An Article on free will

[TomL]

The above is a straw man since he is not a calvinist. He uses Calvin and calvinists theologians against the calvinist poster on the forum. He always has always will since he has been doing that for years on other forums.

How do I know this to be true?

I was a calvinist for many years and use to debate with him all of the time. @TomL

hope this helps !!!

It is rather amusing that he imagines the man he gets his theology from, and he follows is somehow my god when I reject his theology

Seems rather convoluted, but I guess he has no real answer for the number of Calvinist sources which reject his understanding

 

[civic]

Newsflash I am not the calvinist here you are

Again you simply ignore the facts

first you appeal to passive uses of the word receive

ignoring the fact receive is active in John 1:12

This was pointed out but you simply ignore it

just as you ignored multiple citiations from the lexicons and other facts as was p;osted previouskly



You address not a one

You failed to address parallel text

you ignored the fact that you commit a basic error of hermeneutic by appealing to non-parallel contexts

You ignored the lexicons while appealing to strongs

but it was an incomplete disingenuous citing of strongs which simply left off support for my position

By your criteria the truncated deceptive appeal to strongs indicate your lord

you additionally failed to address my argument seen above

but most of all you ignored scripture for the verse itself defines the word

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:12 (LSB) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

Further as i argued and you ignored

Your interpretation has men being born again by having Christ indwell them before receiving the right to be born again


receiving the right to become a child of God is to receive the right to be born again

one receiving that right by receiving believing on Christ


In short you simply repeat the same failed arguments while failing to address the rebuttal of them

A rather disingenuous and insufficient methodology

Yes the active indicative means I'm doing the action, not the action is being done to me and I;m the passive one.

If they knew basic grammar they would not be believe the way they do with John 1:12. Receiving and Believing are both active in the sentence therefor removing any calvinistic interpretation of the passage showing its false and untenable.

 

[TomL]

Yes the active indicative means I'm doing the action, not the action is being done to me and I;m the passive one.

If they knew basic grammar they would not be believe the way they do with John 1:12. Receiving and Believing are both active in the sentence therefor removing any calvinistic interpretation of the passage showing its false and untenable.

Basic grammar, lexical meaning, Parallel texts and scriptural context and exegesis all refute his view

His simply ignores all that and repeats his claims without ever bothering to address rebuttal.

 

[Kermos]

Maybe one day I will get to say that of you

I proclaim the One True King Jesus of the Kingdom of God to you, and this beloved King says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). TomL, your "Maybe one day I will get to say that of you" could honestly be accomplished based upon God granting the ability to see the One True King Jesus of the Kingdom of God.

In the meantime


here is another commentary on the greek text

29. The Lord deals with the error and the truth in the question which was put to Him. In the one work which God requires of man and man owes to God, all fragmentary and partial works are included. It is a true work as answering to man’s will, but it issues in that which is not a work. This is the work of God, that ye believe on … Comp. 1 John 3:23 (his commandment).
that ye believe (ἵνα πιστεύητε)] The phrase marks not only the simple fact of believing (τὸ πιστεύειν), but the effort directed to and issuing in this belief. Comp. 4:34, note. And again it expresses not the single decisive act (ἵνα πιστεύσητε, 13:19), but the continuous state of faith.
This simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works. Faith is the life of works; works are the necessity of faith.


Brooke Foss Westcott and Arthur Westcott, eds., The Gospel according to St. John Introduction and Notes on the Authorized Version (Classic Commentaries on the Greek New Testament; London: J. Murray, 1908), 101.


And by a noted Calvinist

28. The crowd misunderstands the thrust of Jesus’ prohibition. His words ‘Do not work for food that spoils’ (v. 27) did not focus on the nature of work, but on what is or is not an appropriate goal. His point was not that they should attempt some novel form of work, but that merely material notions of blessing are not worth pursuing. They respond by focusing all attention on work: (lit.) ‘What must we do in order to work the works of God?’ The expression ‘the works of God’ does not refer to the works that God performs, but (as in NIV) to the works God requires. Their question therefore resolves into this:Tell us what works God requires, and we will perform them. From John’s perspective, their naivete is formidable. They display no doubt about their intrinsic ability to meet any challenge God may set them;they evince no sensitivity to the fact that eternal life is first and foremost a gift within the purview of theSon of Man (v. 27).29. Jesus sets them straight: The work of God–i.e. what God requires–is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent. D.A. Carson - Gospel of John

Maybe you should just give it up

You wrote "In the meantime here is another traditions of men on the greek text", and the traditions of man leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9). You love your Calvinistic commentators/traditions of men such as "The work of God–i.e. what God requires–is faith" (TomL/Carson 6:29) because you keep posting them and posting them, yet anyone who deviates from the Word of God is lost. Regardless, you have a astoundingly high error rate with context, TomL.

Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

1:12 The phrase believe in His name occurs three times in the Gospel of John (1:12; 2:23; 3:18). Name does not refer to the term by which He is called, but to what His name stands for—the Lord is salvation (Ex. 3:14, 15). In this context, the phrase means to believe that Jesus is the Word, the life, and the Light—that is, He is the Christ, the Son of God (20:31). To them He gave the right refers to the legitimate entitlement to the position of children of God. None of us was naturally a child of God. We were by nature children of wrath and condemned apart from Christ. Imagine being a pauper and then being given the right to inherit the riches of a king and the position of royalty. By believing, undeserving sinners can become full members of God’s family.

1:13 born … of God: This new spiritual birth is not of blood, that is, by physical generation or by parents. Nor is the new birth of the will of the flesh, that is, by personal effort. Neither is the birth of the will of man, that is, something accomplished by human effort. The new birth is the work of God alone. It is a gift to be received (4:10, 14), not a reward achieved by individual effort. The new birth is based on relationship with Christ, not personal position. The relationship, however, proceeds from the position of Christ as the mediator. Christ is life (1:4; 14:6). Those who trust Him are born of God, meaning they are given spiritual life.1

1 Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald Barclay Allen, and H. Wayne House, Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Commentary (Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers, 1999), 1311.

CHILDREN OF GOD. Persons in this category are only those who of the fallen race are regenerated as a result of faith in Christ1

1 Merrill F. Unger, “Children of God,” ed. R.K. Harrison, The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1988).


The Means of Regeneration

God regenerates (John 1:13) according to His will (James 1:18) through the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) when a person believes (1:12) the Gospel as revealed in the Word (1 Pet. 1:23).

Ryrie’s basic theology

Regeneration is an act of God, not a cooperative effort between God and man. That is not to say, however, that faith is unnecessary in salvation. It may be suggested that although regeneration and faith are distinct, they occur simultaneously. The two are set side by side in John 1:12–13. In John 1:12, at the moment of receiving Christ (believing), the person becomes a child of God; in John 1:13 it indicates that at that very moment the persons have been born of God. Surely there is a mystery here that surpasses human comprehension.

Moody’s handbook of theology

One becomes a child of God is born again by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

But all one need do to see your errolr is consifer

You basically argue one muct receive Christ in the sense of him indwelling to recieve that right

for christ in you is regeneration

So you have therm receiving this before even having the right to


an absolute absurdity you do not address


So you offer nothing but your own opinion and a refusal to be corrected by scripture, lexical data or expert Greek commentary

Regarding John 1:10-13, you wrote:

But all one need do to see your errolr is consifer

You basically argue one muct receive Christ in the sense of him indwelling to recieve that right

for christ in you is regeneration

So you have therm receiving this before even having the right to
(the word of TomL)
​

You inject your context of "argue one muct receive Christ in the sense of him indwelling to recieve that right", but your order of occurrence context is absent from the composition that God caused me to write, including "John equates the population of 'but as many as received Him' (John 1:12) with the population of 'children of God' (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, 'born of God' (John 1:13)", in fact, Lord Jesus had me proclaim "John has the 'born of God' as the first and primary position"; therefore, you inject false context where your context belongs not, and it's no surprise because you audaciously inject your false context into the Word of God.

Another point about your order of occurrence context, you fail to recognize the past tense nature of "He gave the right to become children of God" (farther back in time) in relation to "as many as received Him" (more recent in time), so "born of God" is the same as "children of God" thus both of these ways of expressing the same state precedes the "as many as received Him" state; therefore, your "as many as received Him" precedes "born of God" context is hogwash (see the Bob and Alice example below).

Do you have anything bides your opinion to offer





Regeneration takes one from death to life and the bible is clear this happens upon faith

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

scripture does not support you



Again we saw scripture does not support you

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Nothing in the text states God causes men to receive him

To believe is man's responsibility


to the gentiles it was stated

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
to the Jew having crucified Christ

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Never were they corrected

Not only do you failure to interpret the context correctly but you ignore the whole council of God

to propagate your false doctrine.



Yet another passage you mishandle trying to justify your theology rather than understanding the text

Don't leave out verse 27

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text


Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentators agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

other voices


Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.



Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows






John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.







The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.



Messianic work.





τὰ ἔργα τοῦ θεοῦ must not be taken to mean ‘the works which God works,’ but, as in Jer. 48:10 (31:10 LXX): 1 Cor. 15:58, the works well pleasing to God.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 760–761.












Yeshua-Jesus is telling them how to receive eternal life. The people then ask Yeshua-Jesus, [57]“What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” The response of the people is referring to how they can work and receive eternal life which is salvation. Yeshua-Jesus sets the record straight by answering, [58]“This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” In other words, Yeshua-Jesus tells them that if they want to do the works of God for eternal life then believe in him who God sent. That is the work needed for salvation, believe him, Yeshua-Jesus. Yeshua-Jesus did not tell them that the works of God are only for those who are chosen or elected. Then the people, they want to see a sign so that they can believe in him.



