All Claims of The Son's Deity

And the Lord one must confess to be saved as per Joel 2:32 is YHWH. Paul says Jesus is YHWH of Joel 2:32 that must be confessed to be saved.
Romans 10:9,10,13

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

In this context Jesus is Lord. Nothing else needs to be said . . . thanks.
 
Uh. Preexistence is a literal concept. Jesus said "before Abraham was, I am." Gal 3:16 turns out to be literal and is proven that way with Gal 3:19-20. There are group representations that are not identified with specific names such as the nations being blessed through Abraham's seed. So you have a limited concept correct. But you are using the group representations to deny the divinity of Christ. You turn the testimony of scripture upside down.
Jesus was before Abraham - he was greater than Abraham and he was in the foreknowledge of God before Abraham but he was not literally before Abraham.
Did I say that Galatians 3:16 was not literal or that it wasn't fulfilled? I'll stand by what I read . . . . thanks.
What was the promise in Galatians 3?
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith . . . For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Therefore, the promise is that believers, including Gentiles, can become heirs to God's inheritance through faith in Jesus Christ, who is also a recipient of the promise. . . we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. [Rom. 8:17]
uh. Maybe you have an alternative meaning for theos here. Maybe you mean it to be chance. You have to deny that Jesus is the only Son of God (John 3:16). Maybe you just mean he is the only son of chance or that "only son" means just a man. Although, you cannot explain God incarnate, that does not mean your denials of it make sense.
You are right that being the Son of God does not make him God. He is pre-existing as God such that he is not made into anything but flesh without giving up being God.
If I am twisting your words, it is because they already are twisted.
No, I don't deny that Jesus is the only Son of God ----- still doesn't make him God.

No God did not come down to earth - where is the scriptural reference?

Why did God keep it a secret? Why would God say he gave his only Son if he didn't actually give his only son but gave himself?
DID GOD LIE TO US?

You tell me how you believe 'the only Son of God' means God.
I am not quite expecting to change your view. You are in too great of denial. God still can correct your thinking despite the hole you have dug.
You're right - I won't.
 
Romans 10:9,10,13

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

In this context Jesus is Lord. Nothing else needs to be said . . . thanks.
The context from Paul is YHWH in Joel 2:32.
 
I am sorry that you cannot comprehend what I am saying.
Correct! Jesus Christ alone created man in His own image, & likeness.
It's evident all around us just by looking at any human :)

I have an uphill battle from Romans 5 and John 3:16? . . . don't think so.
The apostles believed
Well, thank God that I have not cursed Jesus and I am able to say Jesus is Lord by the spirit of God dwelling in me. Amen!
Atheists don't believe Jesus is God either. Do you believe they have the Spirit of God dwelling in them too?
 
You seem to be affirming that Jesus and the apostles were closer along the lines of Arianism. It isn't that Jesus is to be disobeyed just because Jesus and everyone else never did what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19. The point is that what Jesus said doesn't mean what you say it does.
Jesus said, "all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him, do that mean excluding the Arians to follow Matthew 28:19??

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
Mat 28:19 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

So no one in practice baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Scripture. Are you saying everyone in the Bible was baptized the wrong way?
Is there a baptism by the Spirit in the Bible?
Is there a baptism in Jesus name? As Jesus and the Father are one.
Just because the ultimate authority consolidated it in one text, why Arians makes it wrong?
 
But Jesus' name is never said to be YHWH anywhere in the Bible. Actually, Scripture proves Jesus is not YHWH.
Do you believe what Jesus said in John 5:37? "Neither heard the voice of the Father anytime."
If yes, then whose voice is in Deut 4:6?

Joh 5:37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
Isa 42:8 “
I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to idols.


The below verses clearly demonstrate Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, isn't the I AM, isn't YHWH, etc. Means Jesus isn't God.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

Exodus 3
14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

There's a lot to clean up here. Why do you think someone who received their anointing as messiah would be God? Acts 2:36 says Jesus' being Lord and Messiah are things that were made.
Again, if you believe what Jesus said in John 5:37, whose voice was that in Exodus 3:14?
Jesus said it in John 8:58. , in reference to Ex 3:14.
 
