An Article on free will

[Jim]

Hes not talking about physical hearing, they could physically hear just fine, the hearing is spiritual, they could not spiritually hear, these are spiritual matters, not carnal, also hearing denotes also spiritually understanding the word, its the greek word akouō:

1. to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2. to hear
   1. to attend to, consider what is or has been said
   2. to understand, perceive the sense of what is said

The Greek word hear, ἀκούω [akouō] carries no "spiritual" content.

Thayer Definition:
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
2b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
2c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3) to hear something
3a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one’s presence
3b) to get by hearing learn
3c) a thing comes to one’s ears, to find out, learn
3d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
3e) to comprehend, to understand

So where does hearing come from ? Man has it not by nature sense we are spiritually dead and deaf

It most definitely is a natural sense. Spiritually deaf is a false Calvinist man-created concept to support their false doctrines. The Bible never says that anyone is deaf in trespasses and sins. Only Calvinists say that.

 

[Duane]

“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” - Romans 1:20

As people reject God and choose to live by what they think is right, they drift further and further off course. So far away that eventually God gives them over to their immoral thinking and behaviors.

 

[MTMattie]

Hes not talking about physical hearing, they could physically hear just fine, the hearing is spiritual, they could not spiritually hear, these are spiritual matters, not carnal, also hearing denotes also spiritually understanding the word, its the greek word akouō:

1. to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
   1. to attend to, consider what is or has been said
   2. to understand, perceive the sense of what is said

So where does hearing come from ? Man has it not by nature sense we are spiritually dead and deaf

Those that were not supposed to would not.

"So where does hearing come from ? Man has it not by nature sense we are spiritually dead and deaf"

This is wrong.

Do you even understand the following or better yet why???? ( from assorted commentaries and cross references...)

Belief and Unbelief
…39For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: 40“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.” 41Isaiah said these things because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about Him.…
Berean Standard Bible ·


Cross References
Isaiah 6:9-10
And He replied: “Go and tell this people, ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’ / Make the hearts of this people calloused; deafen their ears and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.”

Matthew 13:14-15
In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. / For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’

Acts 28:26-27
‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.” / For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’

Romans 11:8
as it is written: “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see, and ears that could not hear, to this very day.”

2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed.

Mark 4:12
so that, ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.’”

Luke 8:10
He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’

Romans 1:21
For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, / in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

Hebrews 3:12-13
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. / But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.

Ezekiel 12:2
“Son of man, you are living in a rebellious house. They have eyes to see but do not see, and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious house.

Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a mind to understand, eyes to see, or ears to hear.

Jeremiah 5:21
“Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear.

Isaiah 29:10
For the LORD has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep. He has shut your eyes, O prophets; He has covered your heads, O seers.

Isaiah 44:18
They do not comprehend or discern, for He has shut their eyes so they cannot see and closed their minds so they cannot understand.


Treasury of Scripture
He has blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

hath.

John 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.





Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Where does the ability to hear come from ? All cannot hear Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Do you understand the word cannot as in cannot hear ?

Over and over again with you..... Repeat. Repeat.

Answer my questions or not. I'm done with you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Hes not talking about physical hearing, they could physically hear just fine, the hearing is spiritual, they could not spiritually hear, these are spiritual matters, not carnal, also hearing denotes also spiritually understanding the word, its the greek word akouō:

1. to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2. to hear
   
   1. to attend to, consider what is or has been said
   2. to understand, perceive the sense of what is said

So where does hearing come from ? Man has it not by nature sense we are spiritually dead and deaf

Like you.... it goes in one ear and out the other because you find no value in what you hear. It not that you can't understand. You don't care.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Greek word hear, ἀκούω [akouō] carries no "spiritual" content.

Thayer Definition:
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
2b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
2c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3) to hear something
3a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one’s presence
3b) to get by hearing learn
3c) a thing comes to one’s ears, to find out, learn
3d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
3e) to comprehend, to understand

It most definitely is a natural sense. Spiritually deaf is a false Calvinist man-created concept to support their false doctrines. The Bible never says that anyone is deaf in trespasses and sins. Only Calvinists say that.