John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee?



Garza, Dr. Al. Calvinism Challenged: How The Hebrew Bible, Jewish Sources, Jesus, The Apostles and Paul Refute Calvinism. . Sefer Press Publishing. Kindle Edition.

WOW! That's three posts in a row that you posted something accurate, TomL, congratulations, that "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" is marvelous!

You posted "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" regarding both of John 1:12 and the following:

According to your Free-willian Prophecy:

• if Bob chooses to receive Christ, then God births Bob anew.
• if Alice chooses to receive not Christ, then God births not Alice anew.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being born of God is whether a person "chooses to receive Christ".

so your posting of "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" absolutely affirms that the Free-willian Philosophy results in a person, who chooses to receive Christ, is that person forcing God to cause that person to be born of God.

Whether "Instrumental" instead of "inconsequential" or "Instrumental" instead of "insignificant" or "Instrumental" instead of "incidental" or whatever, it matters not because the post has the word "Instrumental" right where it matters. TomL, your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) failed to avoid posting the phrase "Instrumental cause".

There are NO coincidences because Lord and God Jesus Christ is in control, so I acknowledge this One True Almighty God caused you, TomL, to post the very thing that you, TomL, didn't want to post thus showing the folly of the rest of your own post, TomL. Praise be to the Truth (John 14:6)!

According to the Apostle John, first God births man anew as the foundational beginning with:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God
(John 1:10-13)
​

and John says God expands from birthing man anew into causing man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

This writing of John's accords with Lord Jesus saying “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).

continued to post #2,245

 

[Kermos]

continued from post #2,244

Digging further in your post, @TomL, you prophesy falsely about the Living God and Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 4:1) based on your God Calvin, whose word you take up as your own word not just once but you treasure your God Calvin's word so much that you take up your God Calvin's word twice in your post after you repeated your God Calvin's word again and again and again in a plurality of posts, with "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the word of Calvinist TomL) against the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) which arrives at your adulteration “This is the NOT work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent[/b]” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

The Apostles state not that a man controls the belief of the man in order to cause the man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent in any of the Holy Scripture that you cited or quoted, so your prophecy is false; moreover, all your gods, such as your God Calvin, certainly fail to overturn the Word of God!

For example, in these passages, you conjure up a man-centered belief structure based on the word of man instead of the Word of God, just like you do with John 6:28-29, instead of God's messenger's Righteous response that saving belief be in the hearer:

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
​

Both believe and repent are works of God in man, and God's messengers say absolutely nothing different than belief is a work of God.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us delve deeper into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

The Apostle Paul declared that the faith/belief mentioned in Galatians 3:26 is the work of God with:

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
​

so Paul says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God
(John 1:10-13)
​

so John says God causes man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

John started very broad in John 1:10 until John finished very narrowly in John 1:13 with God being the cause of "born" (John 1:13) and "believe" (John 1:12) and "children" (John 1:12) and "received" (John 1:12) for every person regenerated by God and this does not include every person in the "world".

And both Apostles are in accord with the Lord Jesus who says man believing in Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29)
​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

You are out of accord with all these wonderful Holy Scriptures of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, John 3:3-21, and John 6:29 because you believe:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as WORKED THE FIRST STEP TO GRAB HOLY KING Him, to them He ALLOWED THEIR SECOND STEP TO CAUSE THEMSELVES to become children of God, even to those who AS THEIR THIRD STEP CHOSE IN THEIR OWN SELF-WILL TO believe in His name, who were AS THE FOURTH STEP born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God BECAUSE OF THE FIRST STEP AND THE THIRD STEP
(the culmination of TomL's heart treasure (Matthew 15:16-19))
​

And, of John 3:3-21, your spirit prophecies:

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe, how will you CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven EXCEPT MEN WHO JUDGE RIGHT IN THEIR OWN INITIATIVE TO BELIEVE IN ME AND He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever IS UNBORN OF GOD CHOOSING TO BELIEVE will have BORN THIS UNBORN WHOEVER'S SELF INTO eternal life.
16 For God so loved EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever LOVES THE DARKNESS RATHER THAN THE LIGHT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME to judge EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, but that EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME might be saved through Him. 18 He who FORCED GOD TO CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE BORN AGAIN BECAUSE OF HIS SELF-WILLED BELIEVING in Him is not judged; he who does not CHOOSE TO believe has been judged already, because he has not CHOSEN TO BELIEVE in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is NOT born again he can see the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh AND THIS EVIL FLESH PLEASES GOD, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know EXACTLY where it comes from and EXACTLY where it is going BECAUSE YOUR CHOOSING OF ME CONTROLS YOUR BECOMING BORN OF THE SPIRIT; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
(the word of TomL (no longer the Word of God))
​

So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the Holy Spirit this Word of God marvelous sayings:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
(John 3:3-21)
​

You embrace "other voices" (your words) than the Voice of God. You love stranger's voices such as Vincent, Dods, and Alford whose self-willed word is "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent." (as preached by TomL, Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761), so your Lord Alford tells the lies of the devil about Lord Jesus Christ's pure, clear and precise Voice of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) which, by extension of you taking your Lord Alford's word as your own word, means that you do the same as your idol Alford.

Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers" (John 10:1-5).

Your heart's spirit is proven to make false statements about God and man, and your own interpretation is confusion. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[civic]

continued from post #2,244

Digging further in your post, @TomL, you prophesy falsely about the Living God and Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 4:1) based on your God Calvin, whose word you take up as your own word not just once but you treasure your God Calvin's word so much that you take up your God Calvin's word twice in your post after you repeated your God Calvin's word again and again and again in a plurality of posts, with "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the word of Calvinist TomL) against the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) which arrives at your adulteration “This is the NOT work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent[/b]” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

The Apostles state not that a man controls the belief of the man in order to cause the man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent in any of the Holy Scripture that you cited or quoted, so your prophecy is false; moreover, all your gods, such as your God Calvin, certainly fail to overturn the Word of God!

For example, in these passages, you conjure up a man-centered belief structure based on the word of man instead of the Word of God, just like you do with John 6:28-29, instead of God's messenger's Righteous response that saving belief be in the hearer:

​

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.​

​

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

​

Both believe and repent are works of God in man, and God's messengers say absolutely nothing different than belief is a work of God.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us delve deeper into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

​

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).​

​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

The Apostle Paul declared that the faith/belief mentioned in Galatians 3:26 is the work of God with:

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

so Paul says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

so John says God causes man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

John started very broad in John 1:10 until John finished very narrowly in John 1:13 with God being the cause of "born" (John 1:13) and "believe" (John 1:12) and "children" (John 1:12) and "received" (John 1:12) for every person regenerated by God and this does not include every person in the "world".

And both Apostles are in accord with the Lord Jesus who says man believing in Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

You are out of accord with all these wonderful Holy Scriptures of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, John 3:3-21, and John 6:29 because you believe:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as WORKED THE FIRST STEP TO GRAB HOLY KING Him, to them He ALLOWED THEIR SECOND STEP TO CAUSE THEMSELVES to become children of God, even to those who AS THEIR THIRD STEP CHOSE IN THEIR OWN SELF-WILL TO believe in His name, who were AS THE FOURTH STEP born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God BECAUSE OF THE FIRST STEP AND THE THIRD STEP​

(the culmination of TomL's heart treasure (Matthew 15:16-19))​

​

And, of John 3:3-21, your spirit prophecies:

​

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe, how will you CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven EXCEPT MEN WHO JUDGE RIGHT IN THEIR OWN INITIATIVE TO BELIEVE IN ME AND He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever IS UNBORN OF GOD CHOOSING TO BELIEVE will have BORN THIS UNBORN WHOEVER'S SELF INTO eternal life.​

16 For God so loved EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever LOVES THE DARKNESS RATHER THAN THE LIGHT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME to judge EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, but that EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME might be saved through Him. 18 He who FORCED GOD TO CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE BORN AGAIN BECAUSE OF HIS SELF-WILLED BELIEVING in Him is not judged; he who does not CHOOSE TO believe has been judged already, because he has not CHOSEN TO BELIEVE in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is NOT born again he can see the kingdom of God.”​

4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh AND THIS EVIL FLESH PLEASES GOD, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know EXACTLY where it comes from and EXACTLY where it is going BECAUSE YOUR CHOOSING OF ME CONTROLS YOUR BECOMING BORN OF THE SPIRIT; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

(the word of TomL (no longer the Word of God))​

​

So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the Holy Spirit this Word of God marvelous sayings:

​

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”​

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.​

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

(John 3:3-21)​

​

You embrace "other voices" (your words) than the Voice of God. You love stranger's voices such as Vincent, Dods, and Alford whose self-willed word is "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent." (as preached by TomL, Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761), so your Lord Alford tells the lies of the devil about Lord Jesus Christ's pure, clear and precise Voice of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) which, by extension of you taking your Lord Alford's word as your own word, means that you do the same as your idol Alford.

Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers" (John 10:1-5).

Your heart's spirit is proven to make false statements about God and man, and your own interpretation is confusion. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE JESUS CHRIST!!!

fallacy alert- @TomL like myself are not calvinists.

hope this helps !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

fallacy alert- @TomL like myself are not calvinists.

hope this helps !!!

Yeah. I thought that was weird. Isn't he a Calvinist? Maybe I'm wrong....

 

[civic]

Yeah. I thought that was weird. Isn't he a Calvinist? Maybe I'm wrong....

he quacks, woddles,flies,swims like a duck/calvinist so it appears he is in the calvinist flock.

