Your Views on The Trinity

[101G]

For if you say the Spirit is him and not separate as many do.... how does that work?

Well, be glad for I have to run.

I look forward to some answers later

here is the ANSWER to all your questions, "DIVERSITY" or the ECHAD or the "EQUAL SHARE" of God himself in flesh. and yes, just as "ECHAD", Deuteronomy 6:4 is in the bible describing God NATURE, likewise "The EQUAL SHARE with God", in Philippians 2:6 is in the bible, ...... also is "DIVERSITY" in the bible, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Offspring: G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin. .... (as in KINS-MAN REDEEMER)
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

there is our word, diversity the OFFSPRING of God, "the SON", God SHARED EQUALLY in flesh and blood, better known in the OT the ECHAD of God...... and OFFSPRING...... there is that equal sharing of the Spirit. just FIRST and LAST, or BEGINNING and END, or ALPHA and OMEGA.... oh my this is just too easy.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

Siunce you copy and pasted this from the other or there from here.

3#.
In Exodus Torah 3 God said to Moses..... to go tell them ...." Ehyeh sent me to you."

SO FROM GODs MOUTH... Ehyeh should be it.

The word "Ehyeh" is how God revealed His name to Moses. Names are not living creatures. Names are titles and they are not living things. The devil got you to believe this nonsense without you even thinking it through.

 

[Peterlag]

10. God who became human.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

1 Timothy 3:16
“he.” There are some Greek manuscripts that read, “God appeared in the flesh.” This reading of some Greek manuscripts has passed into some English versions, and the King James Version is one of them. Trinitarian scholars admit, however, that these Greek texts were altered by scribes in favor of the Trinitarian position. The reading of the earliest and best manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.” Almost all the modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent.

 

[Peterlag]

Heavenly Father: God the Father

The word "Father" is a name. So is "God the Father." Names are not living creatures. Names are titles and they are not living things. The devil got you to believe this nonsense without you even thinking it through.

 

[DavidTree]

The word "Father" is a name. So is "God the Father." Names are not living creatures. Names are titles and they are not living things. The devil got you to believe this nonsense without you even thinking it through.

Names are not living creatures.

Peterlag is a name
Peterlag "is not a living creature"

 

[MTMattie]

first before 101G answer this question, you also said, "And when you take your car to the mechanic you walk back because you have yet to figure out how to drive 2 at once". but 101G drove to the mechanic...... Ok. now to your #1. Question, he came HIMSELF, "in diversity... the EQUAL SHARE of himself in flesh". A. to set the example for us to follow. B. to REDEEM all that he had CREATED. C. to establish the NEW COVENANT. now, to your next question,

did you not READ, 2 Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." have you ever read any of 101G posts? if you have you know that 101G teaches that God is the "ECHAD" or the "EQUAL SHARE" of himself in "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", and "RANK". SO, KNOWINGTHAT, God in the ECHAD of himself, the EQUAL SHARE of himself, (ONE PERSON), is in heaven and on earth AT THE SAME TIME. supportive scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (Smile)...... understand now?

while on this same question, may 101G ask you a question. scripture first, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" "if, according to the trinity doctrine of three persons, the Lord Jesus the Christ, the Son is said, a separate and distinct PERSON, from the LORD who is the Father, but is ONE Spirit.... 101G question is this, ("HOW MUCH OF THE ONE SPIRIT WAS G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') or made of no reputation, 1. to make empty. 2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify). WHEN THE ONE PERSON "SON" CAME AS THE CHRIST?"

so, MT, tell us HOW MUCH OF THE ONE "SPIRIT" WAS G2758 κενόω kenoo WHILE IN THAT FLESH BONE AND BLOOD AS THE "SON". remember, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God", form meaning NATURE, so was it 1/3 of the Spirit, for the Son to be G2758 κενόω kenoo? or how much of the Spirit was G2758 κενόω kenoo for the person the son?

101G cannot wait to hear that answer.

101G.

from the LORD who is the Father, but is ONE Spirit... from above.

There is one Spirit. Yes. But not part of either the Father or Son.

