All Claims of The Son's Deity

[amazing grace]

It is good you ask the question. Yes. You are confused since you do not understand scripture. Why do you create a god in man's image? The scripture testifies that Jesus is Yahweh. It is just whether you accept it even though it is not your logic.

So I guess the answer to my question >>>> Do you not hear how illogical that sounds? ---- 'the Son of God is still Yahweh along with his Father' ---- You have the Son as Almighty God along with the Son's Father who is also God is >>>> 'whether I accept it even though it is not MY logic' . . . IMO - not really an answer but about what I expected.

You believe scripture testifies that Jesus is Yahweh so there you go - Why do you create a god in man's image?
I do not believe the scripture testifies that Jesus Christ is Yahweh therefore, I am not the one who created a god in man's image.

That is so neglectful of prophecy. You do not understand that Joel 2:32 is fulfilled in Christ Jesus,Yahweh. So you either are confused or you reject God's prophecy.

I see where Joel 2:32 is referencing Yahweh in whom the OT believers called on.
Romans 10:13 referencing, in keeping with context, the Lord Jesus Christ in whom NT believers called on ---- Paul now attributes to Jesus who is the Lord who we are to confess and believe that God raised him from the dead (Rom. 10:9,10) . . . To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours: . . .

Okay. So you recognize the virgin birth of the Divine Son in Gen 3:15 but then deny it. You recognize some prophecy but you reject others. That is what the Pharisees did too.

I recognize the miraculous conception of the offspring of the woman in Gen. 3:15.

there you go again. You deny anthropomorphic viewing of God and then share a half-truth that God is not a man as if that denies that God the Son can incarnate. Then you repeat the confusion over and over and over again as if the repetition makes your confusion into the truth. You might as well deny the Word of God as being God and distinct also in Gen 15:1-5 and similar situations throughout scripture. There is too much denial or neglect in the unitarian view.

Oh yea, the distinct person called the 'word of the Lord' . . . the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, all that means is that Yahweh spoke to Abram a vision . . . “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.” NOT A DISTINCT PERSON . . .

Actually, I see it the other way around . . . there is more denial in the Trinitarian view.

 

[Runningman]

The point is there's no verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. That's the point and that's the subject that is being debated. I said there's no verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. And then someone said there was and that it was in Joel and Romans. Then I said there's nothing in Joel or Romans that says that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.

cc: @Runningman

I agree. On the other hand, knowing the Father is the only true God is required. Having many persons who are god is called idolatry according to the Bible. Salvation also requires believing God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead (Romans 10:9,10) and believing Him who sent Jesus. Trinitarians flirt with idolatry because they say a trinity raised Jesus and that a trinity sent Jesus and that a trinity is God.

John 5
24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

 

[mikesw]

So I guess the answer to my question >>>> Do you not hear how illogical that sounds? ---- 'the Son of God is still Yahweh along with his Father' ---- You have the Son as Almighty God along with the Son's Father who is also God is >>>> 'whether I accept it even though it is not MY logic' . . . IMO - not really an answer but about what I expected.

Again you pretend that God is limited to what you perceive about him. You either have to suggest that Jesus is a separate god or is of the same God as the Father, or you just reject scripture.
I'm sorry if you expected the truth to be shared by me even though you do not accept the truth. You have a pre-existent Jesus who does not have pre-existence. You have a Jesus that John identifies as God but you have a Jesus that is not God.

You believe scripture testifies that Jesus is Yahweh so there you go - Why do you create a god in man's image?

Wow. You give me credit where none is possible. I did not create Jesus. God sent the Son incarnate. I'm flattered that you think I have so much power but I prefer the Son that God sent.

I do not believe the scripture testifies that Jesus Christ is Yahweh therefore, I am not the one who created a god in man's image.

You pushed God only into being a man among us. You do therefore diminish who Jesus is and view him as mere man.

I see where Joel 2:32 is referencing Yahweh in whom the OT believers called on.

That was Jesus in Acts 2. Remember how the prophecy is about Jesus.

