All Claims of The Son's Deity

oops. I am not sure how I got that chapter and verse.
The one that Rom 10:13 quotes is Joe 2:32.
And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls.

So LORD in Rom 10:13 is Yahweh. THere just is not a Greek word to distinguish Yahweh here.
The verse in Joel is referring to who will call upon the name of the Christ. The verse says nothing about that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
 
The verse in Joel is referring to who will call upon the name of the Christ. The verse says nothing about that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
Joel is referring to who will call upon the name of the Father not of Jesus.
If you need a verse that declare Jesus as God, read Roman 9:5;

Rom 9:5 The Messiah is descended from their ancestors according to his human nature. The Messiah is God over everything, forever blessed. Amen.

Joe 2:32 “And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of
יהוה shall be delivered.b For on Mount Tsiyon and in Yerushalayim there shall be an escapec as יהוה has said, and among the survivors whom יהוה calls. Footnotes: b Act_2:21, Rom_10:13. c Isa_4:2-3, Oba_1:17, Rev_14:1.

Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the Name of
יהוה shall be saved.”
 
Joel 2:32 is 100% speaking of the Son as Paul declares He is the One Lord ( YHWH) one must confess to be saved. Roman’s 10:9-13.

To Confess

NT:3670 ‎o(mologe/w ‎homologeo (hom-ol-og-eh'-o);


Strong's Concordance


homologeó: to speak the same, to agree


Original Word: ὁμολογέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: homologeó
Phonetic Spelling: (hom-ol-og-eh'-o)
Definition: to speak the same, to agree
Usage: (a) I promise, agree, (b) I confess, (c) I publicly declare, (d) a Hebraism, I praise, celebrate.


3670 homologéō (from 3674 /homoú, "together" and 3004 /légō, "speak to a conclusion") – properly, to voice the same conclusion, i.e. agree ("confess"); to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with (endorse)

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T


Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

hope this helps!!!
 
I suppose I could see how you get confused. You do not realize that God exists in a triune sense so you cannot understand where the Son of God is still Yahweh along with his Father.
Nope, I'm not confused - my mind is crystal clear! God does not exist in a Triune sense.
Do you not hear how illogical that sounds? ---- 'the Son of God is still Yahweh along with his Father' ---- You have the Son as Almighty God along with the Son's Father who is also God ---- I am confused????
So it is not the people calling on just a man.
People aren't just calling on some regular man either . . . . they are calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ - our risen Lord and Savior.
It is people calling on Yahweh who has been in their midst through incarnation that we know is Jesus. The related problem is you cannot recognize that God fulfills prophecy in surprising fashions that still uphold his faithfulness. Stop reducing God down to pure anthropomorphic conception.
Yes, people in the OT were calling on the name of the LORD, Yahweh, for salvation and now we call upon Jesus Christ for salvation ---- no one comes to the Father but through him.

God did fulfill prophecy ---- the 'seed' of the woman (Gen. 3:15); the Prophet like Moses in whom God would put his word and have him speak all that He commanded him (Deut. 18) ; the offspring of David whom God would raise up from David's body and God would be a Father to him and he would be a son and God would establish his kingdom forever, (2 Sam. 7),etc. . . . He fulfilled prophecy as He said He would.

It is not Unitarians who reduce God down to pure anthropomorphic conception. . . .It is the Trinitarian who reduces God to a human being. God is not a man . . . Jesus is a man. God is the God and Father or our Lord Jesus Christ ---- Jesus is the Son of God, our brother.
 
Ezekiel 1 describes the cherubims
Isaiah 6:2-3 describes the seraphims

Adam, 'nor Eve were created this way.

Humans can die a physical death, the invisible sons of God cannot.
I didn't say the angels had any hand in the actual creating/creation. But as Job records they were there ---- they were who God spoke to ---- 'Let us make' but it was God who created man in his own image --- God ALONE did the creating.
Jesus Christ can redeem sinful humanity, no where does it say that Jesus will redeem angels.
Therefore, two things that are different cannot be the same.