 

[TomL]

Yeah. I thought that was weird. Isn't he a Calvinist? Maybe I'm wrong....

Yes he is the Calvinist. Seeing however he has no answer for the fact multiple calvinist contradict his view he has to pretend like he is not in the Calvinist camp and such are really his God

 

[TomL]

fallacy alert- @TomL like myself are not calvinists.

hope this helps !!!

Desperate people say desperate things

 

[TomL]

continued from post #2,244

Digging further in your post, @TomL, you prophesy falsely about the Living God and Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 4:1) based on your God Calvin, whose word you take up as your own word not just once but you treasure your God Calvin's word so much that you take up your God Calvin's word twice in your post after you repeated your God Calvin's word again and again and again in a plurality of posts, with "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the word of Calvinist TomL) against the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) which arrives at your adulteration “This is the NOT work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent[/b]” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Lol you really are desperate

You follow a theology named after the man. You reject scripture instead follow his ideas and you want to imagine he is not your God

Pathetic

In any case you post nothing to rebut the fact multiple Calvinists, your peers, reject your claim

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.
Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Tetament commentary D.A. Carson

John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —

The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary

---

[1] D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.

multiple noted Calvinists/calvinist commentary rebut your claim

and you are not able to rebut them

The Apostles state not that a man controls the belief of the man in order to cause the man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent in any of the Holy Scripture that you cited or quoted, so your prophecy is false; moreover, all your gods, such as your God Calvin, certainly fail to overturn the Word of God!

You are simply in denial as scripture shows

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven

Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”

unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Mat 11:21-24 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?


John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith

For example, in these passages, you conjure up a man-centered belief structure based on the word of man instead of the Word of God, just like you do with John 6:28-29, instead of God's messenger's Righteous response that saving belief be in the hearer:

Sorry that was the word of God above. You have yet to post a verse which actually states what you believe

and you never addressed this either

Jesus told them they must work

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

2nd Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

You ignored the fact jesus tolsd them to work- do something

You ignore the fact according to context the works of God are what god requires from man in verse 28

You ignore the fact jesus tell them they must believe (active voice - something they must do not something being done to them

You ignore the fact the jewe clearly understood that there was something they had to do

You ignore the fact jesus did not correct them but repeated the need for them to believe

Your opinion is not based on scripture for you ignore scripture to posit your theology

​

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.​

​

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

​

Both believe and repent are works of God in man, and God's messengers say absolutely nothing different than belief is a work of God.

Sorry you ignore the fact they speak of what man must do not what God is doing for them

Once again you ignore scripture to posit your theology

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us delve deeper into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

​

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).​

​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

What were you not able to understand

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

Hello

Who is to repent?


Man repents God cannot repent for him

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

Um that does not say God repented for them

They repented. It was God's word or discipline which led them to repentance but they actually repented

as here

Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

God sent Jonas

That was the extent of what God did according to the context

They repented at the preaching of Jonas

God did not infuse prentance into them

and he did not repent for them

He sent a word of repentance through the prophet and they repented.

 

[Kermos]

Amen, praise the Lord, the AUTHOR and perfecter of our faith.

I'm amazed at how many times these free-willers elevate the question above the answer. But it makes sense, since they worship man above Jesus, so they are inclined to insist man's question must determine what the answer given by Jesus means.

In God glorifying revelation, Lord Jesus had you describe the free-willian philosophy which depends on man controlling Jesus instead of King Jesus controlling man. That is an accurate assessment.

Lord Jesus is the Master Orator, and no one commands language as Master Jesus. The Word of God is orderly and pure.

The free-willian philosophers inject confusion directly into the Word of God. They accomplish their dastardly deed in their self-will. They may call it free-will, but that is not the Biblical term. Truly, it is called self-will Biblicallly as we shall see in a moment.

Two kinds of will of man exist without any other, and these two kinds of man's will are separated in complete independence of each other.

1. a man's will is harmonized with God's will by the power of God:
   
   
   it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure
   (Philippians 2:13).
   ​
2. a man's will is independent from God's will in the flesh:
   
   
   the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties
   (2 Peter 2:9-10).
   ​

Ask a free-willian for a definition of free-will, and inevitably they promulgate "freewill means my will is free from outside influence, even from God", so the free-willian describes independent governance of himself or herself - to be more precise, self-will.

Free-willians say "I chose to believe in Jesus by my own free-will, so God must give salvation to me without exception", and the free-willians tremble not as they daringly revile His Royal Majesty, King Jesus of the Kingdom of God who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29).

The unrighteous free-willians despise the authority of God who says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3) because they indulge their own flesh in accordance with their deluded seeing King Jesus of the Kingdom of God before they are born of God.

The truly self-willed free-willians do not receive the clearly precise pure Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation), yet those self-willed free-willians proceed from bad to worse in their claim to approach HOLY KING JESUS - "then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by My Name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’—only to go on doing all these abominations" (Jeremiah 7:10).

