An Article on free will
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civic
Well-known member
So you converted to Calvinism , good to know
Johann
Well-known member
Sweet, sweet, heavenly worship with guitar chords.
The Lord is our salvation. The grace of God has reached for me---
J.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
The answer would be "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" no matter what you think is true about soteriology. Whether or not it is possible to become a believing one on your own or because God enables you to believe, the answer is still the same.
civic
Well-known member
No God does not give unbelievers faith
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I didn't say that.
Johann
Well-known member
Well said brother.
Common Grace and General Revelation:
The Bible also speaks about God's revelation to all people, which can lead to a form of general belief or acknowledgment of God, but not necessarily to saving faith.
Romans 1:19-20:
"Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."
Explanation: This passage suggests that all people have a general knowledge of God through His creation, leading to an acknowledgment of His existence, but not necessarily to a personal saving faith in Jesus Christ.
civic
Well-known member
And personal faith is just that , from the person not God.
Rockson
Well-known member
No it wouldn't be if Calvinistic thinking were true. The man asked a question and that question and answer was recorded for all in future times to read and know of. He asked, "What must I do to be saved?" The world's audience is waiting for the answer and they got it. "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!" To say just believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and not meaning it to be for all to read is leading people on. Do you know what the phrase leading people on even means? It means creating an expectation for a positive end result and not being willing to actually back it. Sorry but this is what you claim God does.
civic
Well-known member
Exactly
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
It is the same answer either way. What must I do to fly to Miami, FL? Get on a plan/jet. That doesn't mean that I am capable of getting a flight. The answer is the same whether or not I'm capable on my own steam to do it.
Rockson
Well-known member
Again Calvinists would have people believe that Paul was just telling the jailer an intellectual Timbit that is IF if were the will of God to save you you would believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. They want us to believe the first part of this wouldn't be in the verse with this jailer asking this heart fealt question? It would have to be. It wasn't so it was an open individual FOR ALL to do what the jailer did. BELIEVE.Exactly
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
If Paul had God's knowledge he might have said that to a non-elect person. Or he would have said, "You can't be saved". But the answer he gives is correct because believing is the way. It's the answer Calvinists should give, too.
civic
Well-known member
Fallacy alert there are no non elect people when it comes to the gospel it’s for everyone.
Johann
Well-known member
Personally, I think there will always be a "rock an' roll" as to what precedes what, just my opinion, for what it's worth.
Let's break down Acts 16:30-31 with word studies, syntax, and morphology to understand the context and meaning in depth.
Acts 16:30-31 (Greek Text):
Verse 30:
καὶ (kai): "and" or "then"
προαγαγών (proagagōn): participle form of the verb προάγω, meaning "having brought forward"
αὐτοὺς (autous): accusative plural of αὐτός, meaning "them"
ἔξω (exō): adverb meaning "outside"
ἔφη (ephē): verb, aorist active indicative, meaning "he said"
Κύριοι (Kyrioi): vocative plural of κύριος, meaning "lords" or "sirs"
τί (ti): interrogative pronoun, meaning "what"
δεῖ (dei): verb, present active indicative, meaning "it is necessary" or "must"
με (me): accusative singular of ἐγώ, meaning "me"
ποιεῖν (poiein): present active infinitive of ποιέω, meaning "to do"
ἵνα (hina): conjunction, meaning "in order that" or "so that"
σωθῶ (sōthō): verb, aorist passive subjunctive of σώζω, meaning "to be saved"
Verse 31:
Οἱ (Hoi): definite article, nominative plural masculine, "the"
εἶπαν (eipan): verb, aorist active indicative of λέγω, meaning "they said" or "they replied"
Πίστευσον (Pisteuson): aorist active imperative of πιστεύω, meaning "believe"
ἐπὶ (epi): preposition, meaning "in" or "on"
τὸν (ton): definite article, accusative singular masculine, "the"
Κύριον (Kyrion): accusative singular of κύριος, meaning "Lord"
Ἰησοῦν (Iēsoun): accusative singular of Ἰησοῦς, meaning "Jesus"
καὶ (kai): conjunction, meaning "and"
σωθήσῃ (sōthēsē): verb, future passive indicative of σώζω, meaning "you will be saved"
σὺ (sy): nominative singular of σύ, meaning "you"
καὶ (kai): conjunction, meaning "and"
ὁ (ho): definite article, nominative singular masculine, "the"
οἶκός (oikos): nominative singular masculine, meaning "house" or "household"
σου (sou): genitive singular of σύ, meaning "your"
Word Studies and Morphology:
προαγαγών (proagagōn):
Form: Aorist participle active, masculine singular nominative.
Meaning: Indicates an action that precedes the main verb ("having brought forward" or "leading out").
δεῖ (dei):
Form: Present indicative active, impersonal verb.
Meaning: Expresses necessity or obligation ("it is necessary" or "must").
σωθῶ (sōthō):
Form: Aorist passive subjunctive, first person singular.
Meaning: Refers to being saved or delivered, with an emphasis on the passive nature of the action (being saved by someone else, in this case, God).
Syntax and Context:
Verse 30:
Context: The jailer, having witnessed the miraculous events surrounding Paul and Silas, brings them out of the prison and urgently asks what he must do to be saved.
Syntax: The verse begins with the conjunction καὶ, indicating a sequence of actions. The participle προαγαγών connects the action of bringing Paul and Silas out with the main verb ἔφη (he said). The jailer's address, Κύριοι (sirs), shows respect and urgency. The question τί δεῖ με ποιεῖν ἵνα σωθῶ; directly translates to "What must I do to be saved?" indicating his immediate concern for his spiritual state.
