An Article on free will

[Kermos]

@TomL

No Word of God states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE MESSIAH'S HOLY NAME!!!

 

[TomL]

@TomL

No Word of God states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Joshua 24:14–24 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. 23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel. 24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.

That man can believe is seen here

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.



What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?

 

[TomL]

In John 6:27 and John 6:34-35, Jesus says He is our Christian's food (John 6:27), our Christian Bread of Life (John 6:35). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Christ of us Christians says "I am the Living Bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh" (John 6:51).

Here is your first problem

This bread, his flesh is given for the world not some unconditionally select few but the world

so you can toss your unbiblical doctrine of limited atonement

We Christians work (John 6:27) for the Bread of Life (John 6:35) according to the Power of God (John 3:21), so we proclaim the glorious King of the Kingdom of God in the Power of God to the world; therefore, this "proclaiming" is working for the food enduring to eternal life (John 6:27). Christ gives Himself, the Bread of Life, to us Christians for we Christians partake in the food of the Body and Blood of Christ, so our wonderful Leader sustains and strengthens us for the works prepared for us beforehand by God to the Glory of God! God has set His seal on us Christians, that is, our seal is our very believing in the Son whom the Father has sent by the Grace of God for the Glory of God!

And Jesus stated

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

upon which the Jews asked

John 6:28 (KJV 1900) — 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

but the answer is not nothing rather

John 6:29 (KJV 1900) — 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

they are told they must believe

Praise the Lord for He explains our Christian work (John 6:27) is to eat the Bread of Life (John 6:35, John 6:51). Christ says "work" "for the food"

So Jesus tells them there is something they must do

here is your second error

This is what you would call synergism and is contrary to your belief in monergism

(John 6:27) which means "work for Christ" as in fruit of the Spirit of the Living God (see bearing fruit in John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and Galatians 5:22-23), so Christ says not that believing in Christ is the work of man, so this means free-willian philosopher's "He told them there was a certain type of work they were to do and it was the work of faith so stop trying to twist the passage and say it wasn't so" (the word of Rockson regarding John 6:27, see post #1,847) is false according to the Word of God!

John 6:27

John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Nothing there speaks of the fruit of the Spirit

And unbelievers do not experience the fruit of the Spirit

The fruit of the spirit is for believers, those in Christ, who have been freed by him, those who are led by the Holy Spirit

Galatians 5:1–26 (KJV 1900) — 1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. 7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. 11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. 12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you. 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Not unbelievers

For more on John 6:29 see here

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[TomL]

“you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

 

[Kermos]

@TomL

Your unscriptural preaching that belief in Christ is a work of man has been repeatedly proven false by the Word of God in this thread.

The True Grammar of Ephesians 2:8-10​

The Apostle Paul wrote:

"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).
​

In Ephesians chapter 2, Paul introduces the development for the concept of "by grace you have been saved" in Ephesians 2:5, then Paul proceeded through the intervening verses to the fully developed big reveal of "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" in Ephesians 2:8.

Paul expanded on what he started to talk about in Ephesians 2:5; moreover, in Ephesians 2:8, Paul makes it Spiritually and grammatically clear that faith is inextricably included in the "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".

The Greek grammar of Ephesians 2:8 is multi-faceted, so let's look at these ten words, at constructs such as Greek language case/gender/number which establish communication, so here they are:

• grace - noun - dative/feminine/singular
• you is exclusively the subject in (Ephesians 2:8), and "you" is derived from the second person and plural count of the inflection of the verb "are".
• are - verb - is a present, indicative, active verb in the second person and plural count
• saved - verb - nominative/masculine/plural
• faith - noun - genitive/feminine/singular
• and - conjunction
• that - demonstrative pronoun - nominative/neuter/singular
• yourselves - personal pronoun - genitive in the second person with plural count.
• God - noun - genitive/masculine/singular
• gift - noun - nominative/neuter/singular

Since both "you" and "yourselves" are second person and plural count, then the word "yourselves" refers specifically to the complete sentence subject of "you"; therefore, the word "that" arbitrates the thing that is "not of yourselves" as well as "the gift of God".

A noun is the subject of a sentence, and a verb is an action by or on the subject of the sentence; moreover, a verb is not the subject of a sentence, and this is fundamental grammar.

A nuance of inflective languages is that a sentence's verb can concretely indicate the sentence's subject noun without including the specific word for the noun in the sentence. Both Greek and Spanish are examples of such inflective languages.

In Ephesians 2:8, the Greek verb ἐστε (Strong’s 1510 – εἰμί – eimi – am, are, is) translates to the English verb "are", and we know ἐστε equals “are” because of the inflection of ἐστε which is both second person, "you", and this "you" is plural; therefore, the Greek verb ἐστε (are) implicitly indicates the sentence’s subject noun “you” for this sentence:

For by grace you are saved through faith
(Ephesians 2:8)
​

The English word "you" is concretely the subject.

As is clearly evident in Ephesians 2:8, Paul utilized no full grammatical inflective agreement between the words, for example, he did not precisely tie objects back to the subject using case/number/gender agreement.

There is a principle in Greek grammar which dictates that in the absence of full inflective agreement, then the word order in the sentence becomes paramount, so the word order in Ephesians 2:8 dictates relationship between the words.

Essentially, this principle of Greek grammar word order antecedent placement results in the fact that the phrase "faith and that not of yourselves" is specifically stating that faith is not of man while at the same time specifically stating faith is truly the work of God because of "it is the gift of God".

As a minimum basis, the word order principle plays a role in the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8.

There is more to the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8, such as "God" and "faith" are the only genitive and singular two words in Ephesians 2:8, and both of these words have an antecedent that is neuter, and a neuter can be an antecedent to both masculine words and feminine words, so this grammatical structure binds the words "God" and "faith" together in Ephesians 2:8, and yet there is more to the grammatical structure such that the following is entirely Truth (John 14:6).

We have 3 clauses in Ephesians 2:8:

• by grace you are saved through faith
• and that not of yourselves
• it is the gift of God

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "not of yourselves".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "the gift of God".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is composed of the constituent parts of "grace" and "saved" and "faith".

When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of

• grace is not a work of man while being the work of God.
• savedbis not a work of man while being the work of God.
• faith is not a work of man while being the work of God.

in Paul's writing of

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
​

One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".

In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes it clear that the work of faith is not a work of man, yet the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 clearly state that faith is the work of God.

The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In absolute Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE FAITHFUL ONE, JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[TomL]

@TomL

Your unscriptural preaching that belief in Christ is a work of man has been repeatedly proven false by the Word of God in this thread.

You have been roundly refuted in such claims

The True Grammar of Ephesians 2:8-10

The Apostle Paul wrote:

​

"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).​

​

In Ephesians chapter 2, Paul introduces the development for the concept of "by grace you have been saved" in Ephesians 2:5, then Paul proceeded through the intervening verses to the fully developed big reveal of "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" in Ephesians 2:8.

Paul expanded on what he started to talk about in Ephesians 2:5; moreover, in Ephesians 2:8, Paul makes it Spiritually and grammatically clear that faith is inextricably included in the "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".

Sorry that is false

Greek grammar scholars rebut that

For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.


