An Article on free will

[civic]

Biblical Order of Salvation below:

1- the preaching of the gospel- Rom 10
2- the hearing of the gospel- Rom 10
3- belief in the gospel- John 1:12
4- receiving the gospel- John 1:12
5- repentance Luke 5:32
6- the new birth that results in #7
7- salvation, eternal life- John 1:13
8- Justification- Rom 8:30
9- Sanctification- Rom 8
10- Glorification Rom 8:30

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

No one was born again until Pentecost period. The disciples were not born again until Pentecost. Jesus taught and told them to tarry until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would be with them and IN THEM. Not before Pentecost. It was at that time when they would be transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and through them. As Jesus told them it is better for you that I go away and send the Helper/Comforter who would lead them and guide them into all truth and bring to them remembrance of everything he had taught them. Until Pentecost they were still in hiding and fearful, carnal and in the flesh, not in the Spirit.

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.” 34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

hope this helps !!!

 

[TomL]

When you wrote "He regenerates man when they first receive that is believe on his son Jesus Christ", then you convey "first man sees King Jesus and second man works himself to believe in Jesus and third man becomes born of God".

Let's review your distinct sequence of discreet events:

1. man sees King Jesus of the Kingdom of God,
2. the work of man is to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent, and
3. man becomes born of God".

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (the Word of God, John 3:3) declares the Christ of us Christians, so your "man sees King Jesus of the Kingdom of God" nullifies the sayings of King Jesus of the Kingdom of God, yet Christians nullify not the Word of God.

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29) declares the Christ of us Christians, so your "the work of man is to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent" nullifies the sayings of King Jesus of the Kingdom of God, but Christians do not nullify the Word of God.



"but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" (John the Apostle, John 20:31) harmonizes beautifully with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29).



"He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (the Apostle John, John 1:10-13) harmonizes beautifully with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29) along with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (the Word of God, John 3:3).



"Now before the faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, having been locked up until the faith being about to be revealed, so that the Law has become our tutor unto Christ, so that we might be justified by faith. And the faith having come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through the faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Now if you are of Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, heirs according to the promise" (Paul the Apostle, Galatians 3:23-29) harmonizes beautifully with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29).



This table shows your internally conflicted position as to who "is the cause of regeneration":

TomL's LEFT HANDED POSITION		TomL's RIGHT HANDED POSITION
GOD is the cause of "born of God"		MAN is the cause of "born of God"
TomL's position: Yes, God		TomL's position: Yes, man
TomL's heart treasure (black): Yes God is the cause of our regeneration.		TomL's heart treasure (white): He regenerates man when they first receive that is believe on his son Jesus Christ,

As is clearly visible, the above table's left hand column is the opposite of the right hand column, so your belief is confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Another way to see your faith is that you do not believe that "God is the cause of our regeneration" because your step 3 of "man becomes born of God" requires your step 2 of "the work of man is to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent" while at the same time your step 3 is impossible without your step 2 of "the work of man is to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent"; therefore, you believe "man is the cause of our regeneration" which is a false prophecy (1 John 4:1).

The Truth (John 14:6) is "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (the Word of God, John 3:3).

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE OUR BELIEVER'S DELIVERER!!!

yes regeneration is preceded by faith. John 1:12 does not exist alone

Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life



The following verses show faith precedes life

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -

One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. (all agree quickening - being made alive speaks of regeneration when spoken of the physically living)


We are raised spiritually through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Of course unbelief does not profit so it must be through faith

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

.through - dia instrument or means in the genitive case - Vines

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

God regenerates those he has forgiven

foregiveness requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

I do not expect you will address it as you really did not address this

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text



Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

other than to simply reassert your doctrine

 

[Kermos]

In this blessed dialog, the Author and Perfecter of the faith declares the ordained order of salvation:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
(John 3:3-21)
​

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[TomL]

In this blessed dialog, the Author and Perfecter of the faith declares the ordained order of salvation:

​

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”​

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.​

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

(John 3:3-21)​

​

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE JESUS CHRIST!!!

