The basis for this assertion is what?
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Yes, When it is God telling one to make a choice, I believe it's correct to understand the ability is there
God is not insincere, he does not play games with men. Rather he is kind and loving and desires the salvation of all.
He would not tell men to believe if they could not believe
You believe it's correct. You have to.
No one said He is insincere. Not sure where that came from. Seems like a attempt to poison the well.
Sounds like another baseless presupposition.
I was not suggesting anyone stated God was insincere. Just expressing my views.
I am Sorry if you thought I was suggesting otherwise.
Apology accepted. Thank you
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Imagination. In our mind we can do anything. That is why the Scriptures say that human beings "imagine a vain thing". A choice in the efforts of another is powerless.
You are welcome
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Example. If you choose a mechanic, does that mean you actually fixed your vehicle? If would be the vain babblings of imagination to make such a assertion but vain people do just that. They lie.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
There was nothing in his response that indicated such. It was your imagination. No apology was needed or required.
Hello TomL,
Please answer the following question. I have only asked one question to you, but it has gone unanswered, so it's repeated from previously for your convenience, below.
Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, TomL?
Jesus says "you" with reference to His friends as recorded in John 15:14-19, and Jesus says "you" with reference to His exclusively chosen ones as recorded in John 15:14-19.
The blessing by Jesus to the "you" as recorded in John 15:14-19 is to all believers in all time.
You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. This I command you, that you love one another. If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you
(John 15:14-19, KJV, NASB1995, and YLT)
All glory to God! All praise to the Bread of Life! God alone does all to save the children of God from the wrath of God, and man, who does absolutely nothing to contribute, is the blessed recipient of God’s mercy and God's grace for man's salvation.
Please answer the following question. I have only asked one question to you, but it has gone unanswered, so it's repeated from previously for your convenience, below.
Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, TomL?
Jesus says "you" with reference to His friends as recorded in John 15:14-19, and Jesus says "you" with reference to His exclusively chosen ones as recorded in John 15:14-19.
The blessing by Jesus to the "you" as recorded in John 15:14-19 is to all believers in all time.
You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. This I command you, that you love one another. If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you
(John 15:14-19, KJV, NASB1995, and YLT)
Johann
Well-known member
In John 15:14-19, Jesus addresses his disciples, referring to them as "friends" and "chosen ones." The passage emphasizes the intimacy of the relationship between Jesus and his followers, as well as the special calling and election of those whom Jesus has chosen.
The specific verses in question are as follows:
John 15:14 (NLT): "You are my friends if you do what I command."
John 15:16 (NLT): "You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name."
John 15:19 (NLT): "The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you."
These verses highlight the close relationship between Jesus and his disciples, as well as the unique calling and purpose for which they have been chosen.
The distinction between "friends" and "chosen ones" in this context reflects the multifaceted nature of the disciples' relationship with Jesus. They are his friends, indicating a close and personal bond, and they are also his chosen ones, signifying their special election and commissioning for a specific purpose in God's redemptive plan.
The passage underscores the depth of Jesus' love for his followers and the intentional nature of their selection and calling. It also acknowledges the reality of their distinctiveness from the world and the opposition they may face as a result of their association with Christ.
In summary, John 15:14-19 conveys the intertwined concepts of friendship, election, and purpose within the context of Jesus' relationship with his disciples. It affirms the intimate connection between Jesus and those he has chosen, as well as their unique role in bearing fruit for God's kingdom.
J.
God always gets God's desires for it is written that Job said to YHWH "no purpose of Yours can be thwarted" (Job 42:2); in other words, God never misses!
For some reason, you who claims to know Scripture fails to know this Truth (John 14:6).
I am a Christian because I believe in Christ.
God's Grace succeeds eternally without exception for Almighty God, the Word of God declares
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.
(John 10:27-30)
The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces
- divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
“you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
“he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward) - beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God
And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!
brightfame52
Well-known member
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I'm going to take this slow because you seem to insist on bloviating.
I don't know what you're referencing but Job 42:2 says the following.
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Why are you perverting the Scriptures with your false quote?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You're not quoting Job 42:2. Pay attention.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!
Did Jesus get what He wanted here?
So Christians never sin or God desires sin ? Which one?
brightfame52
Well-known member
There you go ignoring the text
Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!
brightfame52
Well-known member
Im not ignoring it, but Im not going to take time to explain my view on it to you, it will be a waste of time, God does what He desires still is valid Job 23:13-14
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him