Angels are described as God's messengers, protectors, & powerful beings.
Man wasn't created as such. If so, where are our powers?
Again, like the Jews in the book of John there is that theme of misunderstanding . . . I did not say anything about Jesus redeeming angels.
Oh ---- 'two things that are different cannot be the same' then why do you have God as Spirit and God as a man; why do you have a Father and a Son the same being?
If Jesus wasn't God, then He certainly wouldn't qualify to die for the sins of humanity.
Oh really? That is a total lie . . . Read Romans 5 --- a man brought about the judgment of sin and death through his act of disobedience; a man brought about righteousness and justification through his act of obedience. If God believed that His Son qualified to die for the sins of humanity - then His Son is good enough for me! For God so loved the world that he GAVE his only begotten Son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
 
Wow. you say stuff that excludes you from understanding Jesus. You are right that men are not God. But one man came as incarnation, as the Son of God. And no one says God is a man. But we know that God became incarnate as a man. You miss the simplest distinctions and then you deny the simplest scriptures. You keep digging holes and falling into them.
You always emphasize that Acts 2:36 shows Jesus as Lord but now you deny it in Acts 2:21. Since Acts 2:21 shows fulfillment of Jesus as Lord per Joel 2:32, you have no other logical choice except to confess Jesus as Yahweh if you want to be saved.
I sense you are trying to be open and honest now, but the point about why I refer to acts Acts 2:36 a lot is because it explicitly says Jesus' status as Lord and Christ was made. That's clear, undeniable, Scripture. It isn't something Schoenheit said or something from a Unitarian apologetics book or site.

Do you agree that the word "made" in Acts 2:36 means make, manufacture, or construct? That's what every lexicon and concordance says. So we should understand Jesus' Lordship and Christhood as something created. So being Lord and Christ isn't something Jesus always was. That may be hard for you to wrap your head around because it contradicts your beliefs, but the Bible contradicts a lot of your beliefs. It's ok as long as you can see these things and stop arguing against them.

Acts 2
36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”

So that would mean Jesus is not YHWH. If someone has to receive authority and status from someone else it would mean they didn't always have it. Make sense? Random example, if you worked in a restaurant and got promoted to kitchen manager, you didn't receive the promotion from the garbage boy did you? No, you would have received it from someone who has authority to give you that position. In the case of Jesus, he received authority from God because Jesus is not himself God.

And there is no fulfillment of Joel 2:32 in Acts 2:21. Remember, Acts Acts 2:21,22 says Jesus is a man who was approved by God. There are other people approved by God in the Bible and that doesn't mean they become God. Never mind that Jesus is explicitly not God in John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Ephesians 4:6, but Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:9 still say God is not a man. So God didn't incarnate as a man... the Bible never says God would do that.
 
Do you mean that Jesus is not to be obeyed? Yes or no?
Arians disobedience to Jesus great commission, also a disobedience to the Father's command, "hear Him."
A perfect example to 2John 1:9, Arians who goes far and does not remain in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. (Emphasis is mine)

1. There is an example of Spirit baptism,
2. Also in the name of Jesus baptism,
3. Jesus said "I and the Father are one.

Simple mathematical addition of Biblical account arrived us to the great commission, obeying Jesus and the Father's command.

Mar 1:8 “I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Joh 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

Mat 28:19 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
You seem to be affirming that Jesus and the apostles were closer along the lines of Arianism. It isn't that Jesus is to be disobeyed just because Jesus and everyone else never did what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19. The point is that what Jesus said doesn't mean what you say it does.

So no one in practice baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Scripture. Are you saying everyone in the Bible was baptized the wrong way?
 
I suppose I could see how you get confused. You do not realize that God exists in a triune sense so you cannot understand where the Son of God is still Yahweh along with his Father. So it is not the people calling on just a man. It is people calling on Yahweh who has been in their midst through incarnation that we know is Jesus. The related problem is you cannot recognize that God fulfills prophecy in surprising fashions that still uphold his faithfulness. Stop reducing God down to pure anthropomorphic conception.
That isn't the way Scripture talks about God though. You should begin with this fact to help you clear up your misunderstandings. Also, I am not so sure you believe in Sola Scriptura. Do you believe the Bible is the best authority for your beliefs?
 
Joel 2:32 is 100% speaking of the Son as Paul declares He is the One Lord ( YHWH) one must confess to be saved. Roman’s 10:9-13.

To Confess

NT:3670 ‎o(mologe/w ‎homologeo (hom-ol-og-eh'-o);


Strong's Concordance


homologeó: to speak the same, to agree


Original Word: ὁμολογέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: homologeó
Phonetic Spelling: (hom-ol-og-eh'-o)
Definition: to speak the same, to agree
Usage: (a) I promise, agree, (b) I confess, (c) I publicly declare, (d) a Hebraism, I praise, celebrate.


3670 homologéō (from 3674 /homoú, "together" and 3004 /légō, "speak to a conclusion") – properly, to voice the same conclusion, i.e. agree ("confess"); to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with (endorse)

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T


Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

hope this helps!!!
Step 1: YHWH is God we call on to be saved. Amen?

Step 2: Jesus is a man. Amen?

Step 3: Men aren't God which is why Acts 2:21,22 says Jesus is a man approved by God. Amen?

Step 4: Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:9 explicitly state YHWH is not a man. Amen?

