All Claims of The Son's Deity

[amazing grace]

And the Lord one must confess to be saved as per Joel 2:32 is YHWH. Paul says Jesus is YHWH of Joel 2:32 that must be confessed to be saved.

Romans 10:9,10,13

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

In this context Jesus is Lord. Nothing else needs to be said . . . thanks.

 

[amazing grace]

Uh. Preexistence is a literal concept. Jesus said "before Abraham was, I am." Gal 3:16 turns out to be literal and is proven that way with Gal 3:19-20. There are group representations that are not identified with specific names such as the nations being blessed through Abraham's seed. So you have a limited concept correct. But you are using the group representations to deny the divinity of Christ. You turn the testimony of scripture upside down.

Jesus was before Abraham - he was greater than Abraham and he was in the foreknowledge of God before Abraham but he was not literally before Abraham.
Did I say that Galatians 3:16 was not literal or that it wasn't fulfilled? I'll stand by what I read . . . . thanks.

What was the promise in Galatians 3?
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith . . . For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Therefore, the promise is that believers, including Gentiles, can become heirs to God's inheritance through faith in Jesus Christ, who is also a recipient of the promise. . . we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. [Rom. 8:17]

uh. Maybe you have an alternative meaning for theos here. Maybe you mean it to be chance. You have to deny that Jesus is the only Son of God (John 3:16). Maybe you just mean he is the only son of chance or that "only son" means just a man. Although, you cannot explain God incarnate, that does not mean your denials of it make sense.
You are right that being the Son of God does not make him God. He is pre-existing as God such that he is not made into anything but flesh without giving up being God.
If I am twisting your words, it is because they already are twisted.

No, I don't deny that Jesus is the only Son of God ----- still doesn't make him God.

No God did not come down to earth - where is the scriptural reference?

Why did God keep it a secret? Why would God say he gave his only Son if he didn't actually give his only son but gave himself?
DID GOD LIE TO US?

You tell me how you believe 'the only Son of God' means God.

I am not quite expecting to change your view. You are in too great of denial. God still can correct your thinking despite the hole you have dug.

You're right - I won't.

 

[civic]

Romans 10:9,10,13

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

In this context Jesus is Lord. Nothing else needs to be said . . . thanks.

The context from Paul is YHWH in Joel 2:32.

 

[Victoria]

I am sorry that you cannot comprehend what I am saying.

Correct! Jesus Christ alone created man in His own image, & likeness.
It's evident all around us just by looking at any human

I have an uphill battle from Romans 5 and John 3:16? . . . don't think so.

The apostles believed

Well, thank God that I have not cursed Jesus and I am able to say Jesus is Lord by the spirit of God dwelling in me. Amen!

Atheists don't believe Jesus is God either. Do you believe they have the Spirit of God dwelling in them too?

 

[Capbook]

You seem to be affirming that Jesus and the apostles were closer along the lines of Arianism. It isn't that Jesus is to be disobeyed just because Jesus and everyone else never did what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19. The point is that what Jesus said doesn't mean what you say it does.

Jesus said, "all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him, do that mean excluding the Arians to follow Matthew 28:19??

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
Mat 28:19 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

So no one in practice baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Scripture. Are you saying everyone in the Bible was baptized the wrong way?

Is there a baptism by the Spirit in the Bible?
Is there a baptism in Jesus name? As Jesus and the Father are one.
Just because the ultimate authority consolidated it in one text, why Arians makes it wrong?

 

[Capbook]

But Jesus' name is never said to be YHWH anywhere in the Bible. Actually, Scripture proves Jesus is not YHWH.

Do you believe what Jesus said in John 5:37? "Neither heard the voice of the Father anytime."
If yes, then whose voice is in Deut 4:6?

Joh 5:37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
Isa 42:8 “I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to idols.

The below verses clearly demonstrate Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, isn't the I AM, isn't YHWH, etc. Means Jesus isn't God.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

Exodus 3
14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

There's a lot to clean up here. Why do you think someone who received their anointing as messiah would be God? Acts 2:36 says Jesus' being Lord and Messiah are things that were made.

