An Article on free will

[civic]

Good post, Amen. Here is one of the most egregious errors people make about John 3:16

NASB 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

This is not, as many people mistakenly interpret, and invitation to believe. It is an identification of those people who shall not perish but have eternal life.

This is not "if you believe you will not perish but have eternal life". It is, "every one who is believing", that is, "these people, the ones who are believing" shall not perish but have eternal life.

YLT 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

John 3 is about the new birth, born again, born of the spirit etc......

What saith the scriptures below on the gospel of grace as the means of salvation ?

Notice the biblical order from Scripture when the new birth occurs. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ- the gospel Rom 10:17


1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

above one become born again after hearing the word of God

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

the same is said by James the new birth was through the hearing of the word of truth


John 1:12-13
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believe in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

notice John says its by those who have received Him, believed in His name that they were born again, children of God, saved.

And Paul in Romans 10 gives the same order in 8-14. It comes after one hears and believes the gospel that they are saved, born of the Spirit.

John 3 the context, illustrations, text from the OT that he would be familiar with which Jesus points to for Nicodemus.

“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” ( notice belief precedes life )

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ( notice once again belief comes before life)17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Faith/Belief precedes life. John opens his gospel with belief preceding life ( John 1:12-13 and ends the gospel with the same John 20:31 ) Jesus teaches the same in John 3.

Conclusion: Ezekiel 18 declares : “a NEW SPIRIT I WILL (future) put WITHIN them…” These predictions mean that even Ezekiel was not regenerated, nor was any man prior to Ezekiel. And Ezekiel lived near the end of the OT time period. Scripture talks about 2 kinds of life. Physical and Spiritual. What other “kind of life” does the Bible talk about other than the life we are given in the flesh when we are born of the flesh, and eternal life which we are given when we are born of the Spirit? There is no other “kind of life” taught about in the Bible. When a man is born of the eternal Spirit, by the eternal Word of God, he is given eternal life. A man is regenerated when He is made alive with Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:5). Can a man be “made alive with Jesus Christ” apart from having Jesus Christ dwelling in him? Also, Paul explicitly states, “You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit IF THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELL IN YOU. And if any man HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS.” (Rom. 8:9). We are born again THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD (1Peter 1:3). Can a man be born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ actually rose again from the dead? No so Jesus in John 3 was not talking about spiritual life in the OT but the promise of the Spirit that would come at Pentecost when His spirit would be poured out upon all who believe in Him and become born again children of God from the preaching of the gospel and receiving Him as Lord.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Kermos]

As you ignored previously the lexical data

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a, b, c, d

You will note both john 1:12 and the parallel John 5:43 appeaR

Your "lexical data" is in accord with John 1:12's lambano/elabon meaning receive regardless of active, passive, or middle voice.

The concept of receive is a one way operation. In "as many as received Him" (John 1:12), all of the following are simultaneously true:

• the many are receiving
• God is giving
• the many are not giving
• God is not receiving
• the many are recipients
• God is source
• the many have an "incoming" Jesus (from God)
• God has an "outgoing" Jesus (to the many)

The key point is that grammatical voice cannot change the semantics from "incoming" to "outgoing".

The Lord God Almighty controls the receive because Lord Jesus unavoidably comes into the many, and Christ's arrival is joyful in the many, so "joyfully receive" is the active voice concept for the many. Praise Jesus!

Sorry your gnostic inspired doctrine is what is slashing and slaughtering the apostolic testimony as you endlessly repeat the same thing over and over without a concern for rebuttal

You believe that you have the self-willed knowledge power (gnostic power) inside of yourself to (1) perceive Jesus and (2) choose Jesus and (3) obey Jesus without any interference by God - purportedly, all this practicing the truth coming to the light is wrought in you in your gnostic power.

I believe that I am entirely dependent on the Wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) to lovingly cause me (2 Corinthians 5:14) to even be able to (1) perceive King Jesus (John 3:3) and (2) for His choosing (John 15:16-19) and (3) that all my good works are wrought in God (John 15:5).

The Word of God (John 1:14) proclaims "But he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” (John 3:21).

Why must you twist scripture

Deal with what it does state

John 5:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Can you claim the other is received involutary?

Can you deny the verse by the word receive speaks of recognizing the person?

You fail to prove reception of Christ is involuntary

Thus you beg the question and simply spout your gnostic inspired doctrine

It's not a question of the voluntary or involuntary because that is on the incoming side, and the incoming side will unavoidably occur because of the definition of the word receive meaning "an unavoidable reception".

This is laughable as the active voice indicates the many actively receive him

They are doing the action but you ignorantly tried to used passive examples to define the word receive

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations of your posts as is visible contrasting your wrong with the Apostolic Right:

TomL Wrong		Apostolic Right
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as giving themselves Him, they caused Him to give them the right to become children of God, even to those who self-willed choose to believe in His name, 13 in turn causing themselves to be born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (TomL 1:10-13)		10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:10-13)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Scripture again and again and again.

You ignored the fact the lexical data quotes John 1:12 and John 5:43 as an example of this definition

So rather it is you who are deceptive here


Sorry you are conflating your theology with the text again


. There is nothing in the text which supports your claim

The many receive him, that is they recognize his person, his authority

;



There you go again deceptively substituting passive voice examples rather than active voice examples as in the text

You have been told of this but you continue with deceptive passive voice examplesv





Sorry this is just repeat deception

there is nothing in the text other than the many recognizing christs person

as we saw in the lexical data and even Calvinist commentary

But to as many as received him. That none may be retarded by this stumbling-block, that the Jews despised and rejected Christ, the Evangelist exalts above heaven the godly who believe in him; for he says that by faith they obtain this glory of being reckoned the sons of God.

John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 1; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 40.

You will note receiving Christ is equated with believing on Christ even by calvin

as does the text

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:12–13 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 1:12 (NIV) — 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

but you just ignore the text to propagate your gnostic inspired doctrine



Sorry no

John shows all who believe on Christ receive that right

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

John 1:12 (NIV) — 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—



All who believe on him receive that right

The right is to be a child of god

That happens in regeneration which only God can do and he does so when men believe

as you without thought just endlessly repeat yourself ignoring all rebuttal

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berean-apologetics.community.forum

You quoted your god Calvin, again.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant's surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

The Greek word ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive) lexicon definition is "receive", and the specific instance of ἔλαβον used by the Apostle John in John 1:12 is an active indicative aorist verb in the third person; therefore, the word ἔλαβον conveys the active concept of "joyfully" by the recipient of "receive" with the "receive" being initiated and caused by the the source, not the recipient, but truly God is the cause (John 1:12-13), so John conveys "joyfully receive" is the active meaning for ἔλαβον.