Jesus was before Abraham - he was greater than Abraham and he was in the foreknowledge of God before Abraham but he was not literally before Abraham.
Did I say that Galatians 3:16 was not literal or that it wasn't fulfilled? I'll stand by what I read . . . . thanks.
You are calling Jesus and Paul liars. If Jesus did not receive the promise directly per Galatians 3:16, then Paul is shown a liar. Every argument you share about the NT makes everyone wrong except you.
Like should have been obvious before, Jesus could have said Abraham prophesied of Jesus. Instead Jesus states more accurately that he exists before Abraham. You deceive yourself and others with this trickery.
No, I don't deny that Jesus is the only Son of God ----- still doesn't make him God.
Jesus being God is what makes Jesus God. That should be simple enough for you to understand. There is no other meaning of the designation "Son of God" in the context of Jesus.
No God did not come down to earth - where is the scriptural reference?
Good you ask that. You obviously miss key passages
John 3:12-13 (ESV):
12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
John 3:31-32 (ESV):
31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony.
Read it rather than deny it.
Why did God keep it a secret? Why would God say he gave his only Son if he didn't actually give his only son but gave himself?
DID GOD LIE TO US?
Wow. When you twist the meaning, you really confuse yourself. It is impossible in the unitarian blindness. That is why you need to recognize the Triune God. Just because you do not understand the way the Triune God has interacted here does not mean you should deny scripture. You seem to prefer that God has lied, but that is not a good argument for unitarianism.
You tell me how you believe 'the only Son of God' means God.
We covered that this does not mean son of chance. It means the very nature of Jesus is divine. It is hard to explain to someone John 1 when that person denies John 1.
You're right - I won't.
That is too bad. But I do not know the extent of God's grace as to covering such denial of the Son.
 
Funny how you start with Jesus as the Son of God and then take that away from him to make him a mere man so he no longer is the only Son of God.

That is more or less correct.

It seems you do not comprehend the discussion. That can happen, especially when someone does not know the nature of Christ. You accidentally (or happily?) twist the words. The passage speak of salvation happening to those who call on the name of Yahweh (the Lord, Jesus) in this context. It is common for unitarians to misconstrue the discussion and scripture. It is a new doctrine of denial of the divinity of Christ so indeed the loose ends are not tied up and expectedly never will be.
There are no words in the Bible that refers Jesus to a mere man. And that means I would never use them that you say I did. Your deception is as good as the dark force.
 
The context from Paul is YHWH in Joel 2:32.
Paul's context contains a partial quote from Joel 2:32 . . . "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." ---- the whole verse is not quoted in Romans 10 ---- one sentence does not make up a context. The context is what surrounds a particular word or statement. I know y'all like to pull out your one sentence arguments but they fail.

Very simply put - OT believers called upon Yahweh and NT believers call upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Correct! Jesus Christ alone created man in His own image, & likeness.
It's evident all around us just by looking at any human :)

The apostles believed

Atheists don't believe Jesus is God either. Do you believe they have the Spirit of God dwelling in them too?
Correct, you do not understand . . . Jesus had nothing to do with the Genesis creation.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The apostles believed what??? That God was the Father and Jesus was the Son of God, the Lord's Messiah? YEP.

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. [Matt. 16:15-17]

Atheist don't believe in God --- ANY God. No. The thing is NO scripture says one must believe Jesus is God in order to be saved, i.e. born again, aka born of the Spirit.
 
You are calling Jesus and Paul liars. If Jesus did not receive the promise directly per Galatians 3:16, then Paul is shown a liar. Every argument you share about the NT makes everyone wrong except you.
Like should have been obvious before, Jesus could have said Abraham prophesied of Jesus. Instead Jesus states more accurately that he exists before Abraham. You deceive yourself and others with this trickery.
I am not endeavoring to 'make everyone wrong except me'. People need to read what is written with a little bit of comprehension.
Jesus being God is what makes Jesus God. That should be simple enough for you to understand. There is no other meaning of the designation "Son of God" in the context of Jesus.
Whatever that means!!!
Good you ask that. You obviously miss key passages
John 3:12-13 (ESV):

John 3:31-32 (ESV):

Read it rather than deny it.
Read them plenty of times - even to the point of understanding. Your understanding is - since God is in heaven, God comes from above that God came to earth --- which is the same concept the Romans had in their mythology - gods coming to earth.
My understanding is that being from heaven, being from above, is equivalent to sent by God, came from God, etc. Jesus came from heaven - God was his source. Jesus was from above - God was his source. In the same sense as 'Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.' [James 1:17] God is the source of every good and perfect gift.