8.] For by grace (the article shews us the import of the sentence—to take up and expand the parenthetic clause χάριτί ἐστε σεσωσμένοι above: but not barely so: that clause itself was inserted on account of the matter in hand being a notable example of the fact, and this γάρ takes up also that matter in hand—the ὑπερβάλλον πλοῦτος κ.τ.λ) ye are (perf.) saved, through [your] (or [the], but the possessive article is preferable, see below: ‘the’ would make both objective. The abstract, ‘through faith,’ must be the rendering if the article be omitted) faith (the dative above expressed the objective instrumental condition of your salvation,—this διὰ the subjective medial condition: it has been effected by grace and apprehended by faith): and this (not your faith, as Chrys. οὐδὲ ἡ πίστις, φησίν, ἐξ ὑμῶν: so Thdrt., al., Corn.-a-Iap., Beza, Est., Grot., Beng., all.;—this is precluded (not by the gender of τοῦτο, but) by the manifestly parallel clauses οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν and οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, of which the latter would be irrelevant as asserted of πίστις, and the reference of ver. 9 must therefore be changed:—but, as Calv., Calov., Rück., Harl., Olsh., Mey., De W., Stier, al., ‘your salvation;’ τὸ σεσωσμένοι εἶναι, as Ellic.) not of yourselves, God’s (emphatic) is the gift (not, as E. V. ‘it is the gift of God’ (θεοῦ δῶρον),—τὸ δῶρον, viz. of your salvation: so that the expression is pregnant—q. d., ‘but it is a gift, and that gift is God’s.’ There is no occasion, as Lachm., Harl., and De W., to parenthesize these words: they form a contrast to οὐκ ἐξ ὑμ., and a quasi-parallel clause to ἵνα μή τις καυχήσ. below): not of works (for ἐξ ἔργων, see on Rom. 3:4, and Gal. 2:16), that no man should boast (on the proposition implied, see on Rom. 4:2. ἵνα, has in matter of fact its strictest telic sense. With God, results are all purposed; it need not be understood, when we predicate of Him a purpose in this manner, that it was His main or leading aim;—but it was one of those things included in His scheme, which ranked among His purposes).1

1 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 3; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 94.

But whether are we to understand, faith or salvation as being the gift of God? This question is answered by the Greek text: τῃ γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως· και τουτο ουκ εξ ὑμων· Θεου το δωρον, ουκ εξ εργων· ἰνα μη τις καυχησηται· “By this grace ye are saved through faith; and this (τουτο, this salvation) not of you; it is the gift of God, not of works: so that no one can boast.” “The relative τουτο, this, which is in the neuter gender, cannot stand for πιστις, faith, which is the feminine; but it has the whole sentence that goes before for its antecedent.” But it may be asked: Is not faith the gift of God? Yes, as to the grace by which it is produced; but the grace or power to believe, and the act of believing, are two different things. Without the grace or power to believe no man ever did or can believe; but with that power the act of faith is a man’s own. God never believes for any man, no more than he repents for him; the penitent, through this grace enabling him, believes for himself: nor does he believe necessarily, or impulsively when he has that power; the power to believe may be present long before it is exercised, else, why the solemn warnings with which we meet every where in the word of God, and threatenings against those who do not believe? Is not this a proof that such persons have the power but do not use it? They believe not, and therefore are not established. This, therefore, is the true state of the case: God gives the power, man uses the power thus given, and brings glory to God: without the power no man can believe; with it, any man may.1

1 Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 6, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 439.

τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσωσμένοι διὰ πίστεως. Emphasizing the means, as, before, the reality of the salvation. The root of our salvation lies in the declaration of God’s favour to us (cf. on 1:6) and in the power of the consciousness of that favour over us. διὰ πίστεως, cf. 1:13, 15, 19; faith on man’s side is the mouth or hand by which the salvation is appropriated, cf. Rom. 3:24.11 J. O. F. Murray, ed., The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Ephesians (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1914), 40.;



................



οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων. Here the thought reverts to the main idea, the gift of salvation11 J. O. F. Murray, ed., The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Ephesians (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1914), 40.

The Greek grammar of Ephesians 2:8 is multi-faceted, so let's look at these ten words, at constructs such as Greek language case/gender/number which establish communication, so here they are:

• grace - noun - dative/feminine/singular
• you is exclusively the subject in (Ephesians 2:8), and "you" is derived from the second person and plural count of the inflection of the verb "are".
• are - verb - is a present, indicative, active verb in the second person and plural count
• saved - verb - nominative/masculine/plural
• faith - noun - genitive/feminine/singular
• and - conjunction
• that - demonstrative pronoun - nominative/neuter/singular
• yourselves - personal pronoun - genitive in the second person with plural count.
• God - noun - genitive/masculine/singular
• gift - noun - nominative/neuter/singular

Since both "you" and "yourselves" are second person and plural count, then the word "yourselves" refers specifically to the complete sentence subject of "you"; therefore, the word "that" arbitrates the thing that is "not of yourselves" as well as "the gift of God".

as well as

Not of works in v9

A noun is the subject of a sentence, and a verb is an action by or on the subject of the sentence; moreover, a verb is not the subject of a sentence, and this is fundamental grammar.

A nuance of inflective languages is that a sentence's verb can concretely indicate the sentence's subject noun without including the specific word for the noun in the sentence. Both Greek and Spanish are examples of such inflective languages.

In Ephesians 2:8, the Greek verb ἐστε (Strong’s 1510 – εἰμί – eimi – am, are, is) translates to the English verb "are", and we know ἐστε equals “are” because of the inflection of ἐστε which is both second person, "you", and this "you" is plural; therefore, the Greek verb ἐστε (are) implicitly indicates the sentence’s subject noun “you” for this sentence:

​

For by grace you are saved through faith​

(Ephesians 2:8)​

​

The English word "you" is concretely the subject.

As is clearly evident in Ephesians 2:8, Paul utilized no full grammatical inflective agreement between the words, for example, he did not precisely tie objects back to the subject using case/number/gender agreement.

There is a principle in Greek grammar which dictates that in the absence of full inflective agreement, then the word order in the sentence becomes paramount, so the word order in Ephesians 2:8 dictates relationship between the words.

Quote a source for that claim

I have quoted multiple greek grammar sources and not one appeal to word ordert

Essentially, this principle of Greek grammar word order antecedent placement results in the fact that the phrase "faith and that not of yourselves" is specifically stating that faith is not of man while at the same time specifically stating faith is truly the work of God because of "it is the gift of God".

Except you provide no source for this claim

and not even these Calvinist accept your claim

But they commonly misintepret this text, and restrict the word ‘gift’ to faith alone. But Paul is only repeating his earlier statement in other words. He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God … " (from, Calvin’s Commentaries 4:145

And that not of yourselves. That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered that—τοῦτο—is in the neuter gender, and the word faith—πίστις—is in the feminine. The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to the salvation by grace of which he had been speaking. This is the interpretation of the passage which is the most obvious, and which is now generally conceded to be the true one; see Bloomfield1

1 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Ephesians, Philippians & Colossians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 42.

As a minimum basis, the word order principle plays a role in the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8.

There is more to the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8, such as "God" and "faith" are the only genitive and singular two words in Ephesians 2:8, and both of these words have an antecedent that is neuter, and a neuter can be an antecedent to both masculine words and feminine words, so this grammatical structure binds the words "God" and "faith" together in Ephesians 2:8, and yet there is more to the grammatical structure such that the following is entirely Truth (John 14:6).