Notice how born again

John 3:9–16 (NASB 2020) — 9 Nicodemus responded and said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you people do not accept our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[Kermos]

In context seeing as all gentiles do not repent this refers to the opportunity to repent unto life

The traditions of man (Matthew 15:9) is "In context seeing as all gentiles do not repent this refers to the opportunity to repent unto life" (clearly, you free-willian use the word "opportunity" to indicate everyone everywhere in all time has the ability to repent).

The Word of God is “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

In context, seeing as all gentiles do not repent this refers to the people of whom Lord Jesus says “You have hidden these things from” (Matthew 11:25).

God enables repentance though his message of repentance and his long suffering

The traditions of man (Matthew 15:9) is "God enables repentance though his message of repentance and his long suffering" (clearly, you free-willian use the word "enables" to indicate everyone everywhere in all time has the ability to repent).

The Word of God is “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

Apostolic testimony is in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18); therefore, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to repent.

God grants repentance though the Word of God (John 14:6, Romans 1:16) and the blessed patience of God brings every single one of God's chosen persons to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Acts 20:18–21 (KJV 1900) — 18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons, 19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews: 20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

The repentance mentioned by Paul (Acts 20:18–21) is graciously caused by the Word of God “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

The faith mentioned by Paul (Acts 20:18–21) is graciously caused by the Author and Perfecter of the faith "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29).

Acts 26:16–20 (KJV 1900) — 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

The repent mentioned by Paul (Acts 26:16–20) is graciously caused by the Word of God “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

The faith mentioned by Paul (Acts 26:16–20) is graciously caused by the Author and Perfecter of the faith "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29).

The works mentioned by Paul (Acts 26:16–20) is graciously wrought by God “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).

Romans 2:1–4 (KJV 1900) — 1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Apparently, “these things” (Matthew 11:25) of this rhetorical question "not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance" (Romans 2:4) are “hidden” (Matthew 11:25) from you.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The traditions of man (Matthew 15:9) is "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should cause themselves come to repentance" (the word of TomL and the Word of @Johann (per Johann's heartfelt Like/agreement with TomL's post)).

Apostolic testimony is "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

The Word of God is “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

Apparently, you and Johann are so very “wise and intelligent” (Matthew 11:25) that you are almighty to the degree that you “have revealed” (Matthew 11:25) to God that which Almighty God did not know.

You see, you preach that God is weak for Peter wrote that God is "not willing that any should perish", and you accurately wrote "all gentiles do not repent", so your heart's treasure is that God’s will is inconsequential, fallible, incapable, and faulty because God wills that no man perish yet man perishes.

The Lord God Almighty has me here proclaiming the strength and marvelousness of Jesus Christ who is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any of the presently born of God (2 Peter 1:1) as well as of the future born of God should perish, but that all the born of God should come to repentance; therefore, my heart's treasure is that according to God’s will none of the Assembly of God will perish, and this goes for God's chosen persons now and until the time of the Gentiles concludes.

Revelation 2:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

So, she couldn't repent on her own per Revelation 2:21.

But, you say people can repent on their own, yet you faul to present a single verse that shows even one person repenting in that person's own initiative.

not by effectually infusing repentance into man

The traditions of man (Matthew 15:9) is "not by producing repentance into man" (your final paragraph with your ambiguous "effectually infusing" replaced by the precise "producing").

Apostolic testimony is in accord with Jesus’ words (Matthew 11:25) with the Apostle Paul's "the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10, NASB1995).

You preach of your ability to repent before you are born of God, so you, arminianperspectives, believe that you can repent while you are still of the world (the same thing as "not born of God"), but your sorrow of the world produces death (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Your spirit promotes yourself to almighty god status meanwhile demoting Almighty God down to Broken God.

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIM WHO GENEROUSLY GRANTS REPENTANCE!!!

 

[TomL]

The traditions of man (Matthew 15:9) is "In context seeing as all gentiles do not repent this refers to the opportunity to repent unto life" (clearly you use the word opportunity to indicate everyone everywhere in all time has the ability to repent).