Look, We view ECHAD DIFFERENTLY. And here I am going back into notes.....
We simply do not agree and from that point I guess neither one of us will answer the others
questions satisfactorily.


ECHAD UNIFIED ONE
Gen 2:24 Two become one
Man plus Woman

Deut 6:4 God is one
Father+Son+Spirit

As I understand ECHAD , ECHAD actually means a compound unity.

How does this apply to God being ECHAD as in "three" for our use here...
well, if god was in fact singular then the Hebrew word יָחִיד Yachid would have been used, because it is claimed, Yachid means one in singularity. But it is not biblical.

So can it be proved אֶחָֽד׃ ’e-ḥāḏ denotes plurality and consideration of the fact that scriptures have been divinely inspired would not a God who is not triune have required the usage of Yachid?

Lets quickly look at the meaning of Echad.

First:
אֶחָֽד׃ ’e-ḥāḏ is a numerical adjective – ‘Definite Numeral Adjectives’ express an exact number in cardinal form that is one, three, ten and in ordinal form that is first, second. It is literally the number one in the Hebrew numerical system.

We can get definite numeral adjectives in cardinal form by questioning ‘how many?’ to noun.
Therefore, it is the NOUN that follows a Definite Numeral Adjective that denotes plurality.

EXAMPLES of things proving a plurality of ECHAD

One team or one family doesn’t always mean an outright one. A team or a family can consist of more than one person while still being one single team or family.

In the same our one God can mean that there is more than one person within God. (forming the Godhead)

So, to condense this, if possible... which it is not....

There are the rabbinic teaching declares that echad represents the fusion of diverse elements into a harmonious whole.
see: https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/508442?lang=bi

Glossary E

This is the Glossary page for words beginning with E

www.messianiclearning.org

Deuteronomy 6:4

This article will cover everything about Deuteronomy 6:4. We will explore how rabbis interpret why Moses used YHVH three times and why he chose the word “echad” instead of “yachid…

answeringjudasimblog.wordpress.com

Now this one link I quote part of

Echad

Now, concerning the concept of “echad” and how that applies to YHWH and Yeshua, I would direct your attention to the tent of meeting, which was made of ten curtains to go around the outer perimeter of the tent of meeting. Clips of brass were made to join the curtains together into one unit; this one unit according to Scripture was considered “echad,” which is the word used to describe this joining action in the above passage. Now, we are not suggesting that YHWH and Yeshua are separate units in any way; but rather, are simply manifestations of the Supreme Being. In this we mean that both YHWH and Yeshua are manifestations of this Supreme Being. The manifestation of the Son (which we know by the name of Yeshua) is a very complex manifestation. By this we mean that within this one human body were multiple manifestations of the Supreme Being, namely, the Father incarnate, the seven manifold Spirit of YHWH, the Blood, and the Voice, in particular. There were other manifestations included in the body of Mashiach Yeshua, but this should be sufficient for you to see the very complex nature of Mashiach.

Here is one more example from Scripture on the usage of the word “echad.”

Shemot (Exodus) 25:36-37
36 “Their knops and their branches shall be of one piece with it; the whole of it one beaten work of pure gold.
37 And you shall make the lamps thereof, seven: and they shall light the lamps thereof, to give light over against it.”

Please note that YHWH states the menorah is “one” piece, made from a single piece of gold, that is, it is echad. However, there are seven branches and seven lamps upon those branches. This piece of furniture in the holy place represents the seven manifest Spirits of YHWH.

Last, because you may have stopped reading by now.

The oneness of echad is not undermined by plurality; indeed, it employs plurality as the ingredients of unity. Thus, even within the most orthodox Jewish teachings the word echad carries the idea of plurality in unity. I personally feel that by this orthodox Jewish definition of echad, we are not contradicting Scripture with the teachings of a Trinity as understood in our classical orthodox theology. If Deuteronomy were to destroy the doctrine of the Trinity it would have had to use the word
yachid not echad.

I will forever believe that God/Godhead is comprised of The Father/YHWH, The Son/ Jesus the Christ/ and The Holy Spirit.