We have seen in this very thread, even in the opening post and littered throughout, how free-willian hearts steal God's glory, murder by preaching deceptive words, adulterate the Word of God, make false statements against God, and go after their gods of Arndt and Calvin and Alford with great zeal. The free-willians "are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them" (John 10:8), and we find something about the free-willian "robbers" here:

Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail. Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known, and then come and stand before Me in this house, which is called by My Name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’ - only to go on doing all these abominations? Has this house, which is called by My Name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I Myself have seen it, declares YHWH
(Jeremiah 7:9-11).
​

Notice that @TomL wrote "But all one need do to see your errolr is consifer" as recorded in post #2,244, and TomL uses his "see" to indicate "perceive" in a manner not entirely unlike Jesus uses His "see" to indicate "perceive" in the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). We can see two results of TomL's thoughts expressed about the word "see":

• hypocritical use of the word "see" because TomL can use the word "see" to mean "perceive", yet Tom excludes Jesus from using the word "see" to mean "perceive". Lord Jesus railed against the hypocrites "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people" (Matthew 23:13).
• the deceptive words that TomL puts his trust to no avail is TomL's god Arndt's word "5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3" (proof post #2,216) in which the free-willian heart does commit adultery by substituting "see" concept into exclusively the narrower "experience" concept in order for free-willians to think that they can perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God before being born of God in the free-willian's very defiance of King Jesus' sayings "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6),

Did you see the free-willians @Johann @civic @praise_yeshua and @TomL swarm in with their self-centered pride posts to defend their self-willed pride in their own strength "I chose to believe in Jesus unto salvation" in response to post #2,234? @civic's self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) pride manifested double because of civic's second response post.

Where is the humility, as in "Blessed are the humble, for they shall inherit the earth" (Matthew 5:5) and "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:3)?

Contrast Christian humility against the pride of the world, "it is better to be humble in spirit with the lowly than to divide the spoil with the proud" (Proverbs 16:19).

God's Sovereignty is really very humbling. Man's separation from God is an insurmountable obstacle for man to negotiate without the intervention of God's Strong Right Arm. That the Creator of the universe reaches into the world to rescue and redeem and deliver belief into man's heart and convert the ones that despise and hate Him, this is humbling that we Christians receive this blessed gift of being saved from the wrath of God - Lord Jesus Christ does it all, and we, formerly dead in sin, are the blessed recipients. To God to be the glory now and forever more - the glory that has always been God's!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Did you see the free-willians @Johann @civic @praise_yeshua and @TomL swarm in with their self-centered pride posts to defend their self-willed pride in their own strength "I chose to believe in Jesus unto salvation" in response to post #2,234? @civic's self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) pride manifested double because of civic's second response post.

If you're going to tag me in response, be man enough to actually respond to me when I try to have a dialogue with you. Does that sound "fair" and ethical to you?

There is no power in a choice. Only Jesus can save. The "seed" of God in the new birth comes from God alone. God approves saving faith.

The only power that exists in Salvation comes from God alone. Nothing I've said here creates any sense of merit in Salvation for the "free willians".

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Do mind actually trying to establish why what I've said above isn't true.

 

[Johann]

In God glorifying revelation, Lord Jesus had you describe the free-willian philosophy which depends on man controlling Jesus instead of King Jesus controlling man. That is an accurate assessment.

Lord Jesus is the Master Orator, and no one commands language as Master Jesus. The Word of God is orderly and pure.

The free-willian philosophers inject confusion directly into the Word of God. They accomplish their dastardly deed in their self-will. They may call it free-will, but that is not the Biblical term. Truly, it is called self-will Biblicallly as we shall see in a moment.

Two kinds of will of man exist without any other, and these two kinds of man's will are separated in complete independence of each other.

1. a man's will is harmonized with God's will by the power of God:
   
   
   it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure
   (Philippians 2:13).​
2. a man's will is independent from God's will in the flesh:
   
   
   the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties
   (2 Peter 2:9-10).​

Ask a free-willian for a definition of free-will, and inevitably they promulgate "freewill means my will is free from outside influence, even from God", so the free-willian describes independent governance of himself or herself - to be more precise, self-will.

Free-willians say "I chose to believe in Jesus by my own free-will, so God must give salvation to me without exception", and the free-willians tremble not as they daringly revile His Royal Majesty, King Jesus of the Kingdom of God who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29).

The unrighteous free-willians despise the authority of God who says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3) because they indulge their own flesh in accordance with their deluded seeing King Jesus of the Kingdom of God before they are born of God.

The truly self-willed free-willians do not receive the clearly precise pure Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation), yet those self-willed free-willians proceed from bad to worse in their claim to approach HOLY KING JESUS - "then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by My Name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’—only to go on doing all these abominations" (Jeremiah 7:10).