In the Greek lexicon etymology, "to be seized by" is found for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive).

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Let's follow John's blessed chain linking these people:

• John starts with the full population of the planet "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him" (John 1:10) as he builds toward the source of holiness which is "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John narrows the population to Israel only "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11).
• John further narrows the focus to a sub-population of Israel "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12)
• John equates the population of "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12) with the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John further equates the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) with the population of "believe in His name" increasing tempo about the source of holiness being"born of God" (John 1:13).
• John arrives at the source of holiness for every single one of us saints (holy ones) which is being "born of God" (John 1:13).

John's Good Message narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then further narrowing onward, so we can expand the focus starting with John's primary foundational point moving toward the secondary larger point and then the tertiary broader point and so on.

John's primary foundational point is "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) which results in John's secondary point of "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) and "children of God" (John 1:12, John 3:3-8) and "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9) which has implications for John's tertiary point "His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) which arrives at John's opening, broadest point which is the fact that "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) does not include everybody in "the world" (John 1:10).

John has the "born of God" as the first and primary position.

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• "many as received Him"
• "children of God"
• "believe in His name"
• "born of God"

See that John explicitly excludes "the will of man" as the cause for all of these.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to believe in Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to believe in Jesus.

Again, here is the passage:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation of the Word of God inquired "Brethren, what shall we do" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

The word "receive" means "unavoidably enters"; on the other hand, the word "accept" means "allowed to enter".

The work of "accept" is specifically disallowed in the passage with "nor of the will of man" because man causes not man to be "born of God" nor man causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", nor man causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The grammatical sense of the word "receive" indicates Christ "unavoidably enters" a joyfully receptive person according to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) because the Apostle indicates the "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", whom are the ones that God causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

About "receiving":

​

Man is not the cause of man receiving Christ (Luke 12:57).​

​

God is the cause of man receiving Christ (John 1:12-13).​

​

We Christians actively in thankfulness receive Christ!​

​

About "believing":

​

Man is not the cause of man believing in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-10).​

​

God is the cause of man believing in Christ (John 6:29).​

​

We Christians joyfully believe in Christ!​

​

All glory to King Jesus reigning on His Throne in the eternal Kingdom of God for His Salvation of man!!! Amen!!!

We Christians receive saving belief/faith from God our Savior (John 1:12-13, John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10)!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE MY GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS!!!

 

[TomL]

Your "lexical data" is in accord with John 1:12's lambano/elabon meaning receive regardless of active, passive, or middle voice.

The concept of receive is a one way operation. In "as many as received Him" (John 1:12), all of the following are simultaneously true:

• the many are receiving
• God is giving
• the many are not giving
• God is not receiving
• the many are recipients
• God is source
• the many have an "incoming" Jesus (from God)
• God has an "outgoing" Jesus (to the many)

The key point is that grammatical voice cannot change the semantics from "incoming" to "outgoing".

Sorry but that is what voice actually does



WHAT IS ITS VOICE?

These inflectional endings also tell you whether you are doing the action or if it is being done to you. Take the sentence, “I will make a house,” (ποιήσω οἶκον). You will understand it better if I diagram it:


Edward W. Goodrick, Do It Yourself Hebrew and Greek: A Guide to Biblical Language Tools (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1980), x.

Did you get that the many are doing the action. You are quite ignorant of greek grammar here

What action are they doing


Here you ignore the meaning given



e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a, b, c, d

You will note both john 1:12 and the parallel John 5:43 appear

both john 1:12 and John 5:43 speak of recognizing someones authority

You ignore context as well as the verse defines what it is to receive christ here

John 1:12 (NIV) — 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

The rest is simply you repeating your previous errors

ignoring voice, context and meaning

as well as a host of commentators even those of like theology with you

while you post verses with a passive voice substiture verse of a different context and disregard the context of the verse before us

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-89564

 

[Kermos]

Good post, Amen. Here is one of the most egregious errors people make about John 3:16

NASB 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

This is not, as many people mistakenly interpret, and invitation to believe. It is an identification of those people who shall not perish but have eternal life.

This is not "if you believe you will not perish but have eternal life". It is, "every one who is believing", that is, "these people, the ones who are believing" shall not perish but have eternal life.

YLT 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

All praise and glory and honor to God! Well conveyed!

Agreed, Lord Jesus was speaking of specific people known by God before the world was created (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8), and His phrase of "every one" is not the promiscuously uncertain connotation of whosoever that unsaved people use to create a false god.

As much as I like NASB, I am quite fond of the YLT, and I'm glad you quoted John 3:16 from both.

 

[TomL]

All praise and glory and honor to God! Well conveyed!

Agreed, Lord Jesus was speaking of specific people known by God before the world was created (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8), and His phrase of "every one" is not the promiscuously uncertain connotation of whosoever that unsaved people use to create a false god.

As much as I like NASB, I am quite fond of the YLT, and I'm glad you quoted John 3:16 from both.

Um there is no limiting factor in that verse and

John 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

and Gave his son for the world

which would include any unbeliever as per the parallel passage

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

 

[Kermos]

Not my god but yours as you follow his theology and I oppose it

Your "Not my god but yours as you follow his theology and I oppose it" is folly because you quote your god Calvin as support for your free-willian sovereignty of man philosophy as shown in the the very post #2,501 to which you replied.

Furthermore, your "Not my god but yours as you follow his theology and I oppose it" is false because I never quote your god Calvin as support for the Sovereignty of God, but I quote the Word of God in joyful Truth (John 14:6).

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text
The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

How logical is it that he tells them there is something they must do and then turn around and deny they are to do anything

Your whole approach is irrational and built upon an assumed theology rather than scripture

but in context the thing he tells them to do is believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

God does not believe for anyone

They must do it

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
TomL 16:30-31 (TSB 2020) - 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe according to the judgment by your own initiative in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”		Acts 16:30-31 (NASB 2020) - 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Lord eliminates your purported ability to discern according to the judgment by your own initiative the very Righteousness of God when He asked "And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (Luke 12:57), so man's will is incapable of determining the "choosing" of God to amy degree; in reality, Christ alone chooses man unto salvation (John 15:16, John 15:19) with man being the blessed receiver of God's great work. Mere man is not superior to Jesus the Lord who says "Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner'" (John 5:19) and again He mentions initiative in "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 5:30), but your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that according to the judgment by your own initiative you do choose Righteous Jesus as per your false free-willian philosophy.

The grammar is clear

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Lord Jesus Christ's sayings are perfectly clear "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" "is the work of God" (John 6:29).

You subject

verb believe in the active voice

thus they are to believe

We Christians do the believing in Christ of which Christ causes us to do because "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" "is the work of God" (John 6:29).