Absolutely. It is just another evil tactic/heart that seeks to claim God while preventing others to coming to God. That is what the children of Israel had been taught and what they become. They became just like their fathers who rejected Jesus Christ.

 

[Kermos]

(Strong's 4102 - pistis - faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity - BibleHub.com)

Fidelity, that is, faithfulness.

(ASV) Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

(NASB) Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

(NIV) Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law

(NKJV) Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Utter nonsense!!

The Faith, not faith. The Faith is the Way, the Plan of God for Salvation, the religious process whereby God can save us.

Lord Jesus Christ is the Author and Perfecter of the Faith (Hebrews 12:2), but you free-willians, including @Eternally-Grateful and @civic and @MTMattie because of your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) "Like" in @Jim's post, you free-willians believe that your flesh authored and/or perfected your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) faith to chose the Sovereign God Jesus Christ, but, in Truth (John 14:6), you daringly revile King Jesus of the Kingdom of God for the Apostle declares "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Fidelity is synonymous with faith with respect to the Greek word πίστις (Strong’s 4102 – pistis – faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity – BibleHub.com); therefore, the exact concept is faith in:

​

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.​

(Galatians 5:22-23)​

​

Faith = FAITH = faith = belief

πίστις = πίστις = πίστις = πίστις

The English case does not impact the Greek case.

Therefore, faith in Jesus whom the Father has sent is a Fruit of the Spirit without ever being your work of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21) as you all place faith in Jesus squarely in your own fleshly free-will to some degree, yet the King of Glory declares “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

By using your word “fidelity” in Galatians 5:22-23 instead of faith, then we find you all living in infidelity to the Holy Spirit’s fruit in your claim that your fidelity/faith is a work of your flesh.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

 

[MTMattie]

Lord Jesus Christ is the Author and Perfecter of the Faith (Hebrews 12:2), but you free-willians, including @Eternally-Grateful and @civic and @MTMattie because of your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) "Like" in @Jim's post, you free-willians believe that your flesh authored and/or perfected your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) faith to chose the Sovereign God Jesus Christ, but, in Truth (John 14:6), you daringly revile King Jesus of the Kingdom of God for the Apostle declares "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Fidelity is synonymous with faith with respect to the Greek word πίστις (Strong’s 4102 – pistis – faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity – BibleHub.com); therefore, the exact concept is faith in:

​

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.​

(Galatians 5:22-23)​

​

Faith = FAITH = faith = belief

πίστις = πίστις = πίστις = πίστις

The English case does not impact the Greek case.

Therefore, faith in Jesus whom the Father has sent is a Fruit of the Spirit without ever being your work of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21) as you all place faith in Jesus squarely in your own fleshly free-will to some degree, yet the King of Glory declares “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

By using your word “fidelity” in Galatians 5:22-23 instead of faith, then we find you all living in infidelity to the Holy Spirit’s fruit in your claim that your fidelity/faith is a work of your flesh.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

So many words that say nothing at all. For the author is obviously one of those in Isaiah 6: 9-10 which proclaims

And He replied: “Go and tell this people, ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’ / Make the hearts of this people calloused; deafen their ears and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.”

Or Mathew 13: 14-15 which also proclaims

In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. / For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’

 

[Jim]

Lord Jesus Christ is the Author and Perfecter of the Faith (Hebrews 12:2), but you free-willians, including @Eternally-Grateful and @civic and @MTMattie because of your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) "Like" in @Jim's post, you free-willians believe that your flesh authored and/or perfected your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) faith to chose the Sovereign God Jesus Christ, but, in Truth (John 14:6), you daringly revile King Jesus of the Kingdom of God for the Apostle declares "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Fidelity is synonymous with faith with respect to the Greek word πίστις (Strong’s 4102 – pistis – faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity – BibleHub.com); therefore, the exact concept is faith in:

​

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.​

(Galatians 5:22-23)​

​

Faith = FAITH = faith = belief

πίστις = πίστις = πίστις = πίστις

The English case does not impact the Greek case.