God GAVE his Son, God SENT his Son, his CAME from ABOVE, CAME from God by a miraculous conception in the womb of Mary.
Wow. When you twist the meaning, you really confuse yourself. It is impossible in the unitarian blindness. That is why you need to recognize the Triune God. Just because you do not understand the way the Triune God has interacted here does not mean you should deny scripture. You seem to prefer that God has lied, but that is not a good argument for unitarianism.
I asked you several questions ---- Why did God keep it a secret? Why would God say he gave his only Son if he didn't actually give his only son but gave himself? DID GOD LIE TO US? ---- but it seems you don't have the ability to answer and so resort to accusations of denial of scripture and preferring that God has lied --- which I did not nor have I done.
We covered that this does not mean son of chance. It means the very nature of Jesus is divine. It is hard to explain to someone John 1 when that person denies John 1.
Again, your accusations are tiring . . . I never denied John 1. I just understand it.
That is too bad. But I do not know the extent of God's grace as to covering such denial of the Son.
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.


I haven't denied that Jesus is the Christ ---- I have confessed the Son. I'm pretty well covered. ;)
 
Paul's context contains a partial quote from Joel 2:32 . . . "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." ---- the whole verse is not quoted in Romans 10 ---- one sentence does not make up a context. The context is what surrounds a particular word or statement. I know y'all like to pull out your one sentence arguments but they fail.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAACGA_enUS1140US1140&cs=0&sca_esv=a06aa841042c655b&sxsrf=AE3TifOu5s__CXeTqvYucMVrcs7cxiBjIA:1760957720607&q=Context+is+the+"what+surrounds"&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOzfLazrKQAxXrMtAFHZ-vOLEQxccNegQIGRAD&mstk=AUtExfC6oGi2vWbTv8QhXKIqbkfgtDA5CK-NYAsF30hpjAy19T397nX1IyhYEwftY5X2aWsErSUeefo-QQJ3PgHjeDDALIv4UWelIPmf04ZOGx8ZBpZ301L_1iTqx210mHLNa9Mkuw1QH_J3YDBkhR9VIgqUY_IKnLqFzSmatQrWNiaIo9qa0ICsN1WRBbnEr_Dr3jtZ65CbKOBDe0naFQpBZU_KQaijkKkjVe-bj7Nug6WsQzJeUKH-a9gfwqNwNAq9ierivX9SCM49oAUpphwbgb-MU1vlxWRtvbEa9lYzxdLjig&csui=3
Very simply put - OT believers called upon Yahweh and NT believers call upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
Where is this verse in Romans 10:13 from in the O.T. ? Its a direct quote from Paul.

13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
 
Where is this verse in Romans 10:13 from in the O.T. ? Its a direct quote from Paul.

13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
LOL.... that's what I mean about people needing to read with a little comprehension. I will bold what I was talking about from Joel 2:32 - how long has this been under discussion????

Paul's context contains a partial quote from Joel 2:32 . . . "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." ---- the whole verse is not quoted in Romans 10 ---- one sentence does not make up a context. The context is what surrounds a particular word or statement. I know y'all like to pull out your one sentence arguments but they fail.
 
LOL.... that's what I mean about people needing to read with a little comprehension. I will bold what I was talking about from Joel 2:32 - how long has this been under discussion????

Paul's context contains a partial quote from Joel 2:32 . . . "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." ---- the whole verse is not quoted in Romans 10 ---- one sentence does not make up a context. The context is what surrounds a particular word or statement. I know y'all like to pull out your one sentence arguments but they fail.
The "partial " quote is what Paul is emphasizing- The One Lord a person must call upon to be saved. That his emphasis in Romans 10:9-13- That One Lord is YHWH.