God is not believing

God is faithful (2 Corinthians 1:18); therefore, your "God is not believing" is false.

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

and he is not alone as much as you wish otherwise



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

and is joined by the Calvinist Barnes


Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you
Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.
Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

and other you just wish to ignore


Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.



Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

Your heart's treasure "The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28" subjugates the Word of God as inferior to the word of man, that is, your context is the traditions of man (Matthew 15:9); in other words, your treasure adulterates the Holy Word of God resulting in a replacement thing called the word of TomL.

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
TomL 6:29 (TSB 2020) - 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”		John 6:29 (NASB 2020) - 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

IT's not scripture but your false interpretation of scripture which are Garbage as you mindlessly repeat the same thing time after time

I proclaim the true and pure “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (the Word of God, John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (the Word of God, John 15:19, includes salvation) where Christ declares foundation for every Christian, but you go full tilt preaching your own interpretation while you label these quotations of the Word of God ss "garbage" (proof post #1,116).

No Christian calls the Word of God "garbage", and we find you calling the Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) that God had me proclaim to you "garbage" about this wonderful Word of God (proof post #1,116)!!!

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

All this has been addressed repeatedly and you bring nothing new but the same old assumptions

Again Christs choice of his apostles

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

You preach "His disciples were given to him by the Father" respecting John 15:16-19; meanwhile, Lord Jesus proclaims "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30).

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
since the Father gave you to Me, then for Me to say "I chose you" is meaningless (TomL 15:16)		you did not choose Me, but I chose you (John 15:16)
I chose nothing (TomL 15:19, excludes salvation)		I chose you out of the world (John 15:19, includes salvation)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

You preach "clearly Christ chose his apostles" and nobody else respecting John 15:16-19.

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
you apostles only did not choose Me, but everyone else can choose Me, and I chose youfor apostleship only, but I choose nobody else (TomL 15:16)		you did not choose Me, but I chose you (John 15:16)
I chose you exclusively as apostles for no other purpose (TomL 15:19, excludes salvation)		I chose you out of the world (John 15:19, includes salvation)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

continued to post #2,567

 

[Kermos]

continued from post #2,566

You responded “Yes” to the question “Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, TomL?” (proof post #576) when John 15:14-19 was quoted in full at the time.

Let’s take a look at Lord Jesus Christ’s usage of “you” with which the above question and answer pertains:

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
(John 15:15-16 (links to KJV, NASB1995, and YLT)))
​

You express confused thoughts about the population of Christ’s “you” in the passage. I remind you for this exchange that I consider you to equivocate “apostles” whenever you write “disciples”.

Your response of “Yes” establishes your personal claim of being part of the “you” population inside of God’s blessing of “I have called you friends” (John 15:15), but then in the continuation of the very same blessing, your heart’s “it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen” eliminates you, TomL, from being a part of the “you” population inside of God’s blessing of “I chose you” (John 15:16); therefore, you are not a chosen friend of Jesus according to your own self-willed heart’s treasure which leavens your whole loaf of free-willian philosophy (Matthew 16:6).

In effect, your “Yes” and “it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen” expresses a confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) “Yes No” concept about the audience represented in Christ’s “you” recorded in John 15:14-19.

Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.

Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

You preach "As for your verses First you simply repeat Christ choice of his disciples but nothing states Christ chose them for salvation" respecting John 15:16-19 (proof post #1,116).

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
you choose Me for salvation, but I chose not you for salvation (TomL 15:16)		you did not choose Me, but I chose you (John 15:16)
I chose not you out of the world (TomL 15:19, excludes salvation)		I chose you out of the world (John 15:19, includes salvation)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Nothing, absolutely nothing you wrote eliminates the Truth (John 14:6) that Lord Jesus Christ impacts every disciple in all time with His blessed sayings “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (the Word of God, John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (the Word of God, John 15:19, includes salvation).

Here is more from the same proof post #1,116. You propounded "As for your verses First you simply repeat Christ choice of his disciples but nothing states Christ chose them unconditionally for salvation" respecting John 15:16-19, and again I perceive that you switched to use "disciples" as an in-situ replacement for "apostles", yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your "Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion" as recorded in post #645 of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter "men who have accompanied us all the time" (Acts 1:21) while Peter was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were a part of the audience in the room when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter testified the Apostolic Right:

TomL Wrong		Apostolic Right
21 Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have not accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - 22 do not concern yourselves whether from the beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23 So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. (TomL 1:21-23)		21 Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - 22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23 So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. (Acts 1:21-23)

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ's "you" in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Christ uses "you" to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ's salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your heart's exclusion of us Christians from Lord Jesus Christ's blessed sayings is your false free-willian philosophy.

Your unscriptural preaching that belief in Christ is a work of man has been repeatedly proven false by the Word of God in this thread.

Every Christian Believing In The Son Whom The Father Has Sent Is The Work Of God​

Lord Jesus Christ says in clear, precise, and pure language: “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).

A voice from Heaven was heard, saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5), and we Christians hear Christ.

Let's examine the context of the people's word, and, more importantly, the Word of God speaks the Truth (John 14:6) without human interpretation.

Let’s review the exchange:

they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
(John 6:28-33)
​

The people asked about their own work respecting salvation when they inquired “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28), yet Christ rightly removed man’s work from anyplace respecting salvation when He responded “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

The people failed to understand, just like free-willian philosophers, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29). Do not be deceived, "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The people followed up by asking/injecting the work of man, again, with “Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness” (John 6:31) in a manner that free-willian philosophers listen to the people instead of "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Lord shifts the focus from man’s purported control to God’s Sovereign control, this second time in the same exchange, with “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
(John 6:32-33). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

Behold, the Word of God establishes that faith/belief is given by God without any contribution by man (John 6:29) and, in like manner, life is given by the bread of God without any contribution by man (John 6:32-33).

PRAISE JESUS FOR HIS LOVINGKINDNESS!!!

In Truth (John 14:6), the Christ of us Christians intensifies that God works man regarding saving faith/belief, not man working, but truly the Bread of Life (John 6:35) as exclusive Savior!

Free-willian Philosophers convey things like “They obviously understood jesus to be saying what God requires of you is that you believe” (the word of TomL, see post #1,818) about the people recorded in John 6:28-33 in order for the free-willian heart’s treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) to justify adulterating the Word of God resulting in “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man, see Matthew 15:9).

The Lord uses the continuing exchange to illumine the people's, and free-willian, ignorance. The Word of God is precise and pure “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) - "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

This examination needs to expand to the larger passage of "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (John 6:27), but this would be incomplete without the intervening passage culminating with "Then they said to Him, 'Lord, always give us this bread.' Jesus said to them, 'I am the Bread of Life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst'" (John 6:34-35).