Again, if you believe what Jesus said in John 5:37, whose voice was that in Exodus 3:14?
Jesus said it in John 8:58. , in reference to Ex 3:14.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus was before Abraham - he was greater than Abraham and he was in the foreknowledge of God before Abraham but he was not literally before Abraham.
Did I say that Galatians 3:16 was not literal or that it wasn't fulfilled? I'll stand by what I read . . . . thanks.

You are calling Jesus and Paul liars. If Jesus did not receive the promise directly per Galatians 3:16, then Paul is shown a liar. Every argument you share about the NT makes everyone wrong except you.
Like should have been obvious before, Jesus could have said Abraham prophesied of Jesus. Instead Jesus states more accurately that he exists before Abraham. You deceive yourself and others with this trickery.

No, I don't deny that Jesus is the only Son of God ----- still doesn't make him God.

Jesus being God is what makes Jesus God. That should be simple enough for you to understand. There is no other meaning of the designation "Son of God" in the context of Jesus.

No God did not come down to earth - where is the scriptural reference?

Good you ask that. You obviously miss key passages
John 3:12-13 (ESV):

12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 3:31-32 (ESV):

31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony.

Read it rather than deny it.

Why did God keep it a secret? Why would God say he gave his only Son if he didn't actually give his only son but gave himself?
DID GOD LIE TO US?

Wow. When you twist the meaning, you really confuse yourself. It is impossible in the unitarian blindness. That is why you need to recognize the Triune God. Just because you do not understand the way the Triune God has interacted here does not mean you should deny scripture. You seem to prefer that God has lied, but that is not a good argument for unitarianism.

You tell me how you believe 'the only Son of God' means God.

We covered that this does not mean son of chance. It means the very nature of Jesus is divine. It is hard to explain to someone John 1 when that person denies John 1.

You're right - I won't.

That is too bad. But I do not know the extent of God's grace as to covering such denial of the Son.

 

[mikesw]

The context from Paul is YHWH in Joel 2:32.

amazingly simple point that amazing grace cannot admit

 

[Peterlag]

Funny how you start with Jesus as the Son of God and then take that away from him to make him a mere man so he no longer is the only Son of God.

That is more or less correct.

It seems you do not comprehend the discussion. That can happen, especially when someone does not know the nature of Christ. You accidentally (or happily?) twist the words. The passage speak of salvation happening to those who call on the name of Yahweh (the Lord, Jesus) in this context. It is common for unitarians to misconstrue the discussion and scripture. It is a new doctrine of denial of the divinity of Christ so indeed the loose ends are not tied up and expectedly never will be.

There are no words in the Bible that refers Jesus to a mere man. And that means I would never use them that you say I did. Your deception is as good as the dark force.

 

[amazing grace]

The context from Paul is YHWH in Joel 2:32.

Paul's context contains a partial quote from Joel 2:32 . . . "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." ---- the whole verse is not quoted in Romans 10 ---- one sentence does not make up a context. The context is what surrounds a particular word or statement. I know y'all like to pull out your one sentence arguments but they fail.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...CM49oAUpphwbgb-MU1vlxWRtvbEa9lYzxdLjig&csui=3
Very simply put - OT believers called upon Yahweh and NT believers call upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[amazing grace]

Correct! Jesus Christ alone created man in His own image, & likeness.
It's evident all around us just by looking at any human

The apostles believed

Atheists don't believe Jesus is God either. Do you believe they have the Spirit of God dwelling in them too?

Correct, you do not understand . . . Jesus had nothing to do with the Genesis creation.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The apostles believed what??? That God was the Father and Jesus was the Son of God, the Lord's Messiah? YEP.

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. [Matt. 16:15-17]

Atheist don't believe in God --- ANY God. No. The thing is NO scripture says one must believe Jesus is God in order to be saved, i.e. born again, aka born of the Spirit.

