An Article on free will

[TomL]

It is ironic that anyone would use Acts 16:30-31 as evidence of free will. The mistake one makes is focusing on the answer. The key to this passage is not the answer but the question. Nobody asks the question "What must I do to be saved?" unless they are moved by the Spirit of God.

You fail to address the issue

Why do they tell the jailer to believe?

Why did they not tell him he can do nothing, that God must give him faith then he can be saved

But they don't do that and it is never stated in all of scripture and appears only in your theology

BTW you assume man is incapable of desiring salvation unless regenerate, but your assumption is proof only of what you assume

 

[Red Baker]

No I am not RCC. You appear confused

Never said that you were.

Why do you post this nonsense? It has nothing to do with me

It has everything to do with you. You are very slow in your reading comprehension Tom~The reason why it was posted to you (and your friend indirectly) is this: You (and they) keep saying that your golden calf called faith puts one into Christ; teaching, that man's faith is of himself apart from divine revelation, yet the Lord Jesus clearly is teaching that our faith to know the truth concerning Jesus Christ is a gift from God, and this faith given, is the means of building the true church of Jesus Christ, which the gates of hell cannot prevail against us.

Tom, I'm not sure how to make this any clearer, or simple enough for you to understand the purpose of posting this~but this is the purpose of my post.

Straighten out your confusion

May God (in all sincerity) help you to see your error~only he can be merciful to his children in error....

1st Timothy 1:14,15~"Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus."

It's not Peter but probably his confession or possibly Christ himself

Not probably, but it is Peter's faith which was freely given to cause him to believe, is the teaching of Jesus Christ ~ are you going to go against him? You might want to stop and think this through before doing so~this would not be wise on your part, it may very well cause you to go deeper into your error where there may not be a way to escape.

In any case all who believe are in fact a part of the church

True, very true~yet, do not we as believers, desire to give all glory to whom it belongs? Jesus clearly said:

​

Matthew 16:17​

“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

Regeneration is a work by the Spirit of the Living God alone in resurrecting an elect dead sinner to life, by creating in that sinner a new man, which alone is capable of hearing, seeing, and believing, in word of God. Flesh and blood in any sense whatsoever has no part in this work of regeneration, zero part........ God alone is the only active person working, man is totally passive during this birth by the Spirit, and is at the mercy of Almighty God. Selah!

 

[Red Baker]

Why do they tell the jailer to believe?

Why did they not tell him he can do nothing, that God must give him faith then he can be saved

But they don't do that and it is never stated in all of scripture....

Tom, I would do the same with any man that ask what do I do to be saved. What Paul said to him was perfect, because, it is true all who believe shall indeed to saved, from whatever was on their mind at the time of asking the question.

Teaching truth in a broader and deeper sense is not needed at the first, besides, we should never overload new converts with deeper truth than they are able to bear~first milk, then meat of the word~that can come over time just as Jesus did to his disciples~do you need proof of what I'm saying, you should not if you stop and think.

A wise student of the scriptures who has truth, understands perfectly that Paul said to the jailor all that was needed to be said at that time.

 

[TomL]

Tom, I would do the same with any man that ask what do I do to be saved. What Paul said to him was perfect, because, it is true all who believe shall indeed to saved, from whatever was on their mind at the time of asking the question.

Teaching truth in a broader and deeper sense is not needed at the first, besides, we should never overload new converts with deeper truth than they are able to bear~first milk, then meat of the word~that can come over time just as Jesus did to his disciples~do you need proof of what I'm saying, you should not if you stop and think.

A wise student of the scriptures who has truth, understands perfectly that Paul said to the jailor all that was needed to be said at that time.

So you are not willing to preach what you really believe?

I do not think that rescues you from the issue and the fact the apostles never state any such thing is more than enough reason to disbelieve it.

 

[Red Baker]

Instead of your confused statements above why don't you actually try to prove unconditional election to salvation

with an actual verses which actually states that

John 15:16 does not

I will not answer this post since it was not to me, yet, I have seen where this one verse is being quoted often and twisted by you, so I thought I would address it.

John 15:16​

“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”

This scripture should be easy to understand, but for many reasons, man has darken the truth on this one simple teaching of Jesus.
Let me ask my readers this question, if answered correctly should help us see the truth Christ intended for us to receive.

