Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation
- Thread starter dwight92070
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Doug Brents
Well-known member
Yes, the Gentiles were baptized "en" the Spirit when they were baptized in water. And the Samaritans were baptized "en" the Spirit when they were baptized in water. The Gentiles received miraculous empowerment before they were saved, and the Samaritans received miraculous empowerment after they were saved. The two functions are not the same and can be done in either order.
The eight souls were saved THROUGH the Flood, just as we are saved THROUGH faith by being baptized.
The Spirit does the action of saving us through water baptism. If there is no water involved in baptism, then John 3:5 and 1 Pet 3:21 become lies.
Again, the Spirit functions DURING water baptism. Yes, it is the Spirit doing the work (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21), but He does so during water baptism.
Sorry scripture does not support you
Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”
Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”
The Samaritans on the other hand
Acts 8:14–17 (LEB) — 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. 16 (For he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then they placed their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.
Unlike the Gentiles and the Jews the Samaritans had not yet received the spirit.
Again the flood did not save them
Rather they were preserved through the flood by the Arc
Sorry the Spirit is not dependent upon water
He worked in the Gentiles before water baptism and in the Samaritans after water baptism.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
The Holy Spirit fell HOW? He fell ON those listening. Not into, not indwelling, but ON all those who were listening to the message (including the Jews). The Jews already had the indwelling, before they came to Cornelius' house, but He fell the same way to all of them: ONTO them.
Again, poured out ON the Gentiles the same way the Jews received Him at the same time (as well as on Pentecost).
Surely no one can deny that the Holy Spirit is telling us that the Gentiles are acceptable into the Church, and so should be baptized into Christ in water so that their sins can be removed just as ours have been.
Again, He fell ON them, just as He fell ON the Jews "at the beginning", on Pentecost.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit (in fire and power as on Pentecost and at Cornelius' house) is not what saves us. If it were, then only those two groups have ever been saved in the NT, because that event has not been repeated outside those two events.
You argue that we are saved when we believe. If that were the case then the Samaritans, in accepting the Word of God, were saved.
I argue that they were saved when they were baptized into Christ. Either way, these men had done both, and so were already saved. And ALL the saved have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:9, 1 Cor 3:16). So these men had the indwelling of the Spirit already. What they did not have was miraculous empowerment.
Peter and John came so that they would receive miraculous empowerment of the Spirit, not the indwelling which they already had because they were saved.
They had been baptized into Christ (meaning they were saved and so had the indwelling of the Spirit). But the Spirit had not yet fallen ON any of them in power.
They had not received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit, but they did have the indwelling already, because they were already saved.
Just as we are resurrected by the Holy Spirit through our faith when we pass through the water of baptism. You are arguing with God here. 1 Pet 3:21 says quite plainly that we are saved through baptism (in water, like the Flood) by the working of the Holy Spirit and our faith in Jesus' blood.
The Holy Spirit is dependent on whatever God says He is dependent upon.
Did God have to have Naaman dip seven times in Jordan in order to be cleansed? No, but that is what God said (through the prophet) and so that is how it had to happen.
Did the nation of Israel have to march around the city of Jericho once a day for six days and then seven times on the seventh day for the walls to fall down? No, but that is what God told them through Moses and so that is how it had to happen.
Do we have to confess Jesus as our Lord, repent of our sins, and be baptized in water in order to have our sins forgiven? YES!! Because that is what God says leads to receiving His gift of forgiveness and salvation from sin. Did He have to make that the way it happens? NO! But that is how He set it up, so that is what we have to do. PERIOD!
LOL
The phrase fell into never appears in scripture. Must you invent unbiblical phrases to defend your theology
Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”
Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”
Baptised en the Spirit
which places a man in Christ
1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Drinking of the Spirit refer to the the taking in of the Spirit internally - indwelling
The Samaritans on the other hand
Acts 8:14–17 (LEB) — 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. 16 (For he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then they placed their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.
Unlike the Gentiles and the Jews the Samaritans had not yet received the spirit.