Do not be confused about the "who comes to Me" in John 6:35 because the Lord says "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21), so we Christians work for God because God wrings our work/deeds out of us!

In John 6:27 and John 6:34-35, Jesus says He is our Christian's food (John 6:27), our Christian Bread of Life (John 6:35). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Christ of us Christians says "I am the Living Bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh" (John 6:51).

We Christians work (John 6:27) for the Bread of Life (John 6:35) according to the Power of God (John 3:21), so we proclaim the glorious King of the Kingdom of God in the Power of God to the world; therefore, this "proclaiming" is working for the food enduring to eternal life (John 6:27). Christ gives Himself, the Bread of Life, to us Christians for we Christians partake in the food of the Body and Blood of Christ, so our wonderful Leader sustains and strengthens us for the works prepared for us beforehand by God to the Glory of God! God has set His seal on us Christians, that is, our seal is our very believing in the Son whom the Father has sent by the Grace of God for the Glory of God!

Praise the Lord for He explains our Christian work (John 6:27) is to eat the Bread of Life (John 6:35, John 6:51). Christ says "work" "for the food" (John 6:27) which means "work for Christ" as in fruit of the Spirit of the Living God (see bearing fruit in John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and Galatians 5:22-23), so Christ says not that believing in Christ is the work of man, so this means free-willian philosopher's "He told them there was a certain type of work they were to do and it was the work of faith so stop trying to twist the passage and say it wasn't so" (the word of Rockson regarding John 6:27, see post #1,847) is false according to the Word of God!

Free-willian Philosophers are under the delusion that "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (tthe Word of God, John 6:27) in their hearts translates to "Do not work for the food which perishes, but YOU HAVE THE ABILITY IN YOUR OWN INITIATIVE TO WORK for the food which endures to eternal life, SO YOU MUST CHOOSE WHETHER TO ACCEPT THE FOOD THAT the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (the word of free-willians) in spite of the Word of God sayings “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right” (Luke 12:57) and
“you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

Free-willian's hearts even subtract "which the Son of Man will give to you" (John 6:27) about the food for which Jesus says "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). Jesus clearly states the righteous work of man is Fruit of the Spirit because the food is given by God to man which is another declaration about the exclusive power of God in the salvation of man. A crucial concept established by Jesus in John 6:27 is that the only people to receive Jesus' food are the people to whom Jesus gives the food, but free-willian philosophy ends up with people in hell who are failures of "the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). This paragraph's explanation is all in the recorded Word of God in John 6:27 without stepping to another verse. "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Word in John 6:27 refers to the man's work which is truly the act of God in man; on the other hand, the Word in John 6:29 refers to man's belief which is truly the act of God in man.

In the first moment (John 6:27), Lord Jesus explains the outward evidence of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and in the second moment (John 6:29), Jesus explains the inward event of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and this Father declares "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-willian Philosophy is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND 4&ctx OF THE ONE TRUE FAITH!!!

 

[TomL]

continued from post #2,566

You responded “Yes” to the question “Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, TomL?” (proof post #576) when John 15:14-19 was quoted in full at the time.

Let’s take a look at Lord Jesus Christ’s usage of “you” with which the above question and answer pertains:

​

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you​

(John 15:15-16 (links to KJV, NASB1995, and YLT)))​

​

You express confused thoughts about the population of Christ’s “you” in the passage. I remind you for this exchange that I consider you to equivocate “apostles” whenever you write “disciples”.

Your response of “Yes” establishes your personal claim of being part of the “you” population inside of God’s blessing of “I have called you friends” (John 15:15), but then in the continuation of the very same blessing, your heart’s “it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen” eliminates you, TomL, from being a part of the “you” population inside of God’s blessing of “I chose you” (John 15:16); therefore, you are not a chosen friend of Jesus according to your own self-willed heart’s treasure which leavens your whole loaf of free-willian philosophy (Matthew 16:6).

In effect, your “Yes” and “it was Christ words [exclusively] to the disciples messengers he had chosen” expresses a confused (1 Corinthians 14:33) “Yes No” concept about the audience represented in Christ’s “you” recorded in John 15:14-19.

Sorry that is a logical fallacy

if all disciples are his friends the apostles would be also

John 15:16 is addressing his apostles who he had chosen

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

 

[TomL]

Your "Not my god but yours as you follow his theology and I oppose it" is folly because you quote your god Calvin as support for your free-willian sovereignty of man philosophy as shown in the the very post #2,501 to which you replied.

Furthermore, your "Not my god but yours as you follow his theology and I oppose it" is false because I never quote your god Calvin as support for the Sovereignty of God, but I quote the Word of God in joyful Truth (John 14:6).

Try reading again. You don't quote him but you follow his doctrine

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
TomL 16:30-31 (TSB 2020) - 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe according to the judgment by your own initiative in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”		Acts 16:30-31 (NASB 2020) - 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Lord eliminates your purported ability to discern according to the judgment by your own initiative the very Righteousness of God when He asked "And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (Luke 12:57), so man's will is incapable of determining the "choosing" of God to amy degree; in reality, Christ alone chooses man unto salvation (John 15:16, John 15:19) with man being the blessed receiver of God's great work. Mere man is not superior to Jesus the Lord who says "Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner'" (John 5:19) and again He mentions initiative in "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 5:30), but your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that according to the judgment by your own initiative you do choose Righteous Jesus as per your false free-willian philosophy.



Lord Jesus Christ's sayings are perfectly clear "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" "is the work of God" (John 6:29).



We Christians do the believing in Christ of which Christ causes us to do because "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" "is the work of God" (John 6:29).

same old tired repeat arguments which so not deal with these facts

Jesus told them they must work

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

right off the bat your theology which holds there is nothing they are to do is shown to be error.

2nd Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?

29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1

1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

τὰ ἔργα τοῦ θεοῦ must not be taken to mean ‘the works which God works,’ but, as in Jer. 48:10 (31:10 LXX): 1 Cor. 15:58, the works well pleasing to God.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 760–761.

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

 

[Kermos]

Um there is no limiting factor in that verse and

John 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

and Gave his son for the world

which would include any unbeliever as per the parallel passage

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Oh the utter blindness expressed in that post! @The Rogue Tomato, do you see the "believes" in John 3:16-17 which is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)? Do you also see that the only way for man to say that you believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of man is to deny the work of God?

TomL, your John 3:16-17 "parallel passage" of John 12:47 fails to state that you believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of man. “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) remains the governing passage for John 3:16-17.

TomL, your John 3:16-17 "parallel passage" of John 12:47 has a true "parallel passage" which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17, and this true "parallel passage" is "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18).

TomL, the true "parallel passage" is in the same dialog " he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” (John 3:21).