Again lack the support of a greek grammar expert

Ephesians 2:8, 9 is therefore the key passage: “For by grace [instrumental case, te chariti, by the instrumentality of grace] you have been saved [periphrastic perfect, looking at the present condition that flows from the prior act] through faith [dia plus the genitive, intermediate agency]; and this [neuter touto] not of you, the gift of God; not of works, in order that one may not boast. There are two reasons, one grammatical and one syntactical, for insisting that “this” does not refer back to “faith.” Grammatically, “faith” is feminine and “this” is neuter. Only an unnatural stretching of the possibilities of Greek grammar can read “faith” as the antecedent of “this.” Syntactically, the fact (often overlooked) is that there are three complements of “this” which follow it: (1) “this” (is) not of you, (2) “this” (is) God’s gift, (3) “this” (is) not of works, lest anyone boast. To read “faith” with “this” might make some kind of sense for the first two of these, but it will not work with the third: “this faith is not of works” would be nonsensical tautology in view of the fact that works is in contrast to faith already. In Ephesians 2:8, 9, therefore, “this” has for its antecedent the entire preceding clause. This fits the “rules” of Greek grammar that called for a neuter pronoun to refer to a verbal idea, and it makes perfectly good sense in the context. “By grace you have been saved by faith: and this saving experience is not of you but is the gift of God, not of works lest any boast.”







Picirilli, Robert. Grace Faith Free Will: Contrasting Views of Salvation: Calvinism & Arminianism (p. 165). Ingram Distribution. Kindle Edition.

who goes on to say

Regardless how we express it, since faith is an attitude (or, disposition) or activity of the human person’s mind and will, then to say that faith is the gift of God must mean that He, by supernatural intervention, directly (and without cooperation since up to the point of faith the person is a hostile unbeliever) produces the person’s faith. He “turns” the person into a believer. (Or else, in the mind-set of Calvinism, the person will receive some kind of “credit” for doing the believing.) Frankly, this viewpoint utterly fails to take account of the pervasive Scriptural presentation that “blames” each unbeliever who hears for his unbelief and presents the believer as the one likewise responsible for the believing.

We have 3 clauses in Ephesians 2:8:

• by grace you are saved through faith
• and that not of yourselves
• it is the gift of God

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "not of yourselves".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "the gift of God".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is composed of the constituent parts of "grace" and "saved" and "faith".

When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of

• grace is not a work of man while being the work of God.
• savedbis not a work of man while being the work of God.
• faith is not a work of man while being the work of God.

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

The Philippian Jailer does not believe you nor do the jailed apostles

Acts 2:37–38 (NASB 2020) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what are we to do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Jews and Christ do not believe you

neither did these

John 6:27–35 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty.

in Paul's writing of

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".

In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes it clear that the work of faith is not a work of man, yet the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 clearly state that faith is the work of God.

The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In absolute Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE FAITHFUL ONE, JESUS CHRIST!!!

Sorry but your views are anti scriptural

John 12:40 (ESV) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

If faith is a gift which must be given by God how is it God had to blind someone so that they would not believe?


Acts 28:27 (ESV) — 27 For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’

Why does Luke say these could have believed had they not closed their eyes ?


Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

if faith is an irresistible gift how could he take it away and if the gift is not given what is there for him to take away

Sorry but your claimsc are simply unbiblical and lack rational correspondanxce to the biblical data

 

[Kermos]

@TomL

Your misunderstanding about the word "world" New Testament context is manifest in your writings throughout this thread, so here is the Truth (John 14:6).

Context in the New Testament Establishes the Meaning of the Greek Word κόσμος/Kosmos (World)​

The word "world" possesses a variety of definitions in scripture, and the context of the word "world" generally sets the definition.

The Greek word κόσμος (kosmos, Strong's 2889 - world) translates to "world".

The Word "World" in Ephesians 1:1-14​

Paul mentions "before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4) in the passage.

The "world" as used by Paul here indicates all the earth and all that is in it.

Paul refers to the time before the earth ("world") was created.

The word "world" in Ephesians 1:4 is the earth and all that is in the earth.

The Word "World" in John 3:16 (John 3:14-16)​

The first order is to look at Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).

The second order is to examine the history of "the serpent in the wilderness" that Jesus mentions (see John 3:14):

Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.
(Numbers 21:8-9)
​

The third order is to listen to the Master.

Jesus sets "the serpent in the wilderness" "lifted up" in relation to "the Son of Man" "lifted up" (all in John 3:14).

Jesus then states "so that every believing will in" Jesus "have eternal life" (John 3:15), but He intensifies this statement by repeating it right away.

Jesus continues with "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16), and here is where Jesus mentions "world".

Jesus follows up with intensifying his prior declaration (John 3:15) with "that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

The fourth order is to acknowledge the Master's words.

Jesus mentioned "the serpent in the wilderness", so by this He brings up the account of the bronze serpent (John 3:16 includes Numbers 21:8-9).

The relation that Jesus set between the bronze serpent lifted up and Himself lifted up bears significance upon the population of persons that Jesus establishes for the word "world" in John 3:16.

For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).

Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).

Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word pas [Strongs 3956] translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).

Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).

Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).

God told Moses that a person bitten by one of the serpents "will live" when the person looks at "the serpent in the wilderness".

Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8) and the results of the bronze serpent that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".

In other words, the population of persons associated with living by looking at "the serpent in the wilderness" was restricted to ONLY the bitten persons that looked at the bronze serpent. For simplicity, I'll call this the "population of bitten look livers".

Furthermore, there is a different population of persons. This population of persons are not in the "population of bitten look livers". For example, this population of persons could include bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" after the "the serpent in the wilderness" was set on a pole/standard (Numbers 21:9). As another example, this population of persons certainly includes bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" due to the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who were dead before God Almighty commanded Moses to make the "the serpent in the wilderness" "and set it on a standard" (Numbers 21:8). This population of persons I'll call the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16). There was the "population of bitten look livers"; meanwhile, there was the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Jesus utilized a comparator in which a group of many persons in the "population of bitten-non-lookers" were incapable of looking at the "the serpent in the wilderness" because that subset of people were dead prior to Moses fashioning the bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9), so Jesus sets the same standard for a subset of persons in the "world" (John 3:16) because that group of people are incapable of seeing King Jesus (John 3:3-8).

God requires for persons to believe in Jesus in order to be granted eternal life by God (John 3:15, John 3:16).

So, it follows, when Lord Jesus says "God so loved the world" (John 3:16), then specifically He is saying God loves the ones who will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

This relation set by Jesus establishes that the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:14-16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

Before and after saying "world", Jesus establishes the requirement of believing in Jesus in order for persons to be in the population of persons granted eternal life by God.

Jesus, the Word of God, says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Jesus defines righteous faith/belief such that a person believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

Jesus attributes a complete package, a whole gift, a finished work which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent".

God deposits "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" in a person as a complete, sufficiently functioning work by God unto salvation of the person with nothing additional by the person as necessary, no choice by the person, no work of a decision by the person, no acceptance by the person, nothing by the person to achieve salvation.

So, "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" is a complete thing with nothing more to add by the person to the righteous faith/belief deposited by God unto being saved from the wrath of God.

Jesus clearly explains that the "believe in Him whom He has sent" is locked inside of the "you" specified by Jesus (John 6:29).

This "locking" is "the work of God" for God secures all of God's own persons unto eternal life (John 10:27-29).

The whole pagkage is done, finished, and complete.

There is nothing more "to be done" by the "you" with the finished package in order to obtain the gift of eternal life in God.

Thus, the only persons with righteous faith/belief implanted by God for a person's salvation are in the population of persons with eternal life in God (John 6:29, John 3:16).

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

When self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) define the "world" in John 3:16 as everyone everywhere without exception, then such persons assert that the Truth (Jesus - John 14:6) tells a lie. The deception results because such persons have Jesus losing persons eternally in spite of Him saying "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).

The "no one" in "no one will snatch them out of My hand" means no one, not the devil, not the person himself or herself, not another person. The "no one" means absolutely NO ONE.

If the word "world" in John 3:16 includes the population of persons who die while in disbelief/unfaith, then God lost some persons to eternal punishment instead of eternal life.

