An Article on free will

[civic]

Uh--
Isa_45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’

Rom_14:11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”

Rom 14:10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
Rom 14:11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”
Rom 14:12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
In Romans 14:10-12, the context revolves around the theme of judgment and accountability before God. The passage addresses the issue of believers passing judgment on one another and emphasizes the importance of refraining from despising or judging others. It highlights the ultimate truth that all individuals will stand before the judgment seat of God, where each person will give an account of themselves.
The reference to every knee bowing and every tongue confessing to God in verse 11 underscores the universal acknowledgment of God's sovereignty and authority. This serves as a reminder that all individuals, regardless of their beliefs or actions, will ultimately recognize and submit to God.
Overall, these verses encourage believers to focus on their own accountability before God rather than passing judgment on others. It emphasizes humility, respect for one another, and the understanding that ultimately, each person will answer to God for their own actions and choices.

Isa 45:22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
Isa 45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’
Isa 45:24 “Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed all who were incensed against him.

In Isaiah 45:22-24, the context emphasizes the exclusive sovereignty and salvation offered by God. The passage begins with a call to all people from every corner of the earth to turn to God for salvation, highlighting His uniqueness as the one true God with no equal.
Verse 23 continues with a declaration by God Himself, affirming His authority and righteousness. It includes a solemn oath that every knee will bow and every tongue will swear allegiance to Him. This proclamation underscores the universal acknowledgment of God's supreme power and the ultimate submission of all creation to Him.
The passage concludes in verse 24 with a statement emphasizing that true righteousness and strength are found only in the Lord. Those who oppose or rebel against Him will ultimately come before Him and be put to shame. This serves as a reminder of God's justice and the inevitable accountability that all individuals will face before Him.
Overall, these verses convey a message of God's unmatched sovereignty, His call for all to turn to Him for salvation, and the assurance that in Him alone lies true righteousness and strength. It underscores the universal submission and allegiance that all creation will ultimately offer to God.

Have you thought about how the N.T. portrays salvation, eternal life and in whom one must place their faith ?

Its Christ, not the Father. Christ is the One Lord, the Only Lord that must be confessed to be saved. There is salvation in no other name but His. He alone is the Savior of the world. So when the OT is referencing those passages, they are about the Son, not the Father. Kurios in the Greek N.T. and LXX ( YHWH in the O.T. ) is the One Lord/YHWH we must believe in to be saved. All the Apostles preached Christ for Salvation.

Just some food for thought. This is very problematic for the unitarian.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Johann]

Have you thought about how the N.T. portrays salvation, eternal life and in whom one must place their faith ?

Its Christ, not the Father. Christ is the One Lord, the Only Lord that must be confessed to be saved. There is salvation in no other name but His. He alone is the Savior of the world. So when the OT is referencing those passages, they are about the Son, not the Father. Kurios in the Greek N.T. and LXX ( YHWH in the O.T. ) is the One Lord/YHWH we must believe in to be saved. All the Apostles preached Christ for Salvation.

Just some food for thought. This is very problematic for the unitarian.

hope this helps !!!

Let's approach this holistically brother-
Jesus as the sole mediator of salvation:
John 14:6 - "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'"

Acts 4:12 - "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Titus 2:13 - "Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus."
Father and Son as coequal and coeternal:

John 1:1-3 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."

Colossians 2:9 - "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the deity bodily."

Philippians 2:5-6 - "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped."

Confession of Christ as the basis for salvation:
Romans 10:9-10 - "That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

1 Corinthians 12:3 - "Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit."

Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism:
Unitarianism denies the divinity of Christ and holds that God is singular, whereas Trinitarianism maintains that God exists eternally as three distinct yet equally divine Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Regarding the usage of kurios in the Greek New Testament and the Septuagint (LXX) and YHWH in the Old Testament, it is essential to acknowledge that the Greek word kurios often corresponds to the Hebrew YHWH in the Old Testament. Thus, the New Testament's usage of kurios points back to the Old Testament's usage of YHWH, indicating that the One Lord referred to in the New Testament is the same One Lord mentioned throughout the Old Testament.
In conclusion, the New Testament consistently portrays Jesus Christ as the sole mediator of salvation, the One Lord who must be believed in and confessed to obtain eternal life. The Father and Son share equal status as divine beings, and the Old Testament's usage of YHWH corresponds to the New Testament's usage of kurios, pointing to the same One Lord—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

And now to answer your statement-a preponderous thought!