What type of service do we have that we could possibly choose Christ for? You say that's a stupid question, well I agree, but so are these words: "Ye have not chosen me"...if we believe Christ is teaching his disciples you have not chosen to be my apostles but I have chosen you, that would be a redundant statement on Jesus' part. They knew Christ chose twelve apostles~yet, he was reminding them they did not choose to follow Him by their own free will, but he first chosen them to be his children and to know him, which caused them to follow him! This truth they had to be reminded of.

 

[Red Baker]

So you are not willing to preach what you really believe?

Never said that~but, I'm not going to try to make a theologian out of newborn babes. Neither did Jesus.

 

[TomL]

Never said that you were.

So why do you bring it up?

It has everything to do with you. You are very slow in your reading comprehension Tom~The reason why it was posted to you (and your friend indirectly) is this: You (and they) keep saying that your golden calf called faith puts one into Christ; teaching, that man's faith is of himself apart from divine revelation,

Sorry I never teach any such thing. The fact that you imagine that is proof of your poor reading comprehension and the irrelevance of your comments concerning the RCC

examine verse i have often quoted

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

how much exegesis do you need to see the apostle believes men might believe the truth based upon the baptists witness

revelation

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men believe based on the apostles testimony

revelation

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

revelation

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

that if preached to they could believe

revelation

etc

yet the Lord Jesus clearly is teaching that our faith to know the truth concerning Jesus Christ is a gift from God, and this faith given, is the means of building the true church of Jesus Christ, which the gates of hell cannot prevail against us.

Faith to know to the truth?

what is that

Truth is revealed and you either believe or you do not

The bible nowhere states God infuses faith in man

Tom, I'm not sure how to make this any clearer, or simple enough for you to understand the purpose of posting this~but this is the purpose of my post.

May God (in all sincerity) help you to see your error~only he can be merciful to his children in error....

sorry but the only error here is yours

You have a doctrine which is stated nowhere in scripture and is contrary to much scripture

Beside were there any truth in your doctrine I am believing what he determined me to believe

So your comments are not even rational

1st Timothy 1:14,15~"Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus."

Yes God shows mercy but in your doctrine it is only to certain select individuals he shows mercy to. The others he mercilessly reprobates to destruction

In comparison your view of God makes him far less merciful than the true christian God

Not probably, but it is Peter's faith which was freely given to cause him to believe, is the teaching of Jesus Christ ~ are you going to go against him? You might want to stop and think this through before doing so~this would not be wise on your part, it may very well cause you to go deeper into your error where there may not be a way to escape.

Sorry nowhere do we read Peter was given faith. He was given revelation.

That is tweisting scripture and reading your doctrine into it

True, very true~yet, do not we as believers, desire to give all glory to whom it belongs? Jesus clearly said:

​

Matthew 16:17​

“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

Revelation not faith. Why do you conflate the two?

Regeneration is a work by the Spirit of the Living God alone in resurrecting an elect dead sinner to life, by creating in that sinner a new man, which alone is capable of hearing, seeing, and believing, in word of God. Flesh and blood in any sense whatsoever has no part in this work of regeneration, zero part........ God alone is the only active person working, man is totally passive during this birth by the Spirit, and is at the mercy of Almighty God. Selah!

faith precedes life

Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life



The following verses show faith precedes life

John 6:53 (NASB 2020) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.


John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -

One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. (all agree quickening - being made alive speaks of regeneration when spoken of the physically living)


We are raised spiritually through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Of course unbelief does not profit so it must be through faith

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

.through - dia instrument or means in the genitive case - Vines

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

God regenerates those he has forgiven

foregiveness requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

With so many errors in your doctrine you do not have the truth

 

[TomL]

Never said that~but, I'm not going to try to make a theologian out of newborn babes. Neither did Jesus.

Sorry but that is what you stated.

Why would you tell someone to do what you do not believe you he can do?

To me that smacks of deception and a desire to proselytize the already saved

Can you preach God's love for the world to him?

That Christ died for his sins?

Can you even preach there is an atonement available for him?

or that God desires to save him?

We know you cannot

 

[TomL]

I will not answer this post since it was not to me, yet, I have seen where this one verse is being quoted often and twisted by you, so I thought I would address it.