Since believing in the Son of God whom God the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29) and no one will snatch a God rooted believer out of Jesus' hand (John 10:28), then the population of persons represented by the word "world" by Jesus as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:16) must of necessity be only persons who currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus unto eternal life in God.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of believers, God's chosen persons, existing or yet to be ONLY.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

The Word "World" in The Book of the First Letter of John (1 John 2:2, 1 John 5:19)​

The Apostle John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world" (1 John 2:2).

The Apostle John also wrote "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

Notice "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author.

Since free-will supporting persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) say "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 means every person everywhere can choose salvation, then such persons interpretation of "the whole world" has such free-will supporting persons themselves as part of "the whole world" lying in the evil one per 1 John 5:19.

The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.

Because John wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), then this means Christians are beyond the evil one; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.

This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include the children of God for we are Christians.

This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include every person everywhere because Christians are not included.

This means that free-will supporting persons have not overcome the evil one since such free-will supporting persons include themselves in "the whole world" thus including themselves as lying in the evil one.

The "lies" or "lying" in the evil one is similar to "abides" or "abiding" in the evil one, so there is a tight relationship between such free-will supporting persons and the evil one.

The English word "lies" in 1 John 2:2 derives from the Greek word "κεῖται" (Strong's 2749 - keimai - to be laid, lie) which specifically means "lay".

This means that free-will supporting persons are not Christians, and it is the free-will supporting persons definition of "world" that effectually makes such free-will supporting persons Non-Christians, that is, unbelievers.

This also means the word "world" does not have to mean every person everywhere when the word "world" is used in the Bible.

These two different meanings for the word "world", "the whole world", occur in one book of the New Testament.

It is time to return to 1 John 2:2.

• John was writing to God's own people in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John), so the context is believers, John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 2:2) - that "our" and the upcoming "ours" are believers, so continuing on with that which John wrote "and not for ours only, but also for the whole world".
• A believer reading 1 John 2:2 knows that God converted the believer from "the whole world" into the "our" of God's assembly of believers (Matthew 18:3), yet an unbeliever who reads 1 John 2:2 considers Jesus' sacrifice foolishness (1 Corinthians 2:14); therefore, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 is such that "the whole world" refers to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who God is yet to work faith/belief in the Son of God whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
• The phrase "{b]the whole world[/b]" in 1 John 2:2 refers only to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who are yet to be imparted the work of God which is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29); otherwise, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 results in everyone everywhere being saved from the wrath of God, a.k.a. universalism, yet universalism is deception because the Word of God says "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 7:21) thus Jesus indicates that some people do not enter heaven which means those people go to hell (Matthew 25:41).
• The phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 refers only persons yet to become part of Israel, the true Israel (Romans 9:6) and persons grafted into Israel (Romans 11:11-36), for the Word of God says "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24).

In 1 John 2:2, the word "world" does not include persons that currently have been imparted the work of God, faith/belief, in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29) because John led with "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only", so John uses "our" for exclusively current believers and John uses "world" for exclusively future believers.
The word "world" in 1 John 2:2 is the population of persons who are yet to be imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

The word "world" in 1 John 5:19 is the population of persons who have NOT been imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29), and this population of persons includes persons that will not be imparted faith/belief before such persons die.

Behold, the two different populations of persons represented by "world" in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John).

Conclusion About The Word "World" in The New Testament Books​

The word "world" has four different meanings in the above passages.

The word "world" does not of necessity need to be defined as "all the people that are in it".

The word "world" in the New Testament Books is generally defined by the context around the word.

The absolute Truth (John 14:6) is that the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

 

[TomL]

@TomL

Your misunderstanding about the word "world" New Testament context is manifest in your writings throughout this thread, so here is the Truth (John 14:6).

Context in the New Testament Establishes the Meaning of the Greek Word κόσμος/Kosmos (World)​

The word "world" possesses a variety of definitions in scripture, and the context of the word "world" generally sets the definition.

The Greek word κόσμος (kosmos, Strong's 2889 - world) translates to "world".

The Word "World" in Ephesians 1:1-14​

Paul mentions "before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4) in the passage.

The "world" as used by Paul here indicates all the earth and all that is in it.

Paul refers to the time before the earth ("world") was created.

The word "world" in Ephesians 1:4 is the earth and all that is in the earth.

The Word "World" in John 3:16 (John 3:14-16)​

The first order is to look at Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).

The second order is to examine the history of "the serpent in the wilderness" that Jesus mentions (see John 3:14):

​

Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.​

(Numbers 21:8-9)​

​

The third order is to listen to the Master.

Jesus sets "the serpent in the wilderness" "lifted up" in relation to "the Son of Man" "lifted up" (all in John 3:14).

Jesus then states "so that every believing will in" Jesus "have eternal life" (John 3:15), but He intensifies this statement by repeating it right away.

Jesus continues with "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16), and here is where Jesus mentions "world".

Jesus follows up with intensifying his prior declaration (John 3:15) with "that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

The fourth order is to acknowledge the Master's words.

Jesus mentioned "the serpent in the wilderness", so by this He brings up the account of the bronze serpent (John 3:16 includes Numbers 21:8-9).

The relation that Jesus set between the bronze serpent lifted up and Himself lifted up bears significance upon the population of persons that Jesus establishes for the word "world" in John 3:16.

For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).

Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).

Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word pas [Strongs 3956] translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).

Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).

Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).

God told Moses that a person bitten by one of the serpents "will live" when the person looks at "the serpent in the wilderness".

Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8) and the results of the bronze serpent that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".

In other words, the population of persons associated with living by looking at "the serpent in the wilderness" was restricted to ONLY the bitten persons that looked at the bronze serpent. For simplicity, I'll call this the "population of bitten look livers".

Furthermore, there is a different population of persons. This population of persons are not in the "population of bitten look livers". For example, this population of persons could include bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" after the "the serpent in the wilderness" was set on a pole/standard (Numbers 21:9). As another example, this population of persons certainly includes bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" due to the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who were dead before God Almighty commanded Moses to make the "the serpent in the wilderness" "and set it on a standard" (Numbers 21:8). This population of persons I'll call the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16). There was the "population of bitten look livers"; meanwhile, there was the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Jesus utilized a comparator in which a group of many persons in the "population of bitten-non-lookers" were incapable of looking at the "the serpent in the wilderness" because that subset of people were dead prior to Moses fashioning the bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9), so Jesus sets the same standard for a subset of persons in the "world" (John 3:16) because that group of people are incapable of seeing King Jesus (John 3:3-8).

God requires for persons to believe in Jesus in order to be granted eternal life by God (John 3:15, John 3:16).

So, it follows, when Lord Jesus says "God so loved the world" (John 3:16), then specifically He is saying God loves the ones who will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

This relation set by Jesus establishes that the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:14-16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

Before and after saying "world", Jesus establishes the requirement of believing in Jesus in order for persons to be in the population of persons granted eternal life by God.

Jesus, the Word of God, says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Jesus defines righteous faith/belief such that a person believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

Jesus attributes a complete package, a whole gift, a finished work which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent".

God deposits "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" in a person as a complete, sufficiently functioning work by God unto salvation of the person with nothing additional by the person as necessary, no choice by the person, no work of a decision by the person, no acceptance by the person, nothing by the person to achieve salvation.

So, "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" is a complete thing with nothing more to add by the person to the righteous faith/belief deposited by God unto being saved from the wrath of God.

Jesus clearly explains that the "believe in Him whom He has sent" is locked inside of the "you" specified by Jesus (John 6:29).

This "locking" is "the work of God" for God secures all of God's own persons unto eternal life (John 10:27-29).

The whole pagkage is done, finished, and complete.

There is nothing more "to be done" by the "you" with the finished package in order to obtain the gift of eternal life in God.