Lets see

The verse was

AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)

Obvious;y all gentiles have not repented so it is not that God caused all the gentiles to repent

So what have you posted that shows this is the tradition of man

The Word of God is “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25).

In context, seeing as all gentiles do not repent this refers to the people of whom Lord Jesus says “You have hidden these things from” (Matthew 11:25).

Not in context. Mat 11:25 is not the context of acts 11:18

Gentiles are not even considered in mat 11:25

Matthew 11:10–25 (KJV 1900) — 10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. 15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, 17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. 20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: 21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

And in context Jesus is speaking of the jewish leaders

But consider

"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes." This is not a commentary on their ability to believe, but their refusal to humble themselves and believe. God has openly revealed the truth about Jesus Christ, but by the very nature of that revealed truth, arrogance and pride are barriers to believing. The sense in which God has hidden the truth is simply that it requires humility to accept God's message, and when one humbles himself the truth is no longer hidden. That is why Jesus follows up with an invitation, a statement about his own humility, and a call to take his yoke and learn of him: "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (11:28-30) The invitation is to humble oneself and find rest.

Matthew 11:20–24 (KJV 1900) — 20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: 21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.


This passage does not support total depravity, but instead, directly refutes it because Jesus teaches that everyone is capable of believing whether or not they have done so (e.g., Tyre and Sidon).

Consider also

Revelation 2:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

God gave Jezebel space - opportunity to repent, but she repented not

 

[Kermos]

Where did you deal with fact that you can have no life unless you do that?

You believe you cause yourself to be born, that is man causes himself to be "born of God", based upon your writing "believing must be done before you can have life but to make it plain John 20:31" because you use "and that believing you have life in His name" (John 20:31) as a sequence of events instead of correlated events (see your post's closing 3 paragraphs). No person causes oneself to be born, so your belief is confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).

You, in your question, blindly ignore Christ's saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves" (John 6:53).

Your question was made null and void by the Word of God before you were born of flesh.

Regeneration imparts life

Regeneration means "born of God", so all people are dead (Ephesians 2:1-4) except for persons whom God births anew; therefore, a dead person cannot free-will choose to eat Christ's blessed Body nor drink the precious Blood of Christ, after all, the Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3), so only we Christians who are born of God have Life and eat Christ's blessed Body nor drink the precious Blood of Christ.

it cannot therefore precede eating his flesh and drinking his blood

You preach "'born of God' cannot therefore precede eating his flesh and drinking his blood".

Therefore, your heart falsifies "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves" (John 6:53) into your abominable "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you first eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves" (TomL 6:53).

The passage refutes your theology

You prophesy falsely (1 John 4:1) because, in Christ, I say unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourself.

John 6:35–56 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe. 37 Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” 41 So then the Jews were complaining about Him because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” 42 And they were saying, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’ ?” 43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Stop complaining among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down out of heaven, so that anyone may eat from it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give for the life of the world also is My flesh.” 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him.

I just love the Word of God!!!

coming and believing on Christ is figuratively equivalent to eating and drinking

Coming to Christ assures one will not hunger

To be utterly clear, your thoughts about your self-willed “Coming to Christ” is anti-truth because, long before you were flesh, the Holy Word of God established:

​

he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God​

(John 3:21)​

​

So, every Christian that comes to the Light, whom is Christ (John 1:4), is wrought in God. Christ is the Truth (John 14:6). Praise be to the Living God!

Believing on Christ assures you will not thirst

Continuing to be utterly clear, your “self-willed believing in Christ unto salvation” is the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9), not the Majestic Word of God who says:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

and that must be done before you can have life

but to make it plain

John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

You believe that man causes himself to be "born of God" based upon your writing "believing must be done before you can have life but to make it plain John 20:31" because you use "and that believing you have life in His name" (John 20:31) as a sequence of events instead of correlated events.

The Apostle makes it plain and clear.

"but these have been written so that you believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you have life in His name" (John 20:31).

"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13).

"the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son" (1 John 5:10-12).

Since the Apostle John wrote all these things, then your "believing must be done before you can have life" is false prophecy (1 John 4:1).