Sorry you have done nothing to show it twiasted. Rather you simp0ly assume your view of unconditional election to salvation though the text does not state any such thingt

John 15:16​

“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”

This scripture should be easy to understand, but for many reasons, man has darken the truth on this one simple teaching of Jesus.
Let me ask my readers this question, if answered correctly should help us see the truth Christ intended for us to receive.

What type of service do we have that we could possibly choose Christ for? You say that's a stupid question, well I agree, but so are these words: "Ye have not chosen me"...if we believe Christ is teaching his disciples you have not chosen to be my apostles but I have chosen you, that would be a redundant statement on Jesus' part. They knew Christ chose twelve apostles~yet, he was reminding them they did not choose to follow Him by their own free will, but he first chosen them to be his children and to know him, which caused them to follow him! This truth they had to be reminded of.

Your own statement

They knew Christ chose twelve apostles
that is the extant of what we know Christ chose
Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

He called his disciples who were given to him by the father. They were already the fathers.

John 17:6–9 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything which You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on the behalf of those whom You have given Me, because they are Yours;


Nothing is stated they were chosen to be the father's unconditionally. These are men who believed God. Believing God, they would believe Jesus, and from them he chose 12 who he named apostles

The fact of the matter is there is no verse in all the bible which states God unconditional selects men to be saved so you read it into passages where it is not stated and for which another explanation exists

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

 

[Rockson]

Tom, I would do the same with any man that ask what do I do to be saved. What Paul said to him was perfect, because, it is true all who believe shall indeed to saved, from whatever was on their mind at the time of asking the question.

So what you're saying is you'd be giving him information that hold back on really and truly educating the man with his heart felt question. It's like if someone asked you how to do a oil change on their car and you tell him how it's done but you purposely leave out the most important imperative thing for him to know (according to you) that it can only be done by a certified mechanic. So what you're saying is you take people to dead end. Your answer therefore would be extremely disingenuous.

Teaching truth in a broader and deeper sense is not needed at the first,

The truth of what he was asking IS NEEDED at first and sorry but to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

besides, we should never overload new converts with deeper truth than they are able to bear~first milk, then meat of the word~that can come over time

Well nice try but you're off the rails here in a not so good of way. The things of repentance and faith towards God ARE THE MILK!

Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, Heb 6:1

So if Paul the Apostle believed what you do he would have told the man right on the spot and would have been clear that the whole thing may not even apply to him. He was asking him about faith in God for salvation. That's the milk. He told him and that was to believe!

A wise student of the scriptures who has truth, understands perfectly that Paul said to the jailor all that was needed to be said at that time.

Sorry but you need to consider there's no wisdom coming from you in this matter. You have the jailer taken to a dead end on the milk of the gospel and that's how to be saved.

 

[TomL]

So what you're saying is you'd be giving him information that hold back on really and truly educating the man with his heart felt question. It's like if someone asked you how to do a oil change on their car and you tell him how it's done but you purposely leave out the most important imperative thing for him to know (according to you) that it can only be done by a certified mechanic. So what you're saying is you take people to dead end. Your answer therefore would be extremely disingenuous.

It's actually deceiving and hiding from people what they truly believe. I think it is an acknowledgement that should they preach what they really believe few would respond who would respond to the real gospel

 

[TomL]

I will not answer this post since it was not to me, yet, I have seen where this one verse is being quoted often and twisted by you, so I thought I would address it.

John 15:16​

“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”

This scripture should be easy to understand, but for many reasons, man has darken the truth on this one simple teaching of Jesus.
Let me ask my readers this question, if answered correctly should help us see the truth Christ intended for us to receive.

What type of service do we have that we could possibly choose Christ for? You say that's a stupid question, well I agree, but so are these words: "Ye have not chosen me"...if we believe Christ is teaching his disciples you have not chosen to be my apostles but I have chosen you, that would be a redundant statement on Jesus' part. They knew Christ chose twelve apostles~yet, he was reminding them they did not choose to follow Him by their own free will, but he first chosen them to be his children and to know him, which caused them to follow him! This truth they had to be reminded of.