Verse 31:
Context: Paul and Silas respond to the jailer's question, providing the essential requirement for salvation.
Syntax: The definite article οἱ and the aorist indicative verb εἶπαν (they said) introduce their reply. The imperative verb πίστευσον (believe) is a command, indicating the action the jailer must take.
The preposition ἐπὶ with the accusative τὸν Κύριον Ἰησοῦν specifies the object of belief: "the Lord Jesus."
The future passive indicative σωθήσῃ (you will be saved) promises the result of this belief. The inclusion of σὺ καὶ ὁ οἶκός σου (you and your household) extends the promise to the jailer's family.
Summary:
The passage in Acts 16:30-31 emphasizes the necessity of faith in Jesus for salvation. The jailer's urgent question is met with a clear and direct response: belief in Jesus Christ leads to salvation. The grammatical construction highlights the immediacy and importance of this faith, while the context shows a dramatic moment of conversion and the power of the gospel message.
--And the context--
Background (Acts 16:16-29):
Paul and Silas in Philippi:
Paul and Silas were in Philippi, a Roman colony, spreading the gospel.
They encountered a slave girl who had a spirit of divination. She earned a lot of money for her owners by fortune-telling (Acts 16:16).
Exorcism and Imprisonment:
Paul cast the spirit out of the girl in the name of Jesus Christ, which ended her ability to tell fortunes and, consequently, her owners' profits (Acts 16:18).
Her owners, angry at their loss of income, seized Paul and Silas and dragged them before the authorities. They accused them of causing an uproar and advocating customs unlawful for Romans (Acts 16:19-21).
Paul and Silas were beaten, flogged, and thrown into prison. The jailer was instructed to guard them carefully, so he put them in the inner cell and fastened their feet in stocks (Acts 16:22-24).
Miraculous Events in Prison:
Despite their circumstances, Paul and Silas prayed and sang hymns to God around midnight, and the other prisoners were listening to them (Acts 16:25).
Suddenly, a violent earthquake shook the prison, opening the doors and loosening the prisoners' chains (Acts 16:26).
The jailer woke up, saw the prison doors open, and assumed the prisoners had escaped. He was about to kill himself, but Paul shouted to stop him, assuring him that all the prisoners were still there (Acts 16:27-28).
Immediate Context (Acts 16:29-34):
The Jailer’s Question:
The jailer called for lights, rushed in, and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:29-30).
This question reflects his recognition of the divine power at work and his need for salvation.
Paul and Silas’s Response:
Paul and Silas replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household” (Acts 16:31).
They explained the way of salvation clearly and concisely, emphasizing faith in Jesus Christ.
Conversion and Baptism:
They spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. The jailer washed their wounds, and immediately he and all his household were baptized (Acts 16:32-33).
The jailer brought them into his house, set a meal before them, and was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household (Acts 16:34).
Analysis and Theological Implications:
Recognition of Need:
The jailer’s question, “What must I do to be saved?” indicates his awareness of his spiritual need and the urgency of his situation.
Simplicity of the Gospel:
The response from Paul and Silas, “Believe in the Lord Jesus,” underscores the simplicity of the gospel message. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone, not through works or rituals.
Household Salvation:
The promise that the jailer and his household would be saved points to the impact of the gospel on entire families. When the head of the household believes, it often leads to the whole family coming to faith.
Transformation and Immediate Obedience:
The jailer’s actions following his conversion (washing wounds, being baptized, showing hospitality) demonstrate the immediate transformation that occurs when one believes in Christ.
Joy of Salvation:
The jailer’s joy reflects the profound change and new life that come with salvation. His joy was shared with his entire household, illustrating the communal aspect of faith.
Broader Context in Acts:
Missionary Journeys:
Acts 16 is part of the account of Paul’s second missionary journey. This chapter highlights the spread of the gospel into Europe (Philippi was in Macedonia, a region of Greece).
Persecution and Miracles:
The chapter shows how persecution often accompanied the spread of the gospel, but also how God used miraculous events to open doors for evangelism and conversion.
Diverse Converts:
The chapter earlier describes the conversion of Lydia, a wealthy merchant (Acts 16:14-15), showing the gospel’s reach across different social strata—from a businesswoman to a Roman jailer.
By understanding this context, we see how Acts 16:30-31 fits into the narrative of the early church’s growth and the power of the gospel to transform lives across different backgrounds and circumstances.
Stay blessed in Messiah
Johann
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I don't think anyone has said that. I haven't said that.
And everyone is culpable. The default condition of all people is a slave to sin, for which we are all culpable.
What you're saying is, "Why does He still blame us, for who resists His will?" Paul had an answer to that.
civic
Well-known member
In Calvinism faith is given only to the elect . It’s the I and U in tulip
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
You keep saying that, but it's not how it works.
`Because of this I have said to you -- No one is able to come unto me, if it may not have been given him from my Father.'
What is given him? Ability. Not faith.
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Rockson
Well-known member
Believing is the way but you go around the fact that there wouldn't be a need to clarify EXACTLY to whom this is for. You false theology wants to make it seem like he can just tell someone the way and hold back from telling him at the same the essential fact to consider.....that believing may not be what God has for you. The fact that he left this open should tell one it's the thing that any member of humanity can do!
I'm not saying that's not the answer one should give I'm saying your way of thinking lacks insight not appreciating all can do just what Paul had stated, encouraged and exhorted.