If you do not believe that you eat Christ's flesh and drink Christ's precious blood, then you have no life in you, TomL, because Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves" (John 6:53), but your heart adulterates the precious Word of God into "Falsely, falsely, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves" (the word of TomL).

You heart's treasure of "It has to do with his words not being literal but figurative" regarding John 6:49-63 (proof post #2,130) translates into you literally rejecting Christ's Body and the precious Blood of Christ (John 6:49-63, Matthew 26:26-28, 1 Corinthians 11:24-34) - see the Word of God "He who rejects Me" (John 12:48).

The Glorious Word says:

​

My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink​

(John 6:55)​

​

Yet the word of man rejects the true food and the true drink by loving the traditions of men "It has to do with his words not being literal but figurative" (the word of TomL) leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Do not be deceived, your heart converts the true food into the untrue food because of your "figurative" concept application against the Word of God.

Your heart's "It refers to believing and coming to Christ else you have no life in you" regarding the clearly pure Word of God "It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life" (John 6:63), so your heart adulterates John 6:63 into "It is your self-willed believing and coming to Christ that gives Life; the flesh profits everying; the words that I have spoken to you are nothing without your self-willed believing and coming to Christ" (the word of TomL obliterating the Holy Spirit out of John 6:63); therefore, you are one who "does not receive My sayings" (the My being Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:48).

Now, after seeing "He who rejects Me" and "does not receive My sayings" the remainder is self-explanatory:

​

He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day​

(John 12:48).​

​

To be utterly clear, your "self-willed believing in Christ unto salvation" is the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9), not the Majestic Word of God who says:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

Continuing to be utterly clear, your thoughts about your self-willed "coming to Christ" is anti-truth because, long before you were flesh, the Holy Word of God established:

​

he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God​

(John 3:21)​

​

So, every Christian that comes to the Light, whom is Christ (John 1:4), is wrought in God. Christ is the Truth (John 14:6). Praise be to the Living God!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

 

[TomL]

You believe you cause yourself to be born, that is man causes himself to be "born of God", based upon your writing "believing must be done before you can have life but to make it plain John 20:31" because you use "and that believing you have life in His name" (John 20:31) as a sequence of events instead of correlated events (see your post's closing 3 paragraphs). No person causes oneself to be born, so your belief is confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).

How did you address the fact you can have no life unless

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood

Clearly there is an order here if not temporal at least logically

You must eat the flesh drink the blood before you can have life

the same is true here

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

logically, you must believe before you have life

You, in your question, blindly ignore Christ's saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves" (John 6:53).

That is laughable it is you who are ignoring the obvious fact eating and drinking precede the having life

Your question was made null and void by the Word of God before you were born of flesh.



Regeneration means "born of God", so all people are dead (Ephesians 2:1-4) except for persons whom God births anew; therefore, a dead person cannot free-will choose to eat Christ's blessed Body nor drink the precious Blood of Christ, after all, the Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3), so only we Christians who are born of God have Life and eat Christ's blessed Body nor drink the precious Blood of Christ.

That is an assumption

You assume dead means total inability rather than separation from God due to rebellion

Ephesians 2:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

shown to be

Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


or take the prodigal son

Luke 15:10–24 (KJV 1900) — 10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth. 11 And he said, A certain man had two sons: 12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. 15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. 17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father’s have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. 20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

The son was separated from his father due to rebellion

You preach "'born of God' cannot therefore precede eating his flesh and drinking his blood".

Just like Jesus does

Why do you oppose Christ?

He says unless you do that, you have no life

You falsify his words and say you must have life so you can eat his flesh and drink his blood

Instead of rambling on

why don't you just deal with and believe the words of Christ

 

[Kermos]

You just cannot deal with the fact even those of like theology with you reject your understanding

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

I reject your god Calvin, of whom you take as your own word again and again and again, even Calvinists such as your god Carson; therefore, in Truth (John 14:6), you number yourself among "Calvinists" because you "tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text".

]
as did the context

and correlating scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 2:37–38 (NASB 2020) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what are we to do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

You cannot deal with the fact that scripture interprets scripture and that men are told there is something they must do and never when asking what must we do are they ever told nothing. God will effectually cause you to believe if he so desires

That is the same situation we see in john 6:29

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

again

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

The jews understand him to be telling them they themselves must believe.

so thery ask

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?


