All Claims of The Son's Deity

A major red flag is a doctrine not built upon the Old Testament...

We see a consistent pattern among the Apostles throughout the New Testament as they build doctrine by drawing from the Old Testament. They cite the Old Testament to validate their teachings, showing continuity and divine consistency on every major theological topic such as Salvation, Christology, and Eschatology. Their ideas aren’t novel because they’re rooted in the Hebrew Scriptures. That Apostolic pattern is missing when it comes to the doctrine of the Trinity because not a single Apostle appeals to the Old Testament to formulate or defend a triune concept of God. Instead, what we see emerge centuries later is a very different approach where 4th-century theologians cherry-pick verses from various parts of the New Testament and combine them to form a new idea independent of Apostolic precedent.

That’s a serious red flag. This same “verse compilation” methodology is what groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses use to claim Jesus is Michael the Archangel, or what various sects use to justify their distinct doctrines. Once this method is accepted, there's no logical stopping point of assembling disconnected verses to form a system the Apostles themselves never articulated. Any doctrine can be built that way and this is why methodology matters. Once you allow doctrines to be constructed independently of the Apostolic and Old Testament foundation, the process snowballs, and suddenly every group’s interpretation can claim legitimacy. The real question isn't just what we believe, but how we arrived there.
 
What are you talking about? Are you saying getting baptized in Jesus name ONLY? is optional.

My savior. the Messiah. Specified to baptize int the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

You think I am going to go against Him because I think he is wrong?

Be my guest but count me out.
As I said, it would be wildly unusual for someone to reject getting baptized in Jesus' name.

Acts 2
37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
No one in your organization has ever read anything about Jesus being incarnated in Scripture. They didn't even have a Greek or Hebrew word for "incarnate" in the 1st century. It was an entirely foreign and pagan concept at the time.
There you go. You cannot get beyond the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary to have discussions on an intelligent level.
 
A major red flag is a doctrine not built upon the Old Testament...

We see a consistent pattern among the Apostles throughout the New Testament as they build doctrine by drawing from the Old Testament. They cite the Old Testament to validate their teachings, showing continuity and divine consistency on every major theological topic such as Salvation, Christology, and Eschatology. Their ideas aren’t novel because they’re rooted in the Hebrew Scriptures. That Apostolic pattern is missing when it comes to the doctrine of the Trinity because not a single Apostle appeals to the Old Testament to formulate or defend a triune concept of God. Instead, what we see emerge centuries later is a very different approach where 4th-century theologians cherry-pick verses from various parts of the New Testament and combine them to form a new idea independent of Apostolic precedent.

That’s a serious red flag. This same “verse compilation” methodology is what groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses use to claim Jesus is Michael the Archangel, or what various sects use to justify their distinct doctrines. Once this method is accepted, there's no logical stopping point of assembling disconnected verses to form a system the Apostles themselves never articulated. Any doctrine can be built that way and this is why methodology matters. Once you allow doctrines to be constructed independently of the Apostolic and Old Testament foundation, the process snowballs, and suddenly every group’s interpretation can claim legitimacy. The real question isn't just what we believe, but how we arrived there.
Wow. You reject Paul's using the divinity of Christ as part of the way of showing the Mosaic law is not needed in the promise -- as found in Gal 3:19-20. I will trust Paul before a trust a Schoenheit follower.
 
As I said, it would be wildly unusual for someone to reject getting baptized in Jesus' name.

Acts 2
37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
All it means is get the spirit. Get born again and that's when you're immersed in the spirit. It has nothing to do with water, or apple butter, or soup.

@FreeInChrist
 
Getting baptized in Jesus' name is not a reference to deity. It's a reference to who's discipleship one is under. They were getting baptized in John's name, Paul's name, and Jesus' name. Getting baptized in Jesus' name and claiming that refers to him being God is a half baked argument.

Acts 19
1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interiora and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”
“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.
“The baptism of John,” they replied.
4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Hmmm. That is what I was telling you regarding this type of passage. But when you see Matt 28:19-20, it becomes evident that Christ's divinity is the reason this is important. Good observation runningman.
 
John 1:1 teaches the Word is not the God.

John 1:3,14 teaches that Jesus was created.


There is nothing in line with an incarnation in the context of John 1:1-18. It speaks of all things being created, flesh is a thing, therefore Jesus was created, not incarnated.
Wow. crazy. You call being God just being a thing. I cannot go for that.
 
There you go. You cannot get beyond the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary to have discussions on an intelligent level.
The difference between you and me is that you cannot discuss your religion using the vocabulary of the Bible, but I can. In other words, there were no people like you going around saying the things you say. For lack of the word "incarnate" they didn't even attempt to describe or explain Jesus being God incarnate.
 