 

[civic]

amazingly simple point that amazing grace cannot admit

yes the unitarian refuses to see Deity of Christ. If they admit it they must become a Binitarian or Trinitarian.

 

[amazing grace]

You are calling Jesus and Paul liars. If Jesus did not receive the promise directly per Galatians 3:16, then Paul is shown a liar. Every argument you share about the NT makes everyone wrong except you.
Like should have been obvious before, Jesus could have said Abraham prophesied of Jesus. Instead Jesus states more accurately that he exists before Abraham. You deceive yourself and others with this trickery.

I am not endeavoring to 'make everyone wrong except me'. People need to read what is written with a little bit of comprehension.

Jesus being God is what makes Jesus God. That should be simple enough for you to understand. There is no other meaning of the designation "Son of God" in the context of Jesus.

Whatever that means!!!

Good you ask that. You obviously miss key passages
John 3:12-13 (ESV):

John 3:31-32 (ESV):

Read it rather than deny it.

Read them plenty of times - even to the point of understanding. Your understanding is - since God is in heaven, God comes from above that God came to earth --- which is the same concept the Romans had in their mythology - gods coming to earth.
My understanding is that being from heaven, being from above, is equivalent to sent by God, came from God, etc. Jesus came from heaven - God was his source. Jesus was from above - God was his source. In the same sense as 'Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.' [James 1:17] God is the source of every good and perfect gift.

God GAVE his Son, God SENT his Son, his CAME from ABOVE, CAME from God by a miraculous conception in the womb of Mary.

Wow. When you twist the meaning, you really confuse yourself. It is impossible in the unitarian blindness. That is why you need to recognize the Triune God. Just because you do not understand the way the Triune God has interacted here does not mean you should deny scripture. You seem to prefer that God has lied, but that is not a good argument for unitarianism.

I asked you several questions ---- Why did God keep it a secret? Why would God say he gave his only Son if he didn't actually give his only son but gave himself? DID GOD LIE TO US? ---- but it seems you don't have the ability to answer and so resort to accusations of denial of scripture and preferring that God has lied --- which I did not nor have I done.

We covered that this does not mean son of chance. It means the very nature of Jesus is divine. It is hard to explain to someone John 1 when that person denies John 1.

Again, your accusations are tiring . . . I never denied John 1. I just understand it.

That is too bad. But I do not know the extent of God's grace as to covering such denial of the Son.

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.

I haven't denied that Jesus is the Christ ---- I have confessed the Son. I'm pretty well covered.

 

[civic]

Paul's context contains a partial quote from Joel 2:32 . . . "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." ---- the whole verse is not quoted in Romans 10 ---- one sentence does not make up a context. The context is what surrounds a particular word or statement. I know y'all like to pull out your one sentence arguments but they fail.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAACGA_enUS1140US1140&cs=0&sca_esv=a06aa841042c655b&sxsrf=AE3TifOu5s__CXeTqvYucMVrcs7cxiBjIA:1760957720607&q=Context+is+the+"what+surrounds"&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOzfLazrKQAxXrMtAFHZ-vOLEQxccNegQIGRAD&mstk=AUtExfC6oGi2vWbTv8QhXKIqbkfgtDA5CK-NYAsF30hpjAy19T397nX1IyhYEwftY5X2aWsErSUeefo-QQJ3PgHjeDDALIv4UWelIPmf04ZOGx8ZBpZ301L_1iTqx210mHLNa9Mkuw1QH_J3YDBkhR9VIgqUY_IKnLqFzSmatQrWNiaIo9qa0ICsN1WRBbnEr_Dr3jtZ65CbKOBDe0naFQpBZU_KQaijkKkjVe-bj7Nug6WsQzJeUKH-a9gfwqNwNAq9ierivX9SCM49oAUpphwbgb-MU1vlxWRtvbEa9lYzxdLjig&csui=3
Very simply put - OT believers called upon Yahweh and NT believers call upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

Where is this verse in Romans 10:13 from in the O.T. ? Its a direct quote from Paul.

13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”