Thus, the only persons with righteous faith/belief implanted by God for a person's salvation are in the population of persons with eternal life in God (John 6:29, John 3:16).

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

When self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) define the "world" in John 3:16 as everyone everywhere without exception, then such persons assert that the Truth (Jesus - John 14:6) tells a lie. The deception results because such persons have Jesus losing persons eternally in spite of Him saying "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).

The "no one" in "no one will snatch them out of My hand" means no one, not the devil, not the person himself or herself, not another person. The "no one" means absolutely NO ONE.

If the word "world" in John 3:16 includes the population of persons who die while in disbelief/unfaith, then God lost some persons to eternal punishment instead of eternal life.

Since believing in the Son of God whom God the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29) and no one will snatch a God rooted believer out of Jesus' hand (John 10:28), then the population of persons represented by the word "world" by Jesus as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:16) must of necessity be only persons who currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus unto eternal life in God.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of believers, God's chosen persons, existing or yet to be ONLY.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

The Word "World" in The Book of the First Letter of John (1 John 2:2, 1 John 5:19)​

The Apostle John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world" (1 John 2:2).

The Apostle John also wrote "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

Notice "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author.

Since free-will supporting persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) say "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 means every person everywhere can choose salvation, then such persons interpretation of "the whole world" has such free-will supporting persons themselves as part of "the whole world" lying in the evil one per 1 John 5:19.

The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.

Because John wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), then this means Christians are beyond the evil one; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.

This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include the children of God for we are Christians.

This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include every person everywhere because Christians are not included.

This means that free-will supporting persons have not overcome the evil one since such free-will supporting persons include themselves in "the whole world" thus including themselves as lying in the evil one.

The "lies" or "lying" in the evil one is similar to "abides" or "abiding" in the evil one, so there is a tight relationship between such free-will supporting persons and the evil one.

The English word "lies" in 1 John 2:2 derives from the Greek word "κεῖται" (Strong's 2749 - keimai - to be laid, lie) which specifically means "lay".

This means that free-will supporting persons are not Christians, and it is the free-will supporting persons definition of "world" that effectually makes such free-will supporting persons Non-Christians, that is, unbelievers.

This also means the word "world" does not have to mean every person everywhere when the word "world" is used in the Bible.

These two different meanings for the word "world", "the whole world", occur in one book of the New Testament.

It is time to return to 1 John 2:2.

• John was writing to God's own people in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John), so the context is believers, John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 2:2) - that "our" and the upcoming "ours" are believers, so continuing on with that which John wrote "and not for ours only, but also for the whole world".
• A believer reading 1 John 2:2 knows that God converted the believer from "the whole world" into the "our" of God's assembly of believers (Matthew 18:3), yet an unbeliever who reads 1 John 2:2 considers Jesus' sacrifice foolishness (1 Corinthians 2:14); therefore, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 is such that "the whole world" refers to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who God is yet to work faith/belief in the Son of God whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
• The phrase "{b]the whole world[/b]" in 1 John 2:2 refers only to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who are yet to be imparted the work of God which is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29); otherwise, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 results in everyone everywhere being saved from the wrath of God, a.k.a. universalism, yet universalism is deception because the Word of God says "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 7:21) thus Jesus indicates that some people do not enter heaven which means those people go to hell (Matthew 25:41).
• The phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 refers only persons yet to become part of Israel, the true Israel (Romans 9:6) and persons grafted into Israel (Romans 11:11-36), for the Word of God says "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24).

In 1 John 2:2, the word "world" does not include persons that currently have been imparted the work of God, faith/belief, in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29) because John led with "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only", so John uses "our" for exclusively current believers and John uses "world" for exclusively future believers.
The word "world" in 1 John 2:2 is the population of persons who are yet to be imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

The word "world" in 1 John 5:19 is the population of persons who have NOT been imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29), and this population of persons includes persons that will not be imparted faith/belief before such persons die.

Behold, the two different populations of persons represented by "world" in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John).

Conclusion About The Word "World" in The New Testament Books​

The word "world" has four different meanings in the above passages.

The word "world" does not of necessity need to be defined as "all the people that are in it".

The word "world" in the New Testament Books is generally defined by the context around the word.

The absolute Truth (John 14:6) is that the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

Lets look at the term in a critical text

John 12:47 (ESV) — 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.


Christ does not judge any unbelievers because he came to save the world

From this verse we see any unbeliever is part of the world Christ came to save

So your doctrine of limited atonement is shown to be false

Lets look at a verse parallel, to John 12:47 with a bit of context

John 3:16–17 (ESV) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

God came to save the world having loved the world and given his son for it

Thus we see Christ died for all

 

[Kermos]

Why did you ignore these

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berean-apologetics.community.forum

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berean-apologetics.community.forum

Your posts are not ignored; rather, they are safely tucked away in a journal.

You are impatient! The next queued post for response of yours in sequence - you do love sequence - is your post #2,291. Whether I keep sequence or not, that is up to God.

Take heed, post #2,465 addressed your posted links thrre before you made your posts, but you blindly ignored this Truth (John 14:6).

So according to you unrepentant men are born again

Do you have a verse which actually affirms that

The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance

Acts 2:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.










You are repeating yourself

regeneration imparts life

repentance precedes that

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.






Here we see your first problem

Repentance precedes salvation

Regeneration effects salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

thus repentance precedes regeneration








And?

Thus Paul “rejoices now,” that is, in contrast with his sense of “regret” experienced during the period between sending the letter and hearing the Corinthians’ positive response to it. But in keeping with the delicate nature of their past relationships, he quickly qualifies that rejoicing. It was not because the Corinthians were “grieved” by his letter, but because their “grief” issued in “repentance.” Thus theirs was “grief” as “God intended,” or “a godlike grief,” in contrast with another form of “grief,” worldly grief, which he will mention in the next verse. Although they had been “grieved” by his pastoral discipline, they were not “harmed in any way”13 by Paul. On the contrary, as he will explain, the “repentance” arising out of their “grief” is the kind that leads to “salvation.”

Paul Barnett, The Second Epistle to the Corinthians (The New International Commentary on the New Testament; Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1997), 374–375.




Again and?

Accordingly, the sorrow of the world is, when men despond in consequence of earthly afflictions, and are overwhelmed with grief; while sorrow according to God is that which has an eye to God, while they reckon it the one misery—to have lost the favour of God; when, impressed with fear of His judgment, they mourn over their sins

John Calvin and John Pringle, Commentaries on the Epistles of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 274.



Um that verse is not speaking of the source of repentance

Rather as to what it is in relation to

Sorrow because of interrupted fellowship with God or because of worldly inconveniences



Again you misinterpret the verse

It speaks of the direction our sorrow is focused







leads yes

Irresistibly causes - no

Revelation 2:20–21 (KJV 1900) — 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.





In context it speaks of god giving to the gentiles the same opportunity to repent as the Jews

Obviously all gentiles did not repent here


See that repentance precedes life - i.e. regeneration

You diverted from that topic

You really need to read the below Scriptures.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HOLY JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[Johann]

Your posts are not ignored; rather, they are safely tucked away in a journal.

You are impatient! The next queued post for response of yours in sequence - you do love sequence - is your post #2,291. Whether I keep sequence or not, that is up to God.

Take heed, post #2,465 addressed your posted links thrre before you made your posts, but you blindly ignored this Truth (John 14:6).



You really need to read the below Scriptures.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

​

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).​

​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HOLY JESUS CHRIST!!!

@Kermos

Well presented-in fact, this is excellent.
Johann

 

[TomL]

Your posts are not ignored; rather, they are safely tucked away in a journal.