Romans 10:13 referencing, in keeping with context, the Lord Jesus Christ in whom NT believers called on ---- Paul now attributes to Jesus who is the Lord who we are to confess and believe that God raised him from the dead (Rom. 10:9,10) . . . To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours: . . .

Again the prophecy is that God is the one they call upon. You again reject prophecy fulfillment

I recognize the miraculous conception of the offspring of the woman in Gen. 3:15.

Oh yea, the distinct person called the 'word of the Lord' . . . the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, all that means is that Yahweh spoke to Abram a vision . . . “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.” NOT A DISTINCT PERSON . . .

Actually, I see it the other way around . . . there is more denial in the Trinitarian view.

You miss the unusual aspect shown in Gen 15:1-5 which reflects your superficial approach to it.

 

[mikesw]

The Apostle Peter said...

Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. (Matthew 16:16)

And Jesus said you got that right. (Matthew 16:17)

Funny how you start with Jesus as the Son of God and then take that away from him to make him a mere man so he no longer is the only Son of God.

I think what it all comes down to is that Christians believe (like the Apostle Peter) that Jesus is the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.

That is more or less correct.

The Trinitarians believe... that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord God, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Himself from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It seems you do not comprehend the discussion. That can happen, especially when someone does not know the nature of Christ. You accidentally (or happily?) twist the words. The passage speak of salvation happening to those who call on the name of Yahweh (the Lord, Jesus) in this context. It is common for unitarians to misconstrue the discussion and scripture. It is a new doctrine of denial of the divinity of Christ so indeed the loose ends are not tied up and expectedly never will be.

 

[amazing grace]

Again you pretend that God is limited to what you perceive about him. You either have to suggest that Jesus is a separate god or is of the same God as the Father, or you just reject scripture.

Jesus is the Son of God - God is his God - God is his Father - that is acceptance of scripture.

I'm sorry if you expected the truth to be shared by me even though you do not accept the truth. You have a pre-existent Jesus who does not have pre-existence. You have a Jesus that John identifies as God but you have a Jesus that is not God.

My Jesus preexisted in the mind of God his Father along with the plan put forth in Gen. 3:15.
John does not identify Jesus as God but states that the following was the purpose of his gospel . . . 'but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.' [John 20:31]

Wow. You give me credit where none is possible. I did not create Jesus. God sent the Son incarnate. I'm flattered that you think I have so much power but I prefer the Son that God sent.

You pushed God only into being a man among us. You do therefore diminish who Jesus is and view him as mere man.

I have not pushed God into being the man, Jesus Christ because I do not believe God to be a man; nor do I push the man, Jesus Christ into being God because they are neither. God is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is the only Son of God the Father.

That was Jesus in Acts 2. Remember how the prophecy is about Jesus.
Again the prophecy is that God is the one they call upon. You again reject prophecy fulfillment

You miss the unusual aspect shown in Gen 15:1-5 which reflects your superficial approach to it.

We were addressing Romans 10:13.

There is no unusual aspect of 'the word of the LORD came' in Gen. 15:1-5 - God was speaking to Abram. In each example of 'the word of the LORD came' it is God speaking to that person.
The word of the Lord came to Samuel: “I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following me and has not performed my commandments.” And Samuel was angry, and he cried to the Lord all night. . . . God was speaking to Samuel.
And when David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, “Go and say to David, ‘Thus says the Lord, Three things I offer you. Choose one of them, that I may do it to you.’” . . . God was speaking to the prophet Gad. ETC.

 

[101G]

You either have a Jesus w/ Schizophrenia (delusional), or a Jesus w/ Dissociative Identity Disorder (multiple personalities).
Any true Christian knows that Jesus Christ clearly was not talking to Himself, 101G.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Genesis 1:26-27

only one person made man male and female in the beginning.

"Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."
Genesis 11:7

Notice how God is referring to Himself in a plural sense in Genesis 1:26-27; 11:7?