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

 

[TomL]

Oh the utter blindness expressed in that post! @The Rogue Tomato, do you see the "believes" in John 3:16-17 which is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)? Do you also see that the only way for man to say that you believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of man is to deny the work of God?

TomL, your John 3:16-17 "parallel passage" of John 12:47 fails to state that you believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of man. “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) remains the governing passage for John 3:16-17.

TomL, your John 3:16-17 "parallel passage" of John 12:47 has a true "parallel passage" which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17, and this true "parallel passage" is "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18).

TomL, the true "parallel passage" is in the same dialog " he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” (John 3:21).

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

sorry this is the same sad argument you have posted over and over ignoring reply

Jesus told them they must work

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”




2nd Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?

29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1

1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

τὰ ἔργα τοῦ θεοῦ must not be taken to mean ‘the works which God works,’ but, as in Jer. 48:10 (31:10 LXX): 1 Cor. 15:58, the works well pleasing to God.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 760–761.

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

and in this case the present subject

Um there is no limiting factor in that verse and

John 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

and Gave his son for the world

which would include any unbeliever as per the parallel passage

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

which your comments do nothing to address

 

[Kermos]

Same repeated twisting of scripture dealt with previously

John 6:29

Jesus told them they must work

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

you ignored the commentary of your Calvinist peers

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.



Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Tetament commentary D.A. Carson

John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —

The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary

​

---

[1] D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.


The work of Greek exegetes

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?
29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1
1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

rather than deal with

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe is the answer to what must i do

Not the nothing "God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

You simply asserted your view

you did the same here

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

they were to repent

What shall we do is answered by you must repent again not the nothing

"God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

John 15:16

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

Born again

It is through belief in the gospel

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God.

Free-will philosophy includes the man idol foundation that, by free-will, man can choose to be evil or good, even the ability for a natural man to free-will choose Jesus Christ unto the good of saving himself from the wrath of God.

Here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

 

[TomL]

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God.

Free-will philosophy includes the man idol foundation that, by free-will, man can choose to be evil or good, even the ability for a natural man to free-will choose Jesus Christ unto the good of saving himself from the wrath of God.

Here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

Sorry you are in denial

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joshua 24:14–25 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. 23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel. 24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey. 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.



What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?

finally


John 6:29

Jesus told them they must work

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

you ignored the commentary of your Calvinist peers

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.



Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Tetament commentary D.A. Carson

John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —

The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary

---

[1] D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.


The work of Greek exegetes

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?
29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1
1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

rather than deal with

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe is the answer to what must i do

Not the nothing "God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

You simply asserted your view

you did the same here

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

they were to repent

What shall we do is answered by you must repent again not the nothing

"God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

John 15:16

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

Born again

It is through belief in the gospel

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[Kermos]

Where did you address the fact

John 12:47 (ESV) — 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

That any unbeliever is part of the world Christ came to save

Christ does not judge any unbelievers because he came to save the world

From this verse we see any unbeliever is part of the world Christ came to save

You jumped to John 12:47 which is a different dialog than John 3:1-21, so let's look at your thoughts in detail.

God caused me to address your specific free-willian philosophical point by me quoting Christ, but you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which you quoted is directly adjacent to John 12:48).

Your heart set the "world" equal to "all unbelievers everywhere in all time" when you wrote "Christ does not judge any unbelievers because he came to save the world" along with your later paragraph of "Thus we see Christ died for all"; more specifically, your heart equivocates "world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (TomL 12:47)		If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.

See your heart has your "world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).

So your doctrine of limited atonement is shown to be false

According to your Free-willian Prophecy, the following represents dead in sin unbelievers:

• if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must reward Bob with eternal life.
• if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person obtaining eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.

So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.

Since I previously told you that I believe in complete atonement (proof post #1,802), then your nonsensical "your doctrine of limited atonement is shown to be false" is foolishness.

Back to another dark consequence of your free-willian philosophy "Thus we see Christ died for all" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ's coverage of that unbeliever's sin failed to cover that unbeliever's sin (see the Alice example above).

Your belief in failure aonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he came to save.

Lets look at a verse parallel, to John 12:47 with a bit of context

The saving "believing" concept in John 3:16-17 is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

The only way for man truthfully to say that you believe in Him whom He has sent is because that you believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of God.

John 3:16–17 (ESV) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

God came to save the world having loved the world and given his son for it

Thus we see Christ died for all

But you didn't address what the verse states and simply denied Christs words because you misinterpret scripture

failing to understand Christy did not just state he came to save the world but he also outlined the conditions under which he would save

John 3:16–18 (NASB 2020) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Lets look at the term "world" in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17 of which you quoted first:

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(John 3:17-18)
​

Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your free-willian philosophy as demonstrated above).

The dead in sin must be born of God in order to perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 in the same dialog.

Your free-willian philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to have life in Christ.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, THE MIGHTY GOD!!!

 

[civic]

Acts 17:27
to seek God, if perhaps indeed they might palpate for Him, and might find Him. And indeed, He is not far from each one of us.

The gospel and salvation is for everyone

 

[TomL]

You jumped to John 12:47 which is a different dialog than John 3:1-21, so let's look at your thoughts in detail.

God caused me to address your specific free-willian philosophical point by me quoting Christ, but you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which you quoted is directly adjacent to John 12:48).

Your heart set the "world" equal to "all unbelievers everywhere in all time" when you wrote "Christ does not judge any unbelievers because he came to save the world" along with your later paragraph of "Thus we see Christ died for all"; more specifically, your heart equivocates "world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (TomL 12:47)		If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.

See your heart has your "world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).



According to your Free-willian Prophecy, the following represents dead in sin unbelievers:

• if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must reward Bob with eternal life.
• if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person obtaining eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.

So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.

Since I previously told you that I believe in complete atonement (proof post #1,802), then your nonsensical "your doctrine of limited atonement is shown to be false" is foolishness.

Back to another dark consequence of your free-willian philosophy "Thus we see Christ died for all" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ's coverage of that unbeliever's sin failed to cover that unbeliever's sin (see the Alice example above).

Your belief in failure aonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he came to save.



The saving "believing" concept in John 3:16-17 is governed by “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

The only way for man truthfully to say that you believe in Him whom He has sent is because that you believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of God.



Lets look at the term "world" in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17 of which you quoted first:

​

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.​

(John 3:17-18)​

​

Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your free-willian philosophy as demonstrated above).

The dead in sin must be born of God in order to perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 in the same dialog.

Your free-willian philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to have life in Christ.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, THE MIGHTY GOD!!!

To start with you ignored the logic

John 12:47 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.


That any unbeliever is part of the world Christ came to save

Christ does not judge any unbelievers because he came to save the world

From this verse we see any unbeliever is part of the world Christ came to save

That in itself refutes your theology of limited atonement.

