Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation

[Jim]

If you search for my topic with this title "All the Verses that Show Us Salvation can Occur Without Water Baptism", you will see that in Romans alone, there are 53 verses that show us this. I'm currently in 2 Corinthians, and so far there are 21 verses that show us this. I will be adding to it as time allows. But that's a total of 74 verses, so far, that speak of salvation, with NO connection to water baptism - and that's only Romans, 1 Cor. and a small section of 2 Cor.

Maybe you should make your list to show us the opposite?? Especially since there are "plenty of scriptures" that make that connection.

There are no verses outside of Acts that actually describe persons being saved. There are a great number of verses outside of Acts that deal with salvation theologically, but none that describe persons being saved.

For example, Mark 16:16 says "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved", but there is no statement there of persons actually being saved. I was not counting such verses or passages. There clearly are verses in Romans the speak of the general topic of soteriology, but there are no verses in Romans that describe anyone actually being saved. That is because Romans is not really a historical record as are the Gospels and Acts. If you think otherwise, present a verse in Romans that you think describe the act, the process, of someone actually being saved.

 

[civic]

There are no verses outside of Acts that actually describe persons being saved. There are a great number of verses outside of Acts that deal with salvation theologically, but none that describe persons being saved.

For example, Mark 16:16 says "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved", but there is no statement there of persons actually being saved. I was not counting such verses or passages. There clearly are verses in Romans the speak of the general topic of soteriology, but there are no verses in Romans that describe anyone actually being saved. That is because Romans is not really a historical record as are the Gospels and Acts. If you think otherwise, present a verse in Romans that you think describe the act, the process, of someone actually being saved.

Romans 10 sure does

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

 

[Jim]

Romans 10 sure does

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

Clearly, you are not getting it. That is not a description of any person or persons actually being saved. It is a discussion of what it takes to be saved.

It is one of many verses that do that. But here again, we see that confession, for example, is identified as one of the conditions for being saved. You should not reject confession as one of the conditions simply because it is not given in every discussion of salvation.

 

[civic]

Clearly, you are not getting it. That is not a description of any person or persons actually being saved. It is a discussion of what it takes to be saved.

It is one of many verses that do that. But here again, we see that confession, for example, is identified as one of the conditions for being saved. You should not reject confession as one of the conditions simply because it is not given in every discussion of salvation.

It’s a description of everyone who can be saved. It’s universal and individual. And Acts was written after Paul’s epistles

 

[Jim]

It’s a description of everyone who can be saved. It’s universal and individual. And Acts was written after Paul’s epistles

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[civic]

Thank you for your thoughts.

You are welcome

On a side note Romans was written durning the timline of Acts 20.

 

[dwight92070]

There are no verses outside of Acts that actually describe persons being saved. There are a great number of verses outside of Acts that deal with salvation theologically, but none that describe persons being saved.

For example, Mark 16:16 says "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved", but there is no statement there of persons actually being saved. I was not counting such verses or passages. There clearly are verses in Romans the speak of the general topic of soteriology, but there are no verses in Romans that describe anyone actually being saved. That is because Romans is not really a historical record as are the Gospels and Acts. If you think otherwise, present a verse in Romans that you think describe the act, the process, of someone actually being saved.

What a copout! What a smokescreen! You're back to your legalistic obsession, trying to suggest that water baptism is the act and the process of someone actually being saved! Well, that's false. Every person in Acts or elsewhere who was saved - were saved BEFORE they were baptized, so baptism is not part of the process of salvation. In reality, being saved is NOT an act, nor is it a process- here we are again, confronted with the false teaching that an act, a work, must be performed to be saved. False! Heresy!
When a person gets saved, you won't see a physical act or a physical process, because salvation takes place in the heart, when someone puts their faith in Jesus.

You're essentially asking the same question that the Jews in John 6:28 asked - only they were sincere. "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" What act or physical process shall we go through to be saved?

Jesus answered them: There is no act or physical process. Just believe in Him whom He has sent.

There are 10 verses in Acts where a person or people are saved and then later, they are baptized.

There are 15 verses in Acts where a person or people are saved, with NO mention of baptism.