We have seen in this very thread, even in the opening post and littered throughout, how free-willian hearts steal God's glory, murder by preaching deceptive words, adulterate the Word of God, make false statements against God, and go after their gods of Arndt and Calvin and Alford with great zeal. The free-willians "are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them" (John 10:8), and we find something about the free-willian "robbers" here:

​

Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail. Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known, and then come and stand before Me in this house, which is called by My Name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’ - only to go on doing all these abominations? Has this house, which is called by My Name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I Myself have seen it, declares YHWH​

(Jeremiah 7:9-11).​

​

Notice that @TomL wrote "But all one need do to see your errolr is consifer" as recorded in post #2,244, and TomL uses his "see" to indicate "perceive" in a manner not entirely unlike Jesus uses His "see" to indicate "perceive" in the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). We can see two results of TomL's thoughts expressed about the word "see":

• hypocritical use of the word "see" because TomL can use the word "see" to mean "perceive", yet Tom excludes Jesus from using the word "see" to mean "perceive". Lord Jesus railed against the hypocrites "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people" (Matthew 23:13).
• the deceptive words that TomL puts his trust to no avail is TomL's god Arndt's word "5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3" (proof post #2,216) in which the free-willian heart does commit adultery by substituting "see" concept into exclusively the narrower "experience" concept in order for free-willians to think that they can perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God before being born of God in the free-willian's very defiance of King Jesus' sayings "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6),

Did you see the free-willians @Johann @civic @praise_yeshua and @TomL swarm in with their self-centered pride posts to defend their self-willed pride in their own strength "I chose to believe in Jesus unto salvation" in response to post #2,234? @civic's self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) pride manifested double because of civic's second response post.

Where is the humility, as in "Blessed are the humble, for they shall inherit the earth" (Matthew 5:5) and "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:3)?

Contrast Christian humility against the pride of the world, "it is better to be humble in spirit with the lowly than to divide the spoil with the proud" (Proverbs 16:19).

God's Sovereignty is really very humbling. Man's separation from God is an insurmountable obstacle for man to negotiate without the intervention of God's Strong Right Arm. That the Creator of the universe reaches into the world to rescue and redeem and deliver belief into man's heart and convert the ones that despise and hate Him, this is humbling that we Christians receive this blessed gift of being saved from the wrath of God - Lord Jesus Christ does it all, and we, formerly dead in sin, are the blessed recipients. To God to be the glory now and forever more - the glory that has always been God's!

Hey @Kermos I am actually in agreement with most of your posts and as Christians our "boule and thelema" should NOT act independently or apart from God. Matter of fact, I am learning a lot from you so just relax and don't use my name with the others as they are in need of being illuminated and led by the Spirit as I am learning daily-not claiming to know it all.

Heb_10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb_10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the

A clear example of Jesus NOT doing His own will independently or apart from His Father.

Just answer me this--

Do you adhere to the doctrines of Calvin or Church fathers?

Shalom.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Man repents God cannot repent for him

One will repent after Christ bestows upon them the Gift of Repentance when He saves them Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Thats what a Exalted Saviour does, gives and or causes repentance in Salvation. The word for give didomi means:

διδόναι τινὶ μετάνοιαν, to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18
Thats a Covenant Blessing Ezk 36:27
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

When the Saviour regenerates someone, it causes them to repent !

 

[Johann]

@TomL



One will repent after Christ bestows upon them the Gift of Repentance when He saves them Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Thats what a Exalted Saviour does, gives and or causes repentance in Salvation. The word for give didomi means:

διδόναι τινὶ μετάνοιαν, to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18
Thats a Covenant Blessing Ezk 36:27
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

When the Saviour regenerates someone, it causes them to repent !

So what precedes what-or is it one momentous ACT of regeneration? Not being facetious here.

--for to give repentance to Israel; to the Israel whom God has chosen for himself, and Christ has redeemed by his blood, and whom the Spirit calls by his graee: these being sinners, as well as others, stand in need of repentance; and whereas this is not in any man's power, but is the free gift of God's grace; for though he should give men time and space to repent, and afford them the means of it, yet if he does not give them grace to repent, they never will, such is the hardness of man's heart; Christ is appointed to give this grace to the chosen ones, which he does by sending his Spirit to convince of sin, and to take away the stony heart, and give an heart of flesh:
Calvin

 

[civic]

In God glorifying revelation, Lord Jesus had you describe the free-willian philosophy which depends on man controlling Jesus instead of King Jesus controlling man. That is an accurate assessment.

Lord Jesus is the Master Orator, and no one commands language as Master Jesus. The Word of God is orderly and pure.

The free-willian philosophers inject confusion directly into the Word of God. They accomplish their dastardly deed in their self-will. They may call it free-will, but that is not the Biblical term. Truly, it is called self-will Biblicallly as we shall see in a moment.

Two kinds of will of man exist without any other, and these two kinds of man's will are separated in complete independence of each other.

