Doug Brents
Well-known member
"“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John came; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it." You, or your translation, omitted a very important phrase in that verse (see bolded phrase above). This verse is not saying that the Law and Prophets ceased to be relevant when John came. They ceased to be proclaimed (by John and Jesus, the Pharisees and the keepers of the Law continued to proclaim them), and the Gospel of the (coming) Kingdom of God began to be preached by John and then Jesus. This does not say that the Old Covenant ceased and the New Covenant began with the birth or teaching of John.The topic was the thief on the cross - you said that was under the Old Covenant.
So you just ignore Luke 16:16 and say that this is irrelevant to the topic?
"The Law and the prophets were until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached ..."
According to this verse, the New Covenant extends throughout the life of Jesus and starts with John.
The fact that these books are included in the NT section of the Bible is very much irrelevant. They tell the story of the Gospel of Jesus which is part of the New Covenant, but it was all taught while under the Old Covenant. Jesus was born and lived His whole life under the Old Covenant so that He could redeem us from under the Old Covenant. He had to live under it to fulfill it, in order to complete it, so that it could be removed. If He hadn't fulfilled it while living under it, He could not have removed it and given us a New Covenant to replace the Old.You also ignore that the four gospels are in the New Testament section of your Bible, which includes the story of the thief on the cross - but that too is irrelevant?
Very much, just as David was a king without a kingdom (because Saul was still king over the kingdom that David was to rule).You also brought up the topic that the kingdom of God had not come during Jesus' life - I assume you think it started when He died. So if He was born a King, as the wise men claimed, then is He a King without a Kingdom?
Jesus' kingdom and the New Covenant are two very different things. Jesus was born King of the whole world, but Satan still rules the world (John 12:31).And when He started His ministry, Nathanael called Him the King of Israel, whether the Jews recognized it or not. Truly, His kingdom even then was those who were His disciples. He even told Pilate that His kingdom, even though not of this world, was everyone who hears His voice (and follows Him)
But of course, all of that is irrelevant, right?
The New Covenant is not His Kingdom. It is the promise He made in His blood to rescue those who are His from death and give them His righteousness because He took on their sin and condemnation. Those who receive His grace that is given through the New Covenant are in His Kingdom.