That does not address them

You are impatient! The next queued post for response of yours in sequence - you do love sequence - is your post #2,291. Whether I keep sequence or not, that is up to God.

Take heed, post #2,465 addressed your posted links thrre before you made your posts, but you blindly ignored this Truth (John 14:6).

You have no truth which needs to be ignored. You have ignord post after post argument after argument tucking them away in your journal

You really need to read the below Scriptures.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

A completer repeat of a previous post with my responses left off

So according to you unrepentant men are born again

Do you have a verse which actually affirms that

The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance

Acts 2:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

and you do not addres it

Repent: think differently afterwards

​

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).​

You are repeating yourself

regeneration imparts life

repentance precedes that

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

This is another repeat

You have been repeating yourself over and over without addressing rebuttal

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Here we see your first problem

Repentance precedes salvation

Regeneration effects salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

thus repentance precedes regeneration

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

Again and?

Accordingly, the sorrow of the world is, when men despond in consequence of earthly afflictions, and are overwhelmed with grief; while sorrow according to God is that which has an eye to God, while they reckon it the one misery—to have lost the favour of God; when, impressed with fear of His judgment, they mourn over their sins

John Calvin and John Pringle, Commentaries on the Epistles of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 274.

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

Um that verse is not speaking of the source of repentance

Rather as to what it is in relation to

Sorrow because of interrupted fellowship with God or because of worldly inconveniences

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

Again you misinterpret the verse

It speaks of the direction our sorrow is focused

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

leads yes

Irresistibly causes - no

Revelation 2:20–21 (KJV 1900) — 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

In context it speaks of god giving to the gentiles the same opportunity to repent as the Jews

Obviously all gentiles did not repent here

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

See that repentance precedes life - i.e. regeneration

You diverted from that topic

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

grant does not mean to effectually cause

We know Jezabel was given space for repentance but repented not
Nowhere do we read god effectually causes men to repent ot infuse an attitude of repentance into them
and it remains a task which is man's not God's responsibility
Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

wait for God to cause repentance are words which never appear in scripture

 

[Kermos]

@ TomL

In this blessed dialog, the Author and Perfecter of the faith declares the ordained order of salvation which is born of God followed by believing in Jesus Christ:

1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal Life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal Life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
(John 3:3-21)
​

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[civic]

That does not address them


You have no truth which needs to be ignored. You have ignord post after post argument after argument tucking them away in your journal



A completer repeat of a previous post with my responses left off

So according to you unrepentant men are born again

Do you have a verse which actually affirms that

The Bible puts the gift of the Holy Spirit - The spirit himself after repentance

Acts 2:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

and you do not addres it




You are repeating yourself

regeneration imparts life

repentance precedes that

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


This is another repeat

You have been repeating yourself over and over without addressing rebuttal

Here we see your first problem

Repentance precedes salvation

Regeneration effects salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

thus repentance precedes regeneration




Again and?

Accordingly, the sorrow of the world is, when men despond in consequence of earthly afflictions, and are overwhelmed with grief; while sorrow according to God is that which has an eye to God, while they reckon it the one misery—to have lost the favour of God; when, impressed with fear of His judgment, they mourn over their sins

John Calvin and John Pringle, Commentaries on the Epistles of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 274.




Um that verse is not speaking of the source of repentance

Rather as to what it is in relation to

Sorrow because of interrupted fellowship with God or because of worldly inconveniences




Again you misinterpret the verse

It speaks of the direction our sorrow is focused


leads yes

Irresistibly causes - no

Revelation 2:20–21 (KJV 1900) — 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.



In context it speaks of god giving to the gentiles the same opportunity to repent as the Jews

Obviously all gentiles did not repent here



See that repentance precedes life - i.e. regeneration

You diverted from that topic


grant does not mean to effectually cause

We know Jezabel was given space for repentance but repented not
Nowhere do we read god effectually causes men to repent ot infuse an attitude of repentance into them
and it remains a task which is man's not God's responsibility
Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

wait for God to cause repentance are words which never appear in scripture

And another thing being ignore by the opposition just the same as God granting faith to those who are already seeking God the same is true with repentance to those already seeking God.

God does not grant repentance or faith to unbelievers. They ignore this basic/fundamental truth that is clearly taught in those passages.

 

[TomL]

@ TomL

In this blessed dialog, the Author and Perfecter of the faith declares the ordained order of salvation which is born of God followed by believing in Jesus Christ:

​

1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”​

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal Life.​

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal Life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

(John 3:3-21)​

​

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE JESUS CHRIST!!!

um you completely overlooked Jesus answer to Nicodemus on how one could be born again

John 3:14–17 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[Kermos]

Biblical Order of Salvation below:

1- the preaching of the gospel- Rom 10
2- the hearing of the gospel- Rom 10
3- belief in the gospel- John 1:12
4- receiving the gospel- John 1:12
5- repentance Luke 5:32
6- the new birth that results in #7
7- salvation, eternal life- John 1:13
8- Justification- Rom 8:30
9- Sanctification- Rom 8
10- Glorification Rom 8:30

hope this helps !!!

Ler us test your spirit (1 John 4:1) to see if your prophecy there is from God or man.

According to your Free-willian Prophecy:

• if Bob chooses to receive Christ, then God births Bob anew.
• if Alice chooses to receive not Christ, then God births not Alice anew.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being born of God is whether a person "chooses to receive Christ".

Your prophecy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the unborn do not cause themselves to be born.

God births man anew according to the Apostle John with:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God
(John 1:10-13)
​

so John says God causes man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

None of the Holy Scripture that you cited states a man controls the hearing nor belief nor receiving nor repentance of the man in order to cause the man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent, so your prophecy is false.

The Apostle Paul declared that the saving faith/belief mentioned anywhere in Scripture is the work of God with:

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
​

so Paul says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD'S HOLY NAME, YHWH!!!

 

[TomL]

Ler us test your spirit (1 John 4:1) to see if your prophecy there is from God or man.

According to your Free-willian Prophecy:

• if Bob chooses to receive Christ, then God births Bob anew.
• if Alice chooses to receive not Christ, then God births not Alice anew.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being born of God is whether a person "chooses to receive Christ".

Your prophecy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the unborn do not cause themselves to be born.

God births man anew according to the Apostle John with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

so John says God causes man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

None of the Holy Scripture that you cited states a man controls the hearing nor belief nor receiving nor repentance of the man in order to cause the man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent, so your prophecy is false.

The Apostle Paul declared that the saving faith/belief mentioned anywhere in Scripture is the work of God with:

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

so Paul says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD'S HOLY NAME, YHWH!!!

You have just denied scripture

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

and Paul does not say God causes man to believe

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

 

[civic]

You have just denied scripture

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

and Paul does not say God causes man to believe

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Ditto and twisted it like a pretzel

 

[Kermos]

Same old stuff you have presented before and been refuted on

Your first mistake is to ignore the context of the verse the word appears in

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

For the verse defines what it means in its context

John 1:12–13 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 1:12 (NIV) — 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

The Apostle John wrote:

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:10-13)
​

In the Greek language, the word αἴρω (Strong's 142 - airó) conveys the concept of "a person taking something", but this Greek word αἴρω (airó) fails to appear in John 1:10-13; however, in John 1:12, the word received appears, and the Greek source word is ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon) conveying the concept of "something that unavoidably comes in", that is, "receive".

Your first traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) comes from your slashing and slaughtering the Apostolic testimony in John 1:10-13.