The use of "Kurios" in the Greek New Testament (N.T.) and the Septuagint (LXX) as a translation for "YHWH" in the Old Testament (O.T.) has theological implications regarding the identification of Jesus with Yahweh. Here are some key points from the search results to address this issue:
Identification of Jesus as Yahweh:
The Greek word "Kurios" is used in the New Testament to refer to Jesus, and it is argued that this identification implies Jesus' deity

The New Testament writers, by using "Kurios" for Christ, connect Him with the divine name Yahweh from the Old Testament

The consistent use of "Kurios" in the New Testament manuscripts when translating the name of God from the Old Testament suggests a deliberate identification of Jesus with Yahweh

Substitution of YHWH with Kurios:
While some early manuscripts show YHWH written in Hebrew characters within the Greek text, later Christian copies replaced it with "Kurios," indicating a shift in practice over time

Early Greek manuscripts of the Old Testament did not necessarily render YHWH as "Kurios," but rather retained the divine name in Hebrew or paleo-Hebrew letters

Theological Implications:
The use of "Kurios" for Jesus in the New Testament reflects a theological understanding that equates Him with Yahweh, emphasizing His divine nature and authority

This identification underscores the belief that Jesus is not merely a human figure but shares in the divine attributes and functions traditionally associated with Yahweh

In conclusion, the usage of "Kurios" for Jesus in the New Testament, corresponding to "YHWH" in the Old Testament, signifies a theological connection between Jesus and Yahweh, highlighting Jesus' divine nature and authority as central to Christian belief.
J.

 

[Kermos]

You did not answer the question

So Christians never sin or God desires sin ? Which one?

You demand only "option A" or "option B" without recognition of an "option C" or more options. God causes me to address the spirit of your questions, that is, your questions (embedded statements) define you, TomL.

God caused me to address your questions in post #353 with Romans 9:18-23 and in post #420 with Romans 7:14-20.

Your questions are addressed.

Yes happy now

In context it was Christ words to the disciples messengers he had chosen

Nothing there concerning on what basis he chose them

I wouldn't say "happy", but your answer leaves room for a follow-up post; in the meantime, I encourage you to read the following Word of God.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death" (John 8:51).

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15).

"He who does not love Me does not keep My words" (John 14:24)

"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48)

"by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned" (Matthew 12:37)

"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes] nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:16-20).

"everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and [yet] it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock" (Matthew 7:24-25).

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven [will enter]. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" (Matthew 7:21-23) "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell - and great was its fall" (Matthew 7:26-27).

Later he stated they were given to him by the father who they belonged to

John 17:6–9 (ESV) — 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

How they became the father's ins not stated

Nothing there about unconditional selection to salvation either

you have to assume that

"I and the Father are One" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 10:30), so Almighty God says "Yours they were, and you gave them to me" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 17:6); therefore, your "How they became the father's ins not stated" along with your free-willian philosophy is false because King Jesus says with unrestricted application "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) as well as "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned by the Word of God above are to all believers in all time! All praise and glory and honor be to the Sovereign Lord and God Jesus Christ!!!

 

[Johann]

You demand only "option A" or "option B" without recognition of an "option C" or more options. God causes me to address the spirit of your questions, that is, your questions (embedded statements) define you, TomL.

God caused me to address your questions in post #353 with Romans 9:18-23 and in post #420 with Romans 7:14-20.

Your questions are addressed.



I wouldn't say "happy", but your answer leaves room for a follow-up post; in the meantime, I encourage you to read the following Word of God.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death" (John 8:51).

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15).

"He who does not love Me does not keep My words" (John 14:24)

"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48)

"by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned" (Matthew 12:37)

"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes] nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:16-20).

"everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and [yet] it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock" (Matthew 7:24-25).

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven [will enter]. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" (Matthew 7:21-23) "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell - and great was its fall" (Matthew 7:26-27).



"I and the Father are One" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 10:30), so Almighty God says "Yours they were, and you gave them to me" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 17:6); therefore, your "How they became the father's ins not stated" along with your free-willian philosophy is false because King Jesus says with unrestricted application "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) as well as "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned by the Word of God above are to all believers in all time! All praise and glory and honor be to the Sovereign Lord and God Jesus Christ!!!