Where do you address this refutation of your theology?

Then you ignore the fact that John repeats the same thought here

John 3:17 (NASB 2020) — 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.

as he did

John 12:47 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

rather you rewrite the argument to suit yourself and appeal to the same tired argument you presented so many times while ignoring rebuttal

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

Then it seems you really have nom idea what the doctrine of limited atonement means when you say

Since I previously told you that I believe in complete atonement (proof post #1,802), then your nonsensical "your doctrine of limited atonement is shown to be false" is foolishness.

No what is shown is you do not know what you are talking about

Then you absurdly state

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

ignoring John 12:47

John 12:47 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

and the fact that Jesus does not judge any unbeliever because he did not come to judge the world

that obviously makes any unbeliever a part of the world he did not come to judge but to save

ignoring also the parallel statement


John 3:17 (NASB 2020) — 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.

thus ignoring the obvious faith the world is populated by both believers and unbelievers

and a host of lexicons



4. world(people) — all of the people of the world understood according to the place in which human beings live. Related Topics: People; World.
Jn 1:10 ὁ κόσμος
Jn 3:16 Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν
Jn 8:12 Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ φῶς τοῦ κόσμου·
Jn 17:6 οὓς ἔδωκάς μοι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου.
2 Pe 2:5 ἀρχαίου κόσμου οὐκ ἐφείσατο,
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καὶ ἀγγέλοις κ. ἀνθρώποις, 1 Co. 4:9 [W. 127 (121)]; particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first So in Sap. [e.g. 10:1]): Mt. 13:38; 18:7; Mk. 14:9; Jn. 1:10, 29, [36 L in br.]; 3:16 sq.; 6:33, 51; 8:26; 12:47

Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm’s Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (New York: Harper & Brothers., 1889), 357.

of the human inhabitants of the world: Mt 5:14; 13:38, Mk 14:9, Jo 1:10; 4:42; 12:47,

G. Abbott-Smith, A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament (New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1922), 255.

(E) The world is the object of judgment and saving mercy (John 1:29; 3:16–19; 4:42; 6:33, 51; 8:12, 26; 9:5; 12:46, 47;

Spiros Zodhiates, The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament (Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000).

 

[Kermos]

As we shall see throughout this post,, TomL declares and demands that his faith is not of the Author and Perfecter of the one faith, the Faithful One Jesus Christ.

LOL Calvin is your God. It is he your namesake comes from. It is his theology you believe and propagate. He got it from Augustine who got it from the Manichean gnostics

Calvin, DA Carson, Robertson the Geneva bible notes are all your peers - Your gods, which teach the same determination as were preached by the gnostic cults and currently propagated by those of your theology

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

In the very recent past post #2,572, we find you exalting your god Calvin as support for your free-willian philosophical sovereignty of man.

In the distant past post #2,092, we find you exalting your god Calvin as support for your free-willian philosophical sovereignty of man.

In no post am I found quoting Calvin for the Christ's Sovereignty of God, so your "Calvin is your God" is false and foolishness.

God causes me to quote the pure Word of God treasure about the Sovereignty of God:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

I reject your god Calvin, of whom you take as your own word again and again and again, even Calvinists such as your god Carson; therefore, in Truth (John 14:6), you number yourself among "Calvinists" because you "tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text".

Yes the error is due to Manichean gnosticism not Christ

You believe that you have the self-willed knowledge power (gnostic power) inside of yourself to (1) perceive Jesus and (2) choose Jesus and (3) obey Jesus without any interference by God – purportedly, all this practicing the truth coming to the light is wrought in you in your gnostic power.

I believe that I am entirely dependent on the Wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) to lovingly cause me (2 Corinthians 5:14) to even be able to (1) perceive King Jesus (John 3:3) and (2) for His choosing (John 15:16-19) and (3) that all my good works are wrought in God (John 15:5).

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts. The difference between you and I:

TomL Believes		Kermos Believes
he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in man. (The Traditions of Men, TomL 3:21)		he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God. (The Word of God, John 3:21)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Man-driven gnosticism is on the left hand side of the above table, and God driven knowledge is on the right hand side of the above table.

Christ lays the fault at their feet, They do not believe. He does not say God withheld faith from them

but they believe not

not thas

He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (the Word of God, John 3:18).

Just as God caused me to proclaim to you previously:

Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18.
​

Your free-willian philosophy remains false.

deal with the argument

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

but the phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ

John 6:32–36 (KJV 1900) — 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.


They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Your heart's treasure "John 6:28 establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God John 6:29" subjugates the Word of God as inferior to the word of man, that is, your context is the traditions of man (Matthew 15:9); in other words, your treasure adulterates the Holy Word of God resulting in a replacement thing called the word of TomL.

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29)		Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that His sayings are pure, clear, and precise “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you practice lawlessness with your "Utter nonsense" about the Word of God recorded in John 6:29 (proof post #2,126), and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

You heart's faulty redefinition of Christ's "the work of God" into your "the work of man" by way of

John 6:28 (NASB 1995) — 28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

is your man generated deception because Lord Jesus Christ eliminates man as a cause factor because Christ's fully complete definition of saving faith/belief occurs in this single sentence:

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29)
​

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

You do not receive "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29) which declares who God is and who man is.

The King of Glory's the work of God specifically includes God's work while specifically excluding "the work of man"; therefore, every mention of saving faith/belief in the Holy Scripture is governed by King Jesus' blessed definition.

Since you wrote “In context its meaning is that which God requires of man” (the word of TomL), then your heart converts John 6:29 into “This is the work of man that God requires of you, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man as authored by TomL, see Matthew 15:9); therefore, you disobey the voice from Heaven saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5) because you listen to man instead of listening to the beloved Son.

The full and complete context of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Author and Perfecter of the faith, John 6:29) is specifically “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

As is evident, you call “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) your abominable "Utter nonsense".

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

 

[TomL]

As we shall see throughout this post,, TomL declares and demands that his faith is not of the Author and Perfecter of the one faith, the Faithful One Jesus Christ.



In the very recent past post #2,572, we find you exalting your god Calvin as support for your free-willian philosophical sovereignty of man.

In the distant past post #2,092, we find you exalting your god Calvin as support for your free-willian philosophical sovereignty of man.

In no post am I found quoting Calvin for the Christ's Sovereignty of God, so your "Calvin is your God" is false and foolishness.

God causes me to quote the pure Word of God treasure about the Sovereignty of God:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

I reject your god Calvin, of whom you take as your own word again and again and again, even Calvinists such as your god Carson; therefore, in Truth (John 14:6), you number yourself among "Calvinists" because you "tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text".