Christ does not correct them

he does not tell them there is nothing you can do

This would have been an excellent opportunity to set them straight if there was any validity to your theology

but he doesn't

Instead he states

John 6:32–36 (NASB 2020) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

reinforcing their need to believe on him

rather than deal with context you assume a meaning convenient for your theology and ignore everything contrary to it

and that includes the context and those of a like theology with you

Rright, you do that all by yourself

As opposed to you who preach by your own God - yourself

Sorry it is not Jesus who has you proclaiming error

It's fealty to your doctrine

Jesus would not have you ignore context and the while council of God

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

again

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

You have addressed none of this and just assume an interpretation consistent with your theology

thus it is you who depend on the tradition of men

yet even those of your own tradition oppose your interpretation because they consider context

and so even Calvinist commentators agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Da Carson

Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent. Such language may reflect a specific Old Testament passage, such as Malachi 3:1 where God promises to send, in due time, the ‘messenger of the covenant’, but in fact the language is reminiscent of the entire ‘sentness’ theme in the Fourth Gospel. Jesus is supremely the one who reveals God to us, precisely because, unlike any other person, he has been in the courts of heaven and has been sent from there so that the world might be saved through him (e.g. 3:11–17). Faith, faith with proper Christological object, is what God requires, not ‘works’ in any modern sense of the term. And even the faith that we must exercise is the fruit of God’s activity (cf. notes on vv. 44, 65). Although the noun ‘faith’ is not used, this ‘work of God’ turns out to be nothing else than faith, making this ‘work of God’ diametrically opposed to what Paul means by ‘the works of the law’. As a result, the thought of the passage is almost indistinguishable from Paul: ‘For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law’ (Rom. 3:28).

D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.

In response to Jesus’ command in verse 27 to pursue the spiritual, nonperishing food of eternal life, the people said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” They filtered Jesus’ words through their own warped minds and thought He was saying they needed to do some works to earn eternal life. What was that work they should do, they wondered. Similarly, the rich young ruler asked Him, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” (Matt. 19:16), and in Luke 10:25 “a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, ‘Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’” It was a familiar matter for the Jews to pursue eternal life through their religion, so the question was common. True salvation, of course, is not by works (Titus 3:5). Thus, Jesus answered their question by noting that the only work acceptable to God is to believe in Him whom He has sent. Salvation is by grace alone (Eph. 2:8–9) through faith alone (Rom 3:28) in Christ alone (Acts 4:12),

MacArthur, John. John 1-21 MacArthur New Testament Commentary Two Volume Set (Macarthur New Testament Commentary Serie) (Kindle Locations 4677-4684). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

You have no support as even those of your own theology reject your interpretation

Again, TomL, you wrote something correct with "it is not Jesus who has you proclaiming error" because Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming the Truth (John 14:6).

Your gods, whom you preach, are your tools to destroy the context of the Word of God in order to make false statements like "you proclaiming error".

Your god Carson according to your context is the god you preach with "The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith" instead of the clear, precise and pure Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that His sayings are pure, clear, and precise “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you practice lawlessness with your "Utter nonsense" about the Word of God recorded in John 6:29 (proof post #2,126), and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

The definition of saving faith/belief occurs in this single sentence:

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29)
​

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

The King of Glory's the work of God specifically includes God's work while specifically excluding "the work of man"; therefore, every mention of saving faith/belief in the Holy Scripture is governed by this blessed definition.

Since you wrote “In context its meaning is that which God requires of man” (the word of TomL), then your heart converts John 6:29 into “This is the work of man that God requires of you, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man as authored by TomL, see Matthew 15:9); therefore, you disobey the voice from Heaven saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5) because you listen to man instead of listening to the beloved Son.

The full and complete context of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Author and Perfecter of the faith, John 6:29) is specifically “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

As is evident, you call “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) your abominable "Utter nonsense".