Not even fellow Calvinists accept your claim

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

But I chose you (ἀλλʼ ἐγω ἐξελεξαμην ὑμας [all’ egō exelexamēn humas]). First aorist middle indicative of ἐκλεγω [eklegō]. See this same verb and tense used for the choice of the disciples by Christ (6:70; 13:18; 15:19). Jesus recognizes his own responsibility in the choice after a night of prayer (Luke 6:13).11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 15:16.

In these days he went out to the mountain to pray, and all night he continued in prayer to God. 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor11 The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Lk 6:12–16.

True, the subject now in hand is not the ordinary election of believers, by which they are adopted to be the children of God, but that special election, by which he set apart his disciples to the office of preaching the Gospel11 John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 119.

 

[Red Baker]

Not even fellow Calvinists accept your claim

I have said many times over the years~I'm not Calvinist.

Calvinism, Arminianism, and the Truth

Calvinism, Arminianism, and the Truth John Calvin 1509-1564

letgodbetrue.com

I'll come back and address your post later when I have more time, no problem whatsoever, looking forward answering both you and Rockson.

 

[Kermos]

Sorry you are in denial

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joshua 24:14–25 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. 23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel. 24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey. 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.



What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?

finally


John 6:29

Jesus told them they must work

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

you ignored the commentary of your Calvinist peers

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.



Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Tetament commentary D.A. Carson

John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —

The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary

---

[1] D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.


The work of Greek exegetes

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?
29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1
1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

rather than deal with

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe is the answer to what must i do

Not the nothing "God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

You simply asserted your view

you did the same here

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

they were to repent

What shall we do is answered by you must repent again not the nothing

"God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

John 15:16

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

Born again

It is through belief in the gospel

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

I echo the Apostle Paul's belief that the love of Christ controls us disciples of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:14), yet you falsely apply "you are in denial".

Absolutely no Word of God you quoted states that God imparted man with a free-will to choose toward God; in fact, let's review one Old Testament passage and one New Testament passage from your post's citations.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL		Joshua
If you choose not to serve YHWH, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living, or YHWH the God of Israel; but as for me and my house because YHWH God commanded er asked er said 'please use the ability I gave you to wholeheartedly choose Me as your only God then you shall have no other gods before Me', we choose to serve YHWH. (TomL 24:15)		If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve YHWH, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH. (Joshua 24:15)

And of similar vein go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Another demonstration of your fraudulent free-willian philosophy occurs with your "consider the various [man] choices here" respecting Matthew 22:1-14 where the concept of "choice" is exclusively reserved by King Jesus to God's choice in "For many are summoned, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14), after all, man acts based upon man's state, whether slave of sin (Romans 6:20, man's default state) or slave of Christ (1 Corinthians 7:22, man's state after God converts man). More detail about TomL's false statements about the Lord’s words recorded in Matthew 22:1-14 can be found at post #1,498.

This means that you self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) philosopher added to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-willian Philosophy is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

Please see the next post that God causes me to post, the Benefactor lovingly controls us beneficiaries post.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE MY GRACIOUS CONTROLLER!!!

 

[Kermos]

According to the Word of God, the Truth (John 14:6), the Lord and God Jesus Christ, controls man's salvation and sanctification.

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

 

[TomL]

According to the Word of God, the Truth (John 14:6), the Lord and God Jesus Christ, controls man's salvation and sanctification.

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

Items 1 & 2 are the same old claims you have repeatedly made but never prove

1 consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.



2 Jesus told them they must work

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”




2nd Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?

29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1

1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

τὰ ἔργα τοῦ θεοῦ must not be taken to mean ‘the works which God works,’ but, as in Jer. 48:10 (31:10 LXX): 1 Cor. 15:58, the works well pleasing to God.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 760–761.

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

end pt1

 

[TomL]

“he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God

Fruit comes after salvation and no one disputes it is Christ in us/ the spirit producing the fruit.

1. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)

You stop short

Nicodemus does not understand so he asks

John 3:9 (UASV) — 9 Nicodemus answered and said to him, “How can these things be?”

Jesus does not leave him in the dark but tells him

John 3:10–15 (UASV) — 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly I say to you, we speak what we know, and we bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony! 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe; how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 And no one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone believing in him will have eternal life.”

He must believe to have that regenerative life which is eternal

1. 
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God

Yes God regenerates that is he saves gives life but he does so for those with faith

John 3:16 (UASV) — 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, in order that whoever believes in him will not be destroyed but have eternal life.