You believe that you have the self-willed knowledge power (gnostic power) inside of yourself to (1) perceive Jesus and (2) choose Jesus and (3) obey Jesus without any interference by God – purportedly, all this practicing the truth coming to the light is wrought in you in your gnostic power.

I believe that I am entirely dependent on the Wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) to lovingly cause me (2 Corinthians 5:14) to even be able to (1) perceive King Jesus (John 3:3) and (2) for His choosing (John 15:16-19) and (3) that all my good works are wrought in God (John 15:5).

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts. The difference between you and I:

TomL Believes		Kermos Believes
he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in man. (The Traditions of Men, TomL 3:21)		he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God. (The Word of God, John 3:21)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Man-driven gnosticism is on the left hand side of the above table, and God driven knowledge is on the right hand side of the above table.



He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (the Word of God, John 3:18).

Just as God caused me to proclaim to you previously:

​

Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18.​

​

Your free-willian philosophy remains false.



Your heart's treasure "John 6:28 establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God John 6:29" subjugates the Word of God as inferior to the word of man, that is, your context is the traditions of man (Matthew 15:9); in other words, your treasure adulterates the Holy Word of God resulting in a replacement thing called the word of TomL.

Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29)		Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29)

And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that His sayings are pure, clear, and precise “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you practice lawlessness with your "Utter nonsense" about the Word of God recorded in John 6:29 (proof post #2,126), and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

You heart's faulty redefinition of Christ's "the work of God" into your "the work of man" by way of

is your man generated deception because Lord Jesus Christ eliminates man as a cause factor because Christ's fully complete definition of saving faith/belief occurs in this single sentence:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

You do not receive "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29) which declares who God is and who man is.

The King of Glory's the work of God specifically includes God's work while specifically excluding "the work of man"; therefore, every mention of saving faith/belief in the Holy Scripture is governed by King Jesus' blessed definition.

Since you wrote “In context its meaning is that which God requires of man” (the word of TomL), then your heart converts John 6:29 into “This is the work of man that God requires of you, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man as authored by TomL, see Matthew 15:9); therefore, you disobey the voice from Heaven saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5) because you listen to man instead of listening to the beloved Son.

The full and complete context of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Author and Perfecter of the faith, John 6:29) is specifically “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

As is evident, you call “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) your abominable "Utter nonsense".

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

Same old repeated comments. Calvin and yourself hold to the same doctrine

And more than Calvin are seen in opposition to your doctrine

and john 6:29 has been addressed repeaded

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

 

[Kermos]

These were your words

Actually it looks like you are

So you will admit repentance precedes regeneration?

Thanks for quoting:

​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".​

​

As seen above, I believe God changes us Christians; in other words, the Word of God changes us.

As seen in your post, you believe you free-willians change yourselves; in other words, your self-will changes you.

The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance

Acts 2:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Thanks for quoting.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
38 Peter said to them, “Repent according to your own initiative to judge righteously, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as self-willed choose the Lord our God.” (TomL 2:38-39)		38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” (Acts 2:38-39)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Peter spoke of event relation, not event sequence, with respect to repent, baptized, and the Holy Spirit.

In fact, the promise of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38-39) is only for persons that God chooses to produce repentance; otherwise, the promise of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38-39) is a broken promise as exhibited in your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" because God breaks the promise of the Holy Spirit for every unrepentant person; therefore, you portray God as a liar.

Notice:

​

The Lord eliminates your purported ability to discern rightly according to the judgment by your own initiative the very Righteousness of God when He asked “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?” (Luke 12:57), so man’s will is incapable of determining the “choosing” of God to amy degree; in reality, Christ alone chooses man unto salvation (John 15:16, John 15:19) with man being the blessed receiver of God’s great work. Mere man is not superior to Jesus the Lord who says “Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner'” (John 5:19) and again He mentions initiative in “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me” (John 5:30), but your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that according to the judgment by your own initiative you do choose Righteous Jesus as per your false free-willian philosophy.​

​

Your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" is false as per Acts 2:38.

also

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Regeneration make alive

repentance unto life means repentance precedes it.

Thanks for quoting.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified themselves, saying, "Then indeed, also, we have given first to ourselves repentance then second to the gift of the Holy Spirit." (TomL 11:18)		And having heard these things, they were silent and glorified God, saying, "Then indeed, also, God has given to the Gentiles repentance to life." (Acts 11:18)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The Apostles literally testified "God has given to the Gentiles repentance"
(Acts 11:18), so your post's "Still nothing there which shows it is other than man who causes to repent" is false free-willian philosophy.

In fact, the life (Acts 11:18) is life in Christ; otherwise, a broken free-willian philosophy results as exhibited in your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" because the Apostles do not say what you say.

Your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" is false as per Acts 11:18.

2 Corinthians 7:8–10 (KJV 1900) — 8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. 9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

2 Corinthians 7:8–10 (ESV) — 8 For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it—though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. 9 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

but it does not say God produces it

it does say godly sorrow or grief does

λύπη (Root: λυπη, LN: 25.272; noun, nominative, singular, feminine)
grief, sorrow
Contained in: Segment Clause
Syntactic Force: Subject

Words That Modify λύπη
• articular relation: The word λύπη is modified by ἡ (article) in 2Co 7:10, word 1 (ἡ is outside of the current clausal unit).

μετάνοιαν (Root: νους, LN: 41.52; noun, accusative, singular, feminine)
repentance
Contained in: Segment Clause
Syntactic Force: Direct object


Albert L. Lukaszewski, Mark Dubis, and J. Ted Blakley, The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament, SBL Edition: Expansions and Annotations (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2011), 2 Co 7:10.


You will note grief or sorrow is the subject which produces repentance

God is not the subject





LOL You are the one following Calvinist theology.

God is not going to repent for you. It is something you must do


Once again the verse does not support your claim

it is grief or sorrow which makes for repentance -

2 Corinthians 7:8–10 (ESV) — 8 For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it—though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. 9 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

but it does not say God produces it

it does say godly sorrow or grief does

λύπη (Root: λυπη, LN: 25.272; noun, nominative, singular, feminine)
grief, sorrow
Contained in: Segment Clause
Syntactic Force: Subject

Words That Modify λύπη
• articular relation: The word λύπη is modified by ἡ (article) in 2Co 7:10, word 1 (ἡ is outside of the current clausal unit).

μετάνοιαν (Root: νους, LN: 41.52; noun, accusative, singular, feminine)
repentance
Contained in: Segment Clause
Syntactic Force: Direct object


Albert L. Lukaszewski, Mark Dubis, and J. Ted Blakley, The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament, SBL Edition: Expansions and Annotations (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2011), 2 Co 7:10.


