An Article on free will

[Kermos]

The context concerns his disciples. His messengers when he was on earth

That does not mean there cannot be an extended application

Again you have posted nothing which speaks of unconditional election

His disciples were given to him by the Father to whom they belonged

John 17:1–8 (ESV) — 1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.

Christ is speaking to every Christian to take the message of Christ's salvation to all.

You conveyed "The context concerns [exclusively] his disciples. His messengers when he was [only] on earth" respecting John 15:16-19, yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your unretracted previous writing of "Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion" of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter "men who have accompanied us all the time" (Acts 1:21) while he was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were in the room when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter said:

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
(Acts 1:21-23)
​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ's "you" in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Based on your writing above, you cannot be Jesus Christ's friend despite your "Yes" to the question "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, TomL?" because you express conflicted thoughts about the population of Christ's "you" in the passage. I remind you for this exchange that I consider you to write "apostles" whenever you write "disciples".

Let's take a look at Lord Jesus Christ's usage of "you" with which the above question and answer pertains:

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
(John 15:15-16 (you replied to a fully quoted John 15:14-19 (links to KJV, NASB1995, and YLT)))
​

Your response of "Yes" shows your personal claim of being part of the "you" population inside of God's blessing of "I have called you friends" (John 15:15), but then in the continuation of the very same blessing, your heart's "it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen" eliminates you, TomL, from being a part of the "you" population inside of God's blessing of "I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore, you are not a chosen friend of Jesus according to your own self-willed heart's treasure which leavens your whole loaf of free-willian philosophy (Matthew 16:6).

In effect, your "Yes" and "it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen" expresses a confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) "Yes No" concept about the audience represented in Christ's "you" recorded in John 15:14-19.

You wrote "Nothing there concerning on what basis he chose them" which conveys your thoughts that, somehow, the Apostles chose Jesus thus your purported choice executed by the Apostle's is your purported "basis" for Jesus choosing the Apostles, yet every Christian's Lord Jesus Christ says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16), so God eliminates any purported free-will choosing by man towards God; therefore, your "basis" conjecture provides only shifting sand diversion away from the Truth (John 14:6) for you.

King Jesus decrees over the Kingdom of God:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

No Holy Scripture states man has a free-will.

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

 

[TomL]

Christ is speaking to every Christian to take the message of Christ's salvation to all.

You conveyed "The context concerns [exclusively] his disciples. His messengers when he was [only] on earth" respecting John 15:16-19, yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your unretracted previous writing of "Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion" of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter "men who have accompanied us all the time" (Acts 1:21) while he was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were in the room when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter said:

​

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.​

(Acts 1:21-23)​

​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ's "you" in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Based on your writing above, you cannot be Jesus Christ's friend despite your "Yes" to the question "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, TomL?" because you express conflicted thoughts about the population of Christ's "you" in the passage. I remind you for this exchange that I consider you to write "apostles" whenever you write "disciples".

Let's take a look at Lord Jesus Christ's usage of "you" with which the above question and answer pertains:

​

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you​

(John 15:15-16 (you replied to a fully quoted John 15:14-19 (links to KJV, NASB1995, and YLT)))​

​

Your response of "Yes" shows your personal claim of being part of the "you" population inside of God's blessing of "I have called you friends" (John 15:15), but then in the continuation of the very same blessing, your heart's "it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen" eliminates you, TomL, from being a part of the "you" population inside of God's blessing of "I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore, you are not a chosen friend of Jesus according to your own self-willed heart's treasure which leavens your whole loaf of free-willian philosophy (Matthew 16:6).

In effect, your "Yes" and "it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen" expresses a confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) "Yes No" concept about the audience represented in Christ's "you" recorded in John 15:14-19.

You wrote "Nothing there concerning on what basis he chose them" which conveys your thoughts that, somehow, the Apostles chose Jesus thus your purported choice executed by the Apostle's is your purported "basis" for Jesus choosing the Apostles, yet every Christian's Lord Jesus Christ says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16), so God eliminates any purported free-will choosing by man towards God; therefore, your "basis" conjecture provides only shifting sand diversion away from the Truth (John 14:6) for you.

King Jesus decrees over the Kingdom of God:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

No Holy Scripture states man has a free-will.

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

The point remains you have posted nothing which speaks of unconditional election to salvation

Christ was given those who belonged to the father

John 17:6–10 (KJV 1900) — 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

and yet one chosen was a devil

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

 

[TomL]

God bless you, brightfame52,

As you know, the Apostle Paul's writing is "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will".

@TomL adds "hardened Jew" into Paul's writing changing the writing in the writing of TomL "Thou hardened Jew wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will".

Just as God has made known to you, salvation "depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Romans 9:16), so no person free-will chooses God yet God chooses man (John 15:16-19), and TomL needs to read without adding to nor contradicting the Holy Writ.

You seem to have a problem reading in context

The Passage concerns jews and gentiles, faith and works

It is not about Calvinist doctrine

Read the summary text

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

faith and works

Romans 10:16–21 (KJV 1900) — 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Israelites are at fault not God
Romans 11:19–23 (KJV 1900) — 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
They were broken off because of a lack of ffaith but if they remained not in unbelief they could be grafted in again
They had a remedy which they could employ

God's desire was not to limit salvation but to expand it.