John 3:36 (UASV) — 36 The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:40 (UASV) — 40 And yet you do not want to come to me that you may have life.

John 6:40 (UASV) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and exercises faith in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:53 (UASV) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves.

John 20:31 (UASV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

1. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)

That speaks only of revelation. Given revelation, man can believe

Romans 10:8–15 (UASV) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith which we are proclaiming, 9 that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call on him; 13 for “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how will they hear without someone to preach? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”

thus we see how God enables faith

1. 
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)

It should be noted repentance is unto life

That is repentance precedes regenerative life

How did God get the gentiles who are spoken of in Acts 11:18 to repent?

He sent Peter with the gospel who would

Acts 11:14 (UASV) — 14 he will speak words to you a message by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’

 

[Red Baker]

So why do you bring it up?

Sorry I never teach any such thing. The fact that you imagine that is proof of your poor reading comprehension and the irrelevance of your comments concerning the RCC

I keep telling myself, trying to reason with you to come to the knowledge of the truth is an impossible task. You are irrational, and resist the testimony of the Holy Ghost over and over again.

So why do you bring it up?

Why did I bring up Matthew 16:13-19? ................ Matthew 16:13-19~"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon ~this rock~ I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Listen to my words again, carefully:

Red Baker~The church is built upon the DIVINE REVELATION that Jesus said was given TO PETER from heaven so that he KNEW Jesus Christ to be the Son of God and sent by Him

Let it be said in all boldness that all are badly deceived by their own hearts whoever believes that God's holy temple is built by ~human hands/free will, or man's works, such as faith, etc. How great are they deceived who believe this lie! Selah.

Tom you believe this lie and so do your friends. let us listen to your voice speaking over and over again through this thread and others:

From post #33

Toml: unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy

Post #100

Clearly scripture teaches man is capable of believing the gospel

Post #127

In times past says nothing at all about an inability to repent

Post #137

And ? Are you arguing freewill was lost as one passed from the old covenant to the new?

I do not see any force in this claim

It was lost at the fall of Adam and Eve! Lost under the old Covenant with our father Adam! His will became in BONDAGE to to sin and devil himself! The new man in Jesus Christ alone is FREE~created after the image of Jesus Christ by the power of God. The old man is in bondage and will always have sin in its members~that keeps God's elect from doing the will of God perfectly as they desire to do so, for that which they hate, that they do, not as a practice, but sin is mixed in with their very best effort of doing the will of God~and it grieves them deeply! But, they know there's a day coming, when they shall forever be delivered from this body of sin and death, through our Lord Jesus Christ~qwho alone wrought the victory for us.

Tom, I could keep going through this thread to point out you believe and teach that man of himself has the power to believe, repent, and obey the gospel apart from God first giving him the power to do so, is this not corrects?

Let me address this:

Your own statement

They knew Christ chose twelve apostles
that is the extant of what we know Christ chose

You are being very deceitful in presenting what I said~let us look at this in its context:

What type of service do we have that we could possibly choose Christ for? You say that's a stupid question, well I agree, but so are these words: "Ye have not chosen me"...if we believe Christ is teaching his disciples you have not chosen to be my apostles but I have chosen you, that would be a redundant statement on Jesus' part. They knew Christ chose twelve apostles~yet, he was reminding them they did not choose to follow Him by their own free will, but he first chosen them to be his children and to know him, which caused them to follow him! This truth they had to be reminded of.

You took my words out of the context in which they were spoken and try to use them in your favor, that's deceitful, very deceitful! Obviously context means very little to you~you should be ashamed, but most likely you are not.

I'm seriously thinking leaving you alone, and use my time on others, since time is precious and it not to be wasted on folks who resist the teachings of God's words.

I must go and address Rockson's post.

 

[TomL]

I keep telling myself, trying to reason with you to come to the knowledge of the truth is an impossible task. You are irrational, and resist the testimony of the Holy Ghost over and over again.