You claimed there were MORE verses in Acts that show people getting saved and baptized than there are verses where people are saved, with no mention of baptism.

Are you going to admit that you were wrong? Or are you going to hang on to your arrogance and totally ignore your false claim?

 

[Jim]

What a copout! What a smokescreen! You're back to your legalistic obsession, trying to suggest that water baptism is the act and the process of someone actually being saved! Well, that's false. Every person in Acts or elsewhere who was saved - were saved BEFORE they were baptized, so baptism is not part of the process of salvation. In reality, being saved is NOT an act, nor is it a process- here we are again, confronted with the false teaching that an act, a work, must be performed to be saved. False! Heresy!
When a person gets saved, you won't see a physical act or a physical process, because salvation takes place in the heart, when someone puts their faith in Jesus.

You're essentially asking the same question that the Jews in John 6:28 asked - only they were sincere. "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" What act or physical process shall we go through to be saved?

Jesus answered them: There is no act or physical process. Just believe in Him whom He has sent.

There are 10 verses in Acts where a person or people are saved and then later, they are baptized.

There are 15 verses in Acts where a person or people are saved, with NO mention of baptism.

You claimed there were MORE verses in Acts that show people getting saved and baptized than there are verses where people are saved, with no mention of baptism.

Are you going to admit that you were wrong? Or are you going to hang on to your arrogance and totally ignore your false claim?

I will say goodbye and just let you wallow in your ignorance.

 

[dwight92070]

Clearly, you are not getting it. That is not a description of any person or persons actually being saved. It is a discussion of what it takes to be saved.

It is one of many verses that do that. But here again, we see that confession, for example, is identified as one of the conditions for being saved. You should not reject confession as one of the conditions simply because it is not given in every discussion of salvation.

I will say goodbye and just let you wallow in your ignorance.

In other words, you're not man enough to admit you made a false statement.

 

[dwight92070]

I'll say goodbye and let you wallow in your arrogance.

 

[Jim]

I'll say goodbye

Good!!

 

[dwight92070]

This is an example of someone who hopes his false teaching is correct and therefore he makes up "facts" from the scripture.

Let's see how many times that people are saved in Acts, where baptism is mentioned:

1. Acts 2:41 Pentecost
2. Acts 8:12 the Samaritans
3. Acts 8:13 Simon the Magician
4. Acts 8:37 Ethiopian eunuch
5. Acts 9:18 Saul
6. Acts 10:48 Cornelius
7. Acts 16:14 Lydia
8. Acts 16:31 the jailer
9. Acts 18:8 Crispus
10. Acts 19:5 Disciples at Ephesus

Okay, now let's see how many times that people are saved in Acts, where baptism is NOT mentioned:

1. Acts 4:4 crowd in Jerusalem - "many of those believed"
2. Acts 5:14 Christians in Jerusalem - "And all the more believers in the Lord, were constantly added to their number,"
3. Acts 6:7 "the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem,"
4. Acts 6:7 "and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith."
5. Acts 9:42 "and many (in Joppa) believed in the Lord."
6. Acts 11:21 preachers from Cyprus and Cyrene came to Antioch "... and a large number who believed turned to the Lord."
7. Acts 11:24 Barnabas preaches at Antioch "and considerable numbers were brought to the Lord."
8. Acts 13:12 the proconsul on the island of Cyprus believed
9. Acts 13:48 in Pisidian Antioch "as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
10: Acts 14:1 In Iconium, "a large number of people believed,"
11. Acts 17:4 Thessalonica "and some of them were persuaded ... along with a large number of God-fearing Greeks and a number of leading women."
12. Acts 17:12 In Berea "many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men."
13. Acts 17:34 Mars hill sermon "some men joined him and believed."
14. Acts 19:18 Ephesus "many of those ... had believed"
15. Acts 28:24 Paul in Rome "Some were being persuaded by the things spoken,"

There are more salvations recorded in the book of Acts, with no mention of baptism, then there are salvations recorded with baptism.

 

[dwight92070]

"Then He (Jesus) opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, 'Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, ...' " Luke 24:45-47

Did you notice that Jesus did not include baptism in their proclamation to all nations? If baptism saves anybody, He would have included that, but He didn't.