The context of John 15:16 is Jesus' discourse with His disciples during the Last Supper. In this passage, Jesus is teaching His disciples about the importance of abiding in Him and bearing fruit. Here is a more detailed contextual explanation:

Context:
John 15 is part of Jesus' farewell discourse to His disciples, which takes place during the Last Supper (John 13-17).
In John 15, Jesus uses the metaphor of a vine and its branches to illustrate the importance of abiding in Him and bearing fruit.
Jesus emphasizes that apart from Him, the disciples can do nothing (John 15:5) and that those who abide in Him will bear much fruit (John 15:5, 8).
Explanation:
In John 15:16, Jesus tells His disciples that they did not choose Him, but He chose them.
This statement emphasizes the sovereignty of God in salvation and the fact that it is God who initiates the relationship with us.
Jesus' choice of His disciples was not based on their merit or worthiness but on His grace and love for them.
Implications:
The statement "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" highlights the importance of God's grace in salvation and the fact that it is not based on our own efforts or merit.

It emphasizes the fact that our relationship with God is initiated by Him and that we respond to His call.
This statement also underscores the importance of abiding in Christ and bearing fruit, as those who are chosen by Him are called to live a life that reflects His character and purposes.
In conclusion, John 15:16 is part of Jesus' teaching on the importance of abiding in Him and bearing fruit. The statement "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" emphasizes the sovereignty of God in salvation and the importance of responding to His call to abide in Him and bear fruit.

 

[brightfame52]

The bible shows multiple instances where God's will is not done

Blasphemy, even when men disobey God His Sovereign will is being done, like when Pharaoh disobeyed, he was doing Gods will so God was just in destroying him

 

[Johann]

Blasphemy, even when men disobey God His Sovereign will is being done, like when Pharaoh disobeyed, he was doing Gods will so God was just in destroying him

1. Jeremiah 42:10 - "If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up." This verse demonstrates that God's plans are contingent on human actions
2. Mark 3:35 - "For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother." This verse implies that not everyone chooses to do God's will
3. Acts 7:51 - "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you." This passage highlights human resistance to God's will
4. Jeremiah 3:19 - "I thought you would call me ‘Father’ and not turn away from following me." This verse reflects God's expectation of human response that may not always align with His will

These verses indicate that while God has a divine will, human free will and choices can sometimes diverge from what God desires. This dynamic interaction between God's will and human decisions showcases instances where God's will is not always carried out as intended due to human actions or disobedience.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Blasphemy, even when men disobey God His Sovereign will is being done, like when Pharaoh disobeyed, he was doing Gods will so God was just in destroying him

I tend to reserve the word "blasphemy" for more serious infractions, like putting ketchup on a hotdog.

 

[brightfame52]

1. Jeremiah 42:10 - "If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up." This verse demonstrates that God's plans are contingent on human actions
2. Mark 3:35 - "For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother." This verse implies that not everyone chooses to do God's will
3. Acts 7:51 - "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you." This passage highlights human resistance to God's will
4. Jeremiah 3:19 - "I thought you would call me ‘Father’ and not turn away from following me." This verse reflects God's expectation of human response that may not always align with His will

These verses indicate that while God has a divine will, human free will and choices can sometimes diverge from what God desires. This dynamic interaction between God's will and human decisions showcases instances where God's will is not always carried out as intended due to human actions or disobedience.

You may quote as many verses as you like, but God has predetermined that men will disobey Him as He did pharoah, you never read that sacred narrative ?

 

[brightfame52]

I tend to reserve the word "blasphemy" for more serious infractions, like putting ketchup on a hotdog.

Yeah right, but to say Gods will sometimes doesnt get done, is an affront to His Majesty, all things go according to His Sovereign will, even the the wills of devils and men Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Yeah right, but to say Gods will sometimes doesnt get done, is an affront to His Majesty, all things go according to His Sovereign will, even the the wills of devils and men Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Agree. Just tossing in a joke.

 

[Johann]

You may quote as many verses as you like, but God has predetermined that men will disobey Him as He did pharoah, you never read that sacred narrative ?

Your response effectively illustrates how the intersection of God's sovereignty and human responsibility is portrayed throughout Scripture. Let's expand upon each verse to demonstrate this dynamic:

1. Jeremiah 42:10 – "If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up."

• This verse indicates that God's promises depend on Israel's obedience and commitment to remain faithful to Him. If they choose to stay loyal, God assures them that He will bless them and protect them.

1. Mark 3:35 – "For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother."

• This verse underscores the fact that not every person chooses to do God's will. It highlights the distinction between those who submit themselves to God's purposes and those who don't.

1. Acts 7:51 – "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you."

• This passage shows that humans consistently resist God's will, just as their ancestors did before them. Human stubbornness and rebellion continue to hinder God's work among His people.