LOL you never come close to proving any such thing

and you ignored the point that you falsely presented my position as teaching men can believe without revelation

I stated

Sorry I never teach any such thing. The fact that you imagine that is proof of your poor reading comprehension and the irrelevance of your comments concerning the RCC

Why did I bring up Matthew 16:13-19? ................ Matthew 16:13-19~"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon ~this rock~ I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Listen to my words again, carefully:


Tom you believe this lie and so do your friends. let us listen to your voice speaking over and over again through this thread and others:

Newsflash one enters into the church through faith. It's not a lie, but your refusal to believe scripture because you have been captured by Gnostic inspired philosophies.

From post #33

What you ignored

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

These men believed temporarily now they were either unregenerate or their regeneration failed

Which would you argue for?

Post #100

What you ignored

Clearly scripture teaches man is capable of believing the gospel

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 5:45–46 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You show you do not believe scripture and term it a lie based on your gnostic inspired doctrine

Post #127

Ignoring the context

Man by nature is under the control of his evil nature of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

In times past says nothing at all about an inability to repent

Was God unaware of this disability

Revelation 2:21 (ESV) — 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality.

Post #137

Ignoring context once again

First, "freewill offering" is in the Old Testament, so this is not the New Testament. There are differences.

And ? Are you arguing freewill was lost as one passed from the old covenant to the new?

I do not see any force in this claim

It was lost at the fall of Adam and Eve! Lost under the old Covenant with our father Adam! His will became in BONDAGE to to sin and devil himself! The new man in Jesus Christ alone is FREE~created after the image of Jesus Christ by the power of God. The old man is in bondage and will always have sin in its members~that keeps God's elect from doing the will of God perfectly as they desire to do so, for that which they hate, that they do, not as a practice, but sin is mixed in with their very best effort of doing the will of God~and it grieves them deeply! But, they know there's a day coming, when they shall forever be delivered from this body of sin and death, through our Lord Jesus Christ~qwho alone wrought the victory for us.

That is your theology. It was not held by the early church pre augustine, and it is not taught in scripture

Moffatt’s New Testament 2 results

Eph 6:8	Be sure that everyone, slave or​	free, will​	be paid back by the Lord and
Philem 14	to me might come of your own​	free will​	, without any appearance of

The Lexham English Bible 1 result

Philem 14

but according to your own​

free will​

.

American Standard Version 1 result

Philem 14

not be as of necessity, but of​

free will​

.

Amplified Bible 2 results

1 Cor 9:17	For if I do this work of my own​	free will​	, then I have my pay (my reward);
James 1:18	And it was of His own [​	free] will​	that He gave us birth [as sons] by

The Amplified New Testament 2 results

1 Cor 9:17	For if I do this work of my own​	free will​	, then I have my pay (my reward);
James 1:18	And it was of His own [​	free] will​	that He gave us birth [as sons] by

Christian Standard Bible 1 result

Philem 14

of obligation, but of your own​

free will​

.

Complete Jewish Bible 2 results

John 10:18	contrary, I lay it down of my own​	free will​	. I have the power to lay it down,
2 Cor 8:3	to their means, but of their own​	free will​	they have given beyond their

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament 1 result

Philem 14

should not be forced, but of​

free will​

.

GOD’S WORD Translation 4 results

John 10:18	from me. I give my life of my own​	free will​	. I have the authority to give my
2 Cor 8:3	I assure you that by their own​	free will​	they have given all they could,
2 Cor 8:17	went to visit you by his own​	free will​	.
Philem 14	this favor for me out of your own​	free will​	without feeling forced to do it.

The Good News Translation 5 results

John 10:18	from me. I give it up of my own​	free will​	. I have the right to give it up,
2 Cor 8:3	than they could. Of their own​	free will​
2 Cor 8:17	so eager to help that of his own​	free will​	he decided to go to you.
Phil 2:7	Instead of this, of his own​	free will​	he gave up all he had, and took
Philem 14	like you to do it of your own​	free will​	. So I will not do anything unless

The Holman Christian Standard Bible 1 result

Philem 14

of obligation, but of your own​

free will​

.

Holy Bible: Evangelical Heritage Version 3 results

2 Cor 8:3	I testify that of their own​	free will​	they gave according to their
2 Cor 8:17	went to you eagerly, of his own​	free will​	.
Eph 6:8	each person, whether slave or​	free, will​	receive back from the Lord

Holy Scriptures: Tree of Life Version 2 results

2 Cor 8:3	ability, they gave of their own​	free will​	—
Philem 14	wouldn’t be by force but by​	free will​	.

International Standard Version, New Testament 3 results

John 10:18	from me; I lay it down of my own​	free will​	. I have the authority to lay it
2 Cor 8:3	I can testify that by their own​	free will​	they have given to the utmost of
2 Cor 8:17	went to visit you by his own​	free will​	.