3 individuals under the umbrella of God/Godhead.

 

[DavidTree]

There is one Spirit. Yes. But not part of either the Father or Son.

Look, We view ECHAD DIFFERENTLY. And here I am going back into notes.....
We simply do not agree and from that point I guess neither one of us will answer the others
questions satisfactorily.


ECHAD UNIFIED ONE
Gen 2:24 Two become one
Man plus Woman

Deut 6:4 God is one
Father+Son+Spirit

As I understand ECHAD , ECHAD actually means a compound unity.

How does this apply to God being ECHAD as in "three" for our use here...
well, if god was in fact singular then the Hebrew word יָחִיד Yachid would have been used, because it is claimed, Yachid means one in singularity. But it is not biblical.

So can it be proved אֶחָֽד׃ ’e-ḥāḏ denotes plurality and consideration of the fact that scriptures have been divinely inspired would not a God who is not triune have required the usage of Yachid?

Lets quickly look at the meaning of Echad.

First:
אֶחָֽד׃ ’e-ḥāḏ is a numerical adjective – ‘Definite Numeral Adjectives’ express an exact number in cardinal form that is one, three, ten and in ordinal form that is first, second. It is literally the number one in the Hebrew numerical system.

We can get definite numeral adjectives in cardinal form by questioning ‘how many?’ to noun.
Therefore, it is the NOUN that follows a Definite Numeral Adjective that denotes plurality.

EXAMPLES of things proving a plurality of ECHAD

One team or one family doesn’t always mean an outright one. A team or a family can consist of more than one person while still being one single team or family.

In the same our one God can mean that there is more than one person within God. (forming the Godhead)

So, to condense this, if possible... which it is not....

There are the rabbinic teaching declares that echad represents the fusion of diverse elements into a harmonious whole.
see: https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/508442?lang=bi

Glossary E

This is the Glossary page for words beginning with E

www.messianiclearning.org

Deuteronomy 6:4

This article will cover everything about Deuteronomy 6:4. We will explore how rabbis interpret why Moses used YHVH three times and why he chose the word “echad” instead of “yachid…

answeringjudasimblog.wordpress.com

Now this one link I quote part of

Echad

Now, concerning the concept of “echad” and how that applies to YHWH and Yeshua, I would direct your attention to the tent of meeting, which was made of ten curtains to go around the outer perimeter of the tent of meeting. Clips of brass were made to join the curtains together into one unit; this one unit according to Scripture was considered “echad,” which is the word used to describe this joining action in the above passage. Now, we are not suggesting that YHWH and Yeshua are separate units in any way; but rather, are simply manifestations of the Supreme Being. In this we mean that both YHWH and Yeshua are manifestations of this Supreme Being. The manifestation of the Son (which we know by the name of Yeshua) is a very complex manifestation. By this we mean that within this one human body were multiple manifestations of the Supreme Being, namely, the Father incarnate, the seven manifold Spirit of YHWH, the Blood, and the Voice, in particular. There were other manifestations included in the body of Mashiach Yeshua, but this should be sufficient for you to see the very complex nature of Mashiach.

Here is one more example from Scripture on the usage of the word “echad.”






Please note that YHWH states the menorah is “one” piece, made from a single piece of gold, that is, it is echad. However, there are seven branches and seven lamps upon those branches. This piece of furniture in the holy place represents the seven manifest Spirits of YHWH.

Last, because you may have stopped reading by now.

The oneness of echad is not undermined by plurality; indeed, it employs plurality as the ingredients of unity. Thus, even within the most orthodox Jewish teachings the word echad carries the idea of plurality in unity. I personally feel that by this orthodox Jewish definition of echad, we are not contradicting Scripture with the teachings of a Trinity as understood in our classical orthodox theology. If Deuteronomy were to destroy the doctrine of the Trinity it would have had to use the word
yachid not echad.

I will forever believe that God/Godhead is comprised of The Father/YHWH, The Son/ Jesus the Christ/ and The Holy Spirit.

3 individuals under the umbrella of God/Godhead.

would not a God who is not triune have required the usage of Yachid?