Your second problem is an appeal to non parallel texts at the expense of parallel text

John 5:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 5:43 says not "I am come in my Father’s name, and according to your own initiative ye receive me" which would make it a parallel text for your free-willian philosophy about John 1:12, but it is not, yet a powerful parallel text for John 1:10-13 with the Lord eliminating free will of man discerning the very Righteousness of God when He asked "And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (Luke 12:57), so man's will is incapable of determining the "choosing" of God to amy degree; in reality, Christ alone chooses man unto salvation (John 15:16, John 15:19) with man being the blessed recipient of God's great work. Mere man is not superior to Jesus the Lord who says "Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner'" (John 5:19) and again He mentions initiative in "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 5:30).

Your second traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that your own initiative judges righteously to choose Jesus in relation to your false free-willian philosophy about John 1:10-13.

your third problem you ignore the active voice in John 1:12 and appeal to passive voice examples

Your third traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that "you ignore the active voice in John 1:12" which Lord Jesus caused me to proclaim in the very post to which you replied of "John conveys 'joyfully receive' is the active meaning for ἔλαβον".

Your fourth problem is you ignore the lexical data

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a, b, c, d

Your fourth traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that "you ignore the" linguistics, semantics, grammar, context, concept, and Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) of John 1:10-13. For example, in "the lexical data" that you quoted, you deceptively neglected to include definitions a, b, c, and d when you quoted only definition e. Another example is that "the lexical data" for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon) in John 1:10-13 is straightforward "receive" just like God has been causing me to proclaim to you in this very thread!

There you go again ignoring the active voice

Go to Parallel Greek

Strong's Greek English Morphology 3745 [e] ὅσοι hosoi As many as RelPro-NMP 1161 [e] δὲ de however Conj 2983 [e] ἔλαβον elabon received V-AIA-3P

The parsing data is V-AIA-3P

indicating it is a verb aorist indicative active in the 3rd person

The key piece of data here is the active voice

Active vs. passive voice​

In a sentence written in the active voice, the subject of sentence performs the action. In a sentence written in the passive voice, the subject receives the action.

The subject performs the action

The subject here is the relative pronoun the many

ὅσοι (Root: οσος, LN: 59.7; pronoun, correlative, nominative, plural, masculine)
as many as
Contained in: Casus Pendens Clause
Syntactic Force: Correlative pronoun functioning as Subject of the dependent clause.



Albert L. Lukaszewski and Mark Dubis, The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament: Expansions and Annotations (Logos Bible Software, 2009), Jn 1:12.

so the many active voice receive Christ

Calvinist commentary as well

But to as many as received him. That none may be retarded by this stumbling-block, that the Jews despised and rejected Christ, the Evangelist exalts above heaven the godly who believe in him; for he says that by faith they obtain this glory of being reckoned the sons of God.

John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 1; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 40.


You have ignored context, ignored parallel texts, ignored lexical data, ignored grammar,
and simply persist in posting error.

Which not even Calvinist commentators can support

Yes, "The subject performs the action"; however, the source of the receive in John 1:12 is not the recipient of the receive in John 1:12. The subject of the sentence is limited to "joyfully receive" which is the active voice for ἔλαβον in John 1:12, and the following explains further.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant's surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

The Greek word ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive) lexicon definition is "receive", and the specific instance of ἔλαβον used by the Apostle John in John 1:12 is an active indicative aorist verb in the third person; therefore, the word ἔλαβον conveys the active concept of "joyfully" by the recipient of "receive" with the "receive" being initiated and caused by the the source, not the recipient, but truly God is the cause (John 1:12-13), so John conveys "joyfully receive" is the active meaning for ἔλαβον.

In the Greek lexicon etymology, "to be seized by" is found for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive).

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Let's follow John's blessed chain linking these people:

• John starts with the full population of the planet "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him" (John 1:10) as he builds toward the source of holiness which is "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John narrows the population to Israel only "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11).
• John further narrows the focus to a sub-population of Israel "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12)
• John equates the population of "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12) with the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John further equates the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) with the population of "believe in His name" increasing tempo about the source of holiness being"born of God" (John 1:13).
• John arrives at the source of holiness for every single one of us saints (holy ones) which is being "born of God" (John 1:13).

John's Good Message narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then further narrowing onward, so we can expand the focus starting with John's primary foundational point moving toward the secondary larger point and then the tertiary broader point and so on.

John's primary foundational point is "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) which results in John's secondary point of "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) and "children of God" (John 1:12, John 3:3-8) and "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9) which has implications for John's tertiary point "His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) which arrives at John's opening, broadest point which is the fact that "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) does not include everybody in "the world" (John 1:10).

John has the "born of God" as the first and primary position.

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• "many as received Him"
• "children of God"
• "believe in His name"
• "born of God"

See that John explicitly excludes "the will of man" as the cause for all of these.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to believe in Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to believe in Jesus.

Again, here is the passage:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation of the Word of God inquired "Brethren, what shall we do" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

The word "receive" means "unavoidably enters"; on the other hand, the word "accept" means "allowed to enter".

The work of "accept" is specifically disallowed in the passage with "nor of the will of man" because man causes not man to be "born of God" nor man causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", nor man causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The grammatical sense of the word "receive" indicates Christ "unavoidably enters" a joyfully receptive person according to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) because the Apostle indicates the "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", whom are the ones that God causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

About "receiving":

Man is not the cause of man receiving Christ (Luke 12:57).

God is the cause of man receiving Christ (John 1:12-13).

We Christians actively in thankfulness receive Christ!
​

About "believing":

Man is not the cause of man believing in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-10).

God is the cause of man believing in Christ (John 6:29).

We Christians joyfully believe in Christ!
​

All glory to King Jesus reigning on His Throne in the eternal Kingdom of God for His Salvation of man!!! Amen!!!

We Christians receive saving belief/faith from God our Savior (John 1:12-13, John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10)!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE SAVIOR JESUS!!!

 

[civic]

The Apostle John wrote:

​

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

In the Greek language, the word αἴρω (Strong's 142 - airó) conveys the concept of "a person taking something", but this Greek word αἴρω (airó) fails to appear in John 1:10-13; however, in John 1:12, the word received appears, and the Greek source word is ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon) conveying the concept of "something that unavoidably comes in", that is, "receive".

Your first traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) comes from your slashing and slaughtering the Apostolic testimony in John 1:10-13.



John 5:43 says not "I am come in my Father’s name, and according to your own initiative ye receive me" which would make it a parallel text for your free-willian philosophy about John 1:12, but it is not, yet a powerful parallel text for John 1:10-13 with the Lord eliminating free will of man discerning the very Righteousness of God when He asked "And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (Luke 12:57), so man's will is incapable of determining the "choosing" of God to amy degree; in reality, Christ alone chooses man unto salvation (John 15:16, John 15:19) with man being the blessed recipient of God's great work. Mere man is not superior to Jesus the Lord who says "Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner'" (John 5:19) and again He mentions initiative in "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 5:30).

Your second traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that your own initiative judges righteously to choose Jesus in relation to your false free-willian philosophy about John 1:10-13.



Your third traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that "you ignore the active voice in John 1:12" which Lord Jesus caused me to proclaim in the very post to which you replied of "John conveys 'joyfully receive' is the active meaning for ἔλαβον".



Your fourth traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that "you ignore the" linguistics, semantics, grammar, context, concept, and Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) of John 1:10-13. For example, in "the lexical data" that you quoted, you deceptively neglected to include definitions a, b, c, and d when you quoted only definition e. Another example is that "the lexical data" for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon) in John 1:10-13 is straightforward "receive" just like God has been causing me to proclaim to you in this very thread!