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

 

[TomL]

I reject your god Calvin, of whom you take as your own word again and again and again, even Calvinists such as your god Carson; therefore, in Truth (John 14:6), you number yourself among "Calvinists" because you "tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text".

LOL Calvin is your God. It is he your namesake comes from. It is his theology you believe and propagate. He got it from Augustine who got it from the Manichean gnostics

Again, TomL, you wrote something correct with "it is not Jesus who has you proclaiming error" because Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming the Truth (John 14:6).

Yes the error is due to Manichean gnosticism not Christ

Your gods, whom you preach, are your tools to destroy the context of the Word of God in order to make false statements like "you proclaiming error".

Calvin, DA Carson, Robertson the Geneva bible notes are all your peers - Your gods, which teach the same determination as were preached by the gnostic cults and currently propagated by those of your theology

deal with the argument

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text
but the phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ

John 6:32–36 (KJV 1900) — 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.


They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

but they believe not

Christ lays the fault at their feet, They do not believe. He does not say God withheld faith from them

not thas

 

[civic]

I reject your god Calvin, of whom you take as your own word again and again and again, even Calvinists such as your god Carson; therefore, in Truth (John 14:6), you number yourself among "Calvinists" because you "tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text".





Again, TomL, you wrote something correct with "it is not Jesus who has you proclaiming error" because Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming the Truth (John 14:6).

Your gods, whom you preach, are your tools to destroy the context of the Word of God in order to make false statements like "you proclaiming error".

Your god Carson according to your context is the god you preach with "The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith" instead of the clear, precise and pure Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that His sayings are pure, clear, and precise “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you practice lawlessness with your "Utter nonsense" about the Word of God recorded in John 6:29 (proof post #2,126), and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

The definition of saving faith/belief occurs in this single sentence:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

The King of Glory's the work of God specifically includes God's work while specifically excluding "the work of man"; therefore, every mention of saving faith/belief in the Holy Scripture is governed by this blessed definition.

Since you wrote “In context its meaning is that which God requires of man” (the word of TomL), then your heart converts John 6:29 into “This is the work of man that God requires of you, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man as authored by TomL, see Matthew 15:9); therefore, you disobey the voice from Heaven saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5) because you listen to man instead of listening to the beloved Son.

The full and complete context of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Author and Perfecter of the faith, John 6:29) is specifically “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

As is evident, you call “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) your abominable "Utter nonsense".

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

We @TomL reject Calvin lol.

 

[civic]

LOL Calvin is your God. It is he your namesake comes from. It is his theology you believe and propagate. He got it from Augustine who got it from the Manichean gnostics


Yes the error is due to Manichean gnosticism not Christ



Calvin, DA Carson, Robertson the Geneva bible notes are all your peers - Your gods, which teach the same determination as were preached by the gnostic cults and currently propagated by those of your theology

deal with the argument

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text
but the phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ

John 6:32–36 (KJV 1900) — 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.


They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

but they believe not

Christ lays the fault at their feet, They do not believe. He does not say God withheld faith from them

not thas

Talk about projecting lol this one takes the cake

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Talk about projecting lol this one takes the cake

Not sure it is. The anti-calvinists quote Calvin far more than anyone here who believes in even a single point of Calvinism (and not others).

 

[civic]

Not sure it is. The anti-calvinists quote Calvin far more than anyone here who believes in even a single point of Calvinism (and not others).

We use him as a hostile witness again Calvinists like we do with Barnes and others as well.

 

[TomL]

Talk about projecting lol this one takes the cake

It certainly does but I guess being without any real answer he had to say something

 

[TomL]

We @TomL reject Calvin lol.

And the theology he got from him.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

We use him as a hostile witness again Calvinists like we do with Barnes and others as well.

It's an appeal to authority, either way.

 

[civic]

It's an appeal to authority, either way.

Calvinist theologians, creeds and Calvin are the authority of Calvinists

Just like Arminius is the authority in Arminianism and Leighton with Provisionism and the popes in Catholic religion, Smith In Mormonism etc

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Calvinist theologians, creeds and Calvin are the authority of Calvinists

Not everyone here who you label a Calvinist is a Calvinist.