The spirit fell on the Gentiles as it had on the Jews Like the Jews they received the Spirit
received the spirit as had the Jews
The promise to all who believe
John 7:37–39 (KJV 1900) — 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Acts 7:38 which speaks of the indwelling calls it receiving the spirit
The gentiles received the Spirit the Samaritans had not
If the Samaritans had not received the Spirit they were not indwelt
plain and simple
Doug Brents
Well-known member
No, that is exactly my point, there is no such thing as the Spirit falling INTO a person. He comes to dwell within the hearts of those who are His, but He does not fall into them. He may fall ON anyone, whether His or not, but He only dwells within those who are His.
And again, how did the Apostles receive the Spirit at the beginning (when the Church began on Pentecost)? He fell on them in miraculous power (praise and speaking in tongues) appearing as tongues of flame. This is exactly how He fell on Cornelius, in miraculous power (praise and speaking in tongues) appearing as tongues of flame. He is not speaking to their already being saved in Christ.
There is nowhere in Scripture that says that the baptism with the Holy Spirit results in salvation. The baptism of the Holy Spirit results in miraculous empowerment, not salvation. Salvation comes through water baptism as Acts 2:38 and 1 Pet 3:21 state clearly and directly.
And happens when the man is baptized in water as Scripture says (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Mark 16:16).
And happens when man is baptized in water as Scripture says (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Mark 16:16).
Tom, any way you cut it, the Samaritans were already saved, and all the saved have the indwelling of the Spirit. The fact that the Spirit had not fallen on any of them was an indication that they had not received miraculous empowerment, not that they had not been indwelt.
Yes, it is receiving the Spirit, but that is not the only way the Spirit is received. The Spirit may be received both through indwelling (which happens when one is saved through water baptism) and miraculous empowerment (which may happen before (as with the Gentiles) or after (as with the Samaritans) salvation or not at all (as with us today).
If that is your point it is meaning less as the phrase never appears in scripture to desribe anything
Find a verse which speaks of the apostles receiving the Spirit in which an indwelling is not involved
If you cannot do that you do not have a leg to stand on and are inventing terms to suit your theology
I will be waiting
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Acts 2:3-4
The Apostles, and the rest of the other 108 with them, already had the indwelling of the Spirit since Jesus gave Him to them after His resurrection. They did not need to receive the indwelling again.
dwight92070
Well-known member
dwight92070
Well-known member
No, you seem to be saying that about baptism.
Actually Acts 8:36 doesn't link any of that to salvation at all. I guess you must have read that in there somehow.
dwight92070
Well-known member
Correct, but Doug said it does, so apparently HE read that in there somehow.
Now I'll answer your question:
You directed your question to these two statements that I made: Doug, Acts 8:36 does NOT link salvation with water. Since the eunuch WAS saved, he rightly asked to be baptized.
Where in Acts 8 do you read that? Answer -- Nowhere, you just made it up to suit your false ideas.
I'm assuming your question is specifically referring to my 2nd statement = Since the eunuch was saved, he rightly asked to be baptized.
My answer? I never suggested that I READ that in Acts 8, except for "he... asked to be baptized." So that leaves my comment, "Since the eunuch was saved." That is obvious, since he admitted that he believed that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and we know from between 100-200 verses, that if a person believes that, they are saved. You can see those verses by getting on my new post:
All the Verses That Show Us Salvation Can Occur Without Water Baptism
I am in the process of adding more verses, since there are so many, between 100-200 verses.
The water required for salvation crowd has a lot of scripture which it must ignore
Where does it say that the eunuch was saved before he was baptized?
Certainly, faith is the conditional prerequisite for salvation; however, faith is not the only one.
dwight92070
Well-known member
Before he was baptized, he made this statement: "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:37
"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Acts 10:43
So we see that he received forgiveness of his sins before he was baptized - which means he was saved before he was baptized.
The old Faith Alone nonsense, something the Bible never says accept to rebut it. Faith is a condition, obviously, but not the only condition.