But it does. There is no Greek equivalent to the English word faith. The Greek for faith is πιστεύω ἐπί [believe upon] or πιστεύω εἰς [believe unto] or πιστεύω ἐν [believe in]. In some cases the upon, unto or in is understood. But the distinction is between believing something and believing in something. Believing is mental assent, believing in, i.e., faith, is mental assent plus trust or confidence.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Hearing the preacher is a requirement.

lol.. So all the people who were saved and never heard one preacher before hand are lost?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

This is a contradictory argument: Letting/allowing God to do the job he came to do is doing something. Nothing happens to me unless I “in faith let God do the job he came to do.”

This does not mean I am now deserving of salvation, or that I’ve backed God into a corner and forced him to do something that he doesn’t want to do. It simply means that God will not give us anything that we don’t want to receive. Human reception is an act of the will, and that is “doing something”, just like my wife agreeing to marry me is her doing something to allow a marriage to occur. (Perhaps that is why God uses marriage to illustrate our relationship with Him?)


Doug

so If I understand

Not doing something equals doing something.

This might be why so many of the lost seeking Christ get so confused.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” - Romans 1:20

As people reject God and choose to live by what they think is right, they drift further and further off course. So far away that eventually God gives them over to their immoral thinking and behaviors.

Amen,

In grace God allowed them to continue on their downward spiral. He could snap his fingers and they would be gone (in the grace) but he allows them

But as paul said. they still have no excuse.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Over and over again with you..... Repeat. Repeat.

Answer my questions or not. I'm done with you.

its best to walk away. He will drive you crazy with his simple questions that have no bearing on the conversation, as he keeps pushing them at you as if they matter

 

[praise_yeshua]

lol.. So all the people who were saved and never heard one preacher before hand are lost?

That is a good question. How do you see preaching? When anyone reads the Scriptures they are "hearing" preaching.

No one gets saved without hearing/consuming the words that come from the Gospel.

 

[praise_yeshua]

its best to walk away. He will drive you crazy with his simple questions that have no bearing on the conversation, as he keeps pushing them at you as if they matter

He has always done this. I put him on ignore and take him off. I do this because I have hope he will actually listen one day. He came over from the Matt Slick forum at CARM. I try different "angles" at times to try and get him to listen. He isn't listening. Thusly, he doesn't understand.

 

[Dizerner]

so If I understand, Not doing something equals doing something.

This might be why so many of the lost seeking Christ get so confused.

Right.

So by this logic, if I see a stop sign, and just decide to "not do anything" and keep going, then that wasn't doing something.

Sometimes the most significant things we do in life, is our refusal to do what we should, and that is "doing something."

 

[praise_yeshua]

Right.

So by this logic, if I see a stop sign, and just decide to "not do anything" and keep going, then that wasn't doing something.

Sometimes the most significant things we do in life, is our refusal to do what we should, and that is "doing something."

I would say there is purpose to be found in inaction.

There are many times that God doesn't intervene in our lives. Even when we hurt, God doesn't always take that pain away from us. He might make it tolerable but what isn't tolerable when HE is with us.

 

[praise_yeshua]

But it does. There is no Greek equivalent to the English word faith. The Greek for faith is πιστεύω ἐπί [believe upon] or πιστεύω εἰς [believe unto] or πιστεύω ἐν [believe in]. In some cases the upon, unto or in is understood. But the distinction is between believing something and believing in something. Believing is mental assent, believing in, i.e., faith, is mental assent plus trust or confidence.

The actions of "faith" are defined in many words found throughout the Scriptures.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Many people try to insist that verse 1 defines faith... yet verse #1 just simply says that faith has substance and that is the substance of hope. You need more than this to understand faith. That is the purpose of verse #6.

 

[civic]

Right.

So by this logic, if I see a stop sign, and just decide to "not do anything" and keep going, then that wasn't doing something.

Sometimes the most significant things we do in life, is our refusal to do what we should, and that is "doing something."

yes its why there are sins of commission and omission.

 

[civic]

The actions of "faith" are defined in many words found throughout the Scriptures.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Many people try to insist that verse 1 defines faith... yet verse #1 just simply says that faith has substance and that is the substance of hope. You need more than this to understand faith. That is the purpose of verse #6.

yes our faith has evidence.