The context is all about Christ the One Lord.

Romans 10:5-17

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.6;But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?(that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”(that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9;If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10;For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11;As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”12;For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14;How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15;And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!

16;But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

hope this helps !!!
 
Correct, 101G... the Word of God, which is Jesus Christ, mentioned in John 1:1-4; 14.
GINOLJC to all,
ERROR, Jesus the Christ, the word of God at John 1:1-14 made NOTHING, repeat, MADE NOTHING, but Jesus the LORD did MADE ALL THINGS. understand V, the WORD of God the Christ ...... "WAS" ....... G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.

in that STATE, the Word of God, the Christ was not in the, "BEGINNING", not in that state. do you understand. in that state, the Word of God the Christ, the EQUAL SHARE of himself was, was to come. did you notice in John 1:1 the Word ... "WAS" ... God? understand now.
Correct again, 101G. Here are two more examples of Jesus Christ pre-incarnate:

Jacob Wrestles
(Genesis 32:24-30)

"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Jacob did not Wrestle with God, but the angel of God supportive scripture, Hosea 12:3 "He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:" (listen carefully), Hosea 12:4 "Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;"
understand now?
"He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt;
and the form of the fourth is like
the Son of God." Daniel 3:25
a form in appearance only, and not a MANIFESTATION, please understand the difference in appearance vs a manifestation, ok.
A God that talks to Himself makes absolutely no sense
do you not talk to yourself? ... example, "Why is that phone ranging at 4 am in the morning, who could that be", or "How come the car is not cranking up this morning". so who was God talking to in Genesis 1:1? Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." and no not the angels. because angels are a creation of God.

Look, God is the first prophet in the bible, in wisdom he spoke his mind, and it is recorded here in genesis. understand Time is outside of God. NOW WHAT makes absolutely no sense, one God three persons talking to each other self? that's makes no sense, and bring confusion.
I honestly believe it's man's attempt to fully understand the Godhead, which is impossible, this side of eternity. As long as person believes Jesus Christ is God, & believes the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Ephesians 1:13-14)... that's most important.
ERROR again, God clearly tells us. Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
understand you been taught in ERROR. to understand the Godhead, is to understand man and woman in the beginning..... did not the woman manifest after the man, yet appeared in the man at the beginning. this is why you're IGNORANT of the Godhead. see, the woman appeared the same day and time the man was ... "MANIFESTED", but herself was "MANIFESTED" later. this is the basic understanding of the Godhead of Christ....... ORDINAL DESIGNATION. my God this is too easy not to understand.

God is the ordinal designation of himself to come LATER? ...... the woman is the ordinal designation of the man to come LATER?
THINK V, did not the woman come from the man ... LATER? but was she not OF, OF, OF, the man? yes, the same with God, LISTEN and LEARN, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
GOD: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

REMEMBER, "but was she not OF, OF, OF, the man? now here, [plural of H433] see the REVELATION NOW. again, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

the CHRIST is manifestation of HIMSELF, (GOD), in flesh that was to come. ORDINAL DESIGNATION is the KEY to understanding the GODHEAD. not three talking to oneself, that's crazy.

101G.
 
The "partial " quote is what Paul is emphasizing- The One Lord a person must call upon to be saved. That his emphasis in Romans 10:9-13- That One Lord is YHWH.

The context is all about Christ the One Lord.
if the Christ is the ONE Lord then Christ is the God of the OLD TESTAMENT ..... ONLY, supportive scripture, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

so, the Lord God of the HOLY PROPHETS, (including the OT) is Jesus, who sent his angel in reference to Rev 1:1 as to who sent his angel, agree? yes or no.
101G.,
 
The "partial " quote is what Paul is emphasizing- The One Lord a person must call upon to be saved. That his emphasis in Romans 10:9-13- That One Lord is YHWH.

The context is all about Christ the One Lord.

Romans 10:5-17

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.6;But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?(that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”(that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9;If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10;For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11;As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”12;For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14;How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15;And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!

16;But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

hope this helps !!!
Thank you for all the scripture. But I will stick with Joel 2:32 referring to Yahweh and Romans 10:13 being the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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