1. Jeremiah 3:19 – "I thought you would call me ‘Father’ and not turn away from following me."

• This verse reveals God's disappointment at humanity's failure to fulfill His expectations. Even though God extends mercy and forgiveness, He laments the fact that humans frequently reject His loving invitation to draw near to Him.

Regarding your comment about Pharaoh, it is true that God allowed Pharaoh to make choices contrary to His will. Yet, this doesn't imply that God approves of sinful behavior or that He isn't concerned about human choices. Instead, it serves as a reminder that God respects human freedom and allows individuals to make their own decisions, even if those choices result in suffering and separation from God.In summary, the verses provided reveal that although God has a divine plan, human choices and actions can impact whether or not God's intentions are fulfilled. This dynamic tension between God's sovereignty and human responsibility is a central theme in Scripture and helps us better understand our role in cooperating with God's will for our lives.

 

[Presby02]

So that's it? 7 words from you do away with all the many whole passages of scripture which show in various places that God is grieved that his will is not always done. Maybe you need to understand the context of the verse you've quoted?

I guess a good question is if you believe the will of God is always done he must always be walking in a state of being pleased correct?

So what your saying is Job 42:2 should just be dismissed? Job is just kidding? He misspoke?

What is it that prevents your almighty omnipotent God from getting His way?

 

[Presby02]

Uh--
Isa_45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’

Rom_14:11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”

Rom 14:10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
Rom 14:11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”
Rom 14:12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
In Romans 14:10-12, the context revolves around the theme of judgment and accountability before God. The passage addresses the issue of believers passing judgment on one another and emphasizes the importance of refraining from despising or judging others. It highlights the ultimate truth that all individuals will stand before the judgment seat of God, where each person will give an account of themselves.
The reference to every knee bowing and every tongue confessing to God in verse 11 underscores the universal acknowledgment of God's sovereignty and authority. This serves as a reminder that all individuals, regardless of their beliefs or actions, will ultimately recognize and submit to God.
Overall, these verses encourage believers to focus on their own accountability before God rather than passing judgment on others. It emphasizes humility, respect for one another, and the understanding that ultimately, each person will answer to God for their own actions and choices.

Isa 45:22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
Isa 45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’
Isa 45:24 “Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed all who were incensed against him.

In Isaiah 45:22-24, the context emphasizes the exclusive sovereignty and salvation offered by God. The passage begins with a call to all people from every corner of the earth to turn to God for salvation, highlighting His uniqueness as the one true God with no equal.
Verse 23 continues with a declaration by God Himself, affirming His authority and righteousness. It includes a solemn oath that every knee will bow and every tongue will swear allegiance to Him. This proclamation underscores the universal acknowledgment of God's supreme power and the ultimate submission of all creation to Him.
The passage concludes in verse 24 with a statement emphasizing that true righteousness and strength are found only in the Lord. Those who oppose or rebel against Him will ultimately come before Him and be put to shame. This serves as a reminder of God's justice and the inevitable accountability that all individuals will face before Him.
Overall, these verses convey a message of God's unmatched sovereignty, His call for all to turn to Him for salvation, and the assurance that in Him alone lies true righteousness and strength. It underscores the universal submission and allegiance that all creation will ultimately offer to God.

And the relevance to the fact that no purpose of His can be thwarted?

 

[Johann]

And the relevance to the fact that no purpose of His can be thwarted?

The concept of God's will is multifaceted and can refer to different aspects of God's attitude towards His creatures. One aspect is the "will of disposition," which refers to what is pleasing and agreeable to God. This aspect expresses something of God's attitude towards His creatures and can be broken by man's disobedience to God's preceptive will. The preceptive will of God is found in His law and expresses what is right and proper for us to do. While the decretive will of God cannot be broken and will come to pass, the preceptive will can be disobeyed. Therefore, it can be said that God's will can be thwarted in the sense that man can disobey His preceptive will.

However, it is important to note that the will of God is complex and multifaceted, and there are different nuances of meaning associated with it.

 

[brightfame52]

Your response effectively illustrates how the intersection of God's sovereignty and human responsibility is portrayed throughout Scripture. Let's expand upon each verse to demonstrate this dynamic:

1. Jeremiah 42:10 – "If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up."

• This verse indicates that God's promises depend on Israel's obedience and commitment to remain faithful to Him. If they choose to stay loyal, God assures them that He will bless them and protect them.

1. Mark 3:35 – "For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother."

• This verse underscores the fact that not every person chooses to do God's will. It highlights the distinction between those who submit themselves to God's purposes and those who don't.