1. a man's will is harmonized with God's will by the power of God:
   
   
   it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure
   (Philippians 2:13).​
2. a man's will is independent from God's will in the flesh:
   
   
   the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties
   (2 Peter 2:9-10).​

Ask a free-willian for a definition of free-will, and inevitably they promulgate "freewill means my will is free from outside influence, even from God", so the free-willian describes independent governance of himself or herself - to be more precise, self-will.

Free-willians say "I chose to believe in Jesus by my own free-will, so God must give salvation to me without exception", and the free-willians tremble not as they daringly revile His Royal Majesty, King Jesus of the Kingdom of God who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God, John 6:29).

The unrighteous free-willians despise the authority of God who says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3) because they indulge their own flesh in accordance with their deluded seeing King Jesus of the Kingdom of God before they are born of God.

The truly self-willed free-willians do not receive the clearly precise pure Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation), yet those self-willed free-willians proceed from bad to worse in their claim to approach HOLY KING JESUS - "then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by My Name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’—only to go on doing all these abominations" (Jeremiah 7:10).

We have seen in this very thread, even in the opening post and littered throughout, how free-willian hearts steal God's glory, murder by preaching deceptive words, adulterate the Word of God, make false statements against God, and go after their gods of Arndt and Calvin and Alford with great zeal. The free-willians "are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them" (John 10:8), and we find something about the free-willian "robbers" here:

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Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail. Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known, and then come and stand before Me in this house, which is called by My Name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’ - only to go on doing all these abominations? Has this house, which is called by My Name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I Myself have seen it, declares YHWH​

(Jeremiah 7:9-11).​

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Notice that @TomL wrote "But all one need do to see your errolr is consifer" as recorded in post #2,244, and TomL uses his "see" to indicate "perceive" in a manner not entirely unlike Jesus uses His "see" to indicate "perceive" in the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). We can see two results of TomL's thoughts expressed about the word "see":

• hypocritical use of the word "see" because TomL can use the word "see" to mean "perceive", yet Tom excludes Jesus from using the word "see" to mean "perceive". Lord Jesus railed against the hypocrites "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people" (Matthew 23:13).
• the deceptive words that TomL puts his trust to no avail is TomL's god Arndt's word "5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3" (proof post #2,216) in which the free-willian heart does commit adultery by substituting "see" concept into exclusively the narrower "experience" concept in order for free-willians to think that they can perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God before being born of God in the free-willian's very defiance of King Jesus' sayings "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6),

Did you see the free-willians @Johann @civic @praise_yeshua and @TomL swarm in with their self-centered pride posts to defend their self-willed pride in their own strength "I chose to believe in Jesus unto salvation" in response to post #2,234? @civic's self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) pride manifested double because of civic's second response post.

Where is the humility, as in "Blessed are the humble, for they shall inherit the earth" (Matthew 5:5) and "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:3)?

Contrast Christian humility against the pride of the world, "it is better to be humble in spirit with the lowly than to divide the spoil with the proud" (Proverbs 16:19).

God's Sovereignty is really very humbling. Man's separation from God is an insurmountable obstacle for man to negotiate without the intervention of God's Strong Right Arm. That the Creator of the universe reaches into the world to rescue and redeem and deliver belief into man's heart and convert the ones that despise and hate Him, this is humbling that we Christians receive this blessed gift of being saved from the wrath of God - Lord Jesus Christ does it all, and we, formerly dead in sin, are the blessed recipients. To God to be the glory now and forever more - the glory that has always been God's!

Says the fatalist

 

[brightfame52]

@Johann

So what precedes what-or is it one momentous ACT of regeneration? Not being facetious here.

One dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1-5


And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

 

[TomL]

@TomL



One will repent after Christ bestows upon them the Gift of Repentance when He saves them Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Thats what a Exalted Saviour does, gives and or causes repentance in Salvation. The word for give didomi means:

διδόναι τινὶ μετάνοιαν, to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18
Thats a Covenant Blessing Ezk 36:27
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

When the Saviour regenerates someone, it causes them to repent !

Sorry God grants repentance by sending a message of repentance not by unilaterally infusing it

Matthew 12:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

and faith and repentance precede regeneration

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

 

[TomL]

So what precedes what-or is it one momentous ACT of regeneration? Not being facetious here.

--for to give repentance to Israel; to the Israel whom God has chosen for himself, and Christ has redeemed by his blood, and whom the Spirit calls by his graee: these being sinners, as well as others, stand in need of repentance; and whereas this is not in any man's power, but is the free gift of God's grace; for though he should give men time and space to repent, and afford them the means of it, yet if he does not give them grace to repent, they never will, such is the hardness of man's heart; Christ is appointed to give this grace to the chosen ones, which he does by sending his Spirit to convince of sin, and to take away the stony heart, and give an heart of flesh:
Calvin

Faith and repentance precede regeneration which is salvation and life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.