Step 5: The Bible never says "call on Jesus to be saved" but rather "call on the name of the Lord to be saved." and that Lord in the context is YHWH. Amen?

Step 6: Jesus' name is not YHWH. Amen?

Step 7: The Lord sent Jesus per Acts 3:20? Amen?

Step 8: Jesus is the servant of the Lord per Acts 3:13. Amen?

So how do you conclude that Jesus is still YHWH contrary to the Bible showing he isn't?
 
Joel is referring to who will call upon the name of the Father not of Jesus.
If you need a verse that declare Jesus as God, read Roman 9:5;

Rom 9:5 The Messiah is descended from their ancestors according to his human nature. The Messiah is God over everything, forever blessed. Amen.

Joe 2:32 “And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of
יהוה shall be delivered.b For on Mount Tsiyon and in Yerushalayim there shall be an escapec as יהוה has said, and among the survivors whom יהוה calls. Footnotes: b Act_2:21, Rom_10:13. c Isa_4:2-3, Oba_1:17, Rev_14:1.

Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the Name of
יהוה shall be saved.”
But Jesus' name is never said to be YHWH anywhere in the Bible. Actually, Scripture proves Jesus is not YHWH.

The below verses clearly demonstrate Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, isn't the I AM, isn't YHWH, etc. Means Jesus isn't God.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

Exodus 3
14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

There's a lot to clean up here. Why do you think someone who received their anointing as messiah would be God? Acts 2:36 says Jesus' being Lord and Messiah are things that were made.
 
Step 1: YHWH is God we call on to be saved. Amen?

Step 2: Jesus is a man. Amen?

Step 3: Men aren't God which is why Acts 2:21,22 says Jesus is a man approved by God. Amen?

Step 4: Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:9 explicitly state YHWH is not a man. Amen?

Step 5: The Bible never says "call on Jesus to be saved" but rather "call on the name of the Lord to be saved." and that Lord in the context is YHWH. Amen?

Step 6: Jesus' name is not YHWH. Amen?

Step 7: The Lord sent Jesus per Acts 3:20? Amen?

Step 8: Jesus is the servant of the Lord per Acts 3:13. Amen?

So how do you conclude that Jesus is still YHWH contrary to the Bible showing he isn't?
Try sticking with the passage instead of running around every where else except the context which I quoted . Your bias opinion is self evident and contradicts both Paul and Joel. Eisegesis 101 from you once again as expected.

Next fallacy
 
Try sticking with the passage instead of running around every where else except the context which I quoted . Your bias opinion is self evident and contradicts both Paul and Joel. Eisegesis 101 from you once again as expected.

Next fallacy
The passages you provided are rock solid proof Jesus isn't YHWH. That's all I got from it based on comparing what it says to the Old Testament and the various other things the New Testament says. There isn't just one Lord. I know 1 Corinthians 8:6 says there is one Lord, but that isn't the case. There are actually many lords and gods, but for us (AS CHRISTIANS) there is but one God, the Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean God the Father Himself doesn't have authority, since He made Jesus Lord and Christ per Acts 2:36.

1 Corinthians 8
4So about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

You all are looking at it the wrong way. Yes, Jesus does have authority, but he is not equal to God nor possesses the same authority as God. The Father is over all (Ephesians 4:6) meaning that Jesus is subordinate to the Father just like everyone else is. There are varying degrees of greatness in the kingdom of heaven, there are those who have been placed in better positions, some given authority, some not, and Jesus at the right hand position of the throne of God. There is a hierarchy according to Scripture.
 
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Mi
The passages you provided are rock solid proof Jesus isn't YHWH. That's all I got from it based on comparing what it says to the Old Testament and the various other things the New Testament says. There isn't just one Lord. I know 1 Corinthians 8:6 says there is one Lord, but that isn't the case. There are actually many lords and gods, but for us (AS CHRISTIANS) there is but one God, the Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean God Himself doesn't have authority, since He made Jesus Lord and Christ per Acts 2:36.

1 Corinthians 8
4So about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

You all are looking at it the wrong way. Yes, Jesus does have authority, but he is not equal to God nor possesses the same authority as God. The Father is over all (Ephesians 4:6) meaning that Jesus is subordinate to the Father just like everyone else is. There are varying degrees of greatness in the kingdom of heaven, there are those who have been placed in better positions, some given authority, some not, and Jesus at the right hand position of the throne of God. There is a hierarchy according to Scripture.
More nonsense and diversion. We are discussing Romans 10:9-13 and Joel 2:32.

You are off topic and avoiding the passage Paul is quoting.

Nice try

Next fallacy .

I’m on a flight so I'll check in later when I get home
 
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