The Message: The Bible in Contemporary Language 1 result

John 10:18	from me. I lay it down of my own​	free will​	. I have the right to lay it down;
1 Cor 9:17	εἰ γὰρ​	ἑκὼν​	τοῦτο πράσσω, μισθὸν ἔχω· εἰ δὲ
Philem 14	ἀνάγκην τὸ ἀγαθόν σου ᾖ ἀλλὰ κατὰ​	ἑκούσιον​	.
Philem 14	ἀνάγκην τὸ ἀγαθόν σου ᾖ ἀλλὰ κατὰ​	ἑκούσιον​	.

The NET Bible 1 result

John 10:18

me, but I lay it down of my own​

free will​

. I have the authority to lay it

New American Standard Bible 1 result

Philem 14

by compulsion, but of your own​

free will​

.

New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update 1 result

Philem 14

by compulsion but of your own​

free will​

.

The New English Bible 4 results

John 10:18	it; I am laying it down of my own​	free will​	. I have the right to lay it down,
Eph 6:8	good each man may do, slave or​	free, will​	be repaid him by the Lord.
Philem 14	of compulsion, but of your own​	free will​	.
1 Pet 5:2	under compulsion, but of your own​	free will​	, as God would have it; not for

New International Reader’s Version (1998) 1 result

Luke 21:28

The time when you will be set​

free will​

be very close.”

The New Jerusalem Bible 1 result

John 10:18

from me; I lay it down of my own​

free will​

, and as I have power to lay it

New Living Translation 1 result

2 Cor 8:3

And they did it of their own​

free will​

.

The New Testament in Modern English 1 result

John 10:1–18

me, but I lay it down of my own​

free will​

. I have the power to lay it down

The New Testament in Modern Speech: An Idiomatic Translation into Everyday English from the Text of “The Resultant Greek Testament” 2 results

2 Cor 8:3	power, they have of their own​	free will​	given help.
2 Cor 8:17	earnest he goes to you of his own​	free will​	.

The Revised English Bible 3 results

John 10:18	me; I am laying it down of my own​	free will​	. I have the right to lay it down,
Eph 6:8	good anyone may do, slave or​	free, will​	be repaid by the Lord.
Philem 14	of compulsion, but of your own​	free will​	.

The Revised Standard Version 2 results

2 Cor 8:3	beyond their means, of their own​	free will​	,
Philem 14	be by compulsion but of your own​	free will ​	.

English Revised Version 1 in 1 verse



Philem 14

but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will

.
Page . Exported from Logos Bible Software, 6:05 AM April 24, 2023.

Tom, I could keep going through this thread to point out you believe and teach that man of himself has the power to believe, repent, and obey the gospel apart from God first giving him the power to do so, is this not corrects?

You have multiple problems here

1 you would have to show where I have ever stated that man can believe apart from revelation. That is the lie you posted

2 you would have to read in context. You took several quotes apart their context.

3 you would have to address the scripture which supported my statements

Let me address this:

You are being very deceitful in presenting what I said~let us look at this in its context:

sorry it was your lie that I hold men capable of believing apart from revelation

You cannot defend your lie by accusing me

You took my words out of the context in which they were spoken and try to use them in your favor, that's deceitful, very deceitful! Obviously context means very little to you~you should be ashamed, but most likely you are not.

Show proof of what you claim

When I stated you falsified my position i show how, you do nothing

I'm seriously thinking leaving you alone, and use my time on others, since time is precious and it not to be wasted on folks who resist the teachings of God's words.

It's not god's word you are teaching but the perversion of it inspired by gnostic cultic thought.

 

[Kermos]

It is ironic that anyone would use Acts 16:30-31 as evidence of free will. The mistake one makes is focusing on the answer. The key to this passage is not the answer but the question. Nobody asks the question "What must I do to be saved?" unless they are moved by the Spirit of God.

Amen!

“He who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).

“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3).