Also did you notice what brings forgiveness of sins? Repentance! NOT baptism!

So this clarifies and confirms what many have said all along, regarding Acts 2:38. It is not baptism that brings forgiveness of sins, it is repentance, which is the first word in Peter's sermon in that verse: "Repent, ... "

As always is the case, the people Peter was preaching to, believed first, and then were baptized later.

Acts 2:41 "So then, those who had received his word were baptized; "

Believing always preceded baptism in Acts, never the other way around.

 

[Behold]

What a copout! What a smokescreen! You're back to your legalistic obsession, trying to suggest that water baptism is the act and the process of someone actually being saved!

Where does this nonsense...>>""""you have to have water around to become a Christian".... come from?

Its a "cult of Mary".. Theology.

it came from their demonic Bible, the : Douay Rheims.

Specifically found in : John 3.

Notice.

This demonic "bible" teaches.. that you are "born again.......BY water".

"born again.. = BY Water"

See that?

This is "Baptismal Regeneration" or "Born again......BY WATER"..

And why is that demonic, as a theology?

Well, its because Water Baptism is being given the Credit for what only The Holy Spirit can do., as only the Holy Spirit can cause the new birth.........not WATER Baptism.

So, how did the "cult of mary" create such a deception?

They took John the Baptist's Water Baptism, for JEWs, that Peter is using in Acts 2, when He didnt yet have Paul's Gospel of Grace, and all Peter knew to do, was say....>>"Repent and be Water Baptized for the Remission of sins".

So, we know that "remission of sins" is not eternal forgiveness, but Peter didnt know this at that TIME.., just as he also didnt know at that time that GENTILES could be saved.
So, there you have the "1st Pope", pretty much Clueless.. at the beginning of the "Acts of the Apostles"... and the "cult of Mary" is built on this one's lack of understanding regarding God's Gospel that Paul teaches.....
So, the "cult of mary" is not specifically related to Paul's Doctrine, which is the actual "doctrine for the Church".

Paul's Gospel......= Has no water baptism in it.

And that is not suggesting that you are not be water baptized.........its simply showing you that the Real Gospel is not about WATER Baptism.

 

[Doug Brents]

This is an example of someone who hopes his false teaching is correct and therefore he makes up "facts" from the scripture.

Let's see how many times that people are saved in Acts, where baptism is mentioned:

1. Acts 2:41 Pentecost
2. Acts 8:12 the Samaritans
3. Acts 8:13 Simon the Magician
4. Acts 8:37 Ethiopian eunuch
5. Acts 9:18 Saul
6. Acts 10:48 Cornelius
7. Acts 16:14 Lydia
8. Acts 16:31 the jailer
9. Acts 18:8 Crispus
10. Acts 19:5 Disciples at Ephesus

Okay, now let's see how many times that people are saved in Acts, where baptism is NOT mentioned:

1. Acts 4:4 crowd in Jerusalem - "many of those believed"
2. Acts 5:14 Christians in Jerusalem - "And all the more believers in the Lord, were constantly added to their number,"
3. Acts 6:7 "the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem,"
4. Acts 6:7 "and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith."
5. Acts 9:42 "and many (in Joppa) believed in the Lord."
6. Acts 11:21 preachers from Cyprus and Cyrene came to Antioch "... and a large number who believed turned to the Lord."
7. Acts 11:24 Barnabas preaches at Antioch "and considerable numbers were brought to the Lord."
8. Acts 13:12 the proconsul on the island of Cyprus believed
9. Acts 13:48 in Pisidian Antioch "as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
10: Acts 14:1 In Iconium, "a large number of people believed,"
11. Acts 17:4 Thessalonica "and some of them were persuaded ... along with a large number of God-fearing Greeks and a number of leading women."
12. Acts 17:12 In Berea "many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men."
13. Acts 17:34 Mars hill sermon "some men joined him and believed."
14. Acts 19:18 Ephesus "many of those ... had believed"
15. Acts 28:24 Paul in Rome "Some were being persuaded by the things spoken,"

There are more salvations recorded in the book of Acts, with no mention of baptism, then there are salvations recorded with baptism.