1. Acts 7:51 – "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you."

• This passage shows that humans consistently resist God's will, just as their ancestors did before them. Human stubbornness and rebellion continue to hinder God's work among His people.

1. Jeremiah 3:19 – "I thought you would call me ‘Father’ and not turn away from following me."

• This verse reveals God's disappointment at humanity's failure to fulfill His expectations. Even though God extends mercy and forgiveness, He laments the fact that humans frequently reject His loving invitation to draw near to Him.

Regarding your comment about Pharaoh, it is true that God allowed Pharaoh to make choices contrary to His will. Yet, this doesn't imply that God approves of sinful behavior or that He isn't concerned about human choices. Instead, it serves as a reminder that God respects human freedom and allows individuals to make their own decisions, even if those choices result in suffering and separation from God.In summary, the verses provided reveal that although God has a divine plan, human choices and actions can impact whether or not God's intentions are fulfilled. This dynamic tension between God's sovereignty and human responsibility is a central theme in Scripture and helps us better understand our role in cooperating with God's will for our lives.

You may quote as many verses as you like, but God has predetermined that men will disobey Him as He did pharoah, you never read that sacred narrative ?

Who said anything about God approving of sinful behavior ? Again: God has predetermined that men will disobey Him

 

[Johann]

You may quote as many verses as you like, but God has predetermined that men will disobey Him as He did pharoah, you never read that sacred narrative ?

Who said anything about God approving of sinful behavior ? Again: God has predetermined that men will disobey Him

The points raised in the question can be addressed with biblical scriptures:

1. God's Predetermination of Disobedience:
   • God's sovereignty and foreknowledge are evident in various biblical verses. For instance, in Romans 9:17-18, it is stated that God raised up Pharaoh for the very purpose of displaying His power and making His name known. This illustrates God's control over events, even those involving disobedience.
   • Another example is found in Acts 2:23, where it is mentioned that Jesus was handed over to be crucified according to God's deliberate plan and foreknowledge.
2. God's Disapproval of Sinful Behavior:
   • While God may allow disobedience as part of His plan, it is important to note that He does not approve of sinful behavior. In Romans 6:1-2, the apostle Paul addresses the notion that grace may abound where sin increases, emphasizing that believers should not continue in sin.
   • Additionally, in 1 John 3:4, sin is defined as lawlessness, highlighting God's stance against disobedience.

These verses from the Bible demonstrate the complex interplay between God's sovereignty, human disobedience, and His disapproval of sinful behavior.

 

[TomL]

Blasphemy, even when men disobey God His Sovereign will is being done, like when Pharaoh disobeyed, he was doing Gods will so God was just in destroying him

We were not talking about the enemy of God but those who are supposed to be his children.

 

[TomL]

You demand only "option A" or "option B" without recognition of an "option C" or more options. God causes me to address the spirit of your questions, that is, your questions (embedded statements) define you, TomL.

God caused me to address your questions in post #353 with Romans 9:18-23 and in post #420 with Romans 7:14-20.

Your questions are addressed.



I wouldn't say "happy", but your answer leaves room for a follow-up post; in the meantime, I encourage you to read the following Word of God.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death" (John 8:51).

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15).

"He who does not love Me does not keep My words" (John 14:24)

"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48)

"by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned" (Matthew 12:37)

"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes] nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:16-20).

"everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and [yet] it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock" (Matthew 7:24-25).

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven [will enter]. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" (Matthew 7:21-23) "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell - and great was its fall" (Matthew 7:26-27).



"I and the Father are One" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 10:30), so Almighty God says "Yours they were, and you gave them to me" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 17:6); therefore, your "How they became the father's ins not stated" along with your free-willian philosophy is false because King Jesus says with unrestricted application "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) as well as "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned by the Word of God above are to all believers in all time! All praise and glory and honor be to the Sovereign Lord and God Jesus Christ!!!

Well lets see

Christians sin

In your theology God determines everything

God must desire sin

Alternatively

God desires you do not sin

Non deterministic theologies hold God does not determine everything

God therefore does not always get what he wants

 

[TomL]

Thanks @TomL. Thought it would be good to have this verse quoted once again,

Jer. 32:35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

You are welcome

 

[TomL]

Job 42:2

Job 42:2 (NASB 2020) — 2 “I know that You can do all things, And that no plan is impossible for You.

Says nothing about God always getting what he desires

1 Timothy 2:4 (ESV) — 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.