It is that simple!!!
We are supposed to believe that the Creator, the Word that was God in the Beginning, does not know the difference between Echad and Yachid when declaring the Shema???

 

[MTMattie]

The word "Ehyeh" is how God revealed His name to Moses. Names are not living creatures. Names are titles and they are not living things. The devil got you to believe this nonsense without you even thinking it through.

@Peterlag

raspberries to you...
I have a name or two for you...... someday I might just tell you.

 

[Peterlag]

Peterlag is a name
Peterlag "is not a living creature"

That is correct. Peterlag is not a living creature. You cannot say I'm...

1.) Human
2.) Peterlag

And therefore there's 2 of me.

 

[MTMattie]

Peterlag is a name
Peterlag "is not a living creature"

I dont know.... Me thinks I just might see bat wings in the background of his avatar....

​

 

[DavidTree]

That is correct. Peterlag is not a living creature. You cannot say I'm...

1.) Human
2.) Peterlag

And therefore there's 2 of me.

Actually, there is THREE parts of you

1.) Body = a man
2.) Soul = identifies as Peterlag
3.) Spirit = made in the image of God

1 Thess 5:23 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

Actually, there is THREE parts of you

1.) Body = a man
2.) Soul = identifies as Peterlag
3.) Spirit = made in the image of God

1 Thess 5:23 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What are the 3 parts of God? Parts. Not names.

 

[DavidTree]

What are the 3 parts of God? Parts. Not names.

The angels know the answer.

Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings.
Day and night they never stop saying:
“’Holy, Holy, Holy
Lord God Almighty,’
who was, and is, and is to come.”

 

[JLB]

1 Timothy 3:16
“he.” There are some Greek manuscripts that read, “God appeared in the flesh.” This reading of some Greek manuscripts has passed into some English versions, and the King James Version is one of them. Trinitarian scholars admit, however, that these Greek texts were altered by scribes in favor of the Trinitarian position. The reading of the earliest and best manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.” Almost all the modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent.

Word salad with no scripture.

 

[JLB]

The word "Father" is a name. So is "God the Father." Names are not living creatures. Names are titles and they are not living things. The devil got you to believe this nonsense without you even thinking it through.

More opinion with no scripture.

 

[Peterlag]

More opinion with no scripture.

Do we need Scripture to define what a name is? This should have been taught in the second grade.

The only thing trinitarians have is their own imagination, human reasoning, and picking one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here and a clue there and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human reasoning process, speculations and assumptions. Nothing more. It's not the true and living God of the Bible, the God of Israel, the God of the Apostles, or the God of Jesus. The trinity is an IDOL made by man and that is the reason why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The trinitarian God is a philosophical construct of their own minds that they literally built up like a Lego.

 

[Peterlag]

Word salad with no scripture.

The Scripture is there. It's called 1 Timothy 3:16

 

[Peterlag]

The angels know the answer.

Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings.
Day and night they never stop saying:
“’Holy, Holy, Holy
Lord God Almighty,’
who was, and is, and is to come.”

So you can't answer the question either.

 

[101G]

We simply do not agree and from that point I guess neither one of us will answer the others
questions satisfactorily.

no. 101G have answered you by scripture,

ECHAD UNIFIED ONE
Gen 2:24 Two become one
Man plus Woman

Deut 6:4 God is one
Father+Son+Spirit

As I understand ECHAD , ECHAD actually means a compound unity.

How you understand or 101G understand the term "ECHAD" .... it's how God KNOW ECHAD and 101G has shown you by the scriptures. Just answer 101G questions in post https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/your-views-on-the-trinity.1805/post-170370 and the scriptures will determine the answer to "ECHAD". now... can you answer 101G question?

when you said, "As I understand ECHAD , ECHAD actually means a compound unity."

the term "Compound" means, "a thing that is composed of two or more separate elements; a mixture. so if God is a MIXTURE of two or more and is ONE, just answer the question in post https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/your-views-on-the-trinity.1805/post-170370

looking to hear your answer.

101G

 

[Peterlag]

More opinion with no scripture.

I can give Scripture. How about these...

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.