Yes, "The subject performs the action"; however, the source of the receive in John 1:12 is not the recipient of the receive in John 1:12. The subject of the sentence is limited to "joyfully receive" which is the active voice for ἔλαβον in John 1:12, and the following explains further.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant's surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

The Greek word ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive) lexicon definition is "receive", and the specific instance of ἔλαβον used by the Apostle John in John 1:12 is an active indicative aorist verb in the third person; therefore, the word ἔλαβον conveys the active concept of "joyfully" by the recipient of "receive" with the "receive" being initiated and caused by the the source, not the recipient, but truly God is the cause (John 1:12-13), so John conveys "joyfully receive" is the active meaning for ἔλαβον.

In the Greek lexicon etymology, "to be seized by" is found for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive).

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Let's follow John's blessed chain linking these people:

• John starts with the full population of the planet "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him" (John 1:10) as he builds toward the source of holiness which is "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John narrows the population to Israel only "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11).
• John further narrows the focus to a sub-population of Israel "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12)
• John equates the population of "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12) with the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John further equates the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) with the population of "believe in His name" increasing tempo about the source of holiness being"born of God" (John 1:13).
• John arrives at the source of holiness for every single one of us saints (holy ones) which is being "born of God" (John 1:13).

John's Good Message narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then further narrowing onward, so we can expand the focus starting with John's primary foundational point moving toward the secondary larger point and then the tertiary broader point and so on.

John's primary foundational point is "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) which results in John's secondary point of "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) and "children of God" (John 1:12, John 3:3-8) and "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9) which has implications for John's tertiary point "His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) which arrives at John's opening, broadest point which is the fact that "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) does not include everybody in "the world" (John 1:10).

John has the "born of God" as the first and primary position.

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• "many as received Him"
• "children of God"
• "believe in His name"
• "born of God"

See that John explicitly excludes "the will of man" as the cause for all of these.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to believe in Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to believe in Jesus.

Again, here is the passage:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation of the Word of God inquired "Brethren, what shall we do" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

The word "receive" means "unavoidably enters"; on the other hand, the word "accept" means "allowed to enter".

The work of "accept" is specifically disallowed in the passage with "nor of the will of man" because man causes not man to be "born of God" nor man causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", nor man causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The grammatical sense of the word "receive" indicates Christ "unavoidably enters" a joyfully receptive person according to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) because the Apostle indicates the "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", whom are the ones that God causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

About "receiving":

​

Man is not the cause of man receiving Christ (Luke 12:57).​

​

God is the cause of man receiving Christ (John 1:12-13).​

​

We Christians actively in thankfulness receive Christ!​

​

About "believing":

​

Man is not the cause of man believing in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-10).​

​

God is the cause of man believing in Christ (John 6:29).​

​

We Christians joyfully believe in Christ!​

​

All glory to King Jesus reigning on His Throne in the eternal Kingdom of God for His Salvation of man!!! Amen!!!

We Christians receive saving belief/faith from God our Savior (John 1:12-13, John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10)!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE SAVIOR JESUS!!!

Thanks for proving faith precedes regeneration. Bout time you come to the truth.

 

[TomL]

The Apostle John wrote:

​

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

In the Greek language, the word αἴρω (Strong's 142 - airó) conveys the concept of "a person taking something", but this Greek word αἴρω (airó) fails to appear in John 1:10-13; however, in John 1:12, the word received appears, and the Greek source word is ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon) conveying the concept of "something that unavoidably comes in", that is, "receive".

As you ignored previously the lexical data

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a, b, c, d

You will note both john 1:12 and the parallel John 5:43 appeaR

Your first traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) comes from your slashing and slaughtering the Apostolic testimony in John 1:10-13.

Sorry your gnostic inspired doctrine is what is slashing and slaughtering the apostolic testimony as you endlessly repeat the same thing over and over without a concern for rebuttal

John 5:43 says not "I am come in my Father’s name, and according to your own initiative ye receive me" which would make it a parallel text for your free-willian philosophy about John 1:12, but it is not, yet a powerful parallel text for John 1:10-13 with the Lord eliminating free will of man discerning the very Righteousness of God when He asked "And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (Luke 12:57), so man's will is incapable of determining the "choosing" of God to amy degree; in reality, Christ alone chooses man unto salvation (John 15:16, John 15:19) with man being the blessed recipient of God's great work. Mere man is not superior to Jesus the Lord who says "Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner'" (John 5:19) and again He mentions initiative in "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 5:30).

Why must you twist scripture

Deal with what it does state

John 5:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Can you claim the other is received involutary?

Can you deny the verse by the word receive speaks of recognizing the person?

Your second traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that your own initiative judges righteously to choose Jesus in relation to your false free-willian philosophy about John 1:10-13.

You fail to prove reception of Christ is involuntary

Thus you beg the question and simply spout your gnostic inspired doctrine

Your third traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that "you ignore the active voice in John 1:12" which Lord Jesus caused me to proclaim in the very post to which you replied of "John conveys 'joyfully receive' is the active meaning for ἔλαβον".

This is laughable as the active voice indicates the many actively receive him


They are doing the action but you ignorantly tried to used passive examples to define the word receive

Your fourth traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) is that "you ignore the" linguistics, semantics, grammar, context, concept, and Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) of John 1:10-13. For example, in "the lexical data" that you quoted, you deceptively neglected to include definitions a, b, c, and d when you quoted only definition e. Another example is that "the lexical data" for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon) in John 1:10-13 is straightforward "receive" just like God has been causing me to proclaim to you in this very thread!

You ignored the fact the lexical data quotes John 1:12 and John 5:43 as an example of this definition

So rather it is you who are deceptive here

Yes, "The subject performs the action"; however, the source of the receive in John 1:12 is not the recipient of the receive in John 1:12. The subject of the sentence is limited to "joyfully receive" which is the active voice for ἔλαβον in John 1:12, and the following explains further.

Sorry you are conflating your theology with the text again


. There is nothing in the text which supports your claim

The many receive him, that is they recognize his person, his authority

;

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant's surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

There you go again deceptively substituting passive voice examples rather than active voice examples as in the text

You have been told of this but you continue with deceptive passive voice examplesv

The Greek word ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive) lexicon definition is "receive", and the specific instance of ἔλαβον used by the Apostle John in John 1:12 is an active indicative aorist verb in the third person; therefore, the word ἔλαβον conveys the active concept of "joyfully" by the recipient of "receive" with the "receive" being initiated and caused by the the source, not the recipient, but truly God is the cause (John 1:12-13), so John conveys "joyfully receive" is the active meaning for ἔλαβον.

Sorry this is just repeat deception

there is nothing in the text other than the many recognizing christs person

as we saw in the lexical data and even Calvinist commentary

But to as many as received him. That none may be retarded by this stumbling-block, that the Jews despised and rejected Christ, the Evangelist exalts above heaven the godly who believe in him; for he says that by faith they obtain this glory of being reckoned the sons of God.

John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 1; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 40.

You will note receiving Christ is equated with believing on Christ even by calvin

as does the text

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:12–13 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 1:12 (NIV) — 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

but you just ignore the text to propagate your gnostic inspired doctrine

In the Greek lexicon etymology, "to be seized by" is found for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive).

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Sorry no

John shows all who believe on Christ receive that right

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

John 1:12 (NIV) — 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Let's follow John's blessed chain linking these people:

• John starts with the full population of the planet "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him" (John 1:10) as he builds toward the source of holiness which is "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John narrows the population to Israel only "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11).
• John further narrows the focus to a sub-population of Israel "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12)
• John equates the population of "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12) with the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, "born of God" (John 1:13).

All who believe on him receive that right

The right is to be a child of god

That happens in regeneration which only God can do and he does so when men believe

as you without thought just endlessly repeat yourself ignoring all rebuttal

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-88199