it would seem to be the abiding consequence of the "greater works" which they would be called upon to do. This rich fruit includes all the victories they were to win over souls, and all the effects of their ministry. "Fruit" in either case is only valuable when it is utilized by the Husbandman and according to his purpose. "Fruit" is a Divine self-exhaustion of the living organism; it does no good to the branch nor to the stem; it is the sacred property of the husbandman, whether for his own joy or for fresh seed. In this case your fruit will abide for ever, not in the branch, but in the Father's hands, that (ἵνα) whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my Name, he may give it you. It now becomes a question whether the second ἵνα introduces a clause which is co-ordinate with the former or one logically depending on the preceding. Meyer concludes the first, viz. that the granting of prayer brings about the fruit and its continuance (so De Wette, Lucke, Stier, Godet); and Olshausen maintains the second, viz. that by going and bringing forth fruit we enter into that relation with God from which proceeds the prayer in the name of the Son which the Father will grant, thus bringing the passage into close relation with John 14:13 and John 16:23. Hengstenberg says, "By their fruit they would show themselves to be true disciples of Christ, and to such the Father can deny nothing." But Westcott and Lange endeavor to combine both ideas. The co-ordination of the two clauses requires the inversion of their order, or the introduction of καὶ before the second ἵνα.

You do not read. Can you read? You do not understand. Why don't you understand?

All of these commentaries show that only the disciples were chosen. Jesus had to have them for they had a job to do. They did not come knocking on his door looking for a job. Jesus chose them....

You are stuck on the same verse that shows you unable to make your point from elsewhere in the bible. But this is bad
interpretation on your part.