Genesis 11:5 "And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded." Genesis 11:6 "And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." Genesis 11:7 "Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech." Genesis 11:8 "So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city."

come on V ... Oh my, READ, only the LORD came down, ONE PERSON. as in Genesis 1:26, one person for Genesis 1:27 confirms this. V, V, V, God when speaking in plural is speaking from the end... Listen and learn, Isaiah 46:9 "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me," Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" Declaring the end from the beginning? Oh my, my, my, V are you really understanding God speech? ... all time, past, present, and future are the same to God.

Paul warns we could have another Jesus, another spirit, if we're not careful.

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."
2 Corinthians 11:3-4

101G speak of the same and ONLY "ONE", Jesus who is Lord, and is G243 Allos of himself.

V, 101G cannot believe you don't know this. ... Oh well.

101G.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus is the Son of God - God is his God - God is his Father - that is acceptance of scripture.

Right. But people still deny Jesus's divinity and especially denying that by rejecting true pre-existence

My Jesus preexisted in the mind of God his Father along with the plan put forth in Gen. 3:15.
John does not identify Jesus as God but states that the following was the purpose of his gospel . . . 'but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.' [John 20:31]

That is a perfect way to gloss over true pre-existence of Jesus and reject so many passages. Paul points out the promise to Abraham was also to Jesus in Gal 3:16. It was not only a promise to send Jesus but also was a promise to Jesus to be sent. That does not happen to someone who does not exist.

I have not pushed God into being the man, Jesus Christ because I do not believe God to be a man; nor do I push the man, Jesus Christ into being God because they are neither. God is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is the only Son of God the Father.

No one believes God to be a man. Scripture shows that God became incarnate. It is your confusion that leads you to misconstrue Jesus. Then you go again and show the divinity of Jesus with the recognition of Jesus as the Son of God. Your forgetfulness is from one sentence to another.
It is the example of the multiple persons as all being Yahweh in the OT that is continued with Jesus also being Yahweh. That is not something easily missed.

We were addressing Romans 10:13.

There is no unusual aspect of 'the word of the LORD came' in Gen. 15:1-5 - God was speaking to Abram. In each example of 'the word of the LORD came' it is God speaking to that person.
The word of the Lord came to Samuel: “I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following me and has not performed my commandments.” And Samuel was angry, and he cried to the Lord all night. . . . God was speaking to Samuel.
And when David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, “Go and say to David, ‘Thus says the Lord, Three things I offer you. Choose one of them, that I may do it to you.’” . . . God was speaking to the prophet Gad. ETC.

You are changing to different passages instead of showing how the Word of Yahweh was distinct from Yahweh but was recognized as Yahweh. I would rather work with scripture than with your forgetfulness of such details as in Gen 15:1-5

 

[Runningman]

Jesus is the Son of God - God is his God - God is his Father - that is acceptance of scripture.

My Jesus preexisted in the mind of God his Father along with the plan put forth in Gen. 3:15.
John does not identify Jesus as God but states that the following was the purpose of his gospel . . . 'but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.' [John 20:31]

I have not pushed God into being the man, Jesus Christ because I do not believe God to be a man; nor do I push the man, Jesus Christ into being God because they are neither. God is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is the only Son of God the Father.

We were addressing Romans 10:13.

There is no unusual aspect of 'the word of the LORD came' in Gen. 15:1-5 - God was speaking to Abram. In each example of 'the word of the LORD came' it is God speaking to that person.
The word of the Lord came to Samuel: “I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following me and has not performed my commandments.” And Samuel was angry, and he cried to the Lord all night. . . . God was speaking to Samuel.
And when David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, “Go and say to David, ‘Thus says the Lord, Three things I offer you. Choose one of them, that I may do it to you.’” . . . God was speaking to the prophet Gad. ETC.

Sometimes they forgot that Romans 10:9 is still there which sets the precedent that Jesus isn't God. There is Jesus and God who raised him because since God raised Jesus then Jesus is not the same as God. Probably why there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that says Jesus raised or resurrected himself.