You will note grief or sorrow is the subject which produces repentance

God is not the subject

The phrase "the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God" is the whole grammatical subject in the sentence "For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

The phrase "the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God" is similar to the phrase “the work of God” in the sentence “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Word of God, John 6:29).

The phrase "the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God" denotes truly "the work of God" concept; in other words; "the sorrow" is "the work of God".

Because of this Truth (John 14:6), we Christians find the work of God produces a repentance without regret (2 Corinthians 7:10); on the other hand, free-willians are left with the sorrow of the world produces death (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Still nothing there which shows it is other than man who is to repent and that it is man's responsibility

Revelation 2:20–21 (KJV 1900) — 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Thanks for quoting.

Your post's "Still nothing there which shows it is other than man who causes to repent" is false free-willian philosophy with respect to Revelation 2:20–21.

Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Thanks for quoting.

Your post's "Still nothing there which shows it is other than man who causes to repent" is false free-willian philosophy with respect to Matthew 12:41.

Matthew 11:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

Thanks for quoting.

Your post's "Still nothing there which shows it is other than man who causes to repent" is false free-willian philosophy with respect to Matthew 11:20.

Revelation 9:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Thanks for quoting.

Your post's "Still nothing there which shows it is other than man who causes to repent" is false free-willian philosophy with respect to Revelation 9:20.

Lord Jesus declares that God controls right repentance with “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25). Jesus your Name is Life and Living Water - blessing and honor, strength and glory and power be to You, the only wise King.

In your self-willed “wise and intelligent" state, you believe you produce your own repentance.

We children of God believe God reveals himself to us children so Our Father produces repentance in us children.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts represented in your posts as is visible contrasting your wrong with the Apostolic Right:

TomL Wrong		Apostolic Right
8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - 9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [cause yourself] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] man, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10 For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] man produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 TomL 7:8-10)		8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - 9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10 For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 Corinthians 7:8-10)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Scripture again and again and again.

You really resist the below quoted Holy Scripture.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

​

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).​

​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HOLY AND LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[TomL]

Thanks for quoting:

​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".​

Lets include the context

These were your words

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

It appears you have believers being regenerated then repenting

​

As seen above, I believe God changes us Christians; in other words, the Word of God changes us.

As seen in your post, you believe you free-willians change yourselves; in other words, your self-will changes you.

to repent is man's responsibility

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The gift of the holy Spirit follows after repentance
and repentance is through the word of God which convicts us

You present my position in a deceptive manner

Thanks for quoting.

Your adulteration of Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL traditions of men		Apostolic testimony
38 Peter said to them, “Repent according to your own initiative to judge righteously, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as self-willed choose the Lord our God.” (TomL 2:38-39)		38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” (Acts 2:38-39)

And so go your adulterations of Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Kermos gnostic tradition

38 Peter said to them, “If God sovereignly and irresistibly causes you to repent and determines each of you to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will unconditionally determine
(Kermos 2:38-39)

Peter spoke of event relation, not event sequence, with respect to repent, baptized, and the Holy Spirit.

Sorry you are in denial

repentance precedes being baptized and repentance precedes receiving the gift of the holy Spirit

Do you have anything other than bald denial of the text to offer

In fact, the promise of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38-39) is only for persons that God chooses to produce repentance; otherwise, the promise of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38-39) is a broken promise as exhibited in your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" because God breaks the promise of the Holy Spirit for every unrepentant person; therefore, you portray God as a liar.

Your reading comprehension and logic seems to be seriously askew and you contradict yourself to boot

First you state the promise is only for those who repent

then you state God breaks his promise if he does not give the holy Spirit to the unrepentant

Hello

There is no promise of the holy Spirit for the non repentant, and you seem to not know what you are talking about

Notice:

​

The Lord eliminates your purported ability to discern rightly according to the judgment by your own initiative the very Righteousness of God when He asked “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?” (Luke 12:57),​

Sorry there goes your confused thought processes again

Christ is telling them to judge what is right, not telling them cannot do so

so man’s will is incapable of determining the “choosing” of God to amy degree; in reality,

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joshua 24:15–24 (KJV 1900) — 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. 23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel. 24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.

scripture does not support your claim

Christ alone chooses man unto salvation (John 15:16, John 15:19) with man being the blessed receiver of God’s great work. Mere man is not superior to Jesus the Lord who says “Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner'” (John 5:19) and again He mentions initiative in “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me” (John 5:30), but your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that according to the judgment by your own initiative you do choose Righteous Jesus as per your false free-willian philosophy.

You conflated Christ choice of his apostles with the giving of his disciples by the father

The father giving Christ his disciples

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything which You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on the behalf of those whom You have given Me, because they are Yours; 10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11 I am no longer going to be in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name, which You have given Me; and I guarded them, and not one of them perished except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

Jesus choosing his apostles

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”



Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.



But I chose you (ἀλλʼ ἐγω ἐξελεξαμην ὑμας [all’ egō exelexamēn humas]). First aorist middle indicative of ἐκλεγω [eklegō]. See this same verb and tense used for the choice of the disciples by Christ (6:70; 13:18; 15:19). Jesus recognizes his own responsibility in the choice after a night of prayer (Luke 6:13).11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 15:16.



12 In these days he went out to the mountain to pray, and all night he continued in prayer to God. 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles:

True, the subject now in hand is not the ordinary election of believers, by which they are adopted to be the children of God, but that special election, by which he set apart his disciples to the office of preaching the Gospel11 John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 119.



16. οὐχ ὑμεῖς. Not ye chose Me, but I chose you. Ὑμεῖς and ἐγώ are emphatic. Ἐκλέγειν refers to their election to be Apostles (6:70, 13:18; Acts 1:2); therefore the aorist as referring to a definite act in the past should be preserved. So also ἔθηκα, I appointed you, i. e. assigned you to a definite post, as in 2 Tim. 1:11; Heb. 1:2. This is better than ‘I ordained,’ as A. V. here and 1 Tim. 2:7, ‘ordain’ having become a technical term in ecclesiastical language. Comp. Acts 13:47, 20:28; 1 Cor. 12:28. The repetition of ὑμεῖς throughout the verse emphasizes the personal responsibility of the Apostles.11 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 286.



In John 15:16, Jesus is not talking about choosing people to salvation, nor is he speaking generally of believers. Rather, he is talking specifically of picking his apostles and preparing them for their ministry, all of which Jesus accomplished during his earthly ministry. There is nothing here about selecting people for salvation before creation.



Smelley, Hutson. Deconstructing Calvinism: A Biblical Analysis and Refutation (p. 184). Hutson Smelley. Kindle Edition.

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Your "The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance" is false as per Acts 2:38.

You have serious reading difficulties

Acts 2:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


shall receive is future tense - that means it is future to the main verb repent

end pt1