Hmmm. That is what I was telling you regarding this type of passage. But when you see Matt 28:19-20, it becomes evident that Christ's divinity is the reason this is important. Good observation runningman.
This is an example of bad theology. There is no trinity mentioned anywhere in the Bible, but then Matthew 28:19 says something close to what you believe and you hang your hat on it. A classic case of the cart in front of the horse. It's pretty bad if you can't even figure out where the horse fits into the picture Mike.
 
Wow. crazy. You call being God just being a thing. I cannot go for that.
Apostle John said the Word is a thing in 1John 1:1-3. Yes sir, he did, and you know it too. I have put the truth in front of your eyes enough to know what you have been exposed to and what you have not. Feigning innocence of these things comes off as very disingenuous. Just go with the truth and stop putting up so many walls.
 
The difference between you and me is that you cannot discuss your religion using the vocabulary of the Bible, but I can. In other words, there were no people like you going around saying the things you say. For lack of the word "incarnate" they didn't even attempt to describe or explain Jesus being God incarnate.
I am not ready to discuss stuff in the Greek. You have not said you are ready to do that.

I'm sorry that equivalent ideas cannot be reflected with a single word instead of saying "the Word became flesh." It seems a sentence like that is readily misunderstood if one cannot call that His incarnation.
 
This is an example of bad theology. There is no trinity mentioned anywhere in the Bible, but then Matthew 28:19 says something close to what you believe and you hang your hat on it. A classic case of the cart in front of the horse. It's pretty bad if you can't even figure out where the horse fits into the picture Mike.
Now you want to bring horses into this? Why?
Oh my for finding something in scripture like Matt 28:19-20 that influences what I accept as truth in those verses.
 
Apostle John said the Word is a thing in 1John 1:1-3. Yes sir, he did, and you know it too. I have put the truth in front of your eyes enough to know what you have been exposed to and what you have not. Feigning innocence of these things comes off as very disingenuous. Just go with the truth and stop putting up so many walls.
I'm sorry if I have put walls in front of you that block you from the truth. That is one of my weaknesses. Someone else might be able to free you from the Schoenheit agenda. As to those verses, we have seen that those speak of a topic different from who the Word is that was incarnated and among the Jews.
 
I am not ready to discuss stuff in the Greek. You have not said you are ready to do that.

I'm sorry that equivalent ideas cannot be reflected with a single word instead of saying "the Word became flesh." It seems a sentence like that is readily misunderstood if one cannot call that His incarnation.
John 1:3 says everything was created, John 1:14 says Jesus is flesh. Flesh is a thing, Jesus is made of flesh, therefore Jesus was created. The narrative in John 1 is in line with a creation, not an incarnation.
 
Now you want to bring horses into this? Why?
Oh my for finding something in scripture like Matt 28:19-20 that influences what I accept as truth in those verses.
The truth of those verses is no one ever baptized that way in the Bible. It's an invalid way to baptize someone.
 
John 1:3 says everything was created, John 1:14 says Jesus is flesh. Flesh is a thing, Jesus is made of flesh, therefore Jesus was created. The narrative in John 1 is in line with a creation, not an incarnation.
Duh. If Jesus's flesh were not created, he would be walking around as a ghost. It was necessary that he have flesh in order to do his task. So you are right with respect to his incarnation but wrong in missing his pre-existing divinity
 
I'm sorry if I have put walls in front of you that block you from the truth. That is one of my weaknesses. Someone else might be able to free you from the Schoenheit agenda. As to those verses, we have seen that those speak of a topic different from who the Word is that was incarnated and among the Jews.
Your argument about the "Word incarnating" is becoming circular since you keep repeating your premise and conclusion without any Biblical support. It seems "The Word incarnated because I said so" is about as deep as your argument goes.
 
Duh. If Jesus's flesh were not created, he would be walking around as a ghost. It was necessary that he have flesh in order to do his task. So you are right with respect to his incarnation but wrong in missing his pre-existing divinity
Finally you admit something true. So now you have the problem of finding the Word pre-existing in the OT and you still need to work out how the Word is a thing in 1 John 1:1-3 and why John clearly didn't believe Jesus is God in Acts 4:21-33. I would not want to be in your position having so much scripture completely contradicting your premise.
 
Someone should have told Jesus that. So you find Jesus erring in his words. That is quite bad.
No need because Jesus' disciples, directly under his supervision, did not baptize that way either.

The water baptism in Jesus' name is about discipleship. Being a disciple of the trinity is not a Biblical concept.

John 4
1When Jesus realized that the Pharisees were aware He was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John 2(although it was not Jesus who baptized, but His disciples),
 
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