This is a completely irrelevant anecdote. Just because baptism was not mentioned doesn't mean that it wasn't done, and the fact that we are told that it is required in several places, and that it is the point at which salvation occurs makes it essential for the reception of salvation.

Again you demonstrate that you don't really care what Scripture says. You just want to fit your preconceived ideas into Scripture and make them sound real.

 

[Behold]

This is a completely irrelevant anecdote. Just because baptism was not mentioned doesn't mean that it wasn't done,

Everyone should be water baptized........after they are saved . (Born again).

If you look at the Philip <> Eunuch.......and read it.....you see that Philip understood that water baptism can't save you.... and that Salvation is based on FAITH in Christ... vs getting wet.

Philip told the Eunuch.........."yes, you may be water baptized...= IF you have believed in Jesus with all your heart.. = FIRST.

See that?

That is "All who CALL on the Name of Jesus." or "As many as BELIEVE"... shall be SAVED.

 

[Doug Brents]

Everyone should be water baptized........after they are saved . (Born again).

If you look at the Philip <> Eunuch.......and read it.....you see that Philip understood that water baptism can't save you.... and that Salvation is based on FAITH in Christ... vs getting wet.

Philip told the Eunuch.........."yes, you may be water baptized...= IF you have believed in Jesus with all your heart.. = FIRST.

See that?

That is "All who CALL on the Name of Jesus." or "As many as BELIEVE"... shall be SAVED.

You cannot be born again without the Spirit AND water (John 3:5). You cannot be born again without being water baptized. It is in baptism that we become saved (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27, etc.).

 

[dwight92070]

None of those verses say that. You misinterpret every one and show that you really don't care about verses that say we're saved by repenting and believing in Jesus, not by anything else.

 

[Red Baker]

Faith, repentance and confession all seem to occur at the same time - that time is your new birth, your salvation. If you have faith in Jesus, you will repent; if you repent from dead works - (sinful works and works in which you put your trust to be saved) - you will have faith in Jesus. And if you both repent and believe in your heart, you will confess Jesus as your Lord, because "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks."
Luke 6:45 "The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil (treasure) brings forth what is evil; for the mouth speaks from that which fills the heart."

So when we get saved, we will "speak from that which fills our heart" - that is. that Jesus is our Lord. It does not matter if any other person is there to hear our confession - God witnesses it. He knows what is in our heart, and He alone confirms what we believe in our heart by sending His Holy Spirit to dwell in us.

So repentance, faith, and confession all are part of being born again - all of these occur before water baptism, which is simply a sign of our conversion.

Baptism never has been, nor is it now a condition to be saved.

This short post is filled with a false understanding of the scriptures~all highlighted above by me.

1. The new birth must occur before faith, repentance and certainly before water baptism.

2. "that time is your new birth"~No man knows when he was born of the Spirit of God, impossible! No more than one knows about his natural birth, you know only by time and growth, and fruits from that growth very simple to understand, unless one has his own personal bias agenda to protect and put forth, which you and others on this forum certainly have, as seen by the posts.

3. "So when we get saved"~you used the word save/saved/salvation with one sweeping wide brush, as though it is used in only one sense in the scriptures, and that sense to you is salvation from sin and condemnation, which is so far from the truth. It is used in that sense, but in a very limited sense~mostly it is used in a practical sense, as being saved from error, false teaching, being saved to a fuller understanding of truth, etc.

4. So repentance, faith, and confession all are part of being born again ~what an ignorance statement from someone who takes delight in knowing the scriptures. They have zero part in being born of the Spirit of God, ZERO! They are evidences of one that has been born of God and would qualify such one for water baptism.

5. "Baptism never has been, nor is it now a condition to be saved" Sir, you are so wrong, as you are on many other things which you have written. What does this scripture mean to you?

Mark 16:16​

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

I'll wait to hear from you or any other person who thinks he has answers to help you out, for I'm certain you will need to call some of your friends to give you a helping hand, but, I can assure you, you will lose this battle.

 

[Dizerner]

You can't know when you're born again? Lol.

Strange position.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life (1 Jn. 5:13 NKJ)