Romans 11:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[TomL]

Yep same exact thing, man cant accept the Truth of God in Salvation, he believes its not fair

False

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joshua 24:15–22 (KJV 1900) — 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.

 

[brightfame52]

False

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joshua 24:15–22 (KJV 1900) — 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.

You respond just as Paul anticipated, it's not fair

 

[TomL]

You respond just as Paul anticipated, it's not fair

Nope I noted how the Jews who tried to establish their own righteousnesd reacted

If you knew how to read a passage in context you would know that

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

 

[brightfame52]

Nope I noted how the Jews who tried to establish their own righteousnesd reacted

If you knew how to read a passage in context you would know that

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

It's not fair, ones eternal destiny whether Salvation or Damnation has already been determined by God!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

It's not fair, ones eternal destiny whether Salvation or Damnation has already been determined by God!

Why does He still blame us, for who is able to resist His will? It's God's fault, not ours!!!

 

[brightfame52]

Why does He still blame us, for who is able to resist His will? It's God's fault, not ours!!!

Hey we are just the clay He is the Potter

 

[TomL]

It's not fair, ones eternal destiny whether Salvation or Damnation has already been determined by God!

Again learn to read in context

Nope I noted how the Jews who tried to establish their own righteousnesd reacted

If you knew how to read a passage in context you would know that

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

 

[brightfame52]

Again learn to read in context

Nope I noted how the Jews who tried to establish their own righteousnesd reacted

If you knew how to read a passage in context you would know that

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

I'm good with the context for that is where the truth is found. That's not fair

 

[TomL]

I'm good with the context for that is where the truth is found. That's not fair

Nope you ignore context

As wastated
'
Again learn to read in context

Nope I noted how the Jews who tried to establish their own righteousnesd reacted

If you knew how to read a passage in context you would know that

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

 

[brightfame52]

Nope you ignore context

As wastated
'
Again learn to read in context

Nope I noted how the Jews who tried to establish their own righteousnesd reacted

If you knew how to read a passage in context you would know that

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

That's not fair

 

[TomL]

That's not fair

deal with the passage

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

 

[brightfame52]

deal with the passage

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

That's not fair

 

[TomL]

That's not fair

you are running

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

 

[brightfame52]

you are running

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

Right to that's not fair.

 

[TomL]

Right to that's not fair.

Do you ever address a text?

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

 

[brightfame52]

Do you ever address a text?

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous depends on having faith

I'm not

 

[Kermos]

The point remains you have posted nothing which speaks of unconditional election to salvation

Read it again, because your writing there has no respect nor honor for the Word of God which God causes me to proclaim to you "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) as well as "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so Christ alone causes man to be saved from the wrath of God, not a free-will choosing of God by man, but truly my Lord and my God Jesus Christ exclusively chooses people unto salvation! Praise Jesus!!!

Based on your writing above, you cannot be Jesus Christ's friend despite your "Yes" to the question "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, TomL?" because you express conflicted thoughts about the population of Christ's "you" in the passage. I remind you for this exchange that I consider you to write "apostles" whenever you write "disciples".

Let's take a look at Lord Jesus Christ's usage of "you" with which the above question and answer pertains:

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
(John 15:15-16 (you replied to a fully quoted John 15:14-19 (links to KJV, NASB1995, and YLT)))
​

Your response of "Yes" shows your personal claim of being part of the "you" population inside of God's blessing of "I have called you friends" (John 15:15), but then in the continuation of the very same blessing, your heart's "it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen" eliminates you, TomL, from being a part of the "you" population inside of God's blessing of "I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore, you are not a chosen friend of Jesus according to your own self-willed heart's treasure which leavens your whole loaf of free-willian philosophy (Matthew 16:6).

In effect, your "Yes" and "it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen" expresses a confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) "Yes No" concept about the audience represented in Christ's "you" recorded in John 15:14-19.

You wrote "Nothing there concerning on what basis he chose them" which conveys your thoughts that, somehow, the Apostles chose Jesus thus your purported choice executed by the Apostle's is your purported "basis" for Jesus choosing the Apostles, yet every Christian's Lord Jesus Christ says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16), so God eliminates any purported free-will choosing by man towards God; therefore, your "basis" conjecture provides only shifting sand diversion away from the Truth (John 14:6) for you.

Christ was given those who belonged to the father

John 17:6–10 (KJV 1900) — 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

and yet one chosen was a devil

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

"I and the Father are One" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 10:30), so Almighty God says "Yours they were, and you gave them to me" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 17:6); therefore, your "How they became the father's ins not stated" along with your free-willian philosophy is false because King Jesus says with unrestricted application "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) as well as "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned by the Word of God above are to all believers in all time! All praise and glory and honor be to the Sovereign Lord and God Jesus Christ!!!

The blessed Word of God that only He alone causes men to enter the Kingdom of God:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

No Holy